Deadbaiting questions.

thefisherbuy

Hi lads,

Just wondering I've started deadbaiting, and I'm getting used to it, So I have a few questions.

1. Was fishing a few days ago, now I was just about to move and seen no activity on the float no bobbing etc, Reeling it in and there's a pike! this happened twice, What is the problem?
2. I've got my first alarm indicator a E.T MkII ultimate backbiter, will this prevent above?
3. also my float isn't sitting right on it's side, what is wrong?

Thanks.

pheasant tail

thefisherbuy wrote: »

Hi lads,

Just wondering I've started deadbaiting, and I'm getting used to it, So I have a few questions.

1. Was fishing a few days ago, now I was just about to move and seen no activity on the float no bobbing etc, Reeling it in and there's a pike! this happened twice, What is the problem?
2. I've got my first alarm indicator a E.T MkII ultimate backbiter, will this prevent above?
3. also my float isn't sitting right on it's side, what is wrong?

Thanks.

Don't depend on the backbiter if your using the float, should be no need for it. That's just the way it goes, it was just that bit of movement that sparked a reaction, very often the case in summer piking when their not properly on the feed or a territorial hit. That's why it's a good idea, especially when ledgering, to say bring it in a few yards or give it a few twitches. I'd say we'd all be surprised if we could see after a day's fishing the amount of pike that actually look at or follow our lures and baits but never actually end up taking it

pheasant tail

Also OP, if your only starting out at this type of fishing, be especially careful during the summer to hit the fish nearly as soon as they take it as they'll end up your rig down them very quick. Sadly a common problem I've seen at far too many pike competitions around the country, lads leaving the fish far to long all in the name of money or points in a league

thefisherbuy

Thanks for the reply,
I know alot of people go off in deadbait during the summer and start it in the winter but i just want to get to grips! I've all the correct equipment.. fish unhooking net etc..

also this happened so was fishing. Had the float out all of a sudden the float crashes give it a few secounds reel the line and strike but nothing ?

Thanks.

pheasant tail

As in crashes I assume u mean it just went under, fish may have just taken the bait and dropped it or may only have had the top of the bait in the mouth and you pulled it out, happens everyone, very often just a small fish

thefisherbuy

Ah thanks,

Also using Semi barbless traces.. should I strike as soon as the float goes down? I actually have only got 1 fish from dead baiting and lost 1. The hook's weren't just about in so easy unhooking.

pheasant tail

People will prob have different opinions but when I use the float I'd be using a fairly small bait and at this time of year yes, I wouldn't give them too much time at all. You'd have more leeway during the colder months though but it's trial and error, obviously if your missing a lot of fish have a re-think then but don't overthink it, no matter what ya do you'll miss some fish

Reedsie

thefisherbuy wrote: »

Hi lads,

Just wondering I've started deadbaiting, and I'm getting used to it, So I have a few questions.

1. Was fishing a few days ago, now I was just about to move and seen no activity on the float no bobbing etc, Reeling it in and there's a pike! this happened twice, What is the problem?
2. I've got my first alarm indicator a E.T MkII ultimate backbiter, will this prevent above?
3. also my float isn't sitting right on it's side, what is wrong?

Thanks.

Your float rig needs work. Hard to tell what needs adjustment without seeing it.


The alarm is a good purchase and I'd suggest forgetting the float for now and use the alarm to a ledger rig, something like this:



The weaklink to the lead can be mono or a cheap as chips fishing clip. Some use paperclips (but I found I lost too many leads). You need a weak link so that if the lead gets snagged that link will be the first thing to break when you pull and you'll get the rest of the rig back.


Use a 3oz lead and tighten up to it after casting. Clip the tight line into the alarm and it's hard to go wrong. Any movement of the bait will be indicated on the alarm. The theory is that the pike will pick up the bait and swim off with it. The lead will stay put so line will be pulled from the reel, which in turn will cause the alarm to sound.

thefisherbuy

Reedsie wrote: »

Your float rig needs work. Hard to tell what needs adjustment without seeing it.


