High performance unit - Poor Olympic showing.

Danye

Very disappointing to hear John Conlons comments this morning about O'Reilly hot having trained with the HPU 8 weeks prior to the games and that he only met up with the team at the airport.

Plus the issue that he was willing to take a supplement without checking if it was ok and then admitting he knew that it may of contained banned substances.

Then you have the Paddy Barnes weight issue as well!

All this from a team that prided itself on professionalism and leaving no stones unturned. Is this simply because a man of Billy Walshs calibre isn't there or is there a more deep rooted issue?

_Brian

I suppose that's the headline, I'd like to see was that eight weeks planned or did he not turn up to training/meetings for eight weeks. Sounds very like an athlete that went off the rails regarding stress/pressure.

I can't believe that any of the Olympic team had no planned interaction with their high performance coaches for eight weeks prior to the games, it doesn't make sense.

walshb

Let's wait to hear all the details surrounding it. Right now all we have is a radio interview by John Conlon that had a bit of a tone to it. John seemed to want to dig at MOR. There is a dislike for MOR it seems in the camp. That may be justified, but I'd rather wait and hear the actual facts surrounding this before rushing to judgement on it.

The first question(s) I would ask is: Was John Conlon asked to give this interview to RTE.. If so, by who. And why?

Danye

_Brian wrote: »

I suppose that's the headline, I'd like to see was that eight weeks planned or did he not turn up to training/meetings for eight weeks. Sounds very like an athlete that went off the rails regarding stress/pressure.

I can't believe that any of the Olympic team had no planned interaction with their high performance coaches for eight weeks prior to the games, it doesn't make sense.

I imagined, by the tone, it almost seemed as if it was unplanned or that even if it was planned, Conlon didn't agree to it.

Even if it was planned or unplanned it seems bizarre that it could be allowed happen.

If it was unplanned, and MOR did go off the rails, was it right to even bring him??

Danye

walshb wrote: »

Let's wait to hear all the details surrounding it. Right now all we have is a radio interview by John Conlon that had a bit of a tone to it. John seemed to want to dig at MOR. There is a dislike for MOR it seems in the camp. That may be justified, but I'd rather wait and hear the actual facts surrounding this before rushing to judgement on it.

The first question(s) I would ask is: Was John Conlon asked to give this interview to RTE.. If so, by who. And why?

The fact that JC even gave an interview like that would lead me to believe that all is not well in the HPU.

Water John

O'Reilly was away getting his qualification for Rio during those 8 weeks. Why he was not back with the unit after that is the question.

walshb

Danye wrote: »

The fact that JC even gave an interview like that would lead me to believe that all is not well in the HPU.

That's just it. We need to know if the interview was permitted and sanctioned. At this stage with the games still on it doesn't sit well with me that a coach would be giving this type of interview. It sounds like an issue/interview for those in management to be looked at. Surely Conlon didn't just give this interview with no backing/support or sanctioning?

I want to know details and facts, but at the same time I would hope that the IABA conduct it in a professional and above board fashion. Looking at this now it seems a little bit of a free for all, sure, here, you give it a lash there coach!

mansize

The IABA never struck me as professional. Sack Gary Keegan and the president gets High Performance director job...

There is certainly something rotten in the state of Denmark

barney4001

Water John wrote: »

O'Reilly was away getting his qualification for Rio during those 8 weeks. Why he was not back with the unit after that is the question.

could he have been in prison as he had been causeing some trouble and he has a record

Strazdas

Something else that has been overlooked is that this was the decorated Irish team ever to go an Olympic Games, packed with World, European and Commonwealth medalists. To say that this week has been disappointing would be a massive understatement.....nobody seems to have excelled or boxed above themselves.

CatFromHue

barney4001 wrote: »

could he have been in prison as he had been causeing some trouble and he has a record

What's the prison stuff about?

Strazdas

CatFromHue wrote: »

What's the prison stuff about?

Mainly road traffic stuff, driving without insurance etc.

