Nutrition Advice Required

PistolsAtDawn · 29-08-2016 12:13am #1

Currently trying to cut some weight, been back training for about a year now, after not engaging in any form of routine exercise during the preceding 5 years, and I've never really had a structured diet but I accept that in order to get the results I desire I need to understand more about the stuff I am putting in my gob. Problem is; I haven't a clue when it comes to things like macro splits etc... and I was wondering if any of you guys could offer some advice on what I have got so far (see below).

My details are as follows:

Sex: Male
Age: 28
Height: 5'10"
Weight: 85kg
Weekly Exercise:9 hours
(Boxing for 1 hour)*(3) + (Bik Ram Yoga for 1.5 hours)*(2) + (Weight Training for 1 hour)*(3)
Goal: Lose fat, gain/maintain muscle.
Short-term; I want to get bodyweight down below 81kg.
Long-term; Build back up to 81kg solely through muscle gain.

My (likely incorrect) daily caloric intake calculations are as follows:
Note: Calculator used; http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/

BMR: 1929
TDEE: 3327
Provisional Daily Allowance: 2662
Provisional Macro Split: (Protein: 45%), (Carbs: 20%), (Fat: 35%)

Also, using this calculator; http://macronutrientcalculator.com/, it appears I should be consuming; Protein: 260g, Carbs; 115g, Fat: 90g, daily.

If the above is correct, my next step will be to design a meal plan whereby cooking once or twice per week will be sufficient to cover my weekly nutritional requirements.

All help, comments, criticism welcomed.

Blacktie. · 29-08-2016 8:38am

You're TDEE seems very high. I have very similar stats and my TDEE is somewhere around 2700 calories.

Seems to be a lot of protein in your macro split. Where did you get it? Protein specifically should be fine set at around 2g per kg of bodyweight so around 170g for you. And it will be hard going that low on carbs ESPECIALLY considering this will be your first time really adjusting your diet. You'll find that to be a huge change and may initially struggle to find foods to suits your split.

slicus ricus · 29-08-2016 11:00am

What's your bodyfat percentage? In order to calculate protein and fats intake, you should be looking at lean body mass. I would go with somewhere between 1.2-1.6g of protein per lb of lean body mass (any higher is a waste) and 0.4g of fats per lb of lean body mass. The rest should be made up of carbs, with the majority of the carb consumption split between pre and post workout meals. By the looks of it, you have more protein in your split below than you need.

PistolsAtDawn wrote: »

Also, using this calculator; http://macronutrientcalculator.com/, it appears I should be consuming; Protein: 260g, Carbs; 115g, Fat: 90g, daily.

This does not add up. There's 4 cals in a gram of protein and a gram of carbs. There's 9 cals in a gram of fat. The above split (((260+115)*4)+(90*9)) gives you 2,310 calories which is less than your daily allowance of 2,662.

I actually reckon your TDEE is about spot on. From what you said in your post, you are doing 3 hours of weights per week, 3 hours of high intensity cardio and 1 hour of low intensity cardio per week. If when not exercising, you spend most of your time seated or standing, then you have the maintenance cals calculation about right IMO.

PistolsAtDawn · 29-08-2016 4:12pm

Blacktie. wrote: »

You're TDEE seems very high. I have very similar stats and my TDEE is somewhere around 2700 calories.

Thanks for taking the time to reply Blacktie.
What calculation/calculator do you use to calculate your TDEE?

Blacktie. wrote: »

Seems to be a lot of protein in your macro split. Where did you get it?

Unfortunately I can't remember the website where I got the original percentages from although I did alter them slightly myself, which probably accounts for the "seemingly" large amount of protein in my macro split.

What is the effect of increasing or decreasing the percentage protein portion of my diet?

Blacktie. wrote: »

Protein specifically should be fine set at around 2g per kg of bodyweight so around 170g for you.

I've read varying accounts online regarding protein intake per kg bodyweight.

Can you offer any insight into where this 'rule of thumb' originates?

Blacktie. wrote: »

And it will be hard going that low on carbs ESPECIALLY considering this will be your first time really adjusting your diet.

I've experimented with carb deficiency before, believe me I am under no illusions as to the difficulty of the experience, but I will still winge about it a lot during the process :-)

Blacktie. wrote: »

You'll find that to be a huge change and may initially struggle to find foods to suits your split.

Yes, this is basically my next task, once I get the macro split etc... out of the way i'll need to find meals suitable for my diet. Meals that can be prepared in bulk, in-so-far as possible, and eaten as required.

Can you personally recommend any good online sources for health recipes?

PistolsAtDawn · 29-08-2016 4:36pm

Thanks for taking the time to reply 'slicus ricus'.

slicus ricus wrote: »

What's your bodyfat percentage?

I don't know my exact body-fat percentage, haven't had it measured since before I returned to training. I'm guessing somewhere in the range 16%-24%. I know that's extremely vague, but unfortunately it's the best I've got to go on at the minute.

slicus ricus wrote: »

What's your bodyfat percentage?
In order to calculate protein and fats intake, you should be looking at lean body mass.

