Belgard Solicitors District Court Claim

Nwarner

Hello,

I have known all along that burying my head in the sand would get me nowhere but I continued to not be able to face up to my debt of €12k which originated as MBNA/Avant Card and was passed to Cabot. About 3 years ago I stopped making payments as we were unable to make our mortgage payments and couldn't risk loosing our home. To make matters worse My husband is not aware of this debt.

Tonight I answered the door to a man who served me with paperwork - a District Court Claim from Belgard Solicitors.

I need to know how I can avoid going to court, I cannot offer a lump sum to pay off this debt but now would be able to pay €150 - €200 at a push per month towards the debt. My fear is that it is now too late to agree a payment plan.

I am terrified. Please can anyone offer any helpful advice? I am worried that my husband & three children will loose our home.

Nedser101

Offer them lump sum maybe 1000 they only paid cents in the euro for the debt other than that I'd go to court

Fred Swanson

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Bigus

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Agreed,

to add clarity

You file an appearance to defend the claim directly with the court not Belgard solicitors, there might be a fee of 10€ .

Your defence could be a number of things which don't need to be cited yet, one being inability to pay.

Worst case scenario is that a judge will eventually hear both sides of the case.

Most if not Judges will be much more willing to here your side of the story and will be inclined to be more favourable to you than a company that bought the debt cheap , so the companies rely on the threat of court to squeeze money from you, but they might be on shaky ground too as said above, or the judge might award them what he thinks you can afford to pay weekly.

But remember the 12k debt may have been bought for 100, 500 or any fraction of the original amount .

All they want is money , so no fear of any other sanction like Jail or conviction.

Talk to citizen information for help on the legal side or a solicitor

Nwarner

Thank you all for your helpful responses, I'll have a day of thinking and figure out what I need to do next, I'm sure I will have a few questions for you all later! For now, I have noticed in the two area's on the Claim Notice to be signed by Belgard Solicitors that the signatures are missing. Do you know if this is relevant or not? The document is however stamped and dated by the District Court Office. Any thoughts about the missing signatures are very welcome.

punisher5112

Nwarner wrote: »

Thank you all for your helpful responses, I'll have a day of thinking and figure out what I need to do next, I'm sure I will have a few questions for you all later! For now, I have noticed in the two area's on the Claim Notice to be signed by Belgard Solicitors that the signatures are missing. Do you know if this is relevant or not? The document is however stamped and dated by the District Court Office. Any thoughts about the missing signatures are very welcome.

Solicitors and the likes of big organisations don't have to sign.

alig123aileen

A form not signed is not valid in law in so far as I know. Cabot/ Belgard <snip> to people to frighten them into payment

ScouseMouse

May I suggest you sit down and tell your husband? At least with his support, it will assist you with the pressure you are feeling?

Fred Swanson

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punisher5112

Fred Swanson wrote: »

They have to sign in the name of the firm, which is nowt more than a squiggle.

It can be printed straight from printer.

newacc2015

First of all, that debt has a statue of limitations. They have 6 years to recover the debt of which they have 3 years left. If you make a payment now, you will reset the statue and they will have another 6 years to recover the debt.

Here is a few interesting posts on Cabot regarding "Belgard Solicitors"

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/letter-from-debt-collection-agency-cabot-financial.146970/

Here is a solution and the fact you could discharged from the debt within 3 years

http://www.debtadviceireland.ie/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=76


What is your current financial situation re your mortgage that you were in difficulty with? You might be better going for a form of insolvency if you are in financial difficult for both

I think should call MABS tomorrow and explain your situation. The courts are very fond of looking after the person in debt. You might end up in Court and ordered to pay a token payment of €10 per month to them.

You will not loose your home. This debt is unsecured and can easily be written off under the new types of insolvency law

Alfa Mark

I received a District Court claim from Belgard Solicitors for an MBNA credit card debt(€8k now 10k with interest and fees). Long story short, I ran into financial difficulties in 2008 and have gradually sorted out all my debts with the exception of this one. All other creditors accepted payment plans (all were paid in full) except MBNA who rejected my offers. They sold the account to Avant who have now sold it to Cabot Financial/Belgard Solicitors.

My plan is to send the court my notice to defend and send Belgard a full disclosure request so that I can see all of my file that they possess.

I would really like to get this matter closed and avoid court. I could get together maybe €1k as an offer of a once of payment.

