Letting Agent Fees

danger_mouse_tm

Hi All,

I have noticed that there has been no deposit to my account this month from the agent that is managing our rental property. The current tenant has just signed a new one year lease. Is it typical for letting agent to charge the one months rent EVERY year or is it just at the beginning of a new tenancy.

And while I'm at it... Do I need to contact the PRTB and re register (and pay) the tenancy renewal or should the letting agent be looking after that on my behalf?

Thanks!

Michael D Not Higgins

There's no need to pay the RTB fee again until your tenant has been there for 4 years, then they enter a further Part 4 tenancy which the RTB do need to have re-registered. On the agent's side, they will try to get a tenant to sign a lease every year and charge you for the pleasure.

danger_mouse_tm

danger_mouse_tm wrote: »

........ Is it typical for letting agent to charge the one months rent EVERY year

Yes. Although if they are charging a full months rent they are quite expensive.

danger_mouse_tm wrote: »

......And while I'm at it... Do I need to contact the PRTB and re register (and pay) the tenancy renewal or should the letting agent be looking after that on my behalf?

..........

If that was done previously it's valid for 4 years.

Generally letting agents are responsible to ensure tenant fills in their part of form and than letting agent forwards that to landlord in good time to enable landlord register the tenancy on time avoiding the late fee.

yqtwqxqm

danger_mouse_tm wrote: »

Hi All,

I have noticed that there has been no deposit to my account this month from the agent that is managing our rental property. The current tenant has just signed a new one year lease. Is it typical for letting agent to charge the one months rent EVERY year or is it just at the beginning of a new tenancy.

And while I'm at it... Do I need to contact the PRTB and re register (and pay) the tenancy renewal or should the letting agent be looking after that on my behalf?

Thanks!

I have been in contact with a lot of letting agents over the last while as I look after some properties for relatives and have decided to charge them for it to make them consider just going to an agent

Here are the rough average prices I got quoted for letting and managing.

Some slightly higher, some slightly lower, but here is the average and I personally would not pay any more than this.


Letting only
€500 + Vat @23% one off.

Letting and Property Management - Ongoing (The one I would go for)
€40 per month + VAT @23%
Or a lot of them go by percentage. The average is 6% + Vat @23%
So you pay the €500 one off when they get a tenant and then the ongoing €40 per month.


Renewal of the Lease where a current tenant renews their lease
€70 + Vat @ 23%.

They all will include advertising in those fees as they have a company account with DAFT etc. And you can instruct them all to clear any costs of repairs etc with you first before going ahead.

Now there are some chancers who ask for a months rent + vat for letting only.
And some try to extract a months rent every year from you for renewing leases.
Ignore those ones. The are are taking the P.

I think the average prices I have stated above are fair.
And ALL of the agents I spoke to stated their figure up front and then were open to negotiation. Its easy work for them so they shouldnt be charging an arm and a leg.

Good luck.

campingcarist

Letting only
€500 + Vat @23% one off.

Letting and Property Management - Ongoing (The one I would go for)
€40 per month + VAT @23%

The Letting a Property management - Ongoing therefore comes out cheaper than Letting only.

Michael D Not Higgins

campingcarist wrote: »

The Letting a Property management - Ongoing therefore comes out cheaper than Letting only.

But if the tenants stay there for two years and don't sign a lease the second year then the agent only gets 500, versus 960 for ongoing management.

yqtwqxqm

campingcarist wrote: »

The Letting a Property management - Ongoing therefore comes out cheaper than Letting only.

Ongoing is on top of letting.
So you would have to pay the letting up front and then you are on the ongoing.

danger_mouse_tm

I will put a call in because they are already getting 25 a month. I do think that 750 for z renewal is a bit steep.

yqtwqxqm

danger_mouse_tm wrote: »

I will put a call in because they are already getting 25 a month. I do think that 750 for z renewal is a bit steep.

Id say the €25 a month is great. Assuming they are managing the property and not just collecting rent and doing nothing else.
The €750 per renewal however, is daylight robbery.
They'll give you a load of rubbish about why you need it, but you dont. You are already in a part 4. A lease gives you nothing really.

