Have Dublin raised the bar ? (GAA) # Mod Note 129

chillin117

It could be any county but I think Dublin Football have really raised the bar in regards to fitness, hunger etc. For unwaged players they would be on par with any premiership club. Hope the rest keep up but they seem so far ahead of the rest. Before you say it, They could fall to pieces next year but it's lovely to see that level of dedication in an amateur sport.

me_irl

I'd say it was a game of two halves, but at the end of the day they put them under pressure and a ludicrous display.

Temptamperu

Is there no muckball section?

Richard Hillman

What was that manager doing with that substitution???

me_irl

Richard Hillman wrote: »

What was that manager doing with that substitution???

That's Dublin, they always try to stab walk it in.

chillin117

me_irl wrote: »

I'd say it was a game of two halves, but at the end of the day they put them under pressure and a ludicrous display.

Is ''Vague'' your middle name ? Who put who under pressure ? You could be talking about any game, Soccer ? Hurling ? Ireland ? Spanish Liga 1 ?
I would hate to be ''Questioning'' you !

JustTheOne

Ah here bit of a disadvantage when you have a population of 2 million versus 60,000.

Dublin will always have the advantage and should be miles ahead.

It's not a great thing.

me_irl

chillin117 wrote: »

Is ''Vague'' your middle name ? Who put who under pressure ? You could be talking about any game, Soccer ? Hurling ? Ireland ? Spanish Liga 1 ?
I would hate to be ''Questioning'' you !

Wait for it...

jimmytwotimes 2013

This Dublin team have managed to make two finals running for the first time. Kerry made 6 finals in a row from 2004-2009 and nobody got their knickers in a twist over that.

Perspective.

Junkyard Tom

The athleticism!

KyranW

What was Jim Gavin thinking putting O'Gara on that early?

Pim Pictus

JustTheOne wrote: »

Ah here bit of a disadvantage when you have a population of 2 million versus 60,000.

Dublin will always have the advantage and should be miles ahead.

It's not a great thing.

Everyone that's actually from Dublin now live in Meath, Wicklow, Kildare and Australia though. So only a very small percentage of that 2 million actually qualify to play for Dublin.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Why are bloodsports still legal in Ireland?

Your Face

Great game.

JustTheOne

Pim Pictus wrote: »

Everyone that's actually from Dublin now live in Meath, Wicklow, Kildare and Australia though. So only a very small percentage of that 2 million actually qualify to play for Dublin.

Hardly 1.5 million of them:)

Dice75

JustTheOne wrote: »

Ah here bit of a disadvantage when you have a population of 2 million versus 60,000.

Dublin will always have the advantage and should be miles ahead.

It's not a great thing.

Thats why China win the World Cup every 4 years too...

Zxclnic

chillin117 wrote: »

It could be any county but I think Dublin Football have really raised the bar in regards to fitness, hunger etc. For unwaged players they would be on par with any premiership club. Hope the rest keep up but they seem so far ahead of the rest. Before you say it, They could fall to pieces next year but it's lovely to see that level of dedication in an amateur sport.

Are you sure about the above in bold, have there been actual comparisons in terms of yardage covered and at what speed etc?
Bearing in mind the extra 20 minutes per game played by professional footballers it must be very difficult to compare the fitness levels of amateur GAA players and Premiership footballers.
Plus it requires more concentration and skill to run quickly with the ball at your feet as opposed to running with the ball in your hand, like a lot of people here I've played both 'codes' in school (badly), so please don't come back at me and try to say it's the other way round.
As a Dub I have to say well done to the boys in blue and hard luck to Kerry!:)

JustTheOne

Dice75 wrote: »

Thats why China win the World Cup every 4 years too...

Ridiculous comparison.

KungPao

JustTheOne wrote: »

Ah here bit of a disadvantage when you have a population of 2 million versus 60,000.

Dublin will always have the advantage and should be miles ahead.

It's not a great thing.

