How to treat lights that don't recognize bikes?

topcat77

Just wonder about peoples attitude to this.

I have always stopped at red lights but have started jumping a set of lights on my route to work which are only activated by a car (Road sensor). I only do so when no cars are waiting with me and it's safe to proceed through the lights. Should i recognize a set of lights that doesn't recognize me.

This shouldn't be an issue shortly with the school traffic starting up again it's just something that has been bugging me.

Skrynesaver

I've a similar policy, if I've waited through a full cycle of changes at a junction I'll "use my discretion" at that junction thereafter.

ted1

Contact the council and three RSS let them know.

There's a set on my way home that have the road sensor that pick me up, but I need to do a bike stand for about ten seconds

timmy_mallet

I jump a few that I 'know' the sequence of, to get a head of the cars... God forbid the sequence should change

I have a tendency to go on a four way junction when all four ped. lights are on. I reckon a minor indiscretion that can be tolerated by all.

JayRoc

timmy_mallet wrote: »

I jump a few that I 'know' the sequence of, to get a head of the cars... God forbid the sequence should change

I have a tendency to go on a four way junction when all four ped. lights are on. I reckon a minor indiscretion that can be tolerated by all.

That is not what the OP is talking about at all.

Luxman

Topical, last night on my warm down after a spin I came to a set of lights in the village, The road sensor didn't detect me, a car pulled up behind and I moved forward slightly to allow the car move to the space where the sensor was, but it didn't move forward. So both of us were stuck there, I gestured for the driver to move but they didn't understand what I meant them to do. Missed two sequences.

Tabnabs

I can't legally leave my housing estate without dismounting and crossing via the pedestrian crossing, unless I strike it lucky and have a car arrive to "let me out". I tend to be practical about these matters.

cdaly_

If you ride up along the side of the sensor box it has the best chance of detecting you.

cdaly_

timmy_mallet wrote: »

I have a tendency to go on a four way junction when all four ped. lights are on. I reckon a minor indiscretion that can be tolerated by all.

Nope. Makes me (and probably other road users) lose any respect for you and encourages the asshole who blasted through the ped lights the other day nearly running over a child who had started crossing.


I have a tendency to wait until the light changes to green and then go...

07Lapierre

timmy_mallet wrote: »

I jump a few that I 'know' the sequence of, to get a head of the cars... God forbid the sequence should change

I have a tendency to go on a four way junction when all four ped. lights are on. I reckon a minor indiscretion that can be tolerated by all.

I see people do this all the time and I find it very annoying. Are you really in that much of a hurry that you cant wait for the light to go green?

magicbastarder

i find it's easy enough to get a head start on the cars if you know the sequence; up and clipped in and rolling slightly (without passing the lights) waiting for the green.

average_runner

topcat77 wrote: »

Just wonder about peoples attitude to this.

I have always stopped at red lights but have started jumping a set of lights on my route to work which are only activated by a car (Road sensor). I only do so when no cars are waiting with me and it's safe to proceed through the lights. Should i recognize a set of lights that doesn't recognize me.

This shouldn't be an issue shortly with the school traffic starting up again it's just something that has been bugging me.

Should a car go thru a red light if safe to go?

magicbastarder

i believe it's what's known as a 'stuck light' and the law allows you to drive through one if it's obviously stuck. will see if i can find a source.

07Lapierre

magicbastarder wrote: »

i find it's easy enough to get a head start on the cars if you know the sequence; up and clipped in and rolling slightly (without passing the lights) waiting for the green.

Yes or if you see the light s ahead are red (or just turned red), slow down and roll up to them...chances are they'll be turning green shortly.

Senecio

I tend to dismount and hit the pedestrian crossing button so to force the lights to cycle.

Eamonnator

magicbastarder wrote: »

i believe it's what's known as a 'stuck light' and the law allows you to drive through one if it's obviously stuck. will see if i can find a source.

I've seen sources for American law, that allows this. I don't remember seeing anything , that relates to Ireland.

magicbastarder

i found a few references which support the above, but nothing official, e.g.

http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/traffic_controls.html

magicbastarder

i found a few references which support the above, but nothing official, e.g.

http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/traffic_controls.html

Del2005

magicbastarder wrote: »

i believe it's what's known as a 'stuck light' and the law allows you to drive through one if it's obviously stuck. will see if i can find a source.

