Another thread which disagrees with the status quo closed without explanation

hatrickpatrick

The thread in question is here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=100780165

The thread literally breaks absolutely no site rules whatsoever. It most certainly shouldn't have been locked. It possible belongs more on AH than on Cafe, but in that case it should have simply been moved.

I made a thread not too long ago about how, even as a leftie myself, Boards and AH / PC in particular were being widely derided as a heavily censored "safe space" for prevailing "liberal" (I use the word apprehensively as I no longer agree that it is accurate) viewpoints. This is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about. No mod comment to even explain the thinking behind locking the thread, just "this doesn't suit the prevailing narrative, so let's not discuss it at all".

If Boards was openly admitting to only catering to certain ideologies, there'd be no problem with this. But while Boards actively denies bias in this area, thread lockings like these are just ridiculous and glaringly obvious.

What's so terrible about people of different viewpoints having an honest and civilised discussion...?

maregal

I too thought it was weird that the thread was locked without explanation. I was hopeful that Boards' harsh moderation policies would soften up with the recent change in Community Manager but sadly that doesn't seem to be the case. I'd appreciate if Boards would just be honest and admit that the site is designed to be a safe space for Leftists where nobody gets their feelings hurt. At least then the rest of us wouldn't waste time trying to have constructive discussions here and could move on elsewhere.

hatrickpatrick

maregal wrote: »

I too thought it was weird that the thread was locked without explanation.

It's becoming less and less weird, which is a travesty. Five or six years ago it would have surprised me.

Zaph

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

No mod comment to even explain the thinking behind locking the thread

I've just posted in the Cafe mods' forum asking that when they close a thread in future they include a brief note explaining why it was closed. It's good practice and hopefully should save a lot of confusion and/or disgruntledness.

dudara

I don't think there's any thing sinister at foot here, I think it's far more likely that the mods closed it while they figure out what to do with it. However, I do agree with Zaph that a note to that effect should be present.

hatrickpatrick

dudara wrote: »

I don't think there's any thing sinister at foot here, I think it's far more likely that the mods closed it while they figure out what to do with it. However, I do agree with Zaph that a note to that effect should be present.

How do you mean "what to do with it"...?

dudara

Sometimes mods need to assess if the thread should be moved to another forum, whether it should be closed permanently etc.

If they want to move to another forum, they sometimes consult with the mods of that forum if they are willing to accept the thread. To be fair, there's no point in moving it straight to another forum if it's only going to get closed there, or moved on again.

In the meantime, it's often prudent to temp close the thread in order to stop it going off the rails, while a decision is being made.

Chijj

Dudara,

As a prominent member of the discussion board perhaps you can shed some light on to why it was closed rather than stating possible reasons?

dudara

It's not my place to do so. The Politics Cafe mods closed it. If you want feedback on why it was closed, the first thing to do is contact the relevant mods, and failing that, the relevant CMods.

Chijj

Very political answer.

This is the feedback forum right ?

dudara

Yes, it's also not the telepathy forum. The PC mods are the ones who can explain why they took the action. Anything I say would be guessing on my part.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

LoLth

a note has been added by the mods stating that it is closed for mod review.

I'm closing this thread until a decision has been made one way or another. until then, anything posted here is speculation.

re-opening this thread as the Politics Cafe thread has been re-opened. ( I opened the thread at the request of the mod/cmod ).

K-9

I've to put my hands up a bit here as I wasn't about much yesterday when the mod looked at the reported post and asked what to do in the cafe mod forum. There's usually a few mods about there to chip in, but with holidays and the political silly season and stuff, only 1 mod was about.

Normally C-mods try and not interfere too much in day to day modding, but that's one I could have advised to leave open and see how it went.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Cabaal

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

At a wild guess,
The thread was reported by other users....perhaps more then once?

If a post/thread is reported its sent to all mods/cmods of the the forum.

Zaph

Cabaal wrote: »

At a wild guess,
The thread was reported by other users....perhaps more then once?

And also this thread was started here. Had we ignored this thread we would have been accused of covering stuff up, not giving a crap or something else equally ridiculous. Sometimes you just can't win around here.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

K-9

The mod saw the reported post and asked what to do with it, nobody was about to advise to keep it open. If people want to make into some Trumpian conspiracy theory, they will.

