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Is teacher training still sectarian?
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23-08-2016 04:36PM#1
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Well, its protestants giving themselves a break when it comes to honours Irish. Not somebody else giving it to them. Its an interesting question, but they are a sort of reverse Gaeltacht. In general, they were never in favour of mandatory Irish in schools; it was imposed on them by the state. They have less of a tradition within the population of being fluent. The standard of Irish is often lower in CoI schools than in RC schools where Irish language and Catholicism have been enthusiastically promoted. Protestant parents are usually less enthusiastic about the language. A significant % of CoI kids have a derogation from learning Irish due to being "dyslexic" but the same kids seem to be able to go on to learn French or SpanishBristolscale7 wrote: »What is the rationale for giving protestants an out on Irish (even if it's only on paper)? Something along the lines of Karl Marx, " The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living"?
. The question has to be asked, if your ancestors have lived here for hundreds of years, but none have ever spoken Irish fluently, why would you consider it to be your native language?
Also, their teachers are usually less capable at Irish themselves, because they have been educated within the same segregated system themselves.
So you could just as easily ask, what is the rationale for giving Gaelgeoirs bonus points for doing subjects through Irish? If its a form of "positive discrimination" for those whose culture is to be fluent in Irish, then imposing an honours Irish requirement would be a form of "negative discrimination" for those whose culture is to speak English. You can hardly expect this sub-culture to be enthusiastic about imposing negative discrimination on itself.0 -
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In general, they were never in favour of mandatory Irish in schools; it was imposed on them by the state.
Many others weren't either; and aren't.The standard of Irish is often lower in CoI schools than in RC schools where Irish language and Catholicism have been enthusiastically promoted.
We often hear complaints that the standard of and enthusiasm for Irish is low across the board. LC results show many capable students who do the bare minimum in Irish, if that. That's what I did and it makes perfect sense when you have a subject to discard for points purposes and no interest in it. If there's a case for linking this to CoI schools specifically then let's see it. The issue is much broader than that.Protestant parents are usually less enthusiastic about the language. A significant % of CoI kids have a derogation from learning Irish due to being "dyslexic" but the same kids seem to be able to go on to learn French or Spanish. The question has to be asked, if your ancestors have lived here for hundreds of years, but none have ever spoken Irish fluently, why would you consider it to be your native language?
Was never a protestant, have never considered Irish my native language.
The minority of parents enthusiastic about it will surely be looking for gaelscoil places? of course, not all will get them.
Most of the rest don't care about Irish or would rather it be done away with at school.Also, their teachers are usually less capable at Irish themselves, because they have been educated within the same segregated system themselves.
Again this appears to be a complaint of the Irish lobby across the board in English medium schools. And those guys never ever exaggerate
You can hardly expect this sub-culture to be enthusiastic about imposing negative discrimination on itself.
It appears to be down to demand. The catholic non-protestant places will easily be filled despite the higher Irish requirement. The former CICE didn't appear to be so certain. They were prepared to compromise on Irish to ensure they didn't have to on religion.I'm partial to your abracadabra,
I'm raptured by the joy of it all.
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It boggles my mind that in this day and age if you want to be a teacher in a national school etc and be paid by the state that you have to promote religion and submit to religious whims to do so.
What this country needs is complete separation of church and state.
You could be right, stick around and argue for it!
you are new in here I think? 0 -
Well, its protestants giving themselves a break when it comes to honours Irish. Not somebody else giving it to them. Its an interesting question, but they are a sort of reverse Gaeltacht. In general, they were never in favour of mandatory Irish in schools; it was imposed on them by the state. They have less of a tradition within the population of being fluent. The standard of Irish is often lower in CoI schools than in RC schools where Irish language and Catholicism have been enthusiastically promoted. Protestant parents are usually less enthusiastic about the language. A significant % of CoI kids have a derogation from learning Irish due to being "dyslexic" but the same kids seem to be able to go on to learn French or Spanish. The question has to be asked, if your ancestors have lived here for hundreds of years, but none have ever spoken Irish fluently, why would you consider it to be your native language?
Also, their teachers are usually less capable at Irish themselves, because they have been educated within the same segregated system themselves.
So you could just as easily ask, what is the rationale for giving Gaelgeoirs bonus points for doing subjects through Irish? If its a form of "positive discrimination" for those whose culture is to be fluent in Irish, then imposing an honours Irish requirement would be a form of "negative discrimination" for those whose culture is to speak English. You can hardly expect this sub-culture to be enthusiastic about imposing negative discrimination on itself.
I have know idea what you think you're talking about. Who are you to say that the standard of Irish is' often' lower in COI schools than RC schools? Have you personally gone in and inspected each one and compared with each RC school?
Didn't think so.
How do you know if COI parents are less enthusiastic about the language? What are you basing these statements on?0 -
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