Rio boxing Controversies

mansize

A big name gone!

https://twitter.com/gregbeacham/status/766331401465626624

mansize

#Rio2016  #boxing  M.Basi UK,K.Yakoub ALG,M.Gallagher IRL,M.Gorny POL,V.Malyshev RUS, G.Poggi ARG,R.Rysbayev KAZ entire #AIBA exec sent home?

Joe_ Public

mansize wrote: »

#Rio2016 #boxing M.Basi UK,K.Yakoub ALG,M.Gallagher IRL,M.Gorny POL,V.Malyshev RUS, G.Poggi ARG,R.Rysbayev KAZ entire #AIBA exec sent home?

Has Gallagher actually being sent home? His son tweeted earlier he was still there working? Who's account is accurate?

mansize

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Has Gallagher actually being sent home? His son tweeted earlier he was still there working? Who's account is accurate?

This guy is just saying r/j's that didn't officiate

His son has verified nothing IMHO

mansize

Gallagher not on tonight either

Joe_ Public

mansize wrote: »

This guy is just saying r/j's that didn't officiate

His son has verified nothing IMHO

I guess it's still possible Gallagher is there "working" but that doesn't necessarily mean he's reffing or judging. There's something definitley going on within AIBA there but it's about as clear as mud at this stage.

Strazdas

Just shows the impact Conlan's protests had. This is not some Mickey Mouse boxer losing a Round of 32 match but a reigning World Champion calling them out.

mansize

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I guess it's still possible Gallagher is there "working" but that doesn't necessarily mean he's reffing or judging. There's something definitley going on within AIBA there but it's about as clear as mud at this stage.

IABA like IOC OCI or FIFA don't do transparency

Opaqueness is the word

mansize

Strazdas wrote: »

Just shows the impact Conlan's protests had. This is not some Mickey Mouse boxer losing a Round of 32 match but a reigning World Champion calling them out.

Yes - and that's why I stand over what Mick did!

nacho libre

Strazdas wrote: »

Just shows the impact Conlan's protests had. This is not some Mickey Mouse boxer losing a Round of 32 match but a reigning World Champion calling them out.

Walshb does not agree, he thinks if Michael had being polite and measured this would have happened anyway. If only we had sliding doors..

Strazdas

mansize wrote: »

Yes - and that's why I stand over what Mick did!

They picked the wrong guy to mess with. It's precisely because he is the reigning World Champion that gave him the freedom to call them them out. They seriously underestimated him.....he's an intelligent and articulate young man with a strong presence on social media and is well respected within the sport.

Joe_ Public

The International Boxing Association (AIBA) has announced the dismissal of executive director Ho Kim and appointed Karim Bouzidi as his replacement. In a statement, AIBA did not specify its reason for firing the South Korean official, who has held his position for the past eight years. Bouzidi, AIBA’s deputy executive director, steps up to replace Kim with immediate effect. He also remains chief executive of the AIBA-organised World Series of Boxing.

What is interesting about this story from last year is that Kim was fired from the job in the wake of the Asian Games where there were howls of protests at many of the judging decisions which hugely favoured South Korea, the host nation. It isn't far off a mirror image of what is now happening in Rio, although Bouzidi has been reassigned as opposed to fired.

mansize

https://twitter.com/shirleybar/status/766354936061919232

Well I lolled

Strazdas

Buncey saying on RTE News he doesn't think Nikitin should even have been passed fit for the Conlan fight after his injuries from the Thai boxer and he wasn't surprised in the slightest that he was bleeding right from the start.

The whole thing stinks tbh....perhaps the original plan was for Nikitin to win the gold medal but everything unravelled.

mansize

http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/where-have-the-five-star-aiba-judges-gone/

Where are the 5* R/J's???

Strazdas

mansize wrote: »

http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/where-have-the-five-star-aiba-judges-gone/

Where are the 5* R/J's???