_Brian

My daughter works with the high performance coaches in a different sport and for national competitions there is no way they would intentionally not be working with an athlete in the run up to major competition.. If he went AWOL for 8 weeks, he shouldn't even have been brought !

Andalucia

have the board of the IABA resigned yet?

this is shocking managment or mis-managment of the situation

joke shop, and then the Irish analysts & coaches trying to make excuses - he/she was robbed - the team was way off the pace an poorly prepared which has been borne out by results

as for O'Reilly and the cloak and dagger now about whether he was or wasn't part of the unit - keep the story straight and tell us what he was popping

Strazdas

Andalucia wrote: »

have the board of the IABA resigned yet?

this is shocking managment or mis-managment of the situation

joke shop, and then the Irish analysts & coaches trying to make excuses - he/she was robbed - the team was way off the pace an poorly prepared which has been borne out by results

as for O'Reilly and the cloak and dagger now about whether he was or wasn't part of the unit - keep the story straight and tell us what he was popping

Hard to disagree with this. The performances and results have been really poor given that we're supposed to be a powerhouse nation in amateur boxing these days.

walshb

Strazdas wrote: »

Hard to disagree with this. The performances and results have been really poor given that we're supposed to be a powerhouse nation in amateur boxing these days.

A powerhouse? Can I ask, when have we blown the opposition away at the top?

You really are intent on trying to blame all this on suits, and on Billy's departure.

Look and analyse the tournament. What exactly were you expecting?

Barnes and Taylor both lost razor close fights that I thought they won.

Ward losing was just a combination of a very awkward opponent and warnings.

Irvine was beaten by a better man, period. Ditto with DOJ.

Katie. Now this is the one that is puzzling. I think she won, as do her coaches and many others. There are posters here posting stuff like 'she lacked sharpness,' 'she was off form' etc. They obviously haven't watched her that much. Katie has had many similar fights to today that went her way. She boxed extremely well against a quality opponent. The judges this time went against her by D tiniest of margins.

You are constantly trying to link all this with the bad guys in the IABA, and Billy's departure. It reeks of an agenda. And when you analyse it closely it doesn't add up.

The IABA are not perfect, and recent sh1t has really hammered that home. But to keep trying to blame a few losses on Billy's departure is not necessarily true.

Strazdas

walshb wrote: »

A powerhouse? Can I ask, when have we blown the opposition away at the top?

You really are intent on trying to blame all this on suits, and on Billy's departure.

Look and analyse the tournament. What exactly were you expecting?

Barnes and Taylor both lost razor close fights that I thought they won.

Ward losing was just a combination of a very awkward opponent and warnings.

Irvine was beaten by a better man, period. Ditto with DOJ.

Katie. Now this is the one that is puzzling. I think she won, as do her coaches and many others. There are posters here posting stuff like 'she lacked sharpness,' 'she was off form' etc. They obviously haven't watched her that much. Katie has had many similar fights to today that went her way. She boxed extremely well against a quality opponent. The judges this time went against her by D tiniest of margins.

You are constantly trying to link all this with the bad guys in the IABA, and Billy's departure. It reeks of an agenda. And when you analyse it closely it doesn't add up.

The IABA are not perfect, and recent sh1t has really hammered that home. But to keep trying to blame a few losses on Billy's departure is not necessarily true.

If you take any one of the defeats, you could say yes, that fight didn't go to plan and they were unlucky enough. As a collective though, something has clearly gone wrong : we went with our biggest and most decorated team to an Olympic Games and are already down to our last boxer and are still without a medal.

It's not even up to me to apportion blame or say who might be responsible. All we can say with confidence is that this team has seriously underperformed.

Frankie Lee

The HPU should be put under the control of the sports council. I think that is the set up for Team GB and it works ok for them. The IABA have messed up enough times now to be left in charge when it is tax payers money being spent.

Strazdas

Frankie Lee wrote: »

The HPU should be put under the control of the sports council. I think that is the set up for Team GB and it works ok for them. The IABA have messed up enough times now to be left in charge when it is tax payers money being spent.