Just tell them you dont want a new lease end of story. And save yourself €750.

danger_mouse_tm

All they are doing is collecting rent and paying it into my account. I pay a management company 1200 a year to look after the apartment block.

They just had the existing tenant sign s new lease last week.

Michael D Not Higgins

danger_mouse_tm wrote: »

I will put a call in because they are already getting 25 a month. I do think that 750 for z renewal is a bit steep.

You'll find they have it in their terms that they get the tenant to sign a new lease every year and charge a month's rent for this. You would have agreed to this when you signed up with them.

As for the ongoing 25/month, I assume they're the point of contact for the tenants and they organise emergency repair work, etc.? This is what you're paying the recurring fee for, so that you don't get a call at 2 in the morning about a burst pipe or the likes.

yqtwqxqm

danger_mouse_tm wrote: »

All they are doing is collecting rent and paying it into my account. I pay a management company 1200 a year to look after the apartment block.

They just had the existing tenant sign s new lease last week.

You are wasting your money.
Go with an agent with full management for about €40 a month.
They should be looking after all tenant calls and only bothering you when fro example a repair cost is over €200.
They will organize the repair and billing etc and just deduct the cost from the rent.
Make sure to specify that they must run all costs over €100 or €200 by you before proceeding though.

L1011

They will try justify the new lease as the reason for the charge. This is why agents often put insane pressure on tenants to sign new leases - a quick search here will find numerous such cases including one agency that insisted point blank that Part 4 rights didn't exist and the tenant had made them up; because they were going to lose a huge fee for not having a new lease.

danger_mouse_tm

They sent me an invoice today (dated 8/7 but created in excel yesterday) explaing that the annual fee is the reason for them holding the money. So, can I get any of the money back or should I just stick with them for the year now (lesson learned). I did try to contact them by phone over the last few days but there was no answer (admittedly it was during lunch) so they are obviously not making themselves available in the event of a burst pipe etc.

danger_mouse_tm

...they also charge 23% vat. Is it not the lower rate for a service?

Dansam

Our letting agent is shutting down due to health issues. We have been paying him 10 per cent per month to manage 2 houses. As he is shutting down he deducted 1 months rent per house as a finders fee for the tenants who will remain in place. In his closing statement it also shows that he deducts 30 euro penalty out of their deposit when the rent is late. The deposit on both houses is now gone. Is this normal procedure

Graham

Dansam wrote: »

Our letting agent is shutting down due to health issues. We have been paying him 10 per cent per month to manage 2 houses. As he is shutting down he deducted 1 months rent per house as a finders fee for the tenants who will remain in place. In his closing statement it also shows that he deducts 30 euro penalty out of their deposit when the rent is late. The deposit on both houses is now gone. Is this normal procedure

What does your contract say?

Michael D Not Higgins

Dansam wrote: »

Our letting agent is shutting down due to health issues. We have been paying him 10 per cent per month to manage 2 houses. As he is shutting down he deducted 1 months rent per house as a finders fee for the tenants who will remain in place. In his closing statement it also shows that he deducts 30 euro penalty out of their deposit when the rent is late. The deposit on both houses is now gone. Is this normal procedure

In other words he charged you for the penalty, because if you withhold that deposit for that reason then the RTB case will be a short one in favour of the tenants.

Sounds like a complete crock to be honest, the one month finders fee is usually applied at the start of a tenancy, not at a time when he decides to get out of the business. Have you checked the contract you signed with him?

foggy_lad

Dansam wrote: »

Our letting agent is shutting down due to health issues. We have been paying him 10 per cent per month to manage 2 houses. As he is shutting down he deducted 1 months rent per house as a finders fee for the tenants who will remain in place. In his closing statement it also shows that he deducts 30 euro penalty out of their deposit when the rent is late. The deposit on both houses is now gone. Is this normal procedure

Afaik late payment fees are not something that can legally be deducted from a tenants deposit once the rent is paid in full later. It sounds like the "agent" has been taking the deposits for himself in dribs and drabs which will leave you liable for repaying the tenants when they complain to the RTB, also as stated the finders fee is something that would normally be charged at the start of an arrangement with an agent.

L1011

A deposit would take quite some time to go in 30 quid dips. Agent sounds like they're desperately trying to cover for a complete lack of cash.