Very interesting. These are the so called "magnificent seven" who are regarded as the elite judges of AIBA. Rumour has it that they are all powerful and they pick who referees the fights. One wonders if there is internal fighting within AIBA if they have been stood down (it's perfectly possible there are some good people in there trying to make the best of things).

mansize

https://twitter.com/joesondow/status/692170578023862273

Magnificent 7 meeting

mansize

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Has Gallagher actually being sent home? His son tweeted earlier he was still there working? Who's account is accurate?

Where's his papa gone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay6CIDryEAQ

mansize

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/irish-boxing-imploding-no-this-was-world-boxing-1.2762318?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Irish Times' report on boxing at Rio

Joe_ Public

mansize wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/irish-boxing-imploding-no-this-was-world-boxing-1.2762318?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Irish Times' report on boxing at Rio

God, I hope we can read some better pieces than that this weekend.

1. What point is Antia making in referring back to Doha last year? Billy Walsh was head of the team in Doha.

2. What difference does it make who gave the supplement to O'Reilly?

3. Why does Pat Ryan have to clarify his position in relation to MO'R? He's his club coach. We all know that.

The pre-Games camp is damning stuff, should have delved more into that. Easy to blame the IABA but why did they let themselves into such a situation? The pre-Games camps previous to 2008 and 2012 were superb, planned down to the very last detail. Nobody seems to come out of this smelling of roses imo.

Strazdas

Joe_ Public wrote: »

God, I hope we can read some better pieces than that this weekend.

1. What point is Antia making in referring back to Doha last year? Billy Walsh was head of the team in Doha.

2. What difference does it make who gave the supplement to O'Reilly?

3. Why does Pat Ryan have to clarify his position in relation to MO'R? He's his club coach. We all know that.

The pre-Games camp is damning stuff, should have delved more into that. Easy to blame the IABA but why did they let themselves into such a situation? The pre-Games camps previous to 2008 and 2012 were superb, planned down to the very last detail. Nobody seems to come out of this smelling of roses imo.

A whole load of things seem to have gone wrong at the same time. The MOR affair and the Irish judge talking to the Guardian, perhaps leaving AIBA hostile towards the Irish team.

Shoddy preparation at the Irish end and some of the boxers looking unfit in their first fight (Zaur seemed under serious pressure in Rio and as if he was barely coping with the job).

You'd have to think much of this goes back to the absence of Billy Walsh, the decision to shaft him is beginning to look unbelievably short sighted.

Strazdas

pac_man wrote: »

Which boxers looked unfit?

Barnes and Taylor for sure and perhaps Joe Ward too (he spent much of the fight holding his opponent rather than doing any boxing).

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

Which boxers looked unfit?

This unfit claim/angle puzzles me. I posted on another thread.

Come off it. Ward has always had issues about his conditioning, plus his loss was very little to do with conditioning. Katie has looked more tired in plenty of other winning fights, and that includes with Pete in her corner. Barnes, I don't entertain that. Barnes was telling anyone that would listen than he was the gold medal winner. He then fights a tremendous scrap, even probably over-cooking it, and after come the excuses and red herrings. No, Pete and the over-training angles is just lazy and clutching.

Joe_ Public

Some people are saying they were unfit? Others suggesting they were over-trained? Which is it? Got to be either one or the other surely.

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Some people are saying they were unfit? Others suggesting they were over-trained? Which is it? Got to be either one or the other surely.

I took it that over-trained can lead to being unfit. It has a negative effect. Over-doing training can actually make you less cardio fit, hence being 'unfit,' or not at your optimum fitness level. Anyway, it's a lazy angle.

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

I took it that over-trained can lead to being unfit. It has a negative effect. Over-doing training can actually make you less cardio fit, hence being 'unfit,' or not at your optimum fitness level. Anyway, it's a lazy angle.

I don't think so. Unfit means not training, lack of conditioning, too much of the high life etc. Thats not what happened here. Anyway, I don't personally buy the over-trained angle myself, or at least I believe we dont have enough information to make such a diagnosis, whatever the likes of Pete Taylor or Andy Lee say.

Strazdas

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I don't think so. Unfit means not training, lack of conditioning, too much of the high life etc. Thats not what happened here. Anyway, I don't personally buy the over-trained angle myself, or at least I believe we dont have enough information to make such a diagnosis, whatever the likes of Pete Taylor or Andy Lee say.