Less than that, and what, about 10% of Dubliners even care about the gaa. We're all a bunch of west-brits after all.

JustTheOne

KungPao wrote: »

Less than that, and what, about 10% of Dubliners even care about the gaa. We're all a bunch of west-brits after all.

Did you just pull 10% out of your hole?

And I doubt it's 100% in each county apart from Dublin either.

Dublin have such an advantage with population, funding, croke park each game it's ridiculous.

Zxclnic

KungPao wrote: »

Less than that, and what, about 10% of Dubliners even care about the gaa. We're all a bunch of west-brits after all.

That's true. Most of the people I know were sitting comfortably at home on their sofas today watching....Man City v West Ham!

KungPao

JustTheOne wrote: »

Did you just pull 10% out of your hole?

And I doubt it's 100% in each county apart from Dublin either.

Dublin have such an advantage with population, funding, croke park each game it's ridiculous.

That's precisely where I pulled it from.

But I know very few people here that give a toss about GAA. It's all football (soccer) and egg chasing.

NIMAN

They were pushed very close by both donegal and kerry and could easily have lost either game.

I don't think they are as far ahead as many dubs believe they are.

Westernyelp

KungPao wrote: »

That's precisely where I pulled it from.

But I know very few people here that give a toss about GAA. It's all football (soccer) and egg chasing.

85,000 odd at the game today

JustTheOne

Westernyelp wrote: »

85,000 odd at the game today

Many people still looking for tickets too.

How many GAA clubs in Dublin compared to other counties too.

dd972

Kerry teams of yore or the late 80's/early 90's Meath team would wipe the floor with this Dublin team given the same fitness and conditioning levels as would the 70's Dublin team. They're nothing special and are taking advantage of weakened opposition, expect Mayo to bottle it (again) next month.

robbiezero

dd972 wrote: »

Kerry teams of yore or the late 80's/early 90's Meath team would wipe the floor with this Dublin team given the same fitness and conditioning levels as would the 70's Dublin team. They're nothing special and are taking advantage of weakened opposition, expect Mayo to bottle it (again) next month.

I think the Dubs are a super team, but I agree that the opposition is fairly weak. Kerry aren't a patch on their great team of the last decade, likewise Tyrone.

lawlolawl

Boy howdy did a game happen today.

There were winners, there were losers.

It had everything: running, kicking, scoring. The losers should have tried a bit harder to win so that they didn't up losing like they did but you can't fault the winners tactic of scoring more because it meant that they went on to win.

That one guy played really well.

ancapailldorcha

Thread moved to GAA. Please be aware that their charter applies.

Zxclnic

KyranW wrote: »

What was Jim Gavin thinking putting O'Gara on that early?

He was probably thinking..'I'll put O'Gara on early'.

Godge

JustTheOne wrote: »

Ridiculous comparison.

You are right.

We should be expecting China to win the Rugby World Cup and Cricket World Cup every four years as they have a bigger advantage population wise than Dublin have.

Red Kev

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

This Dublin team have managed to make two finals running for the first time. Kerry made 6 finals in a row from 2004-2009 and nobody got their knickers in a twist over that.

Perspective.

Dublin managed 6 finals in a row in the 70's (Kerry "only" managed 5 in a row) and nobody got their kniickers in a twist over that.
They've done 3 and 4 in a row a good few times as well.

Perspective.

d22ontour

dd972 wrote: »

They're nothing special

The Dublin team is dripping with all stars, some of them even take a year out from playing and they still get to the final, nothing special you say ? I think we are witnessing something special.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Red Kev wrote: »

Dublin managed 6 finals in a row in the 70's (Kerry "only" managed 5 in a row) and nobody got their kniickers in a twist over that.
They've done 3 and 4 in a row a good few times as well.

Perspective.

6, 5.................. 2

Perspective

Dick Turnip

JustTheOne wrote: »

Ah here bit of a disadvantage when you have a population of 2 million versus 60,000.