That would make a lot of sense, especially when as you say money is being given to the HPU. It's not as if the money is given with absolutely no strings attached either.

Donald Trump

Frankie Lee wrote: »

The HPU should be put under the control of the sports council. I think that is the set up for Team GB and it works ok for them. The IABA have messed up enough times now to be left in charge when it is tax payers money being spent.

Would that be the same Team GB that won 2 Golds, 1 silver and 1 bronze in the mens boxing in 2012? What do they have left in the mens competition now? One in the semi-final and one at quarter final stage? Maybe they'll get the two golds and if their women win also they'd be up close to the top. I think they had the full mens team qualified this time around and I don't think they had that the last time either

Donald Trump

mansize wrote: »

The IABA never struck me as professional. Sack Gary Keegan and the president gets High Performance director job...

There is certainly something rotten in the state of Denmark

I thought Keegan was poached rather than sacked. But am open to correction on that!

Strazdas

Donald Trump wrote: »

Would that be the same Team GB that won 2 Golds, 1 silver and 1 bronze in the mens boxing in 2012? What do they have left in the mens competition now? One in the semi-final and one at quarter final stage? Maybe they'll get the two golds and if their women win also they'd be up close to the top. I think they had the full mens team qualified this time around and I don't think they had that the last time either

Boxing is not one of the premier sports in Britain for funding though (the likes of athletics, cycling, rowing, swimming and sailing are).

In Ireland, boxing and athletics are the two most funded Olympic sports by the Sports Council.

weareallmarks

Morning lads and ladies,

It has been a rough Olympics for Irish boxing. But we have to remember. There are 2 sides, the team / coaches and the management.

The top boxers have lost by split decision. Non have been smashed out of the competition. We have to remember that Barnes, Conlan and especially Taylor have more of a bullseye on them this year than anytime in history. every other country knows that if they beat any of our top boxers, they will medal. That is added pressure. For me, I think out improvements where at a slightly lower level than the opposition. This may be because of Zaur double jobbing.

Now for the management which is a horrific mess up. O'Reilly should not have been brought on the plane. If he does'nt train he doesnt go, that simple. If (if) they knew about the failed test before the plane takes off, he doesnt go. They never got ahead of the issue. That along with Hickey acting like he has everything to hide has had an awful affect on the team.

I don't think we should comment on the private lives of boxers on the team. It is non of our business..

Sorry for the rant .

walshb

And it now emerges that the IABA refuted that radio interview by Conlon. Wtf is going on. Who is in charge? Why are IABA coaches giving interviews that IABA are then refuting? There seems to be a complete free for all in this set up that is just bonkers.

weareallmarks

Some great analysis:

https://thedailyclothesline.wordpress.com/2016/08/16/armchair-experts-olympics-and-bad-management/

jimd2

walshb wrote: »

And it now emerges that the IABA refuted that radio interview by Conlon. Wtf is going on. Who is in charge? Why are IABA coaches giving interviews that IABA are then refuting? There seems to be a complete free for all in this set up that is just bonkers.

Yes, I agree with you. Complete freefall in management since Billy left. Mind you in fairness Katie's demise is probably a separate issue but, as someone said above, one issue you could understand but the range of issues that have got out of hand indicates that serious management issues went amiss.

it was always going to be more challenging in South America in comparison to London - all the more reason for the powers that be to ensure consistency in management as stated also by Mick Dowling.

Dodge

walshb wrote: »

And it now emerges that the IABA refuted that radio interview by Conlon. Wtf is going on. Who is in charge? Why are IABA coaches giving interviews that IABA are then refuting? There seems to be a complete free for all in this set up that is just bonkers.

Conlon was interviewed in a post-fight conference. The AIBA can't control everything all coaches say

As for performances, they're more in line with our results at World Championship level which probably relates to how qualification has changed to allow more of the bigger nations (including Ireland) qualify

Donnolly and Joyce performed better than expected. Irvine as expected. Barnes was probably under par but lost a close one. Ward won the fight only for points deductions. Conlon could lose to a fighter today that's already beaten him.