The alarm is a good purchase and I'd suggest forgetting the float for now and use the alarm to a ledger rig, something like this:



The weaklink to the lead can be mono or a cheap as chips fishing clip. Some use paperclips (but I found I lost too many leads). You need a weak link so that if the lead gets snagged that link will be the first thing to break when you pull and you'll get the rest of the rig back.


Use a 3oz lead and tighten up to it after casting. Clip the tight line into the alarm and it's hard to go wrong. Any movement of the bait will be indicated on the alarm. The theory is that the pike will pick up the bait and swim off with it. The lead will stay put so line will be pulled from the reel, which in turn will cause the alarm to sound.

Many thanks for the rig,

Just a question I have a few of them weight's so all i Do is get a swivel and put it on the mainline, Tie on the weight with 6lb line or so is that correct I'll give it a go!

Thanks.

thefisherbuy

Also Ive got some pop ups or poppers to pop up the bait's When im fishing the deadbait is sinking down the bottom but sometimes it has weed on it so I bought them to pop up the bait, anyone have like a simple rig, I was looking up online and it seemed kinda technical.. :p

fret_wimp2

thefisherbuy wrote: »

Also Ive got some pop ups or poppers to pop up the bait's When im fishing the deadbait is sinking down the bottom but sometimes it has weed on it so I bought them to pop up the bait, anyone have like a simple rig, I was looking up online and it seemed kinda technical.. :p

Popups although not essential are very very useful.
In a lot of irish rivers where the water is deep & slow the silt on the bottom is super fine, almost the same density as water but with zero visibility.

In this case a popup will lift your bait out of this murk and into a more visible position.

thefisherbuy

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

Popups although not essential are very very useful.
In a lot of irish rivers where the water is deep & slow the silt on the bottom is super fine, almost the same density as water but with zero visibility.

In this case a popup will lift your bait out of this murk and into a more visible position.

I am planning on fishing on the river too, The river I'm on about is Slow deep and there's some roach in it, What Rig would you use like a popup?

fret_wimp2

rig would be almost identical to what readsie recommended, but with an added popup.

Popup is just a boyant ball on a bit of short line. I usually put a little clip on the end of the line.
Popup can be tied to the line or attached to the fish via a hook but i preferr to thread this line through the mouth of the baitfish and out through the gill and clip it onto one of the trebble hoooks.

ive found this way to give the best presentation.

Apologies for the rubbish drawing but i dont have any pictures.

thefisherbuy

A many thanks for that, just a one wee question, Do you tie a knot on the trebles? I see on your picture it's on the first one would i just use like 6lb line again?

fret_wimp2

no knot. the trebbles are kind of "wound" onto the trebble. Il see i if i can take a picture later on.

Ive tried knots and crimps but none are as stable as winding the hooks on.

In english, its like:
1. thread the wire through the eye of the trebble.
2. Bring it round the bend in the hook.
3. Wind the wire around the shank(and the wire) 8+ times up to the eye.
4. bring the wire out the eye again.

below is the best image i can find online to explain it. note in this picture they are using mono and there are only 3 winds, but the principal is the same.

When done correctly, its rock solid, the wire will break before the hook comes off.

thefisherbuy

Many thanks Again!

Ill try this I suppose you prefer wire over mono when doing this yea? I'll Have to get some wire!

fret_wimp2

thefisherbuy wrote: »

Many thanks Again!

Ill try this I suppose you prefer wire over mono when doing this yea? I'll Have to get some wire!

For pike fishing wire is an absolute must. Have you seen their teeth, they will bite through mono easily. They only have to nick it, and then one good pull/jump and the mono will snap.

Plastic coated multi core wire cant be bitten through as easily. Ive used mustard 7 strand, fox carboflex 20lb and am about to try savage gear 47 strand this weekend.

There are lots of videos on youtube for making your own deadbaiting trace. Most advocate using crimps however. try to find one that ties/winds the hooks on as i have illustrated.

