Angus cattle

blonde10

Has anyone ever consider switched to breeding Angus as opposed to limousines Charolais Simmental and the like,with factories now looking for a lighter carcass,and the Angus cow easy kept, breed a good hardy calf,that should hit the ground with a degree of ease,are Angus or the traditional breeds in general an option in the suckling industry going forward.?
Your thoughts please.

50HX

like all breeds they have their place

i wouldn't be wiping out the continentals and replacing with Angus of dairy finisher just because the factories say they want them


as sure as i write this if we all followed the factories they'd be looking for U grade Lim/CH in 3 years time

+ plus we would be doing away with anything for the export market

feartuath

I have two Angus from dairy herd and they produce nice weanings when crossed with limousin bull.
The cows have plenty of milk and are quiet cows but you would want to be selling offspring as stores or finishing them yourself.

This year I bought 12 calves from the same dairy farm 9 heifers and 2 bulls.
A bit or a mixed bunch but ok at 200 each.
All heifers are currently 5 star and I have an order for more next year from him.

feartuath

Agreed there will always be a market for the good continental weanling.

wiggy123

true..more traditional breeds could be the future.. will be lighter weighs as cows, so easier kept! more profit.. also carbon footprint will come into effect.. so maybe the days od a tonne weight suckler cow-are gone

whelan2

wiggy123 wrote: »

true..more traditional breeds could be the future.. will be lighter weighs as cows, so easier kept! more profit.. also carbon footprint will come into effect.. so maybe the days od a tonne weight suckler cow-are gone

you can still have a tonne weight angus cow :cool:

wiggy123

true

blue5000

I reckon somewhere between 95 and 99% of the profit on a beef farm comes from how the cattle, grass etc is managed. 1-5% is maybe down to what breed the cattle are. Some lads can make a living producing holstein x fr bulls. There is no ideal breed, it all depends on your land type, what market you aim for and when you sell.

Ok Angus cows are probably easier to look after, but a typical angus heifer is finished at around 270-300 kg DW. Multiply that by €4 and winter the cow, there isn't a lot left for grocery money.

kk.man

blue5000 wrote: »

I reckon somewhere between 95 and 99% of the profit on a beef farm comes from how the cattle, grass etc is managed. 1-5% is maybe down to what breed the cattle are. Some lads can make a living producing holstein x fr bulls. There is no ideal breed, it all depends on your land type, what market you aim for and when you sell.

Ok Angus cows are probably easier to look after, but a typical angus heifer is finished at around 270-300 kg DW. Multiply that by €4 and winter the cow, there isn't a lot left for grocery money.

Its a very true statement, Blue ....love the 'grocery money ' bit😅

Bass Reeves

Think I would look at Hereford cattle rather than AA. Another option would be to go for Hybrid bulls like they do in the US and Canada. I saw a bull a few years ago 3/4 HE 1/4 LM. He was being used on black Herefords cows.The calves were superb they had little bit more bone and growth than a straight Hereford bull.

TBH if I was at sucklers I be going for a CH/FR or LM/FR cross cows. I think if I was at it fulltime I would consider double suckling.

Who2

They don't cross well with most breeds using an Angus cow. Running a bull on continental cows has its place but they are really only one trick pines suited for the local market even when crossed with limos you might get a good calf you won't get a great calf, I wouldn't be a major fan, alright for dairy cows but if you're keeping sucklers you need to have the best no point in settling on good calves. Also the few Angus cows I have are no easier kept than the rest of them.

tractorporn

Bass Reeves wrote:

TBH if I was at sucklers I be going for a CH/FR or LM/FR cross cows. I think if I was at it fulltime I would consider double suckling.

The auld lad double and treble sucked angus, black whitehead and Fr cows here right up until the Suckler Cow premium came in. I would be the same as bass as soon as I go full time I'm going to go back to it. Have gone away from 3/4 Charolais back to Lim xFr whiteheads and Angus xFr just for ease of management while there's no help and for milk.