Michael D Not Higgins

L1011 wrote: »

A deposit would take quite some time to go in 30 quid dips. Agent sounds like they're desperately trying to cover for a complete lack of cash.

Or a self granted golden handshake.

gizmo81

Does anyone have any idea if a letting agent charges landlords to attend the RTB adjudication on their behalf? And what approximate cost this would be?

davindub

danger_mouse_tm wrote: »

...they also charge 23% vat. Is it not the lower rate for a service?

Specified services only.

4ensic15

gizmo81 wrote: »

Does anyone have any idea if a letting agent charges landlords to attend the RTB adjudication on their behalf? And what approximate cost this would be?

Letting agents go to RTB hearings both as witnesses and advocates. Chargesy with the amount of time and work involved. Most would want a few hundred euro.

jamesthepeach

You can fire your agent if you aren't happy.
I'm thinking of firing mine. But I may never let again so I'll have to wait and see.

My brother fired his and they tried to charge him for keeping the tenant. He told them to get stuffed that he had already paid that to them in month one and they could ask the tenant to leave of they wanted and he would get a new one. They backed off.

He got a new agent to manage the property and they charge the finders fee and the monthly management charge to the tenant now on top of the rent. (Because of the new rent controls). I think they are 40 pm plus vat, but he doesn't even see that. The tenant has to pay that to them with the rent. The tenant also had to pay €500 to the agent to find the property for them.

If he decides to do airbnb i future too, they will also manage that for him, for a fee. Can't remember what the fee he said was.

antoinolachtnai

A landlord or agent can't charge the finders' fee to the tenants. A decent agent should know this (section 90 of Property Services Act I think). The tenant will be able o recover this from you at the end of the lease.

gizmo81

90.— (1) Subject to subsection (2), any provision (whether express or implied) in an agreement in respect of the sale or letting of land whereby the purchaser or tenant, as the case may be, is required to pay or otherwise bear the cost of the licensee’s fees or expenses in respect of the sale or letting, as the case may be, shall be void, and any moneys paid pursuant to such a provision shall be recoverable as a simple contract debt in a court of competent jurisdiction.

(2) Nothing in subsection (1) shall affect the liability of a person to pay fees or expenses to a licensee in respect of the acquisition of any land where the licensee has been retained by the person to acquire such land and does not also act, in respect of such acquisition, on behalf of the person from whom the land is acquired.


http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2011/act/40/section/90/enacted/en/html

jamesthepeach wrote: »

You can fire your agent if you aren't happy.
I'm thinking of firing mine. But I may never let again so I'll have to wait and see.

My brother fired his and they tried to charge him for keeping the tenant. He told them to get stuffed that he had already paid that to them in month one and they could ask the tenant to leave of they wanted and he would get a new one. They backed off.

He got a new agent to manage the property and they charge the finders fee and the monthly management charge to the tenant now on top of the rent. (Because of the new rent controls). I think they are 40 pm plus vat, but he doesn't even see that. The tenant has to pay that to them with the rent. The tenant also had to pay €500 to the agent to find the property for them.

If he decides to do airbnb i future too, they will also manage that for him, for a fee. Can't remember what the fee he said was.

jamesthepeach

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

A landlord or agent can't charge the finders' fee to the tenants. A decent agent should know this (section 90 of Property Services Act I think). The tenant will be able o recover this from you at the end of the lease.

It can be done.
It's not called a finder's fee as far as I know.
Maybe membership or something like that, I can't remember tbh, but it's being done.

And i think the finder company is different to the management company too. The tenant signs up with the finder who do the vetting and present this to various landlords. I'm only guessing though on that. Maybe the charges are Ben called something totally different.
I must find out more when i see him again. I didn't go into it in great detail as I don't need it yet myself.

Askthe EA

davindub wrote: »

Specified services only.

Yup professional services are 23% and non professional (maintenance works eg) are at 13.5%

paudgenator

Thanks for the useful info in this thread.

Been quoted 550 +vat to let, and 50 + vat per month management fee ....is this the normal rate now in Dublin?

Any recommendations from experience?...new to this so all feedback welcome.

Baby01032012

paudgenator wrote: »

Thanks for the useful info in this thread.