FYI - you can buy traces but ive found them all complete rubbish. They will fail you sooner or later.
There's a chap called Joey in Viking tackle in Bray who ties a brilliant trace and if has some time might tie one up for you.

thefisherbuy

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

For pike fishing wire is an absolute must. Have you seen their teeth, they will bite through mono easily. They only have to nick it, and then one good pull/jump and the mono will snap.

Plastic coated multi core wire cant be bitten through as easily. Ive used mustard 7 strand, fox carboflex 20lb and am about to try savage gear 47 strand this weekend.

Yea just coped on there! Ill get some wire over the weekend!

fret_wimp2

thefisherbuy wrote: »

Yea just coped on there! Ill get some wire over the weekend!

IF your fairly new to pike and deadbaiting, make sure to have the proper tools and handle the fish with care, for your sake and more importantly, the fishes safety.

For deadbaiting that means at a minimum a bite indicator so you don't let the pike swallow hooks too deeply, a good forceps and a pliers in case you need to cut the hooks to get them out.

Watch a video on safely handling pike also. River piker on YouTube had a good one.

thefisherbuy

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

IF your fairly new to pike and deadbaiting, make sure to have the proper tools and handle the fish with care, for your sake and more importantly, the fishes safety.

For deadbaiting that means at a minimum a bite indicator so you don't let the pike swallow hooks too deeply, a good forceps and a pliers in case you need to cut the hooks to get them out.

Watch a video on safely handling pike also. River piker on YouTube had a good one.

Yea I've been fishing for them for ages mostly lure fishing, also I didn't know that the pike would bite off the popper because I didn't think the popup would be get bitten off, because I used to think that the popup would go into the deadbaits mouth and was attached the the actual deadbait trace.
I have started holding the pike by the gills I'm getting more comfortable around pike now..

thefisherbuy

Reedsie wrote: »

Your float rig needs work. Hard to tell what needs adjustment without seeing it.


The alarm is a good purchase and I'd suggest forgetting the float for now and use the alarm to a ledger rig, something like this:



The weaklink to the lead can be mono or a cheap as chips fishing clip. Some use paperclips (but I found I lost too many leads). You need a weak link so that if the lead gets snagged that link will be the first thing to break when you pull and you'll get the rest of the rig back.


Use a 3oz lead and tighten up to it after casting. Clip the tight line into the alarm and it's hard to go wrong. Any movement of the bait will be indicated on the alarm. The theory is that the pike will pick up the bait and swim off with it. The lead will stay put so line will be pulled from the reel, which in turn will cause the alarm to sound.

Would I be able to use this setup in a river? I've seen this setup before somewhere!

Thanks

fret_wimp2

thefisherbuy wrote: »

Would I be able to use this setup in a river? I've seen this setup before somewhere!

Thanks

depends on the river/part of the river.
In a deeper fairly slow flowing part, yea, it will work well.
In fast flowing water, not so much.

Reedsie

Trace wire is a must thefisherbuy! You definitely should not be pike fishing without it.


Here are a few more images of rigs:

Ledger rig

Popped up rig




Here's some good reading from the PAC (Pike Anglers Club) GB:

Pike Fishing Fundamentals
Trace & Rig Basics
Safe Pike Rigs
Handling Pike
Summer Pike Fishing

thefisherbuy

Reedsie wrote: »

Trace wire is a must thefisherbuy! You definitely should not be pike fishing without it.


Here are a few more images of rigs:

Ledger rig

Popped up rig




Here's some good reading from the PAC (Pike Anglers Club) GB:

Pike Fishing Fundamentals
Trace & Rig Basics
Safe Pike Rigs
Handling Pike
Summer Pike Fishing

Thanks for the links,

I'm fishing with traces all the time! The popups I've got are prowla popups these come in stems, has anyone use these?

kildare lad

if i was fishing a slow river, why not try wobbling a roach r a smelt you'll cover more ground... you would be surprised how near u are to a pike on a river, ive often caught pike one or two feet out from the bank.

thefisherbuy

Was just back from the river nothing but I learned a few things,

The set up was a normal deadbaid trace semi barbless
Bead to protect knot from the weight
Heavy ledger or weight on a swivel

I'm going to the lake and using this setup good idea?
Basically the same as reddie shown!