Dublin will always have the advantage and should be miles ahead.

It's not a great thing.

Population of Dublin was 1.35 in the most recent census.
Population of Kerry was 147k.

Don't know the % of the 2016 census, but as per the prior census, 1 in 5 people living in Dublin were born outside of Ireland.

Obviously they still have a major advantage in that regard over other counties, just may aswell get the ol' figures right when you go to the bother of making a statement like that

STB.

JustTheOne wrote: »

Ah here bit of a disadvantage when you have a population of 2 million versus 60,000.

Dublin will always have the advantage and should be miles ahead.

It's not a great thing.

For a start the population of Dublin is 1.3m.

Yes. The population of Dublin is the reason that they have won just 5 All Irelands since 1983. :rolleyes:

Comparatively Kilkenny has a population 99,000 and has won 14 Hurling All Irelands since 1983.

The quantity and type of competing sport are greater in Dublin. In Kilkenny you must move county if you play any sport, probably.

Sorry do carry on.

Noveight

I think the standard of athleticism in the GAA has risen hugely in recent years and the Dubs have one of the best conditioned sides out there. The likes of Kerry or Mayo might equal or even exceed their talent in terms of passing and scoring but Dublin's ability to power on and grind out the last 15 minutes is phenomenal, so they have risen the bar in that regard.

deeroy12

dd972 wrote: »

Kerry teams of yore or the late 80's/early 90's Meath team would wipe the floor with this Dublin team given the same fitness and conditioning levels as would the 70's Dublin team. They're nothing special and are taking advantage of weakened opposition, expect Mayo to bottle it (again) next month.

Kerry didnt win all ireland from the the late 80's/early 90's.Cork were the dominant force in munster in those yrs

Dirty Dingus McGee

dd972 wrote: »

Kerry teams of yore or the late 80's/early 90's Meath team would wipe the floor with this Dublin team given the same fitness and conditioning levels as would the 70's Dublin team. They're nothing special and are taking advantage of weakened opposition, expect Mayo to bottle it (again) next month.

Dublin's skill level is what sets them apart they can get huge scores whenever it's needed for them and multiple players can kick accurately off both feet which wasn't something that was all that common for teams in the past.Dublin are up their with the very best teams of all time.

Mayo won't bottle it they'll just probably lose to a better team and there is no shame in that.

vetinari

Dublin's dominance has been a bit different to the dominance of Kerry 5 to 10 years ago.
Speaking as a Corkman, Kerry didn't wow you with their athleticism per se. They were very clinical in front of goal though.
That was what set them apart.

Dublin on the other hand, had plenty of skillful players too.
But it's their fitness and their athleticism that wows you.

I mean if this was athletics you'd be wondering if Dublin were using EPO.
How are they achieving fitness levels (across a squad) that dwarf pretty much anyone else?

I mean even today, Kerry needed two soft goals to stay in the game.
They were for the most part blown away fitness wise.
Any they're the second best team in the country!

Dirty Dingus McGee

vetinari wrote: »

Dublin's dominance has been a bit different to the dominance of Kerry 5 to 10 years ago.
Speaking as a Corkman, Kerry didn't wow you with their athleticism per se. They were very clinical in front of goal though.
That was what set them apart.

Dublin on the other hand, had plenty of skillful players too.
But it's their fitness and their athleticism that wows you.

I mean if this was athletics you'd be wondering if Dublin were using EPO.
How are they achieving fitness levels (across a squad) that dwarf pretty much anyone else?

I mean even today, Kerry needed two soft goals to stay in the game.
They were for the most part blown away fitness wise.
Any they're the second best team in the country!

There is a difference between fitness and athleticism.

Dublin are probbaly no fitter than most other top teams the diffeence is some of their players have a great degreee of natural athleticism that all the training in the world won't give you.The likes of Colm Cooper,Brian Sheehan could train ten times as hard as some players and he still wouldn't be a great athlete.