The boxers are a victim of their own success. Boxing is really, really competitive. Britain brought 10 men into the games and they've 2 left (one medalist and another at the QF stage)

Even Russia, the European powerhouse, will win a max of 4 medals. Let's just hope Conlon ensures they get 3 today

--

EDIT; all Irish sports administrators are pretty much amateurs, usually with vested interests too. That we won 7 medals in the last 2 games in boxing is a miracle, and not representative of how the IABA has worked

Strazdas

Dodge wrote: »

Conlon was interviewed in a post-fight conference. The AIBA can't control everything all coaches say

As for performances, they're more in line with our results at World Championship level which probably relates to how qualification has changed to allow more of the bigger nations (including Ireland) qualify

Donnolly and Joyce performed better than expected. Irvine as expected. Barnes was probably under par but lost a close one. Ward won the fight only for points deductions. Conlon could lose to a fighter today that's already beaten him.

The boxers are a victim of their own success. Boxing is really, really competitive. Britain brought 10 men into the games and they've 2 left (one medalist and another at the QF stage)

Even Russia, the European powerhouse, will win a max of 4 medals. Let's just hope Conlon ensures they get 3 today

--

EDIT; all Irish sports administrators are pretty much amateurs, usually with vested interests too. That we won 7 medals in the last 2 games in boxing is a miracle, and not representative of how the IABA has worked

Four Irish boxers out of seven departing the tournament without winning a single bout is a poor showing by anyone's standards. This wasn't a team of unknowns either, it was packed with World, European and Commonwealth gold medalists / medalists.

Dodge

Strazdas wrote: »

Four Irish boxers out of seven departing the tournament without winning a single bout is a poor showing by anyone's standards. This wasn't a team of unknowns either, it was packed with World, European and Commonwealth gold medalists / medalists.

Commonwealth games are useless. The only Irish boxers to have medals from the Worlds are Conlon and Ward. Barnes is the only other European medalist.

Irvine is very young and may improve. Donnolly and Joyce are experienced lads but they have never won any medals in European Championships or World Championships (and both performed well in Rio).

You can say Barnes and Ward under performed of course, but Ward was ahead on the scorecard without the points deductions. That's unfortunate rather than a sign of bad planning etc

Andalucia

Andalucia wrote: »

have the board of the IABA resigned yet?

this is shocking managment or mis-managment of the situation

joke shop, and then the Irish analysts & coaches trying to make excuses - he/she was robbed - the team was way off the pace an poorly prepared which has been borne out by results

as for O'Reilly and the cloak and dagger now about whether he was or wasn't part of the unit - keep the story straight and tell us what he was popping

Conlon was robbed but the rest can have little complaints. Conlon was far better then that Russian today.

I agree with you re O'Reilly. Its time for transparency.

Realist Man

Deleted User wrote: »

Its time for transparency.

I agree, but how many times have we been down this road.

The suits and organisations love to pass the buck and blame someone else, once the dust settles it will be business as usual

Realist Man

Realist Man wrote: »

I agree, but how many times have we been down this road.

The suits and organisations love to pass the buck and blame someone else, once the dust settles it will be business as usual

Its amazing though that we don't actually know what substance he failed for thus far. I mean like is it nandrolone or something?

Realist Man

Deleted User wrote: »

Its amazing though that we don't actually know what substance he failed for thus far. I mean like is it nandrolone or something?

And also:
Where was he for the 8 weeks before the games?
Why is our coach ignoring the IABA instruction and lambasting O Reilly during the tournament? Not the time or the place (8 weeks comment in same interview I believe)
Why did our fighters not go to Brazil sooner to acclimatise to different conditions?
Social Media, some antics in that regard, are rules being adhered to and should they be in place if they arent?

I expect many of these questions will remain unanswered. Thats even before we go into where Irish Boxing goes from here etc.