Reedsie

thefisherbuy wrote: »

Was just back from the river nothing but I learned a few things,

The set up was a normal deadbaid trace semi barbless
Bead to protect knot from the weight
Heavy ledger or weight on a swivel

I'm going to the lake and using this setup good idea?
Basically the same as reddie shown!

It's probably the most commonly used deadbait rig so you'll have no issues with it if you set it up correctly. Make sure you reel in tight to the lead after casting. Set the alarm clip to the tight line and if there's any movement of the bait you will know.

thefisherbuy

Reedsie wrote: »

It's probably the most commonly used deadbait rig so you'll have no issues with it if you set it up correctly. Make sure you reel in tight to the lead after casting. Set the alarm clip to the tight line and if there's any movement of the bait you will know.

Thanks,

Just wondering with this alarm it's a backbiter and now what I witnessed is that your supposed to keep your bale open but when I did that it didn't work right, so what I did is I put the tension very light (so if a pike did take the deadbait it would be able to take line while the alarm is sounding) reeled in where the line is tight and I could feel the weight.. Not sure if ye lads have used an alarm like this and would it work ok?


Thanks.

Reedsie

thefisherbuy wrote: »

Thanks,

Just wondering with this alarm it's a backbiter and now what I witnessed is that your supposed to keep your bale open but when I did that it didn't work right,

Why didn't it work right? What happened when you tried it?

thefisherbuy

Reedsie wrote: »

Why didn't it work right? What happened when you tried it?

The line just kept coming out, I'll try at the lake tomorrow! Also it's oldish 20pb mono I was told it was better than braid.

Thanks.

Reedsie

thefisherbuy wrote: »

The line just kept coming out, I'll try at the lake tomorrow! Also it's oldish 20pb mono I was told it was better than braid.

Thanks.

Mono is fine. If it's old you might want to replace it but that's another issue.


The line shouldn't keep coming out. Cast out first. Put your rod on the rests and reel in until you feel it tighten up to the lead. With it tight clip the line into the alarm and open the bail arm, so it looks like this:

thefisherbuy

Reedsie wrote: »

Mono is fine. If it's old you might want to replace it but that's another issue.


The line shouldn't keep coming out. Cast out first. Put your rod on the rests and reel in until you feel it tighten up to the lead. With it tight clip the line into the alarm and open the bail arm, so it looks like this:

I'll try that thanks again,

The alarm I have is that the line catcher doesn't roatate liek the picture I'll try and the lake, tomorrow I'll post an update

Many thanks for the all help.

kildare lad

thefisherbuy wrote: »

The line just kept coming out, I'll try at the lake tomorrow! Also it's oldish 20pb mono I was told it was better than braid.

Thanks.

dump ur line, buy a new spool of line at least 15lb mono its only 5 or 6 euro.. if ur new to deadbaiting go heavier,i used 50lb braid, some think its overkill i dont, most pikers i know use braid at at least 30lb breaking strain. When i hook a pike i no the lines not gonna snap. Itll cut thru weed and lily pads no problem. the last thing you want is a pike swimming round with ur trace hanging out of its mouth!!

thefisherbuy

kildare lad wrote: »

dump ur line, buy a new spool of line at least 15lb mono its only 5 or 6 euro.. if ur new to deadbaiting go heavier,i used 50lb braid, some think its overkill i dont, most pikers i know use braid at at least 30lb breaking strain. When i hook a pike i no the lines not gonna snap. Itll cut thru weed and lily pads no problem. the last thing you want is a pike swimming round with ur trace hanging out of its mouth!!

To be honest it's I've never used it, it was just around on a new spool.. But I've herd mono gets worse over the years, I'll try geting new line.

Reedsie

thefisherbuy wrote: »

I'll try that thanks again,

The alarm I have is that the line catcher doesn't roatate liek the picture I'll try and the lake, tomorrow I'll post an update

That wouldn't matter. There's a video here of your alarm, it might be worth a watch.

thefisherbuy

Reedsie wrote: »

That wouldn't matter. There's a video here of your alarm, it might be worth a watch.

Worked fine today at the lake! Had 7 all on lures realised obviously, had 2 runs in the deadbait, I lost both and I had one on for a few seconds but jumped and went out. Also I lost the whole rig with ledger on weed as the lake I fish is full of ground weed, nearly every time I reeled in to move the deadbait was full of weed. I didn't have the popups with me stupid I know I just forget em!

Thanks.

twin_beacon

how do people find the rear "drop off" style bite alarms? one of my mates has one, I was never fond of it. I use the alarms that are in front of the reel, as I used them for carp and tench as well.

kildare lad

i wouldnt mind getting them.. there quite expensive tho, theres a fella in england that makes them , billys back biters there called. you have ur back biter and alarm as one unit. i was talkin to a fella that has one and he reckons they're the buisness!!

thefisherbuy

Any solutions lads to my last post ?

Don't want to be loosing rigs!

fret_wimp2

thefisherbuy wrote: »

Any solutions lads to my last post ?

Don't want to be loosing rigs!

If you fish in weed, You'l loose gear, its Parr for the course.
You can try and increase your chance of getting gear back by:

-Using stronger braid. River piker uses 80lb to increase the chance of getting his pricy lures back.

-use stronger traces to go with your stronger braid.

-use finer trebble hooks. Owner trebble hooks are great. Super sharp, strong but fine enough that there's a chance that if one gets caught in a big snag, it will bend. You can bend it back when you reel in.

These are all only going to increase your chances of getting your gear back from a snag but if it gets badly snagged, it doesn't matter what gear you have, it will be lost.

gumbo1

A friend of mine uses this method when he gets badly snagged and I have to say it works!

https://youtu.be/SI9aMpZX22w

thefisherbuy

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

If you fish in weed, You'l loose gear, its Parr for the course.
You can try and increase your chance of getting gear back by:

-Using stronger braid. River piker uses 80lb to increase the chance of getting his pricy lures back.

-use stronger traces to go with your stronger braid.

-use finer trebble hooks. Owner trebble hooks are great. Super sharp, strong but fine enough that there's a chance that if one gets caught in a big snag, it will bend. You can bend it back when you reel in.

These are all only going to increase your chances of getting your gear back from a snag but if it gets badly snagged, it doesn't matter what gear you have, it will be lost.

Thanks for the tips,

I meant I lost my deadbait rig, the exact one reddie posted! Also everytime I reeled in the deadbait it was full of weed, I didn't have the popups with me that day!

I've been using 40lb power pro for lures
30lb trace berkley
I've never losed a lure there normally because I fish with ss sinkers!

Thanks.

Reedsie

If there's a load of weed on the bottom and you can't find a clear patch then you need to fish under a float and suspend the bait above the weed, out of harm's way.

thefisherbuy

Reedsie wrote: »

If there's a load of weed on the bottom and you can't find a clear patch then you need to fish under a float and suspend the bait above the weed, out of harm's way.

I have found one patch that's fairly weedless, would a popup not solve this as the weed is just on the bottom usually! What float rig would you suggest the one I was using isn't that great. For rivers and lakes?

Thanks.

thefisherbuy

thefisherbuy wrote: »

I have found one patch that's fairly weedless, would a popup not solve this as the weed is just on the bottom usually! What float rig would you suggest the one I was using isn't that great. For rivers and lakes?

Thanks.

I was looking at this video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2HHrNcva6fc

What do ye lads think? It makes sense, he talks about the rig around 4 mins in the video! I could still use the alarm.

thefisherbuy

Update

Fished with this rig at my local river with a weedy bottom,

Rig
Deadbait trace
Plastic ball to protect the line
Swivel with around 5 or 7 inches with 20lb and a knot to weaken the line with a weight or ledger
Mackerel
Popup.

I tried that wound knot and it worked a treat! When I wasn't fishing with a popup I was getting loads of weed know I'm not getting any weed at all! I had to hold the rod high for the weight to sink! And then I felt the weight hit the bottom, rig it to the alarm!

Reedsie

Good stuff. Mick Brown won't put you too far wrong.