Omran - the boy in the ambulance in Aleppo

I don't want a thread about who is right or wrong in Syria, I certainly do not want a thread about migration. It's the power of the clip alone that I want to analyse, and much like Alan Kurdi washed on a beach, the ability of an image or video to evoke reaction far more than any analysis of an issue.

For those who do not know what I am talking about, see this video of a child pulled from rubble in Aleppo...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/18/boy-in-the-ambulance-image-emerges-syrian-child-aleppo-rubble

Should it stand with the image of Alan Kurdi as one of the powerful representations of our time. A sort of like Kevin Carter's "starving child with vulture" image for this decade? Is that to give it too much significance? For me, the silence and almost...resignation make it stand out from other images. here is a child that has gone beyond crying for attention or poking at a graze.

Elmer Blooker

Deleted User wrote: »

Should it stand with the image of Alan Kurdi as one of the powerful representations of our time.

No. It is totally fake and phony.
If people could only think for themselves and not believe EVERYTHING they see and read in the media. None of this war porn from Aleppo is sourced from real journalists but from "civil defense" aid workers.
https://off-guardian.org/2016/08/18/media-using-pro-al-nusra-media-center-as-source-for-war-propaganda/
*note I used S and not C in defence.

eviltimeban

I saw it yesterday and thought it was pretty awful alright. The way he rubs his eye, notices the blood on his hand, then tries to wipe it off on the chair. He's only 5. I've have a 6 year old and they're still so innocent and open at that age.

What the Kurdi image did last year was mobilise people to contribute clothes and money to refugees, but of course the problem wasn't solved. People felt better for helping and they felt they "did something". But this time, I don't think we can't help. We can't stop Russian bombs landing on hospitals.

What it might do is make us realise how lucky we. We might let our kids have that extra five minutes before bed, or we might take them to the park to run and play.

eviltimeban

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

No. It is totally fake and phony.

Go sell crazy somewhere else. We're all stocked up here.:P

Birneybau

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Should it stand with the image of Alan Kurdi as one of the powerful representations of our time.

No. It is totally fake and phony.
If people could only think for themselves and not believe EVERYTHING they see and read in the media. None of this war porn from Aleppo is sourced from real journalists but from "civil defense" aid workers.
https://off-guardian.org/2016/08/18/media-using-pro-al-nusra-media-center-as-source-for-war-propaganda/
*note I used S and not C in defence.

Elmer Fudd more like.

Elmer Blooker

Birneybau wrote: »

Elmer Fudd more like.

do I care what whether you lot swallow the fodder that you are fed?

tigger123

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

do I care what whether you lot swallow the fodder that you are fed?

Sheeple, eh?

jimgoose

In 2003, at a roadblock just outside the central Iraqi town of Al Hayy, Sgt. Charles Graves and Cpl. Ryan Jeschke of the U.S. Marine Corps' First Recon battalion approached a car that had been fired upon by troops after it had failed to stop after several warning shots. It had become apparent that it wasn't a military vehicle of any kind, and on approaching the two men saw a little girl in the back seat who appeared to be injured. As Sgt. Graves reached for the child to assist whatever way he could, the top of her head fell off, having been smashed by a .50-cal BMG round, and her brain slid out onto the ground. Stepping back in sudden utter shock, Graves slipped in the brain matter and almost fell. He didn't speak for a full minute afterwards, and was subsequently and since unable accurately or even coherently to describe the scene. This in an example of what's known in the Corps as a "BSOD", which is much the same as a computer BSOD, only with a soldier.

My point is, there is no shortage of actual jaw-dropping horror in any armed conflict, without engineering a load of makey-uppey crap for the sake of propaganda.

Jan Laco

They didn't quite get the make up very well. No uniformed personnel around, kid sees a photographer before a medic and everything but the kid is immaculately clean. That ambulance is cleaner than any hospital I've seen and it's supposed to be at a scene of an air strike.

Oh and the kid is so tough he doesn't even cry at a head injury like that??

Birneybau

tigger123 wrote: »

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

do I care what whether you lot swallow the fodder that you are fed?

Those wascally wabbits.

skywanderer

Mod-No politics.

The_Valeyard

Every news outlet seems to be using this poor unfortunate kid for their own means. Poor lil guy . RT.com was giving the angle of rebels to blame and Russia needs to fix Syria, bla , bla, bla.