IIRC the only time you can legally pass a red light is when directed by the emergency services. If it's a sensor activated light and you don't trip it legally you have to wait till it turns green, or find an alternative route that doesn't have sensor lights if you are regularly getting stopped with a big lump of metal coming along to trigger the sensor.

I've read on some motorbike forums that really strong magnets attached to the sump can be used to trigger the sensor, no idea if it's an urban legend.

tomasrojo

Most of the lights with induction coils on my usual routes can be triggered by riding along the side of the visible remains of the cut-out in the road. For good measure, I cycle a bit along one side and then swing over to the other side and cycle along that side.

I presume you have to have a steel bike (or other ferrous material) for this to work.

If you're on a deserted road with good sight lines and the light will not change, just cross, making absolutely sure that no-one is coming. It might be illegal (it might not; I also read something about a stuck light being effectively the equivalent of a Stop sign), but since it's a deserted road, who is going to impose the law?

Danbo!

As others have said, riding along the joint will generally trigger the light in most cases (on my route anyway)

timmy_mallet wrote: »

I have a tendency to go on a four way junction when all four ped. lights are on. I reckon a minor indiscretion that can be tolerated by all.

I saw a hilarious crash between 2 cyclists heading perpendicular to each other in this situation. Both saw the pedestrian lights green, with no pedestrians, and went to mill through the junction, spotted each other last second and had the slowest most awkward fall ever, followed by them untangling their bikes from each other.

Dermot Illogical

I don't know how widely tolerated those indiscretions are, but I usually mutter "muppet" or similar under my breath when I see either.

timmy_mallet wrote: »

I jump a few that I 'know' the sequence of, to get a head of the cars... God forbid the sequence should change

I have a tendency to go on a four way junction when all four ped. lights are on. I reckon a minor indiscretion that can be tolerated by all.

timmy_mallet

Danbo! wrote: »

As others have said, riding along the joint will generally trigger the light in most cases (on my route anyway)

timmy_mallet wrote: »

I have a tendency to go on a four way junction when all four ped. lights are on. I reckon a minor indiscretion that can be tolerated by all.

I saw a hilarious crash between 2 cyclists heading perpendicular to each other in this situation. Both saw the pedestrian lights green, with no pedestrians, and went to mill through the junction, spotted each other last second and had the slowest most awkward fall ever, followed by them untangling their bikes from each other.

Heh!

timmy_mallet

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

I don't know how widely tolerated those indiscretions are, but I usually mutter "muppet" or similar under my breath when I see either.

timmy_mallet wrote: »

I jump a few that I 'know' the sequence of, to get a head of the cars... God forbid the sequence should change

I have a tendency to go on a four way junction when all four ped. lights are on. I reckon a minor indiscretion that can be tolerated by all.

Now Dermo', I wouldn't be lashing through them, right of way to the pedestrians an' all tha'... the junction i do it at requires me to turn right 100m after it, and it's purely to get ahead of the two lanes of cars racing each other to get into one lane, I don't fancy messing with them to try get across the road... Easier for me, easier for the drivers, no effect for the pedestrians.

(Genuine q: Would it be considered breaking the law if i hopped up on the path just before it and cycled across the crossing?)

rtmie

As others have said, riding along the joint will generally trigger the light in most cases (on my route anyway)

Have often wondered about this with sensor controlled lights, never sure what to look for to be sure they are sensor controlled and then how to trigger the sensor.
[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Not sure what type of "joint" I should be looking for (and no - I also don't know what a tracker mortgage is ) [/font]

Dermot Illogical

Look for 2 rectangular shaped cuts side by side just before the stop line, sealed with black stuff.

rtmie wrote: »

Have often wondered about this with sensor controlled lights, never sure what to look for to be sure they are sensor controlled and then how to trigger the sensor.
[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Not sure what type of "joint" I should be looking for (and no - I also don't know what a tracker mortgage is ) [/font]

tomasrojo

It's a little revelation when you first notice them. Then you realise they're everywhere.

Dermot Illogical

I'm not saying I'm right to be muttering...it's just what I do. On account of me being a grumpy fecker.

