When do teams use their second kits?

The Swordsman

I've wondered about this for a while now.

I remember watching a game on the TV between Galway ladies and Cork and having difficulty distinguishing between the teams. Recently, the match between Mayo and Westmeath and today's game with Tipp caused me the same difficulty. The close up shots are no problem for me but the wide shots can be problematic.

I thought it had something to do with me growing older and the peelers not working as well as they used to until my 14 year old daughter said exactly the same thing.

I seem to recall that Mayo and Kerry changed for the semi final and replay in 2014.

Do the GAA tell teams to change or do they decide between themselves.

Apologies if this has come up before, but I couldn't find any previous threads on it.

Dirty Dingus McGee

I found it difficult at times to differentiate between Tipp and Mayo jerseys today.

Stoner

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote:

I found it difficult at times to differentiate between Tipp and Mayo jerseys today.

Good point , so did I.

GoldFour4

Yeah I was finding it quite hard to differentiate between the two teams at points today too - definitely could have done with a colour change

BonnieSituation

Even if one or other of then had changed shorts it would have made a big difference. It's farcical that both teams wear white shorts so often in GAA when these similarities occur.

There were confusing moments today but the Mayo v Westmeath match was desperate.

The Swordsman

In Soccer World Cups back in the day, one team had to wear light colours and the other dark so people watching on Black and White TVs could distinguish. I understand that in Euro 2016 UEFA even had teams change to cater for colour blindness.

I'm not saying the GAA should go all the way down this route. Soccer is ridiculous with the home, away, 3rd, Champions League and Europa League (when they get dumped from the CL - OK exaggerating a bit here) kits. However, the GAA just seems reluctant to have teams change unless the two kits are absolutely identical.

BTW, is this just a TV thing? I'd be interested to hear from someone who was sitting high up in the upper tiers yesterday to hear if it was an issue.

WesternZulu

The Swordsman wrote: »

In Soccer World Cups back in the day, one team had to wear light colours and the other dark so people watching on Black and White TVs could distinguish. I understand that in Euro 2016 UEFA even had teams change to cater for colour blindness.

I'm not saying the GAA should go all the way down this route. Soccer is ridiculous with the home, away, 3rd, Champions League and Europa League (when they get dumped from the CL - OK exaggerating a bit here) kits. However, the GAA just seems reluctant to have teams change unless the two kits are absolutely identical.

BTW, is this just a TV thing? I'd be interested to hear from someone who was sitting high up in the upper tiers yesterday to hear if it was an issue.

I was at the game yesterday and I have to admit that it was difficult to identify who was who.

BonnieSituation

The Swordsman wrote: »

In Soccer World Cups back in the day, one team had to wear light colours and the other dark so people watching on Black and White TVs could distinguish. I understand that in Euro 2016 UEFA even had teams change to cater for colour blindness.

I'm not saying the GAA should go all the way down this route. Soccer is ridiculous with the home, away, 3rd, Champions League and Europa League (when they get dumped from the CL - OK exaggerating a bit here) kits. However, the GAA just seems reluctant to have teams change unless the two kits are absolutely identical.

BTW, is this just a TV thing? I'd be interested to hear from someone who was sitting high up in the upper tiers yesterday to hear if it was an issue.

It's still the rules wrt to FIFA competitions.

That's why we had that awful phenomenon of shirts and shorts matching at World Cup 2014.

If Tipp wore blue shorts yday there would have been next to zero issues.

The Swordsman

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It's still the rules wrt to FIFA competitions.

That's why we had that awful phenomenon of shirts and shorts matching at World Cup 2014.

If Tipp wore blue shorts yday there would have been next to zero issues.

Remember the time back in the 90s when Man U played in a grey strip, which I think was their third strip, but had to revert to their 2nd strip at half time as their players couldn't pick each other out on the pitch.:)

BonnieSituation

The Swordsman wrote: »

Remember the time back in the 90s when Man U played in a grey strip, which I think was their third strip, but has to revert to their 2nd strip at half time as their players couldn't pick each other out on the pitch.:)

I do. Beaten by Southampton 3-1 that day. In fairness they won the second half. :P

eigrod

Cork & Down both changed in 2010 AI final

BonnieSituation

eigrod wrote: »

Cork & Down both changed in 2010 AI final

Cork went to their white away and Down wore Ulster colours.