Been quoted 550 +vat to let, and 50 + vat per month management fee ....is this the normal rate now in Dublin?

Any recommendations from experience?...new to this so all feedback welcome.

Pretty much

Fee to let is normally a % normally 5% but I got for 4.25% on a place I'm about to let. I wouldn't bother with management.

paudgenator

Baby01032012 wrote: »

paudgenator wrote: »

Thanks for the useful info in this thread.

Been quoted 550 +vat to let, and 50 + vat per month management fee ....is this the normal rate now in Dublin?

Any recommendations from experience?...new to this so all feedback welcome.

Pretty much

Fee to let is normally a % normally 5% but I got for 4.25% on a place I'm about to let. I wouldn't bother with management.

Thanks..good to know. I will be overseas a lot...can't call on family so need management.

dev_ire

Do the letting agency take % off of the total rent, lets say 1800 a month or do they take it off of the rent after tax (40% rate)?

The_Conductor

dev_ire wrote: »

Do the letting agency take % off of the total rent, lets say 1800 a month or do they take it off of the rent after tax (40% rate)?

Its normally deducted as a set percentage (typically 10%) from the gross rental income (and the balance lodged to the landlord's account). The landlord obviously has to make the relevant tax return and pay any tax or other bills that come due.

dev_ire

So if 1000 was gross net would be 600 so they take 10% of 600 or 1000?

Thanks.

Samuel T. Cogley

dev_ire wrote: »

So if 1000 was gross net would be 600 so they take 10% of 600 or 1000?

Thanks.

10% of 1000

They don't do the tax for you, you'll also need an accountant mine was €365 last year.

dev_ire

Thanks.

pasquale83

Folks, I got a quote from two different agencies.

- 5% + VAT letting (on a 12 month basis) + 8% + VAT management (per month), with a current offer to lower letting fee to 2% + VAT
- 7% + VAT letting (on a 12 month basis) or 6% + 6% + VAT if I go for the letting+management option

Are these reasonable fees? I don't think so to be honest, especially the management one.

Can people please PM me with the name of the agent with lower fees?

Thank you in advance!

pasquale83

paudgenator wrote: »

Thanks for the useful info in this thread.

Been quoted 550 +vat to let, and 50 + vat per month management fee ....is this the normal rate now in Dublin?

Any recommendations from experience?...new to this so all feedback welcome.

hi, did they quote absolute figures or as percentage of rent? I think they're pretty good, could you PM me the agency contacts please?

Baby01032012

Can I ask you why you need to use a letting agent. I used 2 within the last year and would never use one again. I’ve now repeat both places myself with far better tenants than any letting agent would put in there.

For one apartment no references were checked and it has taken me nearly a year to get them out and 10k losses and damages and I’m suing them for breach of contract.

The other apartment the tenants caused so much hassle and left after 6 months after falling out and getting me involved in their personal dispute.

Seriously think about doing it yourself. €46 to advertise on daft. Get all refs in advance meet a few and go with your gut.

Letting agents don’t care who goes in there. Just getting them in and take the fee.

pasquale83

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Can I ask you why you need to use a letting agent. I used 2 within the last year and would never use one again. I’ve now repeat both places myself with far better tenants than any letting agent would put in there.

For one apartment no references were checked and it has taken me nearly a year to get them out and 10k losses and damages and I’m suing them for breach of contract.

The other apartment the tenants caused so much hassle and left after 6 months after falling out and getting me involved in their personal dispute.

Seriously think about doing it yourself. €46 to advertise on daft. Get all refs in advance meet a few and go with your gut.

Letting agents don’t care who goes in there. Just getting them in and take the fee.

sure. I have the same feeling and used to be landlord abroad myself as well for 15 years. so I know how to deal with tenants. problem is that I relocate out of the country and need someone to physically replace myself. hope to find a good estate agent, there should be one at least out there!

Whispered

Interesting idea to let yourself - do you or I have the same access to info as an agent does when doing background checks? What checks should a letting agent be doing? Does the use of an agent give any more security?

I'm about to let my house, perfectly happy to manage it myself but am strongly considering using an agent to set the house up for rental. We have had offers already on the house, and letting won't be an issue. I'm worried about setting up contracts, charging correct rent etc.