The whole Syria conflict is an absolute horrible mess.

Mint Sauce

Years ago, might have shock about this. But now with 24hr news and social media, its so accessible and in our faces, most have become immune to these images.

sbsquarepants

eviltimeban wrote: »

What it might do is make us realise how lucky we. We might let our kids have that extra five minutes before bed, or we might take them to the park to run and play.

We all like a moan about how this country is a kip and so on - but when it comes right down to it, we are all steeped in luck to live in this "kip". Perspective is needed sometimes.
I have 3 young kids and I can put them to bed and be almost 100% sure they will all be fine in the morning, half the world can't say that. No one is going to shoot up my house, or set of a bomb on my street and so on.
That is valuable in a way that getting fleeced to pay for bank mistakes just can not erode. Yes it's wrong and yes it's a pain in the bollox - but it just doesn't compare to what happens in a lot of places.

uck51js9zml2yt

Jan Laco wrote: »

They didn't quite get the make up very well. No uniformed personnel around, kid sees a photographer before a medic and everything but the kid is immaculately clean. That ambulance is cleaner than any hospital I've seen and it's supposed to be at a scene of an air strike.

Oh and the kid is so tough he doesn't even cry at a head injury like that??

Looks like the paramedic went back to get more injured from the site.
Child doesn't cry? Try shock!
I've a 5year old. It could have been my son in different circumstances!

Elmer Blooker

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

No. It is totally fake and phony.
If people could only think for themselves and not believe EVERYTHING they see and read in the media...

There's someone who has spectacularly missed the point and linked some about politics, the source of the video etc. in my OP I even said I did not want an analysis of who did it or the war itself. Indeed your very post underlines the point I was making, about the power of images...in this instance you linked a news source that is so alarmed about the power that they ascribe it to some other side.

The article does not state the video was faked. It suggests the child did not sustain serious injury. Which I knew. In fact, as was carried in the media, his entire family survived.

mansize

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

do I care what whether you lot swallow the fodder that you are fed?

I'm sure breitbait have the truth... Evil mooslims

The_Valeyard

Jaysus, lot of Putin keyboard warrior soldiers here.

SEPT 23 1989

nowhere near as bad as the starving child with the vulture

thanks for the reminder:(

ThisRegard

Jan Laco wrote: »

They didn't quite get the make up very well. No uniformed personnel around, kid sees a photographer before a medic and everything but the kid is immaculately clean. That ambulance is cleaner than any hospital I've seen and it's supposed to be at a scene of an air strike.

Oh and the kid is so tough he doesn't even cry at a head injury like that??

Shock, you bloody moron.

There's at least 2 angles on this, there's a uniformed medic in the ambulance and he's getting water or first aid stuff, you can see it in the wider angle.

TommyKnocker

The only issue I have with this photo/video is that it is used to push an agenda.

All the copies I have seen of this photo and video from various "News outlets" are pushing the same line that this is the result of the evil Russians and the Bashar Al-Assad regime. This is what they are doing in Syria.

But what about the bombs dropped by the US and US lead coalition? Are we expected to believe that somehow they cause less damage and carnage? The bombs that the US allies the KSA drop on innocent folks in Yemen or Israel drop on innocent folks in Palestine are never mentioned or those killed in the US bombings and drone strikes, are they some how ok when they also cause untold misery and suffering?

The reason I find this kind of image so powerful and believe have such affect is that the subject is a child. There have been so many images on various media of mutilated human bodies which are usually not white victims and which we a told are "Other", "Terrorists", "Bad People" that by and large the masses have become immune to them. However when the image is of a child, we all have sons, daughters, nieces and nephews around that age or are close to others who have and thankfully this still give one cause to pause and reflect and see that this child cannot possibly be an Other or Terrorist or bad in any way. This is pure innocence suffering at the hands of others simply for greed and power.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

do I care what whether you lot swallow the fodder that you are fed?

It's definitely fake. The ambulance is clean and the first aid kit to the right of the kid is in English. This was obviously staged in an English speaking country with some 2nd+ generation immigrants. The guy with the bloody face, blood only goes to his chest, everybody knows that head wounds always bleed profusely and the blood will always drip down to your shoes. So if the blood stains only stop on your chest, then it's fake blood. Everybody knows this.