(That Down shirt was an absolute beauty)

Realt Dearg Sec

The Swordsman wrote: »

Remember the time back in the 90s when Man U played in a grey strip, which I think was their third strip, but had to revert to their 2nd strip at half time as their players couldn't pick each other out on the pitch.:)

Wasn't there a rumour the real reason was they thought the jersey was cursed, hadn't gotten a win while wearing it. Ugly as sin it was anyway.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Sligo wore a black kit against Kildare in 2002. They were so happy to have won while wearing it that they stuck with it and were fined by the GAA for not using their official colours.

Realt Dearg Sec

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

and were fined by the GAA for not using their official colours.

That has the smell of authentic GAA committee small-mindedness about it alright!

BonnieSituation

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Sligo wore a black kit against Kildare in 2002. They were so happy to have won while wearing it that they stuck with it and were fined by the GAA for not using their official colours.

Sure isn't that why Donegal wear Yellow and Green now after the AISF v Mayo in 1992, they kept it for the Final against us and then when they won it they stuck with Yellow and Green.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Sure isn't that why Donegal wear Yellow and Green now after the AISF v Mayo in 1992, they kept it for the Final against us and then when they won it they stuck with Yellow and Green.

That's true. Before my time though, I was amazed to learn they ever played in anything else.

nice_guy80

It was hard to see difference between Tipp v Mayo players on tv

Definitely one team needs to wear non white shorts

rpurfield

Glad I wasn't the only one who was struggling to make out the difference in the wide shots. I'm pretty sure Meath and Mayo both wore green for the drawn 96 final, Meath wore green shorts with it. The one that bugs the hell out of me is Dublin and Laois both wearing blue when they play each other! I know it's different shades but even still it's an annoying one.

BonnieSituation

rpurfield wrote: »

Glad I wasn't the only one who was struggling to make out the difference in the wide shots. I'm pretty sure Meath and Mayo both wore green for the drawn 96 final, Meath wore green shorts with it. The one that bugs the hell out of me is Dublin and Laois both wearing blue when they play each other! I know it's different shades but even still it's an annoying one.

But they don't clash. If Laois were to wear white it would be worse.

Think about when Man City play Chelsea...

On Meath:

Pride In The Jersey wrote:

1996:
Meath met Mayo again in the All-Ireland final, but this time the only change was that Meath wore green shorts, with the county crest on them.

http://www.prideinthejersey.com/Meath.html

DoctaDee

The Dublin Dev squads I've seen have an alternative Navy Blue with Sky Blue collar and piping on the sleeves ... I can't off the top of my head visualise AIG on the jersey so may not be approved inter county wear .. dunno whether it would take away from the confusion

Clareman

Clare and Tipp changed jerseys for the 93 Munster final, never a problem before that or after it.

rpurfield

DoctaDee wrote: »

The Dublin Dev squads I've seen have an alternative Navy Blue with Sky Blue collar and piping on the sleeves ... I can't off the top of my head visualise AIG on the jersey so may not be approved inter county wear .. dunno whether it would take away from the confusion

I think that's to do with getting two teams out, the Dublin and Meath u15 squads played each other earlier in the year and it was the blue squad and navy squad and with Meath the green squad and Gold squad, meant that both sides got two games and more players out. Good idea if you ask me.

padd b1975

nice_guy80 wrote: »

It was hard to see difference between Tipp v Mayo players on tv

Definitely one team needs to wear non white shorts

Yeah, really shouldn't have happened at this level.

I remember back in the eighties Galway used to switch to maroon shorts when playing Cork.
I suppose there would be much more black and white televisions in those days particularly in the south Galway hurling heartland.

bruschi

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

That has the smell of authentic GAA committee small-mindedness about it alright!

meh, I wouldnt mind them on that one. It was a fine of £250 as well, so not exactly earth shattering. Any team in any sport submits their jersey colour. To go changing it mid season for no reason other than superstition is not a great way to keep a handle on things. The following year they changed their primary colour kit from white to black.

Realt Dearg Sec

bruschi wrote: »

meh, I wouldnt mind them on that one. It was a fine of £250 as well, so not exactly earth shattering. Any team in any sport submits their jersey colour. To go changing it mid season for no reason other than superstition is not a great way to keep a handle on things. The following year they changed their primary colour kit from white to black.

Ah, it harms nobody from what I can see. Sportspeople are the most superstitious you'll ever meet

Clareman

Clareman wrote: »

Clare and Tipp changed jerseys for the 93 Munster final, never a problem before that or after it.