Bass Reeves

I think what most lads have against HE or AA suckler herads are most lads at it only do it half arsed. Late calving keeping there own cows not pushing prodgney to there maximum. Saw an article a few years ago about a lad that had sloped land he was using an AA bull on BBXHO cows. He was killing heifers at 10 months U/R+ and bulls as mostly U at 22months. He was in the UK somewhere. Calf got up by himself and suckled.

TBH HE and AA are more than likely only really viable where a farmer intends to finish them himself

Who2

If they were good everyone would be at them.

Robeman

blonde10 wrote: »

Has anyone ever consider switched to breeding Angus as opposed to limousines Charolais Simmental and the like,with factories now looking for a lighter carcass,and the Angus cow easy kept, breed a good hardy calf,that should hit the ground with a degree of ease,are Angus or the traditional breeds in general an option in the suckling industry going forward.?
Your thoughts please.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with AA if you want lighter finished animal. Also best suited if you are operating on more marginal land. Irish AA sold as a premium product in some continental markets whereas here we would see it as somewhat below continental breeds

Salrub

What do people think about buying 10 or so Angus weanlings and finishing at 30 months on AA scheme through factories? Anyone ever try something like this?

blue5000

If you are not breeding them yourself you have to finish a minimum of 50 per year in one of the groups anyway.

Salrub

blue5000 wrote: »

If you are not breeding them yourself you have to finish a minimum of 50 per year in one of the groups anyway.

Thanks, didn't know that about 50 per year, doubt I'll be doing that much!! Have about 5 aa cows among herd so I could a.i them with a Angus bull and finish them from there

Salrub

blue5000 wrote: »

If you are not breeding them yourself you have to finish a minimum of 50 per year in one of the groups anyway.

Thanks, didn't know that about 50 per year, doubt I'll be doing that much!! Have about 5 aa cows among herd so I could a.i them with a Angus bull and finish them from there

Count Mondego

You'd wonder why angus is a premium product in Ireland and the UK when 90% of them slaughtered are half Friesian.

White Clover

Count Mondego wrote: »

You'd wonder why angus is a premium product in Ireland and the UK when 90% of them slaughtered are half Friesian.

Believe it or not, but the meat from a holstein is highly marbled!

Bass Reeves

blue5000 wrote: »

If you are not breeding them yourself you have to finish a minimum of 50 per year in one of the groups anyway.

That is incorrect Blue. The 50/year is to achieve the super bonus. If you join the scheme they pay the 15c/kg on the AA it the higher level you may be excluded from .When they are short of cattle as long as you are Board Bia approved they may take your cattle anyway.

blue5000

Bass Reeves wrote: »

That is incorrect Blue. The 50/year is to achieve the super bonus. If you join the scheme they pay the 15c/kg on the AA it the higher level you may be excluded from .When they are short of cattle as long as you are Board Bia approved they may take your cattle anyway.

I said in one of the groups, from Kepak's terms and conditions

Terms and conditions for AAA Scheme
The bonus for the AAA scheme ranges from 25c/kg in times of Standard production to 40c/kg in times of Off Season Production.

Heifers 30 months, carcass weight 220-360kgs
Steers 30 months, carcass weight 260-360kgs
Young bulls 16 months, carcass weight 220-360kg
Eligible Grades – E, U, R, O=/+, Fat Score 2+ to 4=
2= in young bulls, 4+ in other do not qualify
Minimum residency of 90 days
Maximum of 2 movements
Falling outside AAA paid as standard
Cattle must be pre-booked 100 days in advance of processing
Members must supply a minimum number of cattle per year to avail of the AAA bonus. Finishing farmers must supply >50 cattle per year and Suckler farmers must supply >20 cattle her year to avail of the bonus.

The ABP one is probably what you are writing about?

Genghis Cant

Salrub wrote: »

Have about 5 aa cows among herd so I could a.i them with a Angus bull and finish them from there

For the AA scheme it's my understanding that all you need is AA on the card. So if you used an AA bull on any breed of cow the calves could qualify.