Oh, and the kid doesn't cry, so it's obviously fake. They drugged him and then put the dust on his face and then the blood, probably used chicken blood to make it real looking. The paramedic doesn't look after the kid. Everybody knows that paramedics would never leave an allegedly injured child like that. He wouldn't go back to look for more kids and injured people. Everybody knows this and that is the evidence why this is fake.

RandomName2

Is it powerful imagery: yes
Should its authenticity be verified: I suppose
Should it inform our foreign policy: no

I don't have much time for people whose recognition of horror is directly proportional to the number of pixels used to record it.

tigger123

Can't believe the conspiracy theories on here.

ThisRegard

Jase Round Self-incrimination wrote: »

It's definitely fake. The ambulance is clean and the first aid kit to the right of the kid is in English. This was obviously staged in an English speaking country with some 2nd+ generation immigrants. The guy with the bloody face, blood only goes to his chest, everybody knows that head wounds always bleed profusely and the blood will always drip down to your shoes. So if the blood stains only stop on your chest, then it's fake blood. Everybody knows this.

Do you think it was by the same people who done the moon landings? I think if you zoom in far enough you might be able to match some of the fingerprints from photos of both scenes.

RandomName2

tigger123 wrote: »

Can't believe the conspiracy theories on here.

I don't think that one can say for definite whether it is real or fake, and although one can hope it isn't real, whether or not it is doesn't honestly really matter. The civil war was no less bloody last week than it is this week.

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Jaysus, lot of Putin keyboard warrior soldiers here.

How about this: the sooner Assad has regained control the better. The attempt to overthrow him had validity, but failed, and increased attempts to prop up the disparate rebels only aided the rise of ISIS. Now all we can hope for is the fastest return to peace possible, and that involves that tyrant achieving control of cities like Aleppo. Any lengthening of the conflict by the West in the hopes of getting a friendly puppet state in the middle east will only cost the lives of more people. Russia waited out the conflict long enough to see that their ally wasn't going to fall to the rebellion, and now is determined to bolster him up. Unless you want war between the US and Russia, it is time to admit that the West made a dick move and collectively back down.

BoJack Horseman

tigger123 wrote: »

Can't believe the conspiracy theories on here.

Little boys can't melt steel beams!
Wake up sheeple!
.
.
.
..... I may have gotten two conspiracies confused there.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

ThisRegard wrote: »

Do you think it was by the same people who done the moon landings? I think if you zoom in far enough you might be able to match some of the fingerprints from photos of both scenes.

Yes, that's what I was thinking because the dust is very similar, unless they got some moon rocks and crushed it to make it the dust but that can't be true because you can only find moon rocks on the moon and there's no way to get them down from there. It would be very hard. The moon rocks are probably also very poisonous, that's why they are out in space... obviously...

FalconGirl

An absolutely heartbreaking image.

One of the most scandalous events of our time is that Tony Blair who is an indirect cause of incidents like this has been let completely off the hook. That's disgusting.

RobertKK

I saw it, saw the child rub his face, then he did what I would have done, looked at his hand, saw the blood and wiped it away.
I thought it is sad, but at the same time, thinking 'this is a war zone, so this is what happens in a war zone.

It didn't change how I feel on he Syria situation, where both sides have a lot to answer for, and if I was a Syrian living in Syria, my best chances of survival would be on the side of the Assad regime as I would be part of the Christian minority.

So the video didn't have any major effect, and no doubt will be forgotten about soon as some other thing gets media attention. There are always bad things happening in the world, and it will not have the same effect as a major terrorist attack.
Far worse things have happened in Syria like crucifixions, burned alive, buried alive, thrown off buildings, beheaded, so I find it hard to see the video and feel this is somehow worse just because it is a child who is lucky to be alive.

topper75

I and all the others reading this thread can cry whatever tears. Useless

The warlords stocking the warring parties with endless weaponry on tick or buying 'their' oil... not so many tears.

The image changes nothing. Nothing whatsoever - where is it's power OP?

gctest50

Deleted User wrote: »

Should it stand with the image of Alan Kurdi as one of the powerful representations of our time.

They moved him for more "likes" :

http://imgur.com/7feih4a

Nermal

How come it's over every newspaper, front page and TV channel, when the film of the child being beheaded by the 'moderate rebels' was not?