Clare had predominantly blue sleeves in 1993, hence facilitated the need for a change. its ironic that both almost reversed into the others primary colour. Clare footballers changed into white in 1998 against Tipperary. Also Clare used wear blue shirts with a yellow collar and cuffs in the 60s and wore this combination against Tipperary in the 1967 munster final of that year. Denis hurley had an article about it on his site pitj some time ago.

BonnieSituation

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It's still the rules wrt to FIFA competitions.

That's why we had that awful phenomenon of shirts and shorts matching at World Cup 2014.

If Tipp wore blue shorts yday there would have been next to zero issues.

I think the darkness or hue of each shirt was probably a bigger issue than the actual blue v green clash. A lighter green or a lighter blue against a dark green or blue would have been alot better. I agree re the shorts though. Royal blue shorts would be cool tbh.

ProudDUB

DoctaDee wrote: »

The Dublin Dev squads I've seen have an alternative Navy Blue with Sky Blue collar and piping on the sleeves ... I can't off the top of my head visualise AIG on the jersey so may not be approved inter county wear .. dunno whether it would take away from the confusion

Wasn't there an game a couple of years ago, where we wore all black? I think it was a minor or U21 game or something. For some reason, it's in my head that the game was played in Carlow. There was a clash with who ever we were playing and we had to change, not them. Or have I been smoking the cheap crack again?

Dublinproud

ProudDUB wrote: »

Wasn't there an game a couple of years ago, where we wore all black? I think it was a minor or U21 game or something. For some reason, it's in my head that the game was played in Carlow. There was a clash with who ever we were playing and we had to change, not them. Or have I been smoking the cheap crack again?

U21 Semi Final against Cavan in 2014...Nice jersey too!

denishurley

Cavan did change to all-white that day too. Why Dublin-Cavan is a clash and Dublin-Tipp or Dublin-Laois aren't, I don't know.

To address the opening question, those in charge tend to just compare the two jerseys and how similar they are in terms of the basic colours, so the darkness of Mayo's shade of green - and the similarity with Westmeath/Tipp from a distance - isn't factored in.

Donegal and Kerry in the 2014 final might also be considered one where the jerseys didn't clash but Donegal's green shorts contributed to an 'overall clash' - I still wonder if Paul Durcan's kickout to Kieran Donaghy might have had something to do with this.

DoctaDee

ProudDUB wrote: »

Wasn't there an game a couple of years ago, where we wore all black? I think it was a minor or U21 game or something. For some reason, it's in my head that the game was played in Carlow. There was a clash with who ever we were playing and we had to change, not them. Or have I been smoking the cheap crack again?

See this is the problem when you speed read a post - WTF sez me, nothing would clash with a Carlow jersey .. unless they played Ghana

Dublinproud wrote: »

U21 Semi Final against Cavan in 2014...Nice jersey too!

Good spot indeed, that's the jersey I was thinking of

ProudDUB

Dublinproud wrote: »

U21 Semi Final against Cavan in 2014...Nice jersey too!

Thanks for that Proud Dubliner, Dub Proud, DublinProud....er...whoever you are.

I knew I wasn't imagining it.

For the Laois game in KK, someone should have changed their jerseys. It was fine, in the sunshine at throw in @7pm. But by 8pm, in the fading sunlight of an overcast evening, it was really hard to see who was who, especially when play was down at the other end of the pitch.

Stevecw

DoctaDee wrote: »

See this is the problem when you speed read a post - WTF sez me, nothing would clash with a Carlow jersey .. unless they played Ghana

That was the old Carlow jersey, with our new one we actually do clash with anybody wearing red. Even in this years championship we had to wear green against Louth. Up to a couple of years ago we never clashed with anyone for obvious reasons!

denishurley

I'd have considered Mayo and Carlow a clash, but I don't think the question ever arose.

Clareman

Deleted User wrote: »

Clare had predominantly blue sleeves in 1993, hence facilitated the need for a change. its ironic that both almost reversed into the others primary colour. Clare footballers changed into white in 1998 against Tipperary. Also Clare used wear blue shirts with a yellow collar and cuffs in the 60s and wore this combination against Tipperary in the 1967 munster final of that year. Denis hurley had an article about it on his site pitj some time ago.