_Tombstone_

Zaph wrote: »

I've just posted in the Cafe mods' forum asking that when they close a thread in future they include a brief note explaining why it was closed. It's good practice and hopefully should save a lot of confusion and/or disgruntledness.

Why did it take a million posts (slight exaggeration) in here about threads being closed and no reason given what for before you got round to leaving direction to leave a note.......actually I just noticed this was in one specific forum you've done this, is their not some mod forum you can do it in since it happens all over the place, I actually couldn't care less other than I'm sick of reading about people giving out about the same thing for years when it's so easily fixed.

K-9 wrote: »

The mod saw the reported post and asked what to do with it, nobody was about to advise to keep it open. If people want to make into some Trumpian conspiracy theory, they will.

which of those posts was reported and what was the reason?

Zaph

_Tombstone_ wrote: »

Why did it take a million posts (slight exaggeration) in here about threads being closed and no reason given what for before you got round to leaving direction to leave a note

A lot of stuff gets posted in this forum and it's not possible to read everything. It just so happened that in this case I spotted the thread early and before any other admin had posted in it so I took the action I felt was necessary.

_Tombstone_ wrote: »

actually I just noticed this was in one specific forum you've done this, is their not some mod forum you can do it in since it happens all over the place

Yes there is, and it's something that has been mentioned there previously. However I have no way of knowing which mods read the mod forum and which don't, so posting in the Cafe mods' forum at least guarantees it gets to its target audience directly.

_Tombstone_ wrote: »

I actually couldn't care less other than I'm sick of reading about people giving out about the same thing for years when it's so easily fixed.

I agree, it is easily fixed and as I mentioned earlier it's good practice to add a post to any threads that are being closed. In this instance the mod thought they had but was mistaken. However there are over 600 mods on the site, and they're all volunteers. While we can recommend better ways of doing things which would, for instance, avoid threads like this, we can't hold a gun to their heads and make them add closing posts.

K-9

The mod made a judgment call as all mods do. I don't want to get into a witch hunt over it as their judgment is very good and we are all allowed to make a mistake. It often isn't an exact science or there is no right or wrong answer. It's a volunteer job after all, not a Dail inquiry.

I'm sure lessons will be learned and will be added to their experience going forward.*


* That's tongue in cheek btw.

Esel

Unless post(s) have been deleted, I can't see anything really objectionable, never mind worthy of a thread lock - unless someone had the inside track when reporting.

Zaph

Esel wrote: »

Unless post(s) have been deleted, I can't see anything really objectionable, never mind worthy of a thread lock - unless someone had the inside track when reporting.

dudara mentioned earlier in this thread (quoted below) a common reason why threads can be locked. In this instance this is exactly what happened and, as has already been said a number of times, had there been a closing post to that effect this thread could probably have been avoided. All we can do is try to ensure that the same mistake is not repeated.

dudara wrote: »

Sometimes mods need to assess if the thread should be moved to another forum, whether it should be closed permanently etc.

If they want to move to another forum, they sometimes consult with the mods of that forum if they are willing to accept the thread. To be fair, there's no point in moving it straight to another forum if it's only going to get closed there, or moved on again.

In the meantime, it's often prudent to temp close the thread in order to stop it going off the rails, while a decision is being made.

Tom Dunne

Here's my cut on it - a busy mod, sees a thread, is in a rush and wants to discuss it further with other mods. Mod decides to lock thread pending further discussion, for no other reason. Standard mod practice in busier forums.

Time passes, less mods around presumably due to the good weather and we find ourselves at this thread.

I get it, honestly, I get it. I can see how this series of unfortunate events could be misinterpreted as a conspiracy to stifle debate on the hypocrisy of lefties. But I hope you accept my word that there is no agenda, there is no conspiracy, in this case, it was simply a series of unfortunate events.

That thread is now back open, this thread has now a limited lifespan.

KERSPLAT!

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Here's my cut on it - a busy mod, sees a thread, is in a rush and wants to discuss it further with other mods. Mod decides to lock thread pending further discussion, for no other reason. Standard mod practice in busier forums.

Time passes, less mods around presumably due to the good weather and we find ourselves at this thread.