What is your definition of 'Lean Body Mass'?

slicus ricus wrote: »

What's your bodyfat percentage?
I would go with somewhere between 1.2-1.6g of protein per lb of lean body mass (any higher is a waste)

This is contradictory to what Blacktie recommended in his/her reply, he/she recommended 2g per kg bodyweight, I weight 85kg so thats (2)*(85kg) = 170g protein daily.
Using your recommended range 1.2-1.6g of protein per lb of lean body mass the following is observed;
- (1.2)*(185lbs) = 222g
- (1.3)*(185lbs) = 240g
- (1.4)*(185lbs) = 259g
- (1.5)*(185lbs) = 277g
- (1.6)*(185lbs) = 296g
Even the most conservative multiplier (i.e. 1.2) has a difference of +52g between that which was recommended in Blacktie's post.

Why do you recommend 1.2-1.6g of protein per lb of bodyweight?

Why is any more a waste?

Without wishing to cause an argument on the thread; who is correct you or Blacktie?

slicus ricus wrote: »

The rest should be made up of carbs, with the majority of the carb consumption split between pre and post workout meals.

Because carbs are where we get the energy from so we want so in order to work out but some after as that when our bodies will burn them up instead of turning them to fat, right?

slicus ricus wrote: »

By the looks of it, you have more protein in your split below than you need.

Blacktie said the same thing, i'll have to reduce my protein intake so.

But by decreasing this I will have to increase either my carbs or fats in order to maintain my desired daily calorie consumption target, is this statement correct?

slicus ricus wrote: »

This does not add up. There's 4 cals in a gram of protein and a gram of carbs. There's 9 cals in a gram of fat. The above split (((260+115)*4)+(90*9)) gives you 2,310 calories which is less than your daily allowance of 2,662.

That's because I am an idiot when it comes to this stuff :-), thanks for spotting it.

slicus ricus wrote: »

I actually reckon your TDEE is about spot on. From what you said in your post, you are doing 3 hours of weights per week, 3 hours of high intensity cardio and 1 hour of low intensity cardio per week. If when not exercising, you spend most of your time seated or standing, then you have the maintenance cals calculation about right IMO.

Outside of the previously stated exercise hours I spend my entire time in bed or sitting in-front of a computer screen.

Blacktie. · 29-08-2016 9:04pm

PistolsAtDawn wrote: »

Thanks for taking the time to reply Blacktie.
What calculation/calculator do you use to calculate your TDEE?

I've used a few calculators over time but I kind of figured it out myself through trial and error. This spreadsheet helped a lot too though it is a bit pain staking for a while.

Unfortunately I can't remember the website where I got the original percentages from although I did alter them slightly myself, which probably accounts for the "seemingly" large amount of protein in my macro split.
What is the effect of increasing or decreasing the percentage protein portion of my diet?

Well once you get above about 2g/kg it will be used as energy instead of any benefit in terms of muscle gain or fat loss. And considering protein tends to be the most expensive macronutrient you'd be better getting carbs or fats and getting the benefits from more of them available.

I've read varying accounts online regarding protein intake per kg bodyweight.
Can you offer any insight into where this 'rule of thumb' originates?

Honestly it's just something I've seen confirmed over and over in studies. Not that exact amount but the exact amount really doesn't matter and is hugely variable from person to person. Like what the guy above me was saying as well anywhere between 1.6-2.5g/kg is plenty I would say. Also note the guy above me was talking about lean body weight which would be your total weight minus your fat mass which for example if you were 80kg at 20% bodyfat then your lean body weight would be 64kg.

I've experimented with carb deficiency before, believe me I am under no illusions as to the difficulty of the experience, but I will still winge about it a lot during the process :-)

Fair enough but you don't NEED to have carbs so low to lose weight.

Yes, this is basically my next task, once I get the macro split etc... out of the way i'll need to find meals suitable for my diet. Meals that can be prepared in bulk, in-so-far as possible, and eaten as required.
Can you personally recommend any good online sources for health recipes?

Honestly I don't have many really. I got good at mixing some veg up with some herbs and spices and cook that pretty regularly. I would recommend fitmencook YouTube though. They have some solid recipes! Them and the protein chef.

slicus ricus · 30-08-2016 7:59am

PistolsAtDawn wrote: »

What is your definition of 'Lean Body Mass'?

Total weight minus fat weight. So if you are 85kg at 20% body fat, your lean body mass is 68kg (150 lbs).

PistolsAtDawn wrote: »

This is contradictory to what Blacktie recommended in his/her reply, he/she recommended 2g per kg bodyweight, I weight 85kg so thats (2)*(85kg) = 170g protein daily.
Using your recommended range 1.2-1.6g of protein per lb of lean body mass the following is observed;
- (1.2)*(185lbs) = 222g
- (1.3)*(185lbs) = 240g
- (1.4)*(185lbs) = 259g
- (1.5)*(185lbs) = 277g
- (1.6)*(185lbs) = 296g
Even the most conservative multiplier (i.e. 1.2) has a difference of +52g between that which was recommended in Blacktie's post.
Why do you recommend 1.2-1.6g of protein per lb of bodyweight?
Why is any more a waste?
Without wishing to cause an argument on the thread; who is correct you or Blacktie?