It's a very powerful photo, but have you asked yourself why it's being pushed in your face?

Smondie

Here's the guy who took the picture having a selfie with local child beheaders, US backed moderate Islamic rebels...

https://mobile.twitter.com/walid970721/status/766405725920919553/photo/2

Skylinehead

skywanderer wrote: »

It will be seized upon by the politically correct and cultural marxists as another excuse to give Europe some Jihadi "Cultural Enrichment". How about a photo of a 5 year old boy who had his family and parents killed in Paris, Nice or Brussels by Islamic terrorists?

Mod: Not an immigration thread, so don't bring it up please.

Billy86

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Little boys can't melt steel beams!
Wake up sheeple!
.
.
.
..... I may have gotten two conspiracies confused there.

With all the side characters DC and Marvel are eagerly chucking at us in their movies lately, who knows...

Billy86

Jase Round Self-incrimination wrote: »

It's definitely fake. The ambulance is clean and the first aid kit to the right of the kid is in English. This was obviously staged in an English speaking country with some 2nd+ generation immigrants. The guy with the bloody face, blood only goes to his chest, everybody knows that head wounds always bleed profusely and the blood will always drip down to your shoes. So if the blood stains only stop on your chest, then it's fake blood. Everybody knows this.

Oh, and the kid doesn't cry, so it's obviously fake. They drugged him and then put the dust on his face and then the blood, probably used chicken blood to make it real looking. The paramedic doesn't look after the kid. Everybody knows that paramedics would never leave an allegedly injured child like that. He wouldn't go back to look for more kids and injured people. Everybody knows this and that is the evidence why this is fake.

You... do know countries have been donating ambulances and ambulance equipment to Syria for ages, right?

http://www.helprefugees.org.uk/2016/02/12/oz-shows-us-round-the-ambulances-donated-to-syria/

http://www.cornishman.co.uk/volunteers-send-ambulance-syria-penzance/story-29403611-detail/story.html
(because your above post makes it clear you'll think Pencanze is in the middle east, I'll let you know it is right down the south west of England)

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/03/uk-syria-aid-viewed-through-lens-terror-2014312905890256.html



Going by your comments on the bleeding & lack of crying, I can only assume your post is a piss take!

tigger123

RandomName2 wrote: »

I don't think that one can say for definite whether it is real or fake, and although one can hope it isn't real, whether or not it is doesn't honestly really matter. The civil war was no less bloody last week than it is this week.

Do you approach every photograph you see in the media in such a manner?

skywanderer

Skylinehead wrote: »

Mod: Not an immigration thread, so don't bring it up please.

My point is not about Immigration but rather Islamic Terrorism, I made absolutely no mention of immigration in my post.

Skylinehead

skywanderer wrote: »

My point is not about Immigration but rather Islamic Terrorism, I made absolutely no mention of immigration in my post.

as another excuse to give Europe some Jihadi "Cultural Enrichment".

Yeah, I'm not having that one. Also, it's not a terrorism thread, and also don't reply to mod instructions on thread - PM me if you have an issue.

Thanks.

gctest50

Easy fake stuff like that if you're good enough :


http://imgur.com/a4Hrq7n

http://www.bustle.com/articles/38979-dutch-woman-zilla-van-den-borns-fake-vacation-examines-how-social-media-filters-reality

Graphic designer and student Zilla van den Born, 25, faked a five-week vacation in Southeast Asia

“Everybody knows that pictures of models are manipulated."

“My goal was to prove how common and easy it is to distort reality.”

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Billy86 wrote: »

You... do know countries have been donating ambulances and ambulance equipment to Syria for ages, right?

http://www.helprefugees.org.uk/2016/02/12/oz-shows-us-round-the-ambulances-donated-to-syria/

http://www.cornishman.co.uk/volunteers-send-ambulance-syria-penzance/story-29403611-detail/story.html
(because your above post makes it clear you'll think Pencanze is in the middle east, I'll let you know it is right down the south west of England)

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/03/uk-syria-aid-viewed-through-lens-terror-2014312905890256.html



Going by your comments on the bleeding & lack of crying, I can only assume your post is a piss take!

Yes absolutely. Irony is difficult but this was really obvious. Why the F anybody would think this is fake is beyond me. The sad arsehole who put together that evidence on that website should get his head checked.