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Now Dermo', I wouldn't be lashing through them, right of way to the pedestrians an' all tha'... the junction i do it at requires me to turn right 100m after it, and it's purely to get ahead of the two lanes of cars racing each other to get into one lane, I don't fancy messing with them to try get across the road... Easier for me, easier for the drivers, no effect for the pedestrians.

traprunner

I pass a couple of sets of lights on my commute that use the camera to detect traffic along the luas line. However, when the sun is at a certain angle it will not pick up a cyclist. The red led on the camera light up when it detects something and the lights usually change about 5-10 seconds after. If the red led doesn't come on I wait until the coast is clear and go.

cjt156

There's a couple on my regular training route. I find that the lights change straight away if I stop with the bottom bracket right over the corner of the induction loop. Aluminium frame, if that matters.

mjsc1970

What about at a 4 way green man crossing, if ye hopped off the bike and walked it thru the junction to the other side, minding peds as ye go. Acceptable ?

tomasrojo

mjsc1970 wrote: »

What about at a 4 way green man crossing, if ye hopped off the bike and walked it thru the junction to the other side, minding peds as ye go. Acceptable ?

Seems completely legal, if you're walking the bike. Unless you go diagonally.

ED E

Lights in the bus lane on Stephens green & Leeson heading to Earlsfort Terrace are misconfigured like this, contacted DCC traffic but nothing was done. If no peds or busses are about its awful dodgy.

2RockMountain

ED E wrote: »

Lights in the bus lane on Stephens green & Leeson heading to Earlsfort Terrace are misconfigured like this, contacted DCC traffic but nothing was done. If no peds or busses are about its awful dodgy.

Maybe you should just email Owen Keegan?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100851210&postcount=221

Chuchote

tomasrojo wrote: »

Seems completely legal, if you're walking the bike. Unless you go diagonally.

Surely if all four sets of pedestrian lights are green, the lights act as a 'scramble', allowing diagonal crossing? It's what all pedestrians (and many cyclists, having dismounted and wheeling their bikes) do on one crossroads local to me, and it's what makes it annoying if people cycle straight through, or rather if they cycle through fast. If they amble along it's not particularly distressing.

dreamerb

ED E wrote: »

Lights in the bus lane on Stephens green & Leeson heading to Earlsfort Terrace are misconfigured like this, contacted DCC traffic but nothing was done. If no peds or busses are about its awful dodgy.

Yes, they're on my (new) regular route and they're a mess, in both directions. Out of bloodyminded curiousity I've waited a couple of times through the cycles to see if they go. On one occasion the sheer mass of cycles seemed to finally set it off, couple of others I've given up. I've also experimented with positioning to try to set off the induction loop (unhelpfully located off the marked cycle lane) but that's never worked. And while you're obediently waiting, going south from the Green, you also have buses going up your left hand side for the Leeson Street turn. The Dublin bus drivers seem careful, BE ones and some private coaches not so much.

Wishbone Ash

ED E wrote: »

Lights in the bus lane on Stephens green & Leeson heading to Earlsfort Terrace are misconfigured like this, contacted DCC traffic but nothing was done. If no peds or busses are about its awful dodgy.

Agree, that junction is messy. I've waited there through several sequences without getting a green and ended up walking through.

aFlabbyPanda

Wouldn't this only be a problem when there is no traffic anyway. I start work early so am usually cycling by 6.30am. On Sundays & during the summer mornings there are usually no cars around so waiting isn't practical. In these times I'll wait at the red light and if it the sequence either don't change or skips my light I'll go through it cautiously.

During the evenings or when traffic is busier I usually only have to wait for 30 seconds before a car comes along to trigger it anyway.

Wishbone Ash

TopSideControl wrote: »

Wouldn't this only be a problem when there is no traffic anyway..

Generally yes but in the case in my previous post in St Stephen's Green East, the lights can only be activated by buses as there is no motorised private vehicles permitted. While there may be no 'traffic' on St Stephen's Green East. that does not mean that there is no traffic on all other routes into that junction. I've been stopped there on many occasions on the bike while watching the pedestrian crossing go green several times over while my light stays red.

EDIT: Just to clarify - no private traffic permitted southbound on St S G E but private traffic is permitted northbound.

