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myostatin gene

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  • 02-09-2016 11:48pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭


    What is the difference between single carrier and double carrier and replication etc. and how in the hell are more and more Angus bull presenting with it.........is it because of dodgy breeding?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    mikeoh wrote: »
    What is the difference between single carrier and double carrier and replication etc. and how in the hell are more and more Angus bull presenting with it.........is it because of dodgy breeding?

    I had to look it up.
    The double muscle gene.

    Angus cattle are turning into Belgian Blue cattle.

    Learn something new everyday.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    pedigree 6 wrote: »
    I had to look it up.
    The double muscle gene.

    Angus cattle are turning into Belgian Blue cattle.

    Learn something new everyday.

    I got that wrong if they are lacking the myostatin gene the animal will be double muscled.
    Good that they are testing for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭MickeyShtyles


    pedigree 6 wrote: »
    I had to look it up.
    The double muscle gene.

    Angus cattle are turning into Belgian Blue cattle.

    Learn something new everyday.

    Belgia Blue and Piedmontese are the two I know for it. Very tasty meat off the Piedmontese.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,975 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    I've a feeling there's a strain of double-muscled Charolais cattle too.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭Genghis Cant


    greysides wrote: »
    I've a feeling there's a strain of double-muscled Charolais cattle too.

    Culard Charolais by any chance?


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,975 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    Sounds right.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,709 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    I guess it's similar to the Polled genes. You could selective breed to either, keep or get rid of the condition.
    Read before that strightly speaking it's not a double muscle as such. More like the normal muscles just grow more.

    'When I was a boy we were serfs, slave minded. Anyone who came along and lifted us out of that belittling, I looked on them as Gods.' - Dan Breen



  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭mikeoh


    pedigree 6 wrote:
    Learn something new everyday.


    But surely it shouldn't be in native breeds....just talking from a Angus point of view I see new bulls like gear fury and westellen diageo are carrying it as for that bull Peter pershore he no more looks like an Angus . I say the neighbour's lim bull must have slipped in somewhere in the back breeding


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    Culard Charolais by any chance?

    The new title looks well on ya


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    mikeoh wrote: »
    But surely it shouldn't be in native breeds....just talking from a Angus point of view I see new bulls like gear fury and westellen diageo are carrying it as for that bull Peter pershore he no more looks like an Angus . I say the neighbour's lim bull must have slipped in somewhere in the back breeding

    It could occur naturally. The double muscling isn't caused by a "new" myostatin gene but more that the myostatin gene being faulty.

    The myostatin gene makes myostatin protein which controls muscle growth to keep it "normal". If something happens to the myostatin gene so it's not working right you can get double muscling. If the myostatin gene in the angus changes for some reason you could get double muscle angus.

    Now all that has to happen is for breeders to breed the double muscled animals and the dodgy gene gets passed on.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,631 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    mikeoh wrote: »
    But surely it shouldn't be in native breeds....just talking from a Angus point of view I see new bulls like gear fury and westellen diageo are carrying it as for that bull Peter pershore he no more looks like an Angus . I say the neighbour's lim bull must have slipped in somewhere in the back breeding

    AFAIK belgian blues started off from shorthorn cattle that lacked the gene, recessive might be the technical word. By in-breeding or crossing only animals with the double muscle within the shorthorn breed they eventually ended up with the belgian blue breed. It happened after WW2 when food was still scarce.

    It's possible a bit of out crossing happened in Canada with angus cattle before they closed the herd book, now 10 or 12 generations on of pedigree breeding the recessive (?) gene has managed to sneak it's way in to pedigree angus cattle here. Or maybe it was always there.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    blue5000 wrote: »
    AFAIK belgian blues started off from shorthorn cattle that lacked the gene, recessive might be the technical word. By in-breeding or crossing only animals with the double muscle within the shorthorn breed they eventually ended up with the belgian blue breed. It happened after WW2 when food was still scarce.

    It's possible a bit of out crossing happened in Canada with angus cattle before they closed the herd book, now 10 or 12 generations on of pedigree breeding the recessive (?) gene has managed to sneak it's way in to pedigree angus cattle here. Or maybe it was always there.

    Recessive would be the correct term where 2 copies of the gene are needed for a trait to show.

    The myostatin gene was always there and working. It's possible the defective gene was introduced as you suggest in Canada or its possible the gene mutated alone the line.

