Confidentiality Problem

LegacyUser

My friend is dating a newly qualified doctor. I have never liked him, he always struck me as slightly creepy, so I don't know if I am over reacting or not. This is what I need some help with I think.

I met them recently and ended up going for coffee with them. They have been together for about 6 months. A few years ago, she was in hospital for a one off illness. Anyway, he casually mentioned over coffee that he has looked up her medical records and how easy it is to look up anyone's records once you have access to the HSE database. He looked at me and smirked. He knows my date of birth and my parents address too (neighbours of my friend). I suspect that he has looked my medical records up. They are not embarrassing at all, I had my appendix out, broke a few bones and other minor stuff.

I really do think that he has looked my records up and probably all of her family and I would say that anyone in her life could be under scrutiny. It seems to me to be highly inappropriate for him to be accessing her records but he told her that he wanted to make sure that the illness wouldn't reoccur (no chance).

I don't know what to do about it. I feel really angry but I am not sure if I am being completely irrational or not.

For context, he is very controlling, always wants to be with her, tries to isolate her from friends and family and is fully convinced that he is the best doctor and by association the best person in the world. He is a nasty piece of work, so that may be clouding my judgement?

Report this issue to the Irish Medical Org, and be prepared to stand by it for the sake of anyone else this guy knows and all his present and future patients. This is a serious breach of ethics, even if your friend gave permission as she isn't his patient and it's not on, and this guy needs to be held to account for it.

This is a bigger issue than your friend and your relationship with her, and this guy sounds like a load of red flags. The sooner he realises his actions have consequences the better. Medical records are, or should be, private.

notsoyoungwan

if he has looked up her records without valid reason (ie medical necessity) and without consent, then that's a serious issue.

Similarly,if he has done so with others.

However, I'm not convinced that he has. Firstly, there is no central "HSE database". Each hospital has their own record system and most hospitals have paper files, not electronic ones. Nobody in hospital A can access hospital B's notes via a database. Even if he's in the same hospital as that you/her family were in, it's still not easy access files, the paper charts are stored in med records, have to be requested and can sometimes take days to arrive after being requested. The letters typed on the hospital computers are stored on the computer system but generally access to them is protected and limited. I'm a hospital consultant and this very morning I couldn't access a letter that a consultant colleague in a different discipline had sent to me on a patient (he'd seen her after I'd referred her to him, written back to me and that letter had gone in her chart. Her chart was in records, she was acutely unwell and I needed that letter urgently. Couldn't get access to it on the system, neither could my secretary).

So I think this guy is full of BS and possibly trying to 'impress'.

Now, if he's looked up her records as he's said he's done, that's very serious. But you are making another very serious accusation about him looking up yours, her parents etc - you have nothing to base this on beyond a smirk/smile and the fact that you don't really like the guy and don't trust him. I'm not defending him, but just saying that what you're throwing out there with no evidence is potentially hugely damaging to him. So tread carefully. In the first instance I'd ask him "hey,did you really look up girlfriend's notes, are you allowed do that?" and see what he says.

Merkin

There's no centralised patient HSE database.

LegacyUser

I am probably using the wrong terms for data storage.

He is in the local hospital, so that is where all our records are stored.

I am not randomly throwing accusations around. He said that he went through her medical records and said that it was very easy for him to do that for anyone. The smirk may be what made my skin crawl, but it is what he claimed.

I don't work in the HSE, so I am not familiar with the ins and outs but this is what I was told.

Gatling

Suppose if he had individual hospital numbers but most people couldn't tell you what there numbers are ,
Unless your unfortunate enough that you spend that much time in and out of hospitals you actually remember it ,
Going by what little information you have it does remotely seem possible that a newly qualified doctor in any hospital in this country would have the time to sit and pull patient files Willy nilly ,
You might be over thinking this ,
If your wrong and get him investigated based off a smile or whatever you may have misunderstood it could end causing permanent damage to your friendship

SouthernBelle

Is she sure he's really a doctor? He doesn't sound very professional.

notsoyoungwan

notsoyoungwan wrote: »

Firstly, there is no central "HSE database".

Sounds like he's just a tool who wants to play manipulative mind games if that's the case.

Not a great catch for your friend, OP.