DanDublin1982

With contempt. :pac:

They are a bit of a bugbear though and I'm really not sure what purpose they actually serve as most of them do nothing but inform that a single car is at a junction. Feeds into the impatient motorist mindset I think.

tomasrojo

Chuchote wrote: »

Surely if all four sets of pedestrian lights are green, the lights act as a 'scramble', allowing diagonal crossing?

I might be wrong, but someone here recently said that you have to walk the two sides. Diagonal crossing isn't permitted.

Maybe it's not true. I couldn't say. I have assumed that it is true that it is not permitted.

Chuchote

tomasrojo wrote: »

I might be wrong, but someone here recently said that you have to walk the two sides. Diagonal crossing isn't permitted.

Maybe it's not true. I couldn't say. I have assumed that it is true that it is not permitted.

Crazy if it's not allowed - it's the logical and fast way to cross when whole junction is green for pedestrians.

Mercian Pro

This is the Stephens Green junction with Leeson St and Earlsfort Terrace mentioned above. I have found that riding along the line of the induction wire (red in the photo but not unfortunately in reality) triggers the sensors. When I asked DCC why there wasn't a marked induction wire in the bike lane, they said they couldn't install one due to building works going on at the Stephens Green/Earlsfort Tce corner (presumably the control box was there?). Must get on to them again now that that new building is finished.

Any type of bike, carbon or metal, will be picked up by the sensors once it has steel or aluminium wheels. I posted a link here before to an article explaining the science when this issue came up last year.

magicbastarder

you have a copy of that link? i don't understand how aluminium wheels would trigger it.

topcat77

magicbastarder wrote: »

you have a copy of that link? i don't understand how aluminium wheels would trigger it.

Maybe the valves, spokes or the clincher tyre rim?

Mercian Pro

magicbastarder wrote: »

you have a copy of that link? i don't understand how aluminium wheels would trigger it.

Haven't found it yet but still looking. I did come across this thread though: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056858184

magicbastarder

we have an induction hob at home. it's the business. my party trick (for people unfamiliar with them) is to bring a milk pan of water to the boil on a ring, lift the pot and place my hand on the ring.

my parties are the stuff of legend, obviously.

anyway, the reason i mention this is that aluminium only pans will not work, or even be detected by the hob.

Chuchote

magicbastarder wrote: »

we have an induction hob at home. it's the business. my party trick (for people unfamiliar with them) is to bring a milk pan of water to the boil on a ring, lift the pot and place my hand on the ring.

my parties are the stuff of legend, obviously.

anyway, the reason i mention this is that aluminium only pans will not work, or even be detected by the hob.

Don't do it while wearing that iron Viking ring!

Mercian Pro

Found it: http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/signals/detection.htm

An extract: "Most quality adult bicycles feature aluminum rims, which are excellent conductors. Lower quality bicycles and some older bicycles feature steel rims. Steel rims have lower conductivity than aluminum rims, per pound, but perform adequately for detection over a properly adjusted quadrupole loop sensor. Extremely low-weight wheels constructed of carbon fiber with no metal in the rim are sometimes used by racing cyclists for competitions. Carbon fiber is a conductor, but the loop conductivity of the wheel is affected by the materials used to bond it into shape. Very few cyclists use carbon fiber wheels for general utilitarian or recreational use on public roadways, however, because of their very high cost and somewhat lower durability than metal wheels."

The key seems to be in having the loop specifically designed for bikes and the sensor sensitivity properly adjusted. Despite this, the one in the photo I posted, although designed for cars, worked regularly for me on a carbon bike with aluminium wheels. The motorised gate from the office car park was also triggered by the same bike once I lined the wheels up with the wire.

cruizer101

There are products available which will apparently help with this problem, they are basically a strong magnet which helps to disturb the inductive field.

Here is a review of one from what I consider a reputable source, he was actually using it on a motorbike but the same principle applies
http://www.carbibles.com/productreviews_signalsorcerer.html

No experience myself but it should work, I'm sure they can be picked up on amazon or ebay. Or just pick up a strong magnet and find some way of attaching if you have an aluminium frame.

Carawaystick

magicbastarder wrote: »

you have a copy of that link? i don't understand how aluminium wheels would trigger it.

get an aluminium hoop
hang it from a thread.
Push a bar magnet through the hoop
watch the hoop move from the induced current in the aluminium.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNu4Wbe8ZeI