Has anyone else gone to court or settled with them?

alig123aileen

Sorry to hear of your experience. You should in the first place establish the notice you received is an actual court notice as Belgard/Cabot issue fake ones all the time. Check with your local court. If the notice is genuine all it is is asking you to put your defence in writing to them which you appear to have already done though there is no harm in restating it. I would be inclined to deal with AVANT only even if they appear not to want to deal with you. Under new Regulator rules you have to sign that you consent to Cabot/Belgard Solicitors taking over the debt from Avant and it doesn't appear that this was done? Also Cabot/Belgard will only agree a verbal repayment and will come back for more all the time effectively it will be a high interest loan and more pressure will be put on you all the time. Yes you could call their bluff and ask them to draw up a contract where you will pay Belgard X in full and final settlement of the debt to Avant but I am fairly certain they wont do this. They prefer to hassle people by phone for payment agreements then change them and increase the repayment whenever they want. Good luck and I hope all goes ok for you.

punisher5112

Alfa Mark wrote: »

I received a District Court claim from Belgard Solicitors for an MBNA credit card debt(€8k now 10k with interest and fees). Long story short, I ran into financial difficulties in 2008 and have gradually sorted out all my debts with the exception of this one. All other creditors accepted payment plans (all were paid in full) except MBNA who rejected my offers. They sold the account to Avant who have now sold it to Cabot Financial/Belgard Solicitors.

My plan is to send the court my notice to defend and send Belgard a full disclosure request so that I can see all of my file that they possess.

I would really like to get this matter closed and avoid court. I could get together maybe €1k as an offer of a once of payment.

Has anyone else gone to court or settled with them?

When was the last time you made a payment on this?

adam88

Bigus wrote: »

Agreed,

to add clarity

You file an appearance to defend the claim directly with the court not Belgard solicitors, there might be a fee of 10€ .

Your defence could be a number of things which don't need to be cited yet, one being inability to pay.

Worst case scenario is that a judge will eventually hear both sides of the case.

Most if not Judges will be much more willing to here your side of the story and will be inclined to be more favourable to you than a company that bought the debt cheap , so the companies rely on the threat of court to squeeze money from you, but they might be on shaky ground too as said above, or the judge might award them what he thinks you can afford to pay weekly.

But remember the 12k debt may have been bought for 100, 500 or any fraction of the original amount .

All they want is money , so no fear of any other sanction like Jail or conviction.

Talk to citizen information for help on the legal side or a solicitor

Would they have really bought that debt for that cheap ??

Alfa Mark

I'll have to confirm if the court papers are genuine(they look to be so). The debt is over 6 years old but I have acknowledged it with MBNA and AVANT in the last few years so it's not statue barred which is fine. I do owe money to MBNA/AVANT, though I dispute the amount due to interest and fees. I have tried to settle with them(payment plan offers) but to no avail. Perhaps a court hearing is best to bring this matter to a close as I really would like to be out of debt in the next year or so.

Wasphead

Hi Alfa Mark, sounds like you're in the same boat as me, they refuse to take my money too!

yosser hughes

Let them have their day in court. They are hoping you cough up the money before it comes to that.
If you don't have it you don't have and no judge is going to penalise you for that.
It is unsecured debt. You will not lose your home over a credit card debt.
There is very very little they can do to you.

Wasphead

I certainly don't have a lump sum to pay them. But I am willing to pay something. Sure look, worse things going on in the world!

Alfa Mark

Data protection request letter sent to Cabot on Thursday, lets see what they have or if they request a fee (€6.35).

District court notice to defend stamped by court officer (no fee) and sent to Belgard Solicitors on Friday. Court officer told me that's all I have to do at present and it's up to them now if they want a court date.

I'll update with any news.

Wasphead - how far down the road are you with them? My district court notice was received by me 13/02/17.

Wasphead

Much the same as you, I got my claim notice a couple of weeks ago, and I have submitted my notice to defend. Court officer basically said print three copys of everything you plan to use in your defense. One for Cabot, one for the court and one for yourself. So whatever you send to Cabot, you send to the court, they must do the same. I'm gonna send a data protection request too this week.
My feeling is, that someone along the line complained Belgard for issueing false claim notices under the "non fatal offences against the person act" and so to get around that they now pay for official ones in an attempt to rattle the piggy bank a little harder.
If they can prove to the court they own the debt then we are liable for the debt to them, but the court takes control of how the debt is paid by virtue of means, or ability to pay. So unless you have the money to pay in a lump, court is not really as good an option for them, especially if you've already made an offer to pay. The court may decide you pay less per month to them.
Really all anyone has to do is decide whether not they are willing to stand up in court and put their case to the judge, then the judge decides.