The likes of Connolly,Flynn,Kilkenny etc are just simpy great natural athletes that probably would have been good at any number of sports if they applied themselves to them.

JustTheOne

Godge wrote: »

You are right.

We should be expecting China to win the Rugby World Cup and Cricket World Cup every four years as they have a bigger advantage population wise than Dublin have.

Stupid comparison.

Dublin is the home of gaa.

It gets the most funding.

Chinese people just aren't built to be great football or rugby players.

Dublin plays all its games at home with sell out crowds.

It has the most gaa clubs.

To say Dublin doesn't have an advantage is ridiculous.

Dirty Dingus McGee

JustTheOne wrote: »

Stupid comparison.

Dublin is the home of gaa.

It gets the most funding.

Chinese people just aren't built to be great football or rugby players.

Dublin plays all its games at home with sell out crowds.

It has the most gaa clubs.

To say Dublin doesn't have an advantage is ridiculous.

There are more clubs in Cork.

Dots1982

Godge wrote: »

JustTheOne wrote: »

Ridiculous comparison.

You are right.

We should be expecting China to win the Rugby World Cup and Cricket World Cup every four years as they have a bigger advantage population wise than Dublin have.

It's hard for China to be good at football if very few people in the country own a football.

JustTheOne

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

There are more clubs in Cork.

Really? Didn't know that.

mountgomery burns

They got the job done today but Dublin have an awful habit of leaving teams in the game. They did it against Donegal and Laois but neither team had the quality to really test them.

Yesterday, Kerry were on top for a bout 20 minutes of the 70 and yet the scores were level in injury time. I think yesterday was the all ireland final but I do think people get carried away with the Dubs. A very good panel and some great players but they are not a super team they like of which we have never seen before.

Two years ago they were going to win every all-ireland for the foreseeable future and since then we have seen Donegal beat them, Mayo draw with them and Kerry just touched off. To be fair though, a lot of the hype actually comes from outside Dublin. Plenty of their fans are more realistic about their prospects.

dd972

JustTheOne wrote: »

Stupid comparison.

Chinese people just aren't built to be great football or rugby players.

One word, Messi :pac:. Off topic but the Chinese will improve exponentially at the old soccerball over the next 15/20 years, they are about where the U.S were some time back.

quad_red

vetinari wrote: »

Dublin's dominance has been a bit different to the dominance of Kerry 5 to 10 years ago.
Speaking as a Corkman, Kerry didn't wow you with their athleticism per se. They were very clinical in front of goal though.
That was what set them apart.

Dublin on the other hand, had plenty of skillful players too.
But it's their fitness and their athleticism that wows you.

I mean if this was athletics you'd be wondering if Dublin were using EPO.
How are they achieving fitness levels (across a squad) that dwarf pretty much anyone else?

I mean even today, Kerry needed two soft goals to stay in the game.
They were for the most part blown away fitness wise.
Any they're the second best team in the country!

Ah now, you're not allowed say that. According to Bonnie this isn't even up for debate until Dublin win ten all ireland's in a row. Then, and only then, can a discussion like this be had!

It's not the definitive factor by any means but surely the sophistication and resourcing of Dublin's backroom setup has to got to be paying dividends somewhere to some extent?

And it's not about bringing Dublin back to the mean - it's how other competitors can be similarly resourced (and not just money) to be able to bring their players up to a similar level of fitness at least.

Flukey

JustTheOne wrote: »

Stupid comparison.

Dublin is the home of gaa.

It gets the most funding.

Chinese people just aren't built to be great football or rugby players.

Dublin plays all its games at home with sell out crowds.

It has the most gaa clubs.

To say Dublin doesn't have an advantage is ridiculous.