In 93 Clare were wearing the same jersey as the footballers wore in 1992 when they beat Tipp in the Munster Championship, I have a vague memory of Babs making an issue of it in an article and Clare being happy to change cause the alternative was the Flannan's jersey and most of the team would have played for Flannan's. Personally, I don't want to mention that game again.

If I was put in charge of the GAA I would say that in the event of a clash of jersey the designated home team change and their alternative jersey would either be their provincial colours (if they are champions) or their county champions jersey.

Clareman

Off the top of my head I would say that Clare would clash with Antrim, Roscommon and Donegal. I'd imagine teams with green in their colouring would clash a lot so Limerick, Leitrim, Meath, Mayo, Offaly, Kerry, Fermanagh and London would probably have to change. Blues would be changing as well so Dublin, Wicklow, Laois, Longford, Cavan and Tipp. Then whites Kildare, Tyrone, Monaghan, Waterford and Derry.

Stationmaster

Yea, didn't Clare wear blue this year against Roscommon and the U21's wore it one of the years against Antrim also.

Rules state both teams are meant to change in the event of a clash but, at club level at least, I don't understand why they can't just toss for it as most clubs wouldn't have away jerseys and usually end up wearing a neighbouring clubs set.

paul0103

denishurley wrote: »

I'd have considered Mayo and Carlow a clash, but I don't think the question ever arose.

They have met a few times in hurling. Looking through Google images it doesn't look like they changed. However it did throw up this slightly unusual Mayo jersey. Don't recall the footballers ever wearing it.

Clareman wrote: »

Off the top of my head I would say that Clare would clash with Antrim, Roscommon and Donegal. I'd imagine teams with green in their colouring would clash a lot so Limerick, Leitrim, Meath, Mayo, Offaly, Kerry, Fermanagh and London would probably have to change. Blues would be changing as well so Dublin, Wicklow, Laois, Longford, Cavan and Tipp. Then whites Kildare, Tyrone, Monaghan, Waterford and Derry.

I think Meath hurlers must be one of the most frequent teams to wear their alternative jersey in the past few years due to the frequency that they play Kerry (esp. underage), London and Mayo.

bruschi

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Ah, it harms nobody from what I can see. Sportspeople are the most superstitious you'll ever meet

oh no, I dont mind teams being superstitious, but I dont particularly blame the GAA for having a rule in that you cant just change the colour of your jersey whenever you see fit. You submit your colours at the start of a season and only change when requested to do so, otherwise it could cause issue. Sligo took that on board and formally changed their colour the season after.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

paul0103 wrote: »

They have met a few times in hurling. Looking through Google images it doesn't look like they changed. However it did throw up this slightly unusual Mayo jersey. Don't recall the footballers ever wearing it.

The hurlers used to always wear that shirt. In recent years, they've had the same as the footballers. I don't know why they had different shirts, the sponsor was the same.

Clareman

When I was playing if there was a clash of jerseys there'd be a toss of coin to see which team would wear their kit inside out

Realt Dearg Sec

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

The hurlers used to always wear that shirt. In recent years, they've had the same as the footballers. I don't know why they had different shirts, the sponsor was the same.

Had a mate in college who played hurling for mayo and owned one of those jerseys, he was very proud of it understandably (the arms have two crossed hurls on them as well). A lad on hill 16 once wanted to swap wth him for something like a Kerry jersey or whatever, obviously he says no but if you were into collecting jerseys I'd say that was a very sought after one, couldn't be bought in a shop far as I know

denishurley

Ironic, given that it was sponsored by a chain of them.

Offaly Exile

Offaly and Kerry wore changed jerseys when playing each other in 1980/81/82

Have a look at this footage and also marvel at the great Matt Connor. I think he might be just a little bit better than Bernard Brogan or James o'Donoghue or even Cillian O'Connor:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PICamSfnA2o

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

I saw that Mayo hurling shirt for sale in Claremorris once. But yeah, you didn't see it around much.

rpurfield

Offaly Exile wrote: »

Offaly and Kerry wore changed jerseys when playing each other in 1980/81/82

Have a look at this footage and also marvel at the great Matt Connor. I think he might be just a little bit better than Bernard Brogan or James o'Donoghue or even Cillian O'Connor:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PICamSfnA2o

The jerseys they have on them at about one minute ten into that are top notch, someone needs to get them remade!

denishurley

That was the 1980 semi-final. Kerry were able to get away with having green and gold as their change colours in '81 and '82