Fred Swanson

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weshtawake

I hope the OP doesn't mind me jumping in here with my own situation. Again, it is an old Credit Card debt owed to BoI. I t has been handed over to a "reputable" law firm in Dublin for collection. I had been paying of at the rate of €150 per month which I was just about able to afford. I made an offer of a one-time, closure payment of €2500 around Xmas (total owed approx. €8500) which was rejected. The latest missive from these solicitors is that they have "obtained judgment against me" for the total amount plus interest etc and are threatening if its not paid that they will register with the High Court, publish in Gazette, get Sheriff after me etc etc. Real scary stuff!!
Could they have obtained a Judgment without my knowledge or opportunity to defend or is this more scare tactics more in line with the modus operandi of a ex-criminal debt collectors?

Wasphead

Fred Swanson wrote: »

SNIP

That's right Fred, I hadn't planned to.

Fred Swanson

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Iseedeadpixels

Ugh Cabot financial, profiteering from peoples misfortune!

Wasphead

Ugh Cabot financial, profiteering from peoples misfortune!
__________________

I would not take the word of Cabot/Belgard Solicitors regarding anything. Investigate for yourself and keep copies of everything they send, if you do end up in court then their duplicity should count against them. They are tactitians, if you offered them a lump sum, they might think you have more available for extraction. Again, do not believe a word from these reprobates.

weshtawake

Is there any grounds for calling them out on their downright lies i.e. telling me they have a Judgment against me when clearly they do not!

Wasphead

Is there any grounds for calling them out on their downright lies i.e. telling me they have a Judgment against me when clearly they do not!

I don't know, but I keep on refering them to this Act;

NON-FATAL OFFENCES AGAINST THE PERSON ACT, 1997.
11.—(1) A person who makes any demand for payment of a debt shall be guilty of an offence if—
(a) the demands by reason of their frequency are calculated to subject the debtor or a member of the family of the debtor to alarm, distress or humiliation, or
(b) the person falsely represents that criminal proceedings lie for non-payment of the debt, or
(c) the person falsely represents that he or she is authorised in some official capacity to enforce payment, or
(d) the person utters a document falsely represented to have an official character.
(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,500.

Fred Swanson

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alig123aileen

Cabot Financial /Belgard Solicitors are unregulated so don't come within the remit of the Financial Regulator. AVANT/MNNA were regulated by the Finaincial Regulator . MBNA/AVANT terms and conditions say if they reassign your debt they will guard your rigfhts under the agreement and you wont be at a disadvantage but by transferring it to an unregulated entity they have not safeguarded your rights .I am quite confident you will win this with the regulator and AVAN/MBNA/Belgard Solicitors. (I won my case on this basis) . Cabot/Belgard know this. All Cabot want is to get a commitment from you over the phone on a repayment and when you agree they will hassle you very soon again to up the payment. One option is to write to them and request sight of the deed of assignment made by MBNA/AVANT to them (this is evidence to you that MNBA/AVANT sold the debt to Belgard/Cabot plus ask them to draw up legal contract for you to repay X a wk/month towards the debt (make an offer of a very small payment each week over 20 yrs!) and you will get your solicitor to review. I can assure you the letters and phone calls will stop very swiftly and they will not send you proof of the debt being transferred from MBNA/AVANT to them) . I have personal experience of dealing with Cabot/MBNA/Avant and when challenged by good arguments they always back off. Threaten Data Protection Commissioner on them if you need to - re the passing of incorrect not up to date data on you from MBNA/Avant to Cabot. Belgard are respsonsible for this as the Data Controller.

There are also people on this forum who I helped that will vouch the same as me . Happy to help further if you send me a PM. I don't charge for the service. I see nothing wrong in anybody agreeing a repayment of monies owed its the extortionate penalties and interest that are at the base of this plus the fact you are repaying a completely different unregulated entity that are a shower of cowboys without any legal paperwork in place. Best of luck and please don't worry.

Iseedeadpixels

alig123aileen wrote: »

Cabot Financial /Belgard Solicitors are unregulated so don't come within the remit of the Financial Regulator. AVANT/MNNA were regulated by the Finaincial Regulator . MBNA/AVANT terms and conditions say if they reassign your debt they will guard your rigfhts under the agreement and you wont be at a disadvantage but by transferring it to an unregulated entity they have not safeguarded your rights .I am quite confident you will win this with the regulator and AVAN/MBNA/Belgard Solicitors. (I won my case on this basis) . Cabot/Belgard know this. All Cabot want is to get a commitment from you over the phone on a repayment and when you agree they will hassle you very soon again to up the payment. One option is to write to them and request sight of the deed of assignment made by MBNA/AVANT to them (this is evidence to you that MNBA/AVANT sold the debt to Belgard/Cabot plus ask them to draw up legal contract for you to repay X a wk/month towards the debt (make an offer of a very small payment each week over 20 yrs!) and you will get your solicitor to review. I can assure you the letters and phone calls will stop very swiftly and they will not send you proof of the debt being transferred from MBNA/AVANT to them) . I have personal experience of dealing with Cabot/MBNA/Avant and when challenged by good arguments they always back off. Threaten Data Protection Commissioner on them if you need to - re the passing of incorrect not up to date data on you from MBNA/Avant to Cabot. Belgard are respsonsible for this as the Data Controller.