The population argument is ridiculous. No matter what size we have, we can still only put 15 of them on the pitch, the same as any other county. Just because we have a bigger population to pick from, it doesn't mean the quality of those players are going to be higher than those of other counties. We don't get all 15 All-Stars each year. Kerry and Kilkenny have far fewer people, but comfortably top the rolls of honour, so population obviously has nothing to do it. Any county, no matter how small a population, can find 30 or 40 high quality players to make up a panel, as good as any player in any county. As people have pointed out, if population was an issue then China would win the World Cup, though people forgot to mention that they would always beat India in the final.

As was pointed out, Cork has more GAA clubs, so you should check your facts. There are a few others you should check too, like Dublin's home games. In fact, Dublin have not had a home game in the championship since 2004. Even if you want to ignore that one and say Croke Park is an advantage, the facts don't back that up either, far from it in fact. We've won 4 All-Irelands in the last 30 years. In all but one of the other 26, we were knocked out in Croke Park, in some years suffering two championship defeats there. So if we have an advantage, which we don't, we clearly are making very bad use of it. Compare that to Kerry and Kilkenny over the last 30 years. If teams are to be stopped playing in Croke Park, those two and maybe even a few others are well ahead of us in that queue. As to the funding, we get a lot of it because of our large population. Dividing the total funds the GAA has into 32 even slices would not be the fair way and would make no sense. Aside from that, it is how you put that funding to use that is important, not how much you get. Some counties with far less funding than Dublin, have put their funding to far better use and their results prove that.

So to say Dublin have advantages is ridiculous and even if for some crazy reason you still believe we do, then we certainly have done extremely badly at using them, especially compared with counties that on your line of thinking have none at all. Indeed, us Dubs should be ashamed at how poorly we've done with these mythical advantages. If we did have those advantages then our record is an absolute disgrace.

danganabu

Flukey wrote: »

The population argument is ridiculous. No matter what size we have, we can still only put 15 of them on the pitch, the same as any other county. Just because we have a bigger population to pick from, it doesn't mean the quality of those players are going to be higher than those of other counties. We don't get all 15 All-Stars each year. Kerry and Kilkenny have far fewer people, but comfortably top the rolls of honour, so population obviously has nothing to do it. Any county, no matter how small a population, can find 30 or 40 high quality players to make up a panel, as good as any player in any county. As people have pointed out, if population was an issue then China would win the World Cup, though people forgot to mention that they would always beat India in the final.

As was pointed out, Cork has more GAA clubs, so you should check your facts. There are a few others you should check too, like Dublin's home games. In fact, Dublin have not had a home game in the championship since 2004. Even if you want to ignore that one and say Croke Park is an advantage, the facts don't back that up either, far from it in fact. We've won 4 All-Irelands in the last 30 years. In all but one of the other 26, we were knocked out in Croke Park, in some years suffering two championship defeats there. So if we have an advantage, which we don't, we clearly are making very bad use of it. Compare that to Kerry and Kilkenny over the last 30 years. If teams are to be stopped playing in Croke Park, those two and maybe even a few others are well ahead of us in that queue. As to the funding, we get a lot of it because of our large population. Dividing the total funds the GAA has into 32 even slices would not be the fair way and would make no sense. Aside from that, it is how you put that funding to use that is important, not how much you get. Some counties with far less funding than Dublin, have put their funding to far better use and their results prove that.

So to say Dublin have advantages is ridiculous and even if for some crazy reason you still believe we do, then we certainly have done extremely badly at using them, especially compared with counties that on your line of thinking have none at all. Indeed, us Dubs should be ashamed at how poorly we've done with these mythical advantages. If we did have those advantages then our record is an absolute disgrace.

Of course population plays a part, suggesting otherwise is absolutely daft. Its not a deciding factor but it does play a part.

Cork have more clubs, Dublin has more registered club players, the vast majority of rural clubs in Cork are tiny.

Arguing that Parnel Park is Dublin's home ground is just plain silly, half your team probably doesn't even know where it is ffs.

Dots1982

Any county, no matter how small a population, can find 30 or 40 high quality players to make up a panel, as good as any player in any county.



Nonsense