LegacyUser

Just to clarify for the op, while there isn't technically a "HSE database" there is the patient management system (PAS) which is regionally linked and while it doesn't contain your medical records, it holds information associated with every allocated medical record number (MRN) in an administrative capacity. Essentially your DOB, address, next of kin, your doctor, where your files are currently located and where and when they were last accessed.

Most of this information is obtained from you with the exception of the last two, which while limited gives the reader enough information to trace your previous attendance if they so wished. Your medical records on the other hand are physical documents which are supposed to be securely stored in the medical record storage facility, which is much like an archival department and must be requested formally via that departments request procedure. (Usually via email) These documents are electronically tagged and scanned at every request, delivery and arrival, by date and name of corresponding requestee or releasee.

Therefore, if there were any unauthorized access requests there would be history and evidence of such. Or at least that's how it's supposed to work.
It doesn't always and it's not uncommon for people to override the system, I discovered my medical records in a colleagues office, it appeared to be the norm in the place I worked at and they have means and ways of bypassing safeguards. (Cliques) I reported it though, which is ironically why I don't work there anymore.

Without evidence there is little you can do, but there's no harm in letting him know next time that should he attempt to access records for purposes other than which they are intended that you won't hesitate to report his actions to the medical council. Best of luck. (Sorry for your friend)

cbyrd

Years ago when I was a student I did work experience in the local hospital. It was in the medical records dept. All you need is someone's name and the rough area where they live and you could pull the index cards and find their file. I worked there one day a week for six months and tbh it's very easy to look up.
This was roughly 24 years ago.
I don't know if the system has changed but I doubt it. There were huge shelves of files on wheels that you moved with a wheel. To find the right shelf you had the patients name and address and you found the medical file number, that gave you the shelf number and off you went, anyone who crossed the door of the hospital was in there. I looked up my own file.
I be worried that he's telling her in front of you. But as he's not her doctor he's not breaking any confidence. I'd let her know that you're there for her if she needs you and butt out. She's a grown up, if she's not upset about it then you really don't have anything else other than you don't like him and you'll just sound petty.
Has your friend said anything about this?

notsoyoungwan

So Bloody Angry wrote: »

I am not randomly throwing accusations around. He said that he went through her medical records and said that it was very easy for him to do that for anyone. The smirk may be what made my skin crawl, but it is what he claimed.

Yes, you are. He claimed he looked up her records. You have decided he also looked up your file, that of those in her family and "anyone in her life". That's a pretty big accusation. You don't like the guy, that's obvious, but you have no proof he did what you're claiming he did.

notsoyoungwan

cbyrd wrote: »

Years ago when I was a student I did work experience in the local hospital. It was in the medical records dept. All you need is someone's name and the rough area where they live and you could pull the index cards and find their file. I worked there one day a week for six months and tbh it's very easy to look up.
This was roughly 24 years ago.
I don't know if the system has changed but I doubt it. There were huge shelves of files on wheels that you moved with a wheel. To find the right shelf you had the patients name and address and you found the medical file number, that gave you the shelf number and off you went, anyone who crossed the door of the hospital was in there. I looked up my own file.
I be worried that he's telling her in front of you. But as he's not her doctor he's not breaking any confidence. I'd let her know that you're there for her if she needs you and butt out. She's a grown up, if she's not upset about it then you really don't have anything else other than you don't like him and you'll just sound petty.
Has your friend said anything about this?

In fairness, you were working in the medical records dept, of course you had ready access to the files! I've been a doctor in various hospitals for 14 years and I have not once set foot in any medical records department. In fact, I don't even know where in the hospital it is. It is admin staff who are in those areas, not the medical staff.

LegacyUser

notsoyoungwan wrote: »

Yes, you are. He claimed he looked up her records. You have decided he also looked up your file, that of those in her family and "anyone in her life". That's a pretty big accusation. You don't like the guy, that's obvious, but you have no proof he did what you're claiming he did.

No, he told me that he looked up hers and that it was easy to look up anyone elses. I work in an area that is clearly decades ahead of the HSE when it comes to data storage and protection. We can only access files that directly relate to what we are working on. They audit the system periodically and people have lots their jobs for having a nose through files not relating directly to their job.