Billy86

Jase Round Self-incrimination wrote: »

Yes absolutely. Irony is difficult but this was really obvious. Why the F anybody would think this is fake is beyond me. The sad arsehole who put together that evidence on that website should get his head checked.

Sadly, such is the mental state of some people on AH that you could say almost literally anything and it would be hard to tell if you were serious of not...basic coherence and sentence structure isn't really even a requirement for some!

Elmer Blooker

Nermal wrote: »

How come it's over every newspaper, front page and TV channel, when the film of the child being beheaded by the 'moderate rebels' was not?

It's a very powerful photo, but have you asked yourself why it's being pushed in your face?

The Saudi bombardment of civilians in Yemen goes almost unnoticed too.
The fact that the Saudis are armed and supported by the west might just have something to do with it.

lawred2

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

No. It is totally fake and phony.
If people could only think for themselves and not believe EVERYTHING they see and read in the media. None of this war porn from Aleppo is sourced from real journalists but from "civil defense" aid workers.
https://off-guardian.org/2016/08/18/media-using-pro-al-nusra-media-center-as-source-for-war-propaganda/
*note I used S and not C in defence.

to what ends?

conorhal

RandomName2 wrote: »

Is it powerful imagery: yes
Should its authenticity be verified: I suppose
Should it inform our foreign policy: no

I don't have much time for people whose recognition of horror is directly proportional to the number of pixels used to record it.

The problem is that such photos are increasingly used, and I do mean used, as propaganda to advance a particular agenda by promoting a degree of emotional incontinence amongst people and encouraging them to disengage rationality and ignore context. It was pictures like this that were employed by the media to force interventions in Syria and Libya. ‘Something must be done, they’re killing civilians!’ was the standard refrain and that lead to no fly zones, limited air intervention, drone strikes and arming some very dubious people that sat under the broad umbrella of the ‘Free Syrian Army’, who hold Aleppo BTW. Which lead to rolling and constant civil war that will kill far more people then had the West stayed out it.

lawred2

conorhal wrote: »

The problem is that such photos are increasingly used, and I do mean used, as propaganda to advance a particular agenda by promoting a degree of emotional incontinence amongst people and encouraging them to disengage rationality and ignore context. It was pictures like this that were employed by the media to force interventions in Syria and Libya. ‘Something must be done, they’re killing civilians!’ was the standard refrain and that lead to no fly zones, limited air intervention, drone strikes and arming some very dubious people that sat under the broad umbrella of the ‘Free Syrian Army’, who hold Aleppo BTW. Which lead to rolling and constant civil war that will kill far more people then had the West stayed out it.

You hold that that's not a valid refrain?

Elmer Blooker

Deleted User wrote: »

There's someone who has spectacularly missed the point and linked some about politics, the source of the video etc. in my OP I even said I did not want an analysis of who did it or the war itself. Indeed your very post underlines the point I was making, about the power of images...in this instance you linked a news source that is so alarmed about the power that they ascribe it to some other side.

The article does not state the video was faked. It suggests the child did not sustain serious injury. Which I knew. In fact, as was carried in the media, his entire family survived.

Maybe you should read my link again. The source of the video is the Aleppo Media Center (not centre!) If people want to believe what they are telling you that's fine with me.

bmwguy

People saying the video is fake, i'm as cynical as they come but I don't believe it is. Just very powerful image caught on camera.

The tv presenter has crocodile tears though. And a great big pair of boobs, nice looking bird.

I'd say she was off air saying how did I do, did I look devastated? It wouldn't have been the first time she saw it so why the tears? Kudos on the boobs though.

conorhal

lawred2 wrote: »

You hold that that's not a valid refrain?

Not if it means you then back a side that kills even more civillians then the people killing civillians. I have no truck with interventionism, stay out of other peoples civil wars that have noting to do with us.

Billy86

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Maybe you should read my link again. The source of the video is the Aleppo Media Center (not centre!) If people want to believe what they are telling you that's fine with me.

Funny, because that link keeps linking to tweets etcthe the Aleppo Media Centre, while claiming things are coming from the 'Aleppo Media Center' which they never link to, and which Google is giving me no results for (they're all for Aleppo Media Centre).

It seems your link (Off Guardian) really do have a lot of time and appreciation for Putin and Trump though. Which was... less than shocking to me.