There are also people on this forum who I helped that will vouch the same as me . Happy to help further if you send me a PM. I don't charge for the service. I see nothing wrong in anybody agreeing a repayment of monies owed its the extortionate penalties and interest that are at the base of this plus the fact you are repaying a completely different unregulated entity that are a shower of cowboys without any legal paperwork in place. Best of luck and please don't worry.

Wish I found you a few years ago!!! So many run ins with Martina in Cabot :pac:

Alfa Mark

€6.35 fee requested. I've sent Cabot a postal order along with the request now.

Alfa Mark

Data from Cabot received. Is there a time limit from when I filed my appearance and defence notice and sent it to Belgard Solicitors for them to follow through on a court date?

Fred Swanson

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Wasphead

Hi Alfa Mark, have you been in contact with alig123aileen? She has some good advice that might put a stop to Cabot.
Did they supply you with the Deed of Assignment? They have that on my Claim Notice as a document they would be relying upon in the court proceedings. But to this date they have never produced it to me. I find that strange.

Fred Swanson

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Wasphead

Yeah, but why not supply it to me before they issue proceedings? Just seems peculiar not too, as I have asked them repeatedly.

Fred Swanson

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Wasphead

Yeah, I've requested it from Avantcard too, so it will be interesting to see if they pass it to me. It all seems so idiotic to me, as I was willing to pay them, just not on their terms.

alig123aileen

Alfa Mark wrote: »

Data from Cabot received. Is there a time limit from when I filed my appearance and defence notice and sent it to Belgard Solicitors for them to follow through on a court date?

Hi there if its the usual court notice that's just a last opportunity for you to put your case to the solicitors Many of these documentss are false and designed to intimidate you into payment. You are completely right to pay them on your terms but they will not put anything in writing they will not send you a contract even if you agreed to pay X per month. If you write to them they probably wil not answer. The most important thing is as outlined in this thread is for them to supply evidence of proof of title and proof that the debt was assigned to them. However I have never seen a case where they supply the actual assignment - only the letter to you stating Cabot were taking over the debt which they say is the deed of assignment but it is not. I wold ask them to supply concrete proof they are now owner of the debt and a letter to you does not suffice. Well done on challenging this sort of nonsense and I hope you get the outcome you want.

Alfa Mark

To update - Letter received from Belgard Solicitors saying they received my notice to defend and that their client Cabot are willing to enter into an arrangement to avoid costs and court. I have 14 days to respond

Fred Swanson

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Wasphead

I received a letter from Belgard acknowledgeing my notice to defend, and they are refering to their client for instruction. I thought their clients instruction was to take me to court!!!
This letter came after I made a complaint to the original company Avantcard. I'm still waiting for clarification on a number of issues with Avantcard regarding thier initial response to my complaint, which was effectively full of what I would calls lies.

Alfa Mark

Wasphead, it's the same letter I received. I wonder if they will bring me to court or if it's just another threat.

Fred Swanson

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Wasphead

Hi Alfa Mark, it seems strange that they are concerned about the costs of taking you to court, all of a sudden. I'm sure you have letters telling you that you would have to bear all the costs associated with them taking you to court.
Are they offering to take what you are willing to give them? Or is it the old fill out this statement of means crap again?
I think Fred Swanson has something when he says the majority of people ignore the claim and they get the judgement by default. Once they have judgement they have a legal standing from my understanding.
I wasn't offered an arrangement by the way, maybe it's on the way!

Alfa Mark

This is a summary of the letter...

Belgard are awaiting further instruction from their client Cabot Asset Purchases (Ireland) Ltd. It is Cabot's intention to set this matter down for trial in due course. However, to keep costs for both parties at a minimum, on a strictly without prejudice basis, they are willing to enter into settlement negotiations. Being willing to enter into an agreement will hold off any further legal action. 14 days to respond or they will proceed as normal.

Fred Swanson

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Wasphead

Seems to be another roll of the dice to me. They've registered a claim, but because they are so reasonable they will give you another chance to capitulate to them!

LouG

Alfa Mark wrote: »

This is a summary of the letter...

Belgard are awaiting further instruction from their client Cabot Asset Purchases (Ireland) Ltd. It is Cabot's intention to set this matter down for trial in due course. However, to keep costs for both parties at a minimum, on a strictly without prejudice basis, they are willing to enter into settlement negotiations. Being willing to enter into an agreement will hold off any further legal action. 14 days to respond or they will proceed as normal.

Just sending you PM