To me, overtrained can definitely mean unfit. If you're gassing during the first or second round, then you're unfit in my book : doesn't matter whether you've under trained or overtrained before the fight.

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I don't think so. Unfit means not training, lack of conditioning, too much of the high life etc. Thats not what happened here. Anyway, I don't personally buy the over-trained angle myself, or at least I believe we dont have enough information to make such a diagnosis, whatever the likes of Pete Taylor or Andy Lee say.

But being unfit in boxing for an elite can be due to over-training.That was my point. There is a link. Of course, being unfit for an elite can also be due to not putting in the necessary hard work and effort.

From what I saw with my own eyes nothing stood out for me from any of them to suggest it point to them lacking fitness (unfit being a bad description) or bring over/trained (whatever the hell that looks like, other than maybe looking jaded and sluggish).

walshb

Surely we can agree that the term unfit here is inaccurate and misleading. I'd much prefer using the term lacking real boxing fitness. These lads are ultra fit as it stands. Outsiders and casual-non boxing fans may be reading this thinking if the lads as not at all up to it, when that couldn't be further from the truth.

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

I don't buy into the "they looked unfit".You don't just turn up to an Olympics unfit. Joe Ward looked in the best shape of his life and he lost that fight more down questionable refereeing.

I do believe that Barnes was affected by the weight. It was fairly evident as Barnes is usually alot more industrious. He maintains he fought that fight 3 hours after the weigh in.

Fought the fight 3 hrs after weigh in? But, surely the other guy did too, no? So it's a completely irrelevant point. It's moaning. Plus, almost every boxer, and particularly the really lower Wright guys are affected by maintaining weight.

I agree with the rest of the post. Ward's fight and performance was next to nothing to go with fitness it conditioning. Ward simply met an awkward for, a warning happy referee, and Ward just wasn't really up to it.

CatFromHue

mansize wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/irish-boxing-imploding-no-this-was-world-boxing-1.2762318?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Irish Times' report on boxing at Rio

The ‘tapering camp’ outside Rio that the Irish team travelled to before the Games began was also entirely unsuitable, almost absurdly so. Airplanes were taking off or landing every few minutes. The team stayed there one day before leaving.
“Who the hell signed off on that? Who visited?” says Bolger. “Did someone not see jumbo jets taking off every 55 seconds because I timed it. Also would you not ask the question is there hot water here?
“There wasn’t a gym. A taper camp is to reduce mental fatigue and physical fatigue. We’d no hot water. No bed sheets. The beds were seven feet from the floor. It wasn’t good.”

:eek:

Strazdas

walshb wrote: »

But being unfit in boxing for an elite can be due to over-training.That was my point. There is a link. Of course, being unfit for an elite can also be due to not putting in the necessary hard work and effort.

From what I saw with my own eyes nothing stood out for me from any of them to suggest it point to them lacking fitness (unfit being a bad description) or bring over/trained (whatever the hell that looks like, other than maybe looking jaded and sluggish).

Overtrained would indeed manifest itself as looking tired and sluggish and laboured in the ring, rather than being light on your feet and being able to move around freely.

What would make people suspicious is that several Irish boxers lost their opening bouts which would have been unheard of at recent Games.

Joe_ Public

CatFromHue wrote: »

The ‘tapering camp’ outside Rio that the Irish team travelled to before the Games began was also entirely unsuitable, almost absurdly so. Airplanes were taking off or landing every few minutes. The team stayed there one day before leaving.
“Who the hell signed off on that? Who visited?” says Bolger. “Did someone not see jumbo jets taking off every 55 seconds because I timed it. Also would you not ask the question is there hot water here?
“There wasn’t a gym. A taper camp is to reduce mental fatigue and physical fatigue. We’d no hot water. No bed sheets. The beds were seven feet from the floor. It wasn’t good.”



:eek:

Hammocks!

Strazdas

Double post

Strazdas

CatFromHue wrote: »

Quote:
The ‘tapering camp’ outside Rio that the Irish team travelled to before the Games began was also entirely unsuitable, almost absurdly so. Airplanes were taking off or landing every few minutes. The team stayed there one day before leaving.
“Who the hell signed off on that? Who visited?” says Bolger. “Did someone not see jumbo jets taking off every 55 seconds because I timed it. Also would you not ask the question is there hot water here?
“There wasn’t a gym. A taper camp is to reduce mental fatigue and physical fatigue. We’d no hot water. No bed sheets. The beds were seven feet from the floor. It wasn’t good.”

:eek:

Would I be correct to assume that this is something that Billy Walsh would have overseen in the past?

Water John

Would it be like the Irish rugby team in 2007? Had done an awful lot of fitness routines and not enough ball handling skills. More sparring, less PE needed.

Strazdas

Water John wrote: »

Would it be like the Irish rugby team in 2007? Had done an awful lot of fitness routines and not enough ball handling skills. More sparring, less PE needed.

The Irish soccer team at Euro 2012 too. By all accounts, the training under Trap was harsh and the team was knackered by the time of the Croatia game.

barney4001

dos anyone think ireland will ever get the chance to host the olympic games ??

Joe_ Public

barney4001 wrote: »

dos anyone think ireland will ever get the chance to host the olympic games ??

If Gay Mitchell had joined FF and hooked up with Bertie, we'd have hosted two Games by now and would be bidding for a third.

Joe_ Public

Water John wrote: »

Would it be like the Irish rugby team in 2007? Had done an awful lot of fitness routines and not enough ball handling skills. More sparring, less PE needed.

I wouldn't think so as I'm sure sparring would simply be part of the "over trained" angle. Maybe they're are actual boxers here who will correct me, but sparring can be among the most intense and physical training a fighter will do.

Strazdas

barney4001 wrote: »

dos anyone think ireland will ever get the chance to host the olympic games ??

Unlikely I would have thought. We're a bit on the small side to host such a vast event.

Joeseph Balls

barney4001 wrote: »

dos anyone think ireland will ever get the chance to host the olympic games ??

Not a hope Barney, we don't have near enough of the facilities needed unfortunately.

mansize

Where? Dublin is not big enough to host the games.

mansize

https://twitter.com/tomlyonsbiz/status/767419556356886528

Joe_ Public

mansize wrote: »

https://twitter.com/tomlyonsbiz/status/767419556356886528

Read that article earlier this morning. Some very good lines in it. He's particularly right to say this has all gone on before but we only care now because our own lad got done.

Akrasia

barney4001 wrote: »

dos anyone think ireland will ever get the chance to host the olympic games ??

If Dublin could find a spare 13 billion euros down the back of the sofa we'd be perfect to host the Olympics

Athens hosted the Olympics despite having a population similar to Dublin

They made about a 13 billion euros loss and out of 22 venues used for the games are unused and falling apart today.

Strazdas

Pete Taylor spoke to TV3's Sunday AM today. The Examiner have the full interview if anyone fancies a peek :

http://www.irishexaminer.com/rioolympics/rioolympics-news/watch-katie-taylors-father-explain-how-irish-boxing-team-became-a-mess-after-coach-billy-walsh-left-750739.html

mansize

Akrasia wrote: »

If Dublin could find a spare 13 billion euros down the back of the sofa we'd be perfect to host the Olympics

Athens hosted the Olympics despite having a population similar to Dublin

They made about a 13 billion euros loss and out of 22 venues used for the games are unused and falling apart today.

Athens only got it on historical basis

Joe_ Public

Strazdas wrote: »

Pete Taylor spoke to TV3's Sunday AM today. The Examiner have the full interview if anyone fancies a peek :

http://www.irishexaminer.com/rioolympics/rioolympics-news/watch-katie-taylors-father-explain-how-irish-boxing-team-became-a-mess-after-coach-billy-walsh-left-750739.html

Pete's a good coach and I agree with a lot of what he says but he's a bit OTT in parts and I doubt Katie would be thanking him for what he said about Kelly Harrington.

mansize

The AIBA and Wu made me think of this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpko_hXWb7Q

Lyaiera

I think people talking about Irish boxing, and saying how we got screwed is ignoring everything that happened. Every country has problems, every country faces issues (well most countries anyway.) Irish boxing had an internal problem this time, and destabilising events happened everywhere. Our own problems that previously would have caused a small issue compounded. Ireland has had the bounce of the ball many times, we didn't here. Some boxers lost where previously they might have been given a win. Some boxers lost with no doubt that it was entirely the correct decision. Irish boxing's results are almost entirely attributable to Irish boxing. There was a bigger controversy, one that we got caught up in in one fight definitely, and you could make tenuous links to one or two other fights. But this was not a case of Irish boxing getting screwed, it was happening to everyone. This is not about Ireland, it's purely an excuse that seems legitimate being used for every Irish boxing loss, not the one fight it was definitely an issue for in Ireland.

It was in no way universal, it in no way happened to everyone. There were limited cases of strange things happening, and it is only by looking at the whole event that you can see what was going on. One boxer losing unfairly happens. A boxer was given a win he didn't deserve, he was destroyed by his opponent who cut him open, out fought him and somehow he won. It happens. The problem is he went on to another fight where the same thing happens. Clearly out fought, whatever metric you take. In one round the losing boxer was tactically superior, and more effective than his opponent who was scoring more as a brawler, but he lost that round. Then he changed his style to brawling, and completely dominated again. And lost one of those two rounds. The boxer who had been physically abused in his previous fight had the same happen in this fight. But he somehow won. He was so badly beaten he was ruled out of the semi-final on medical advice. This was Conlan's fight, with Thai boxer Chatchai Budtee unfairly losing in the previous rounds.

The Russian's got the call in other fights. The final against Levit, and another fight against a Colombian boxer, Ceiber Avila. I haven't watched all the fights, not even half of them. But Michael Conlan, Chatchai Budtee, Ceiber Avila and Levit are all fights I saw live, are all fights I saw given to the winner incorrectly, and are all fights involving Russians.

Ceiber Avila unfairly lost to Mikhail Ayolan from my view of the fight. Ayolan winning a medal (silver) is not unexpected. He is one of the best in the world, and has already won a medal in the Olympics at London. He would have been expected to win that fight, that he won is not a surprise, but if you look at the fight it adds to suspicions. A close fight goes to a predicted (and former) medalist is not a shock. But when it's happening elsewhere it adds to the overall story.

I think something happened. I think it involves Russia, but I do not think it is Russians at the Olympics who benefited most. Nor were they the No. 1 intended benefactor. Especially if you look at other countries with strong ties to Russia.

Ayolan lost to someone from Uzbekistan in the final. I think that was the result that was wanted. I think if anyone was exerting influence they would be more happy at the line-up of that final, and not as bothered by any gold/silver result. I think Uzbekistan's results and fights should be looked at. I haven't seen as many of their fights as with the Russians, but I was far more suspicious of their fights I did see. Uzbekistan had their best ever Olympics. In a large part due to their boxing. They won seven boxing medals, three gold, two silver, and two bronze. At the 2012 Olympics they won one bronze at boxing. In 2008 in boxing no medals, 2004 two bronze, 2000 one gold, two bronze. 2012 for them was pretty bad, 2016 their best ever. In 2014 Russia wrote off all of the debt Uzbekistan owed to them. And Russia has been trying to increase the friendliness of their relations for over a decade.

The amount of Azerbaijani boxers at the Olympics after hosting the IOC's Pat Hickey created European Games adds to it all. The Pat Hickey created European games that got a lot of support (including financial) from hosts Azerbaijan, Russia, and other former Soviet Block countries. It was part of the qualifying pathway to the Olympics. Russia dominated in the medals, followed by Azerbaijan. Great Britain came third.

Azerbaijan had two boxers in Beijing, eight in London (along with other controversy,) and 11 in Rio.

Of the nations qualifying GBR and Kazakhstan had 12 boxers. The countries that brought 11 boxers were; Azerbaijan, Cuba, France, Russia and Uzbekistan.

I think some things should be looked at further. Some of those numbers are probably not unfair on anyone. But when you look at trends...