In this case, it is a small, local hospital. I know where the records dept is from driving through there. It is clearly labelled. By the sounds of it though, you can request a file and nobody will be any the wiser? Nobody will double check that the person is actually a patient before they hand the file over?

If nothing else, it seems like a highly inappropriate thing for him to say. And yes, he 100% is a qualified doctor, working in that hospital. I have checked out his registration details. You may say that it was only a smirk but he told me that he did look up her file. She isn't worried about it. She had an infection and ended up there. He does know all about it buthe may well have cross questioned her.

SarahMollie

So Bloody Angry wrote: »

No, he told me that he looked up hers and that it was easy to look up anyone elses. I work in an area that is clearly decades ahead of the HSE when it comes to data storage and protection. We can only access files that directly relate to what we are working on. They audit the system periodically and people have lots their jobs for having a nose through files not relating directly to their job.

In this case, it is a small, local hospital. I know where the records dept is from driving through there. It is clearly labelled. By the sounds of it though, you can request a file and nobody will be any the wiser? Nobody will double check that the person is actually a patient before they hand the file over?

If nothing else, it seems like a highly inappropriate thing for him to say. And yes, he 100% is a qualified doctor, working in that hospital. I have checked out his registration details. You may say that it was only a smirk but he told me that he did look up her file. She isn't worried about it. She had an infection and ended up there. He does know all about it buthe may well have cross questioned her.

Most places have better data protection policies than the HSE, thats really nothing unusual.

Lets accept that he did look up your friends file. You have absolutely nothing to go on other than a smirk to suggest that he's looked up anyone elses files yet you seem convinced. Just because he said its easy to do, doesn't automatically mean he's done it.

You possibly have one strong accusation against him, but if you add in all the other things which are nothing more than suspicions at this point, then you just really undermine your own credibility IMO.

No one is saying that this man sounds like a great catch or anything like that but you also need to stop jumping the gun.

notsoyoungwan

So Bloody Angry wrote: »

No, he told me that he looked up hers and that it was easy to look up anyone elses.

That right there is what he said to you. That in itself is wrong and inappropriate and if he is telling the truth, that is a serious breach.

But the rest of what you're saying is still an accusation, without any proof. You are saying you've no doubt he accessed your records, her parents and anyone connected to her. What are you basing this on? The fact that you don't like him, you find him creepy, you think he's controlling your friend and he smirked at you. That's the basis for your allegations. You clearly don't like the guy, as evidenced by the fact that you went as far as checking out his registration status to check he is who he says he is. This is a complaint that could get labelled vexatious if you don't reign things in, as someone else said you are undermining your own credibility here.


(I'm trying hard not to come across as if I'm defending him or standing up for him just cos he's a fellow doctor, that's not the case st all, but I'm trying to give you an outside perspective here. Your judgement is very clouded by your antipathy towards him)

squonk

It sounds like bravado really. I'm guessing he's bigging himself up in a stupid manner to impress and, if he's controlling, it's probably also exaggerating his own impression of power. It's possible that he's gotten some form of permission from your friend or that he happened across the records if she was in the hospital recently. She shouldn't be happy out though. If I was dating a medical professional who wanted to see my records, by asking permission or otherwise, I wouldn't be happy. That's private information as far as I'm concerned. Obviously people in long term relationships are going to be fully aware of their partner's medial conditions but at six months it's a bit out of order.

Mind you, all he's said is that he's looked up your friend's records. How sure are you that that's even true? He could be just talking more BS there as well. Unless your friend has clearly told you that she's given him permission to look her records up or that he has told her specific things that he wouldn't otherwise know, I'd keep your powder dry here OP. He sounds like a bullshítter and it could all just be a load of bollox on his part. If he's the controlling type I wouldn't put it past him.

the_pen_turner

If I was you I would set up a small trap. You say you have broken bones and appendix out.
In passing mention it that your a similar part of your body is sore and you need to get it checked out. Be vague but give false impression of where the problem is. Like you broke your left leg but your right leg is sore since then.
A week later bring it up again and see if he has any more info than you told him

lifeandtimes

to be honest sounds like all crap too me

if he is a doctor i doubt he would be shouting about accessing peoples records and mentioning it to them, he would be aware of data protection and the amount of trouble he would get in, so telling everyone wouldnt be in his best interest at all.