    Gene sequencing might be able to show which if anyone was so inclined to discover the origin.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    Holstein cattle would have a myostatin gene. All (normal ) cattle have a myostatin gene. Its as ye say a defective (not working) myostatin gene that causes double muscling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭wiggy123


    Myostatin gene from my understanding is ok a trait, the problem is-if it becomes the double mystatin gene--as its the BB then! which not good for angus pb breeding... limousine had the myostatin gene, but its a ok gene... as for that pershore bull-no harm never was a true angus.. see his pics--more a black lim/bue cross.. along irish folk never used him...


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,227 ✭✭✭tanko


    From a commercial point of view, double muscled Angus Bulls sound like a great idea. Easy finished cattle with big ar$es, what more could you want.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    tanko wrote: »
    From a commercial point of view, double muscled Angus Bulls sound like a great idea. Easy finished cattle with big ar$es, what more could you want.

    A parthenaise.:p


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,678 ✭✭✭Bellview


    tanko wrote: »
    From a commercial point of view, double muscled Angus Bulls sound like a great idea. Easy finished cattle with big ar$es, what more could you want.

    OK in suckler but not for dairy.. Majority of Angus are for dairy.. Also not sure what the taste of beef would be like..


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,678 ✭✭✭Bellview


    wiggy123 wrote: »
    Myostatin gene from my understanding is ok a trait, the problem is-if it becomes the double mystatin gene--as its the BB then! which not good for angus pb breeding... limousine had the myostatin gene, but its a ok gene... as for that pershore bull-no harm never was a true angus.. see his pics--more a black lim/bue cross.. along irish folk never used him...

    Ironically when that bull died there were tears in Scotland and some in Ireland... Some of his sins are in ai so still plenty damage to be done...even a few horns to grow


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,890 ✭✭✭Bullocks


    tanko wrote: »
    From a commercial point of view, double muscled Angus Bulls sound like a great idea. Easy finished cattle with big ar$es, what more could you want.
    I was thinking the same . We have had a few AA out BB cows and they were stylish enough weanlings


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭ganmo


    http://www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/179208/fgene-07-00014-HTML/image_m/fgene-07-00014-t001.jpg


    7 different mutations of the myostatin gene and their associated breeds


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭Hard Knocks


    If you cross a cow with 2 F genes and a bull with 2 Q genes. Will the calf have 1 F and 1 Q (1 gene from both Cow and bull) or is it 25% double F, 25% double Q and 50% 1 F 1 Q?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,180 ✭✭✭✭Base price




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,709 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    With polled cattle, the polled gene is dominant, but I've never heard of dominance mentioned with the Myostatin gene. The attached document below does say that the Q variant is 'partially dominant'. My guess is they don't know enough about dominance yet.

    So to answer your question, it's a roll of the dice. As you said, 25% chance of double F and 25% double Q, 50% chance F/Q.


    Limousin-Fact-Sheet-3-Myostatin-FINAL.pdf

    'When I was a boy we were serfs, slave minded. Anyone who came along and lifted us out of that belittling, I looked on them as Gods.' - Dan Breen



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    they get one from each parent your not going to get a double nt821 off a friesian cow for example



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭Hard Knocks


    Thanks, I’m trying to understand it a bit more so to cross the right bulls on our cows



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,227 ✭✭✭tanko


    Not many bulls have two Q genes afaik, are you looking at a bull that has two?

    I see Claddagh McCabe has two Q genes which is very unusual for a Lim. Madison and Joskins have one Q and one F.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    doesnt change much therell be good and bad bulls with all types of myostatin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭Hard Knocks


    Just used 2 F’s and 2 Q’s for an example, thought it might be simpler

    Have myostatin tested some of the cows, 2 F’s, 1F, F+Q, 1Q, 1N are some of the results, I just wanted to understand if 1 gene came from the dam & 1 from the sire, or is it a possibility of different options based upon the combination. That way I can avoid certain bulls for certain cows. I’d like to avoid 2Q’s or 2N’s. I’d No Calving issues with 2 F’s



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    It's always one from each parent. It's 50:50 which one is passed on

    The 2 Fs will definitely pass on an F as they don't have anything else to pass on so best to avoid any bull with an F on them unless you like Russian Roulette as it'd be a 50% chance of a bull with 1 F passing it on.

    Below shows how it would work if you had both parents with mixed genes.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    ya ur right one comes from dam and one from sire best bulls to use on cows with a q or n are double f loki, eby etc. doesnt mean u cant use q/f but just more risk plenty of bulls with q gene used on blue cows without much hassle



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