I get it, honestly, I get it. I can see how this series of unfortunate events could be misinterpreted as a conspiracy to stifle debate on the hypocrisy of lefties. But I hope you accept my word that there is no agenda, there is no conspiracy, in this case, it was simply a series of unfortunate events.

That thread is now back open, this thread has now a limited lifespan.

I suppose the question being asked is, what in that thread caused the mod to lock it at all?

Timberrrrrrrr

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

I suppose the question being asked is, what in that thread caused the mod to lock it at all?

This seems to be it in a nutshell, there were 5 posts in the thread (I think) at the time of the lock and non seemed worthy of any action. Were there deleted posts that made the mod lock it maybe or was it just simply over exuberance on the mods behalf (not mocking the mod, we all have our moments )

Tom Dunne

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

I suppose the question being asked is, what in that thread caused the mod to lock it at all?

Yeah, fair point. Leave it with me.

Look, I am trying to be upfront here. I genuinely believe it was just one of those things that yes, could be misconstrued and I acknowledge that. But to the best of my knowledge, there is no imposed left-wing liberal agenda on moderators, cmods nor admins.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Tom Dunne

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

No, it didn't. I won't repeat myself again.

NyOmnishambles

Zaph wrote: »

we can't hold a gun to their heads and make them add closing posts.

No but when they finally get around to doing the new site layout and functionality they could enforce a rule that when the closed thread option is selected a closing post must be made

Wouldn't be onerous on the Mods and would resolve a whole heap of people's grievances with Modding before they happen

K-9

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

I suppose the question being asked is, what in that thread caused the mod to lock it at all?

I'd say because, IIRC, the reported post was saying it wasn't suitable for the cafe. Mod asks other mods what to do, nobody is about, I should have advised to leave it open, mod forgets to leave note (happened to us all at some stage), somebody starts feedback thread, admins and c-mods get involved, thread reopened, people see confirmation bias of the op because it is a trigger.

Lesson to learn is sometimes the best thing to do is nothing and let a thread develop.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Tom Dunne

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Because the tinfoil-hat brigade would rather believe there's a conspiracy rather than a more mundane explanation.

Now, it's nearly time for Mother's footrub, so as promised, I'll be closing this thread when the regulars get their final dig in.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

K-9

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

That has been explained 3 or 4 times to you.

hatrickpatrick

My argument here is that the thread was completely innocuous, and any mod looking at it should have said "shouldn't have been reported, case closed". It broke no rules and violated no aspect of the charter, and I can't imagine any reason for it being reported other than "we don't want a mens' rights circlejerk". The problem with that is that there are countless other circlejerks which are allowed on Boards no questions asked, and it's when only a handful of subjects or topics of conversation are flagged as "potentially problematic" and therefore worthy of pre-emptive thread closure, that one arrives at a conclusion of either (a) Boards is hypersensitive to certain subjects and doesn't want them discussed lest "objectionable" viewpoints be aired, or (b) Boards is hypersensitive to controversy and doesn't want heated debate of any kind.

The many Sinn Fein threads over the years easily constitute a hyperbolic load of hyperbollocks ( ), but you don't see them being locked after just 5 posts. Same with Israel/Palestine threads, same with water charges threads, same with threads about crooked politicians, etc. But once a thread is about a sacred cow tenet of the social justice movement - abortion, feminism, immigration, religion to name just a few - it tends to be kept very strictly under the thumb of the mods, if it's even allowed at all. God forbid anyone have a lively and heated discussion on these subjects, mirite?

You must admit that it's become very difficult to continue to believe that Boards does not engage in ideological policing at least to some extent. This wasn't always the case. If I could pinpoint when it began, I think I'd point to somewhere in the region of late 2011 - mid 2012. It has accelerated wildly in the last two years, to the point at which anything remotely controversial tends to get suppressed or neutered as quickly as possible.

Tom Dunne

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Well let's do that then in a different thread.

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Ah yes, some things never change - the old "circle the wagons" chestnut. If admins didn't respond, we are ignoring the issue. If we do respond, we are circling the wagons. At least have the originality of thought to accuse us of something more relevant.

Right, we are done here, the thread is open, this is no longer an issue as far as I am concerned. Mother is waiting.