youve also put 2 and 2 and got 600 all based on your dislike of the guy and his smirk,sounds to me like hes made it up as he knows neither of you are in the profession and know that even if someone did tell on him there would be no record as its not really that possible for him to do it or he didnt do it all

LegacyUser

I understand your frustration and anger. It's difficult to put into words how the actions of one power tripper can affect a person's life and similarly recognise that it's not so much about what may be contained in your records but the act of using it as a way to effect control or threaten your sense of stability, which is obviously working on you op.
It might be wiser to cut your friend loose and leave them to their own devices, if he is a power tripping control freak she will find out in her own time and while you may be concerned for her, that job is not your responsibility.

It is unfortunate that his actions may have affected your confidence in the medical profession but as a young doctor you can be assured that he won't be going far if he continues on the same path and let nature has a way of doing the rest. Go talk to someone if you feel it might help restore your trust in people, it's a difficult thing to regain once it's been lost.

Tipperary Fairy

You are assuming things because you don't like him. You might be right in your interpretation, but regardless, as you don't know AND have no proof whatsoever, reporting to the medical council will go nowhere. If you want to put him in his place, and get anywhere with this, find out what department he works in, and write a letter or email to the data protection officer notifying them of your concerns. When they speak to him about it, it should put some fear into him. Though be prepared for your friend to cut you off if you do take any action on this.

LegacyUser

lifeandtimes wrote: »

to be honest sounds like all crap too me

if he is a doctor i doubt he would be shouting about accessing peoples records and mentioning it to them, he would be aware of data protection and the amount of trouble he would get in, so telling everyone wouldnt be in his best interest at all.

youve also put 2 and 2 and got 600 all based on your dislike of the guy and his smirk,sounds to me like hes made it up as he knows neither of you are in the profession and know that even if someone did tell on him there would be no record as its not really that possible for him to do it or he didnt do it all

Perhaps I should expand. He is a doctor and he 100% did state that he looked up her files. She was surprised and askedhim why. He told her that she is his girlfriend, so of course he will look up her files.

For context, he is not Irish. He did not go to college here, he moved here recently enough. English is his first language, so there was no misunderstanding. He holds the whole Irish healthcare system in contempt and will openly admit to ignoring a lot of rules because they shouldn't applyto him. He feels that Irish GPs, consultants and especially nurses are entirely useless. He is arrogant and controlling.

He would see nothing wrong with anything that he did, laws or no laws. I do know that he has been in trouble at work for his attitude and some minor breaches of protocol.

There may be nothing that I can do, but I have no doubt that he would look up anything that he wanted. He virtually lives in that hospital. He eats there daily, spends his days off there studying unless of course they coincide with his girlfriend's days off.

intheclouds

Highly doubtful he looked up anything.

I write software in this area and while there is a patient administration system (different ones in different hospitals with no centralised system anywhere but some "groupings" have data on the one server, each individual site holds its data separately), this doesnt contain any sensitive information but simply administration data.

We dont currently, in Ireland, have an Electronic Patient Record, so looking up someones medical details would be more than likely a controlled paper based process. Information governance is taken very seriously (ie, only the relevant people looking at relevant information) so I think its highly unlikely he could do this.

If you want to put a stop to his gallop tell him you were thinking about what he said and you have contacted the Data Protection Commissioners as you feel it is a breach of data protection for doctors not associated with a person to be looking up data associated with them.

batmanrobin

OP, it's possible he's picked up on your dislike of him and if he's as controlling as you say, it could have been his way of getting a dig in, a subtle threat maybe.

If he makes a crack like that again you need to call him out on it there and then. He has no cause to check your friend's record. He tried to cover himself by saying he wanted to make sure it wouldn't reoccur, but he's not her doctor and would have no basis for accessing her records.

Say it to him next time, say that it's a massive breach of ethics/the law (?) and (with a smile) tell him he could find himself in trouble if it got back to the relevant people. Your own subtle little threat. You gotta play these people at their own game. He's controlling, thinks he's better than everyone, let him know you've got his number.

My sympathies to your friend. Hopefully she'll see the light.

Sligo1

intheclouds wrote: »

Highly doubtful he looked up anything.

I write software in this area and while there is a patient administration system (different ones in different hospitals with no centralised system anywhere but some "groupings" have data on the one server, each individual site holds its data separately), this doesnt contain any sensitive information but simply administration data.

We dont currently, in Ireland, have an Electronic Patient Record, so looking up someones medical details would be more than likely a controlled paper based process. Information governance is taken very seriously (ie, only the relevant people looking at relevant information) so I think its highly unlikely he could do this.

If you want to put a stop to his gallop tell him you were thinking about what he said and you have contacted the Data Protection Commissioners as you feel it is a breach of data protection for doctors not associated with a person to be looking up data associated with them.

Just to clarify, healthcare workers can most definitely access patient information from hospital databases. While the electronic records would not hold detailed information like the physical medical and nursing noted would, information on blood results, biopsies and specimens can be obtained from the system. For example, if I had a high vaginal swab or vaginal discharge that was sent for laboratory analysis and came back that I had a specific STI... Well that would show on the specific lab system database and he would be able to access that result. X-rays and scans can also be checked on various hospital electronic systems for example Syngo.

FWIW OP, what he has done was incredibly wrong and unprofessional and a breach of confidentiality as he should not be looking up your friends details or lab results (I'm guessing it was the labs he checked). However, you cannot report him for things you are not 100% sure of. And realistically you are not 100% sure he's looked up any of your results. You could possibly report Him for looking up your friends but I don't know how far you would get. You may lose a friend aswell.

Usually the staff would have their own individual passwords to access the labs and perhaps then there is a record of all labs accessed from that specific username and password. But I'm not into forensics so I could be wrong! Lol. But honestly... If you made a complaint i really dont know how far you would get. Let's just hope your friend sees the light eventually and kicks this tosser to the curb.

LegacyUser

intheclouds wrote: »

We dont currently, in Ireland, have an Electronic Patient Record, so looking up someones medical details would be more than likely a controlled paper based process. Information governance is taken very seriously (ie, only the relevant people looking at relevant information) so I think its highly unlikely he could do this.

If you want to put a stop to his gallop tell him you were thinking about what he said and you have contacted the Data Protection Commissioners as you feel it is a breach of data protection for doctors not associated with a person to be looking up data associated with them.

The first statement is incorrect, there are several examples of electronic patient databases listed in the link below.
http://www.lenus.ie/hse/bitstream/10147/99573/1/Overview+of+Mental+Health+Information+Systems+within+the+Republic+of+Ireland.pdf
I have experience of several of them as an agency nurse and they absolutely contain sensitive information, such as assessment summaries, diagnoses, admissions, appointments and consultation notes. These systems are accessed and updated by both administrative and clinical staff.

But I agree with the suggestion to inform your friend's boyfriend that you have mentioned your concerns to the Data Protection Commissioners, and I would go one step further and contact them and the medical council to investigate his claims.

intheclouds

yui678 wrote: »

The first statement is incorrect, there are several examples of electronic patient databases listed in the link below.

Sorry - I should have been clearer - I meant a national EPR. Yes, there are plenty of individual systems out there.

Tipperary Fairy

yui678 wrote: »

But I agree with the suggestion to inform your friend's boyfriend that you have mentioned your concerns to the Data Protection Commissioners, and I would go one step further and contact them and the medical council to investigate his claims.

Yeah, like I said, there's little to no point in contacting the medical council. Their triage stage will ask the doctor for his response to the accusations and he'll of course deny it. Unless there's any witnesses or evidence of wrongdoing in this type of complaint, they can't and won't do anything about it.

Like i also said the OP would probably get furthest with a written complaint to the information management head of the hospital, as he will actually interviewed on the matter, and they're more likely to have records of other similar complaints regarding him, if any exist.

Big Bag of Chips

I'd wonder is it your complaint to make? He told his gf that he looked hers up. She's not bothered. So you can't complain on her behalf. You could however make a complaint based on the fact that he told you that he can look up anyone's. Maybe of they investigated they might see that he has accessed others'? Although having worked in hospitals I know that looking up a record wouldn't necessarily leave a trace, depending on the system. Amending a record would leave it initialed, alright. But if he didn't amend anything then it might now show. It might show he was logged in, but not necessarily what he did.

But I'm not sure that you even want to make a complaint. Do you?

LegacyUser

Well, I spoke to my mother about it. She spoke to my friend's mother who said that he had been over for dinner and discussed my friend's treatment without invitation and implied that her father wasn't getting the treatment that he should be. They are very concerned that he has looked at his files because nobody else knows the details of his treatment.

Corruptedmorals

Report him. It is not permitted to access someone's chart without genuine reason. All medical and clerical staff are trained to abide by that so there's no excuse. Your friend and any of her/your family can access medical records through the freedom of information/data protection acts if they have any concerns over treatment and certainly don't need anyone to do that for them uninvited.

Usually, charts are only kept in the hospital if they are in use/have been in the last year or so. Other charts are sent into off-site storage which makes them much harder to look at on the sly since they have to be requested and there'd be records of that.

Emme

It's may be difficult to prove he has access to any confidential information or looked anything up. However he is behaving in a very unprofessional manner. I certainly would not trust him with any confidental information.

I worked in the admin side of healthcare in a small hospital some years ago. I had access to all patient records and information on a computer system. I did not tell anyone outside my work department about this and only discussed patient records if it was part of my work. I did not search willy nilly for the records of people I knew who happened to be in the hospital. It was none of my business. I only searched for the records of people I was told.

Doctors and other medical personnel have access to a certain amount of information but I would have thought it was related to patients they are involved in treating. Everyone who works in healthcare and has access to patient information is obliged to treat this with the height of confidentiality. This applies across the board from top consultants to junior clerical staff.

There is very little anyone can do about this doctor if there is no proof he is searching for random people's medical information. If he has already been in trouble with his hospital and his team his attitude will catch up with him and he won't get far in medicine.

In the meantime give your friend the website address for Women's Aid www.womensaid.ie

She is the one I would be worried about because this man sounds very bad for her.

Big Bag of Chips

OP, it is unclear what you are asking, or what advice you are looking for, or taking from the thread. Are you looking for advice, or just having a rant?

LegacyUser

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

OP, it is unclear what you are asking, or what advice you are looking for, or taking from the thread. Are you looking for advice, or just having a rant?

I was looking for advice. The medical professionals initially assured me that there was complete confidentiality and no way for my records to be accessed. It was implied that it was all in my head.

Clearly though, there is plenty of scope for breaches of confidentiality. Having looked at the complaints process, I know that the doctors will close ranks and deny all. At this stage, I feel that there is nothing that I can do.

As for my friend, she is a big girl. If and when she decides to open her eyes to the reality, she will have support. Currently she views him as a god, so there is nothing that I can do.

Tipperary Fairy

So Bloody Angry wrote: »

Clearly though, there is plenty of scope for breaches of confidentiality. Having looked at the complaints process, I know that the doctors will close ranks and deny all. At this stage, I feel that there is nothing that I can do.

What complaints process are you referring to? The hospital won't have doctors as part of the initial complaints process at least. And the medical councils initial triage stage has some doctors but far from all.

You sure as hell won't get anywhere without actually doing anything about it. So, yeah, it's unclear as to what you were looking for here.

LegacyUser

Tipperary Fairy wrote: »

Yeah, like I said, there's little to no point in contacting the medical council. Their triage stage will ask the doctor for his response to the accusations and he'll of course deny it. Unless there's any witnesses or evidence of wrongdoing in this type of complaint, they can't and won't do anything about it.

Like i also said the OP would probably get furthest with a written complaint to the information management head of the hospital, as he will actually interviewed on the matter, and they're more likely to have records of other similar complaints regarding him, if any exist.

Tipperary Fairy wrote: »

What complaints process are you referring to? The hospital won't have doctors as part of the initial complaints process at least. And the medical councils initial triage stage has some doctors but far from all.

You sure as hell won't get anywhere without actually doing anything about it. So, yeah, it's unclear as to what you were looking for here.

You clearly told me to forget the medical council. You also said that if I complained to the hospital 'they are more likely to have records' of a possible breach.

I feel entirely hopeless. Either way, I suspect that my right to privacy during a complaint is non existent and that they will reveal my identity to him.

Read back on the first few pages of the thread. An apparent consultant was shooting down any suggestion of it happening. Do you think that it will be any different there?

The only thing that I have learned from this is how quickly the medical profession close ranks.

Merkin

I'm still scratching my head a little at what your basis for a complaint would be. Would you be complaining vicariously on behalf of your friend and her family? Because I think it's been covered to some degree now that you can't go lodging a formal complaint about someone based on conjecture, I.e. That they may or may not be looking up your records.

Look, you clearly dislike this doctor and have a gripe with him so I'd just be staying out of his way and see your friend when she's on her own.

Tipperary Fairy

So Bloody Angry wrote: »

You clearly told me to forget the medical council. You also said that if I complained to the hospital 'they are more likely to have records' of a possible breach.

I feel entirely hopeless. Either way, I suspect that my right to privacy during a complaint is non existent and that they will reveal my identity to him.

Read back on the first few pages of the thread. An apparent consultant was shooting down any suggestion of it happening. Do you think that it will be any different there?

The only thing that I have learned from this is how quickly the medical profession close ranks.

Yeah can make a complaint anonymously but it's less likely to go anywhere as, to begin with its such a small issue, but not being able to contact you for sufficient information and to get witness statements would make it pretty much impossible to investigate.

An apparent consultant said it doesn't happen. a) that may be completely true as per the posters experience b) the poster might be some loon making everything up but why would any of that make any difference to your issue? You say you've learnt that doctors will close ranks, and no doubt that does happen as in all professions, but you have no direct experience of this so again why would this notion stop you? It seems like you were just looking to come on here and have everyone agree that it's terrible and that the doctor should be fired..... even though nobody has reported him.

Like i said, nothing will happen if you don't report it. But maybe it's just easier to say everybody's corrupt and blame everyone else.

notsoyoungwan

So Bloody Angry wrote: »

Read back on the first few pages of the thread. An apparent consultant was shooting down any suggestion of it happening. Do you think that it will be any different there?

The only thing that I have learned from this is how quickly the medical profession close ranks.

So Bloody Angry wrote: »

I was looking for advice. The medical professionals initially assured me that there was complete confidentiality and no way for my records to be accessed. It was implied that it was all in my head

I assume that's me you're referring to. I didn't "assure" you there was "no way" for your records to be accessed- what I told you was that there is no central HSE database (given that's what you in your initial post said that he had said) and told you my experience of being a doctor trying to access notes and files in various hospitals. I also stated not once but twice in my post that if he had looked at your friend's records, as he said he had, then that's a serious breach.

In relation to your accusation that he'd accessed your records and potentially others, I pointed out clearly to you that you were jumping to conclusions based on a smirk- your word, not mine. You simply have no proof, and have the smirk, the fact you don't like him and the fact he's claiming it's easy to look up records. That's it. Others here have also pointed this out to you, it's not just me. I and others attempted to give you perspective. It's interesting, particularly in the context of this discussion, how you misrepresented what I posted.


Your post about your mother's conversation with your friend's mother is further evidence in your eyes. To me, there's two things about it- one is context, what did he seem to know about her father's treatment, and is there an element of Chinese whispers here? I'm not asking you to post about her father's treatment, but rather to reflect on the possibility that when he said he worked st the local hospital your friend might have told him that her Dad attends there for treatment Y for condition X and he might have said (with the enthusiasm and bravado and naïveté of a young doctor) "condition X? He should be getting treatments Y and Z for that" and later mentioned it to her Dad, or maybe she said to her Dad in front of him, "he thinks you should ask about treatment Z etc". I don't know, I'm just saying context is important. Lastly, you've said something to your mother, who said it to your friend's mother, who said something to your mother, who said something back to you and you've posted here.... There's a chain there and it's very likely that the story has evolved a bit from its original telling, not through any malice or deliberate misleading on anyone's part, but that's human nature. The phrase Chinese whispers exists for a reason.

So, to be very clear, lest I be accused of closing ranks again or giving assurances I didn't give, I don't know if this guy did what you claim he did. You have said he said he looked at his girlfriends records- if he's telling the truth, as I said, that's a serious breach. However, he didn't say he looked at anyone else's records. You think he did for reasons that do not really hold weight. I've given some perspective on why I think he probably hasn't done what you think he's done. And now, I'm out. It looks like you've made up your mind and feel somewhat victimised by the medical community. I doubt you'll change your mind, so I won't be engaging any further with you on the matter.