However the fact we will have to hire an accountant too, we could do without the finders fee. Is there anything an agent does that I couldn't do with some further research?

Samuel T. Cogley

Whispered wrote: »

Interesting idea to let yourself - do you or I have the same access to info as an agent does when doing background checks? What checks should a letting agent be doing? Does the use of an agent give any more security?

I'm about to let my house, perfectly happy to manage it myself but am strongly considering using an agent to set the house up for rental. We have had offers already on the house, and letting won't be an issue. I'm worried about setting up contracts, charging correct rent etc.

However the fact we will have to hire an accountant too, we could do without the finders fee. Is there anything an agent does that I couldn't do with some further research?

The agent is likely to be less careful then you not more, although they will be more experienced. I'm very much a believer in checking the paperwork thoroughly but also going with my gut.

Get an employee and LL reference and cross check it with bank statements. As of today credit reports are available to the individual so I'd be asking for that too personally. Note this information can only be asked for once your reference checking your preferred candidate; best to just have sight of it rather than keeping any of it.

Whispered

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

The agent is likely to be less careful then you not more, although they will be more experienced. I'm very much a believer in checking the paperwork thoroughly but also going with my gut.

Get an employee and LL reference and cross check it with bank statements. As of today credit reports are available to the individual so I'd be asking for that too personally. Note this information can only be asked for once your reference checking your preferred candidate; best to just have sight of it rather than keeping any of it.

Thank you, that makes sense.

Okay so to be clear, once we have our preferred candidate, we should ask for bank statements, employer and LL references. Follow up on employer and LL ref with a phone call? And also request their credit report?

Are proper rental contracts available online to print? I have looked and they seem fine to me, but then I don't know what I'm looking at do I!

I know that all other info such as standards required for house, notice terms etc are readily available online.

Also, we will have a new rent only account, would the statements from that account count as a receipt for the tenant?

Samuel T. Cogley

Whispered wrote: »

Thank you, that makes sense.

Okay so to be clear, once we have our preferred candidate, we should ask for bank statements, employer and LL references. Follow up on employer and LL ref with a phone call? And also request their credit report?

Are proper rental contracts available online to print? I have looked and they seem fine to me, but then I don't know what I'm looking at do I!

I know that all other info such as standards required for house, notice terms etc are readily available online.

Also, we will have a new rent only account, would the statements from that account count as a receipt for the tenant?

So bank statements and credit reports are totally optional, you'll see the feed back on asking for that in a second on another thread :pac: (So are references tbh) I'd just use everything as a cross check. Credit reports only went live today so you might skip that.

Just get a standard lease that complies with the Part IV conditions. DO NOT enter into fixed term leases with no break clause, all you're doing is giving the tenants more rights. The Part IV system pretty much covers you and the tenant, a verbal agreement is fine.

I'd say statements or an email would be fine as a receipt.

Samuel T. Cogley

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/types_of_tenancy.html

Whispered

Thank you very much, I appreciate it!

Samuel T. Cogley

People do tend to prefer agents in my experience and will be more willing to hand over sensitive information to them. Realistically though they don't do a huge amount for LL's local to their property (IMHO). Don't forget though that the agent's fee will be somewhat deferred against tax, as will the accountant. Get an accountant that will also review your entire tax situation for the year, they always find something and the fee is offset against tax on the property - although given they're also doing your personal tax perhaps it shouldn't. Mine was fine with it.

Whispered

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

People do tend to prefer agents in my experience and will be more willing to hand over sensitive information to them. Realistically though they don't do a huge amount for LL's local to their property (IMHO). Don't forget though that the agent's fee will be somewhat deferred against tax, as will the accountant. Get an accountant that will also review your entire tax situation for the year, they always find something and the fee is offset against tax on the property - although given they're also doing your personal tax perhaps it shouldn't. Mine was fine with it.

Yes finding an accountant has been another learning curve for me. I've been speaking to someone about doing my tax returns for last year (first year and I am not confident enough to do it myself), dealing with the tax on the house and looking at our overall taxable income and how best to split our credits etc. So it would be a one stop shop really. And yes I hadn't considered that the letting agents fees could be offset a bit. The person I'm considering using has come very highly recommended. Might be the best way to go for our first time renting the house out!