Bass Reeves

blue5000 wrote: »

I said in one of the groups, from Kepak's terms and conditions

Terms and conditions for AAA Scheme
The bonus for the AAA scheme ranges from 25c/kg in times of Standard production to 40c/kg in times of Off Season Production.

Heifers 30 months, carcass weight 220-360kgs
Steers 30 months, carcass weight 260-360kgs
Young bulls 16 months, carcass weight 220-360kg
Eligible Grades – E, U, R, O=/+, Fat Score 2+ to 4=
2= in young bulls, 4+ in other do not qualify
Minimum residency of 90 days
Maximum of 2 movements
Falling outside AAA paid as standard
Cattle must be pre-booked 100 days in advance of processing
Members must supply a minimum number of cattle per year to avail of the AAA bonus. Finishing farmers must supply >50 cattle per year and Suckler farmers must supply >20 cattle her year to avail of the bonus.

The ABP one is probably what you are writing about?

Sorry

Genghis Cant wrote: »

For the AA scheme it's my understanding that all you need is AA on the card. So if you used an AA bull on any breed of cow the calves could qualify.

TBH if it is AA on the card, the animal is polled, fullfills the colour rules and has AAX on the cards it qualifies.

charolais0153

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Sorry



TBH if it is AA on the card, the animal is polled, fullfills the colour rules and has AAX on the cards it qualifies.

What's the colour rules. have had Angus out of chx cows come mousey

farawaygrass

Count Mondego wrote: »

You'd wonder why angus is a premium product in Ireland and the UK when 90% of them slaughtered are half Friesian.

They still have to make the grid to qualify for bonus. I had 12 last year and killed them for a flat price for this reason

blue5000

Bass I couldn't find specs online for ABP angus group, so you might be right.

Mousey coloured aa x ch are acceptable as long as they are polled, and have angus on the card, if there's any doubt they look at them before you kill them in the lairage, bit foo*in late then says you.

Salrub

So I take it that if it says AAX on the animals card you qualify for bonus? Do you have to register with the AA society in order to get the bonus at slaughter time or do you just ask the factory for bonus?

jfh

Salrub wrote: »

So I take it that if it says AAX on the animals card you qualify for bonus? Do you have to register with the AA society in order to get the bonus at slaughter time or do you just ask the factory for bonus?

Interested in this too.
Thought you need to be part of the Irish Angus producers group?

Irish Beef

Surely if you just send cattle to factory with AAx on the card and not signed up to any scheme the bonus is far lower than the 25c/KG mentioned in the Kepak's scheme.

whelan2

Irish Beef wrote: »

Surely if you just send cattle to factory with AAx on the card and not signed up to any scheme the bonus is far lower than the 25c/KG mentioned in the Kepak's scheme.

Is AA pedigree and AAX is not pedigree? If so dont think too many pedigree animals would be going into the scheme

Bellview

jfh wrote:

Interested in this too. Thought you need to be part of the Irish Angus producers group?

Best contact the producers group directly. They have a website etc. There is also an inspection process in the factory to ensure that animal is aax and not a jex

tanko

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Sorry



TBH if it is AA on the card, the animal is polled, fullfills the colour rules and has AAX on the cards it qualifies.

Didn't know there's colour rules. Have a white Angus calf here this year off KYA and had a couple of them off KDU over the years. Do they qualify?

sonnybill

Saw 2 AA X FR heifer calves well weanlings nearly I suppose e255 ..,value for someone there!

Bellview

tanko wrote: »

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Sorry



TBH if it is AA on the card, the animal is polled, fullfills the colour rules and has AAX on the cards it qualifies.

Didn't know there's colour rules. Have a white Angus calf here this year off KYA and had a couple of them off KDU over the years. Do they qualify

best speak with producer group link below. There are no colour rules as the calves could be black & white of Fr or HE or even ed off lime etc. one key for the inspection is the poll..as we all know of stories of smart boys adding AAx to cards when calve was really a Jex

http://www.angusproducergroup.com/