There's lots of conflicting information out there on the internet about this. There is no exact answer on who is right or wrong, I suggest read up on it online and make your own judgement on that. In terms of why more than 1.5-1.6g of protein per lb lean mass is a waste - basically the theory is that your body cannot use any more than that for muscle growth and repair and uses the excess for energy - carbs are a much more efficient energy source than protein.

I personally go for about 1.5g of protein per lb of lean body mass when cutting (and 1.6g when bulking/maintenance). In a cut, that allows me to get in 6 high protein meals in spread out during the day with a lower protein breakfast (14.5g protein, 57g carbs for use during the day).

PistolsAtDawn wrote: »

Because carbs are where we get the energy from so we want so in order to work out but some after as that when our bodies will burn them up instead of turning them to fat, right?

Yes, carbs are where you get your energy from which is why you should eat them before a work out. Also, when you lift weights, you deplete muscle glycogen (the storage form of carbohydrates). After lifting, it is therefore important to restock your muscles with glycogen through carbs.

PistolsAtDawn wrote: »

Blacktie said the same thing, i'll have to reduce my protein intake so.
But by decreasing this I will have to increase either my carbs or fats in order to maintain my desired daily calorie consumption target, is this statement correct?

Yes, carbs should be the remainder after working out protein and fats. Like I said in my first reply, work it out at 0.4g fats per lb lean body mass, your number of gram of protein per lb lean body mass. From there, work out how many calories each of these grams is providing (9 cals per g fat, 4 cals per g protein). Subtract this from calories allowance, which will give you your carb intake in calories - divide this by 4 to give you number of grams of carbs.

Mellor · 30-08-2016 8:16am

PistolsAtDawn wrote: »

[*]BMR: 1929
[*]TDEE: 3327
[*]Provisional Daily Allowance: 2662
[*]Provisional Macro Split: (Protein: 45%), (Carbs: 20%), (Fat: 35%)
[/LIST]

My initial reaction was that TDEE was too high.
I prefer a more even macro split. But i also feel that once you are gettign enough protein, the rest is fine as long as its not excessively low or high.

It becomes difficult to calculate TDEE at higher levels of activity as it relies on a subjective description like light, moderate, high.
I prefer to work out sedentary calories, then add an allowance for exercise.

From the Scooby calc above. Your sedantry cals are 2,314. So the TDEE above is 1,000 extra per day. 9 hours perweek is a lot, but I doubt its 7000cals.
The exact number depends on the specifics of the workouts. But roughly, its maybe 300 cals per hour for yoga and weights and 600 for the boxing.
That's 3600, less the 900 cals you would have burned doing nothing. 2700 per week, or 386 per day.
Add that you your sedantry cals above for you average daily TDEE, and it comes to 2700. (genuine coincidence btw)

What is your definition of 'Lean Body Mass'?

Lean body mass is bodyweight minus your fat mass.
You were using your total bodyweight, which is why you were getting hihg figures.
At 24% BF, your lean mass is 140lbs. 1.2g/lb is 168g protein, pretty close to the 170g suggestion (2g/kg).
1g/lb BW is another common suggetion. So anything in the 165-185 range sounds fine.

slicus ricus wrote: »

I actually reckon your TDEE is about spot on. From what you said in your post, you are doing 3 hours of weights per week, 3 hours of high intensity cardio and 1 hour of low intensity cardio per week.

Which are you considering low and high intensity cardio?

I wouldn't really think of yoga as cardio. The calories burn is alot lower than places like to make out. Boxing sparring is high intensity and can burn, boxing classes are much lower. He's unlikely to be doing 60mins flat out sparring.
I think its better to underestimate than overestimate these things.

slicus ricus · 30-08-2016 8:31am

Mellor wrote: »

Which are you considering low and high intensity cardio?

I wouldn't really think of yoga as cardio. The calories burn is alot lower than places like to make out. Boxing sparring is high intensity and can burn, boxing classes are much lower. He's unlikely to be doing 60mins flat out sparring.
I think its better to underestimate than overestimate these things.

I am considering boxing high intensity cardio (600 cals burned per hour) and yoga low intensity cardio (300 cals burned per hour). That's exactly what you have it down as in your post in terms of calories burned.

Mellor · 30-08-2016 10:57am

slicus ricus wrote: »

I am considering boxing high intensity cardio (600 cals burned per hour) and yoga low intensity cardio (300 cals burned per hour). That's exactly what you have it down as in your post in terms of calories burned.

Fair enough in that case.
I wouldn't consider yoga to be cardio. And I'd consider 600 cals/hr to be the low intensity cardio (in terms of run/row/bike). That's where the confusion came in. But it's just labelling. The numbers are the same.

Nutrition Advice Required

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