Difference between 'smoked' and 'fresh' cod in italian chip shop

drewmichael

Can someone tell me what the difference between a fresh cod and a smoked cod is in italian chippers?

Both appear to be beer battered so wondering what difference is. How they are cooked i assume?

gumbo1

drewmichael wrote: »

Can someone tell me what the difference between a fresh cod and a smoked cod is in italian chippers?

Both appear to be beer battered so wondering what difference is. How they are cooked i assume?

A smoked cod is put into a smoker that adds flavour and colour to it before its battered and fried. A fresh cod is just battered and fried. If you put them side by side and open the batter you'll see the smoked cod is red/orange colour whereas the fresh is white.

Gmaximum

Smoked cod has been smoked in advance for a different flavors when cooked in the chipper

It won't be naturally smoked though and most likely has an artificial dye added
If you want to try really good smoked fish go to a fishmonger if you're up for cooking yourself

alastair

And neither of them are likely to be actual cod.
Still tasty nonetheless.
Smoked cod can be a bit salty tasting too.

niallam

Their "fresh" cod is Frozen at Sea cod, usually Norwegian, comes in a 3 x 6.81kg case. The same cod that Aldi and Lidl sell as fresh....

Smoked cod doesn't exist in any chipper in Ireland, as a product it's very rare in the fish industry, smoked coley is what they all use. All comes from Scotland and packed in 1 stone box. The dye is annatto, gives it the orangey colour.

rubadub

alastair wrote: »

And neither of them are likely to be actual cod.
.

The fresh cod is likely to be cod, the smoked is not. There were several threads about this a few years back, DNA testing was done on samples.

People reckoned it was since when smoked it would be harder to distinguish and so they think its easier to get away with it.

Doesn't bother me at all, I know a guy who when he sees me eating fish without fail starts warning me that my fresh cod is not real cod, you'd swear I was being conned and eating poisonous gone off roadkill meat the way he goes on. I want a nice battered white fish and that is what I get. To me it would be like a burger made from a different cut of beef than claimed.

He will also say "but you are paying for cod", some I think are not cod due to the huge size of them, I would rather see more chippers with these cheaper & larger options.

Bateman

Smoked coley is actually very tasty (I often use it for Locatelli’s lentil recipe), and should be used more…

mothoin

Pollock is a common substitute for cod

KungPao

niallam wrote: »

Their "fresh" cod is Frozen at Sea cod, usually Norwegian, comes in a 3 x 6.81kg case. The same cod that Aldi and Lidl sell as fresh....

Smoked cod doesn't exist in any chipper in Ireland, as a product it's very rare in the fish industry, smoked coley is what they all use. All comes from Scotland and packed in 1 stone box. The dye is annatto, gives it the orangey colour.

Do they buy in all their stuff pre-made, do you know? Like battered sausages, chips etc. Is it all just par cooked stuff from some massive supplier, and they make nothing themselves really?

niallam

mothoin wrote: »

Pollock is a common substitute for cod

White pollock is a better fish I think than cod, I'd pick it over cod myself. Sometimes called Blossom.


Black pollock is a much darker flesh. Still a good fish but colour makes it less appealing, that's why they smoke it and add a dye.
Sometimes called coley or saithe.

mothoin

KungPao wrote: »

Do they buy in all their stuff pre-made, do you know? Like battered sausages, chips etc. Is it all just par cooked stuff from some massive supplier, and they make nothing themselves really?

I think on a whole they batter and cook everything themselves, the proper italian chippers do anyway

Smoked cod in beer batter is Italian cooking!!!????

I'd advise you to go somewhere else..

the beer revolu

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Smoked cod in beer batter is Italian cooking!!!????

I'd advise you to go somewhere else..

Are you seriously not aware of the long standing tradition of Italian fish and chip shops in Dublin?

Pro Hoc Vice

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Smoked cod in beer batter is Italian cooking!!!????

I'd advise you to go somewhere else..

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/how-fish-and-chips-enriched-a-nation-1.765095

It began sometime in the 1880s, when an Italian, Giuseppe Cervi, stepped off an American-bound boat that had stopped in Cobh and kept walking until he reached Dublin. There, he worked as a labourer until he earned enough money to buy a coal-fired cooker and a hand-cart, from which he sold chips outside pubs.
Soon after, he found a permanent spot on Great Brunswick Street (now Pearse Street), where his wife Palma would ask customers ‘Uno di questo, uno di quello?’, meaning ‘one of this and one of the other?’ In doing so, Palma helped to coin a Dublin phrase, ‘one and one’, which is still a common way of asking for fish and chips. The shop, meanwhile, had launched an industry.

mothoin

Deleted User wrote: »

Smoked cod in beer batter is Italian cooking!!!????

I'd advise you to go somewhere else..

Ya may come out of that cave!

www.itica.ie

rubadub

niallam wrote: »

Smoked cod doesn't exist in any chipper in Ireland,

The DNA results would say otherwise.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-04/esoa-dbr042210.php

As I said earlier most smoked cod is not cod, and its more likely the fresh cod is cod.

KungPao wrote: »

Do they buy in all their stuff pre-made, do you know? Like battered sausages, chips etc.

I think most make it themselves, I see them at it in many chippers usually at off peak times. It would be feasible that some might buy it in, or chains of chippers like Romayos could well do some items at a central place.

here is a guy making it in liberos deansgrange
https://www.facebook.com/Liberos-Takeaway-Deansgrange-181545721875885/photos


documentary on chippers here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-_-HecJ89A

Foggy Jew

Hungry now.

niallam

rubadub wrote: »

The DNA results would say otherwise.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-04/esoa-dbr042210.php

So in 2010 26/28 were labelling incorrectly. 2 smoked cod out of 28 were actually smoked cod.
A lot changes in 6 years...
Nobody is producing smoked cod in the UK. And of all places a chipper isn't going to buy enough volume to get a pallet produced for themselves and then pay about 30% more than smoked coley.
You seem to know a lot about the chipper industry but not the fish industry

Gazzmonkey

drewmichael wrote: »

Can someone tell me what the difference between a fresh cod and a smoked cod is in italian chippers?

Both appear to be beer battered so wondering what difference is. How they are cooked i assume?

The smoked cod would be stained orange as it's smoked and tastes very nice in my opinion.

The fresh cod is simply fresh white cod and is also very nice and a good choice if you don't like smoked fish.

Gazzmonkey

niallam wrote: »

Their "fresh" cod is Frozen at Sea cod, usually Norwegