Schools Rugby 2016-2017 (SEE MOD WARNING POST #893)

The Lost Sheep

Leinster schools u18s beat Italy in a pre interpro warm up today. The touring Italian side have already beaten Munster u18 schools and lost to an Ulster u19 side.
http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic/15157.php#.V73v3k0UUdU

Connacht have pulled out of the schools interpros so the remaining provinces are now playing home and away to get 4 games each in the September series.

Connacht have posted their schools league fixtures up on their website while the various B and C cups and leagues in Munster have been published on the Munster website.

The Pheasant2

What's the reasoning behind Connacht dropping out?

The Lost Sheep

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

What's the reasoning behind Connacht dropping out?

Connacht have generally always only used one squad for 18s interpros but competed in both clubs and schools competitions. Before the schools interpros were played in early September and the clubs followed so it meant Connacht played 4/5 weeks of interpros straight. Club interpros have been moved earlier and Connacht the season before last had to play all 6 interpros in the space of 2/3 weeks and felt they couldn't do it so they've pulled out of the schools to concentrate on the club interpro competition

gj090

Pretty weak pack this year for Leinster schools bar Milne and Baird.

Ulster are favourites this year IMO.

Purist98

I was at the game between Leinster schools and Italy 18s. Centres very impressive, in particular Ryan with two tries. The 6 had a very good game. Milne is an incredible prospect and has been training with the 20s this summer. Baird brilliant as always and Hawkshaw did well off the bench

The Lost Sheep

Interpros have started.
Munster schools beat Ulster 18-15.

The Lost Sheep

Munster beat Leinster 8-3 in next of the interpros which was played in Thomond today

FR2

Has the age grade program in Leinster gone backwards recently. There was a time when Leinster losing a game at this level was a major surprise. They won the schools inter-pro for something like 9 years in a row. Now it looks as if the other provinces have the upper hand. Not in the loop so whats the consensus? Why are we losing with the resources at our disposal?

The Lost Sheep

FR2 wrote: »

Has the age grade program in Leinster gone backwards recently. There was a time when Leinster losing a game at this level was a major surprise. They won the schools inter-pro for something like 9 years in a row. Now it looks as if the other provinces have the upper hand. Not in the loop so whats the consensus? Why are we losing with the resources at our disposal?

I don't think it has gone backwards more the other provinces have really upped their game.
Leinster had won the Schools u18 interpros for over a decade straight so not winning the title isn't really an issue as other provinces have caught up to some extent.
Leinster will nearly always dominate based on numbers playing and advantages that brings but sometimes others will be able to compete.

greg090

FR2 wrote: »

Has the age grade program in Leinster gone backwards recently. There was a time when Leinster losing a game at this level was a major surprise. They won the schools inter-pro for something like 9 years in a row. Now it looks as if the other provinces have the upper hand. Not in the loop so whats the consensus? Why are we losing with the resources at our disposal?

bit of both.. leinster have gone backwards and the others have improved.

Leinster are doing a poor job at developing creative/highly skilled backlines at underage level.. they've overcome this using a big pack. This years team does not have a big pack that can boss their opposition.

Leinster are also missing two players who had experience at this level in Charlie Ryan and Harry Byrne. And had Hawkshaw on the bench.

Leinster's inability to play heads up creative rugby at underage level and always playing to a prescribed system. They have a good deal of individual talent in the team but the coaches have done a poor job in recent years translating that to a functional team.

Leinster played against a 14 man Munster for 20 minutes and weren't able to break them down and score a try. 3 points at this level is simply unacceptable. Hopefully they can really improve on that as it is not reflective of the individual talent level of some of the players in that team.

The Lost Sheep

Schools interpros continue and plenty of friendlies on.
Munster can essentially win series with a win over Ulster tomorrow.

Connacht leagues starting next Wednesday...

The Lost Sheep

Leagues starting in Connacht tomorrow.
Limerick city cups also starting

The Lost Sheep

Some leagues starting in Leinster tomorrow.

The Lost Sheep

Anyone been to a game yet?
Interpros now over so those players should be drifting back for the "friendlies" now and the league games

D14Rugby

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Anyone been to a game yet?
Interpros now over so those players should be drifting back for the "friendlies" now and the league games

I know a few results and how games have gone. Gonzaga gave Terenure a bit of a shock last week Nure started very slowly went 17-0 down in opening 15 and paid the price. Two decent teams but nothing amazing Nure probably aiming more for next year. Mary's beat High School minus a few leinster reps (mary's reps that is but you probably guessed that) 20-7 or something like that. Close game. De la Salle beat Conleths and sandford none of them going to go anywhere based on those games. In the league Conleths drew with Skerries again though neither team great. High School put a cricket score on St Pats not sure how you'd look at that pats have lost a lot of big players and high school have 3/4's of a team returning. That's all the results I know.

D14Rugby

De La Salle C'town beat St.Pats 36-7 i think it was 4 trys they scored. Templeogue beat St.Josephs Drogheda not sure how much by. High school also beat St. Josephs 40/50-6. Conleths beat Ashbourne.
I know most wont care about this league but you do get the odd gem from these teams. Frawley, Aspil and Adeolokun come to mind in recent years so i think its good to keep an eye on it

The Lost Sheep

D14Rugby wrote: »

De La Salle C'town beat St.Pats 36-7 i think it was 4 trys they scored. Templeogue beat St.Josephs Drogheda not sure how much by. High school also beat St. Josephs 40/50-6. Conleths beat Ashbourne.
I know most wont care about this league but you do get the odd gem from these teams. Frawley, Aspil and Adeolokun come to mind in recent years so i think its good to keep an eye on it

There will be some schools with heavy base from top club sides every so often so can be some very good teams and very very good players.

Connacht League continued yesterday and today. Jes comfortable winners against the Bish in senior game. Saw most of it and Jes won by 20 or so in the end. Look very good ahead at they aim to defend cup this year. Think they have a good few returning at senior level..

brockboy02

Leinster League games today:

CBC Monkstown vs The Kings Hospital
Cistercian College Roscrea vs CUS
St Andrews College vs St Fintans High School
Castleknock College vs Newbridge College
Gonzaga College vs Wesley College
Presentation College Bray vs St Gerards School

D14Rugby

Templeogue have pulled out of their league. That league is becoming a bit of a joke now between them pulling out and high school putting 10 or so tries a game on their opposition each game

stellenbosch

brockboy02 wrote: »

Leinster League games today:

CBC Monkstown vs The Kings Hospital
Cistercian College Roscrea vs CUS
St Andrews College vs St Fintans High School
Castleknock College vs Newbridge College
Gonzaga College vs Wesley College
Presentation College Bray vs St Gerards School

St Andrews lost to St Fintans 21-20
CBC beat KH 24-11

FrannoFan

Castleknock beat newbridge in seniors

The Lost Sheep

Some results from today....

Michaels 2nds beat NTK Merenskly (South Africa)
De La Salle Churchtown 1sts 26 Blackrock College ???(4ths) 12

Connacht League
Garbally 7 Sligo Grammar 33

Leinster Division 1A League Section A
CBC Monkstown 24 Kings Hospital 11
Cistercian Roscrea 49 CUS 5
St Andrews 20 St Fintans Sutton 21

Leinster Division 1A League Section B
Castleknock 18 Newbridge 12
Gonzaga 22 Wesley 18
Pres Bray 19 Gerards Bray 29

Leinster Division 1B Pool A
St Conleths 15 Mount Temple 7

Leinster Division 2A Midlands
Salesian College 25 CBS Naas 45

brockboy02

St. Michaels JCT defeated Blackrock away 45-8.

Not too surprising given how many players they return from last years team, should be closer contest once the JCT comes around.

brockboy02

Standout players in Leinster schools

Belvedere
Hugh O'Sullivan(Scrumhalf/Fullback)
David Hawkshaw(Outhalf)
Padraic Cagney(Scrumhalf)
Ruadhran Byron(Backrow)
Max Kearney(Backrow)

St. Michaels
Jack Dunne(Lock)
Ryan Baird(Lock)
Harry Byrne(Outhalf)
Scott Penny(Backrow)
David Ryan(Centre)

Blackrock
Charlie Ryan(Lock)
Patrick Patterson(Scrumhalf)
Andrew Murphy(Backrow)
Liam Turner(Centre)
Stephen McLoughlin(Hooker)

Clongowes
Cathal Duff(Prop/Hooker)
Conrad Daly(Scrumhalf)
Sean McCrohan(Backrow)
Ben O'Shea(Centre)
Ronan Hannon(Prop)

Roscrea
Michael Milne(Prop)
Conor Kelly(Fullback/Outhalf)
Josh Wycherely(Prop)
Aaron Murphy(Lock)
Luke Rigney(Prop)

CBC Monkstown
Eoghan Clarke(Prop)
Zach Sattar(Backrow)
James Reynolds(Centre)

Terenure
Sam Dardis(Fullback)
Adam La Grue(Wing)
Harry O'Neill(Hooker)
Rory McGrath(Lock)

Gonzaga
Eoin Barr(Centre/Wing)
Brian O'Donnell(Backrow)

Kings Hospital
Connall Howley(Centre)
Sean Goodburn(Prop)

Newbridge
Patrick Ryan(Backrow)
Ben Howlett(Prop/Hooker)
Cian Prendergast(Lock)
Kevin Kyne(Centre/Wing)

St. Marys
Niall McEniff(Prop)
Richie Bergin(Hooker)
Ronan Watters(Lock)

Kilkenny
Rueben Pim(Backrow)
Josh Miller(Outhalf)
Lloyd Stephens(Lock)

Pres Bray
Elliott Ryan(Scrumhalf)
Eoin O'Gara(Outhalf)
Jack McGrath(Backrow)

St. Andrews
Peter Sullivan(Centre)
Harry McCarthy(Hooker)

CUS
Adam Fleming

Castleknock
Cian Clancy(Backrow)
Adam Corcoran(Backrow)

Sudolife

Belvedere beat Clongowes 13-7 in SCT

O'Sullivan playing 10 and Hawkshaw playing 13

Byron and Kearney on the bench.

brockboy02

Do you have a full teamsheet?

Assume Cagney was at 9.

stellenbosch

brockboy02 wrote: »

Do you have a full teamsheet?

Assume Cagney was at 9.

Couple of results from today

Senior league:

Roscrea 18-CBC 17

Junior league:

CBC 15-Roscrea 11

brockboy02

Kilkenny College 3 vs 20 St Andrews College
St Fintans High School 21 vs 12 The Kings Hospital

D14Rugby

brockboy02 wrote: »

Kilkenny College 3 vs 20 St Andrews College
St Fintans High School 21 vs 12 The Kings Hospital

Knew Fintans would do well but 2 from 2 is better than what I thought. My only worry for them is in the next few years will they still be up there or is this golden year or two they seem to have just a one off

Tarf1234

I think this year will probably be their peak for a while. I just hope they can keep the momentum going and maintain it. It would be great for Northside rugby and schools rugby in general. Would really love to see a Skerries or Fintans step up and start doing really well consistently.

brockboy02

I think they will almost certainly drop off, a lot of their team has benefited from playing a lot of club rugby at both at Clontarf and Suttonians. If they stay a 1A school that will end.

They also have benefitted from a large number of those players getting increased coaching at leinster underage level through leinster clubs.

All of that will be gone if they stay up.

Tarf1234

Agreed they have the benefit of drawing from 2 exceptionally good club sides Sutton 19's and Tarf 18's. Plus players from other Tarf and Sutton teams.

I also think in a way they have benefited from the recession and the collapse of St. Pauls rugby. Many parents who would have traditionally sent their kids to Belvo or Pauls are no longer doing so.

brockboy02

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Agreed they have the benefit of drawing from 2 exceptionally good club sides Sutton 19's and Tarf 18's. Plus players from other Tarf and Sutton teams.

I also think in a way they have benefited from the recession and the collapse of St. Pauls rugby. Many parents who would have traditionally sent their kids to Belvo or Pauls are no longer doing so.

They have a certain academy player in Jack Aungier too, that's probably unlikely to happen again anytime soon.

If Belvedere could get their act together in terms of producing academy level players that would be great, they've been underperforming for awhile now given their numbers.

Although that will likely change with Hughie O'Sullivan and David Hawkshaw, maybe De Jongh and Jennings too.

brockboy02

Senior League 1A Results
Kilkenny College 3 vs 20 St Andrews College
St Fintans High School 21 vs 12 The Kings Hospital
CC Roscrea 18 vs CBC Monkstown 17
Newbridge College 40 vs 7 Presentation College Bray
Wesley College 8 vs 27 Castleknock College

Notable JCT results
Kilkenny defeating Andrews 51-0 away.
Monkstown undefeated beating Roscrea & KH.

Tarf1234

brockboy02 wrote: »

They have a certain academy player in Jack Aungier too, that's probably unlikely to happen again anytime soon.

If Belvedere could get their act together in terms of producing academy level players that would be great, they've been underperforming for awhile now given their numbers.

Although that will likely change with Hughie O'Sullivan and David Hawkshaw, maybe De Jongh and Jennings too.

In truth they haven't really produced a batch since Healy, Keats, O'Malley and O'Donoghue and they're 10 or so years out now. I'd have high hopes for all 4 you mentioned above with maybe the addition of Max Kearney, Hughie being the standout for me. It's almost a disappointment they have a good enough scrumhalf in Pauric Cagney to not have to play Hughie at 9.

brockboy02

Tarf1234 wrote: »

In truth they haven't really produced a batch since Healy, Keats, O'Malley and O'Donoghue and they're 10 or so years out now. I'd have high hopes for all 4 you mentioned above with maybe the addition of Max Kearney, Hughie being the standout for me. It's almost a disappointment they have a good enough scrumhalf in Pauric Cagney to not have to play Hughie at 9.

I'd say Hughie is a certainty to make it as a scrumhalf.

Hawkshaw assuming he keeps progressing you'd assume will too.

I'd be somewhat surprised if Jennings or De Jongh did, but it's possible, although them pulling out of the interpros isn't going to help them with Leinster.

Max Kearney could, will be concerns over his size but he may be talented enough to overcome them.

I really like Cagney, in the top 3 underage scrumhalves in the province for me behind Hughie and Patterson at Rock. All the same age group.

Be interested to see what their team is like this season, especially their backline which is where they have had their best talent.

Assume 9/10 will be Cagney/Hawkshaw, and a back three of Sam Barry, Peter Maher and Hughie.

Speaking of northside rugby, Castleknock look to be getting their act together a bit compared to recent seasons.

Tarf1234

Castleknock have been really disappointing in recent years. I know the pressure of the local GAA club becoming so strong has had an impact but they should really have a robust enough system/setup to survive a bit of pressure from GAA. Would be great to see them turning things around.

brockboy02

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Castleknock have been really disappointing in recent years. I know the pressure of the local GAA club becoming so strong has had an impact but they should really have a robust enough system/setup to survive a bit of pressure from GAA. Would be great to see them turning things around.

ah even belvo are losing players to GAA - Matthew Oliver, Cian O'Sullivan, Rory Clarke, Mark Donnelly & Patrick Smyth.

Oliver and O'Sullivan didn't play SCT rugby due to dublin minors and have graduated.

Clarke/Donnelly/Smyth all played GAA last season instead of SCT rugby, probably the same will happen again. All 3 started for Belvo in their narrow loss to Rock in the JCT final.

Thankfully Hawkshaw is trying to balance both rugby and GAA. Hopefully when the time comes to pick a side he goes with rugby.

brockboy02

I was told Blackrock have recruited 4 players this season, 1 player moving from another smaller school and 3 players from club rugby.

Tarf1234

brockboy02 wrote: »

I was told Blackrock have recruited 4 players this season, 1 player moving from another smaller school and 3 players from club rugby.

Into what year?

Tarf1234

brockboy02 wrote: »

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Castleknock have been really disappointing in recent years. I know the pressure of the local GAA club becoming so strong has had an impact but they should really have a robust enough system/setup to survive a bit of pressure from GAA. Would be great to see them turning things around.

ah even belvo are losing players to GAA - Matthew Oliver, Cian O'Sullivan, Rory Clarke, Mark Donnelly & Patrick Smyth.

Oliver and O'Sullivan didn't play SCT rugby due to dublin minors and have graduated.

Clarke/Donnelly/Smyth all played GAA last season instead of SCT rugby, probably the same will happen again. All 3 started for Belvo in their narrow loss to Rock in the JCT final.

Thankfully Hawkshaw is trying to balance both rugby and GAA. Hopefully when the time comes to pick a side he goes with rugby.

Absolutely Belvo have had a tough time of it against GAA recently but have had their best 2 years for a good while over the last 2 years.

brockboy02

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Into what year?

not sure 5th I think

brockboy02

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Absolutely Belvo have had a tough time of it against GAA recently but have had their best 2 years for a good while over the last 2 years.

yeah, they'd be even stronger if they could win those battles with GAA.

Tarf1234

brockboy02 wrote: »

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Absolutely Belvo have had a tough time of it against GAA recently but have had their best 2 years for a good while over the last 2 years.

yeah, they'd be even stronger if they could win those battles with GAA.

It's a real pity because they've worked hard to develop what is now a really good set up. For some people you will never win the battle against GAA.

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

It's a real pity because they've worked hard to develop what is now a really good set up. For some people you will never win the battle against GAA.

Yeah never and would be easier in schools like Belvo than 80% of the country

Have many people seen games so far this year?
Saw Michaels a few weeks ago but all other games have been in Connacht leagues..

brockboy02

Michaels will be a lot weaker this year minus - Dowling, Kelleher and Fitzpatrick in the pack.

Should have a good backline with Byrne & Ryan etc.

FrannoFan

Historically(and I mean 100 years historically) Castleknock and belvo used to be the big rival to blackrock. I think the continued improvement in Dublin GAA as well as the need to be increasingly professional from early doors has hurt them more than most. Every kid nowadays seems to be on some sort of Dublin panel or have some championship final it other every weekend in a 13 month season.
Hard to compete when keep losing your best athletes and playing against lads who prioritise rugby

D14Rugby

FrannoFan wrote: »

Historically(and I mean 100 years historically) Castleknock and belvo used to be the big rival to blackrock. I think the continued improvement in Dublin GAA as well as the need to be increasingly professional from early doors has hurt them more than most. Every kid nowadays seems to be on some sort of Dublin panel or have some championship final it other every weekend in a 13 month season.
Hard to compete when keep losing your best athletes and playing against lads who prioritise rugby

Castleknock haven't really done anything since the 60's when was the GAA club founded? I think nearly all day schools are losing more and more players to GAA now with Belvo, Terenure and Castleknock being some of the worst hit. Thing is though if they prefer GAA you gotta let then go with what they like more its a shame but you can't ban them from playing GAA of they will end up resenting it (I know my dad and a lot of his pals hate GAA now cause their clubs tried to stop them playing rugby). Its all about getting the balance right as the sports actually compliment each other nicely(eg Hawkshaw)

Islander13

FrannoFan wrote: »

Historically(and I mean 100 years historically) Castleknock and belvo used to be the big rival to blackrock. I think the continued improvement in Dublin GAA as well as the need to be increasingly professional from early doors has hurt them more than most. Every kid nowadays seems to be on some sort of Dublin panel or have some championship final it other every weekend in a 13 month season.
Hard to compete when keep losing your best athletes and playing against lads who prioritise rugby

I take your point on Castleknock being historical but Belvedere remain second on the honour role overall in both senior and junior cups. Also, given they've won three out of the last ten Senior Cups they seem to be managing the resurgence in Dublin GAA just fine. Its Marys and Terenure that seem to be increasingly uncompetitive from my vantage point..

D14Rugby

Islander13 wrote: »

I take your point on Castleknock being historical but Belvedere remain second on the honour role overall in both senior and junior cups. Also, given they've won three out of the last ten Senior Cups they seem to be managing the resurgence in Dublin GAA just fine. Its Marys and Terenure that seem to be increasingly uncompetitive from my vantage point..

Terenure I think have suffered because of the junior school focusing on GAA more than rugby so that closing may be a blessing in disguise. Also I think they're now trying to implement a whole school style on play as opposed to varying team to team so that might help too. Mary's though I think could drop into the league soon.

brockboy02

So far St. Michaels have played 62 games this season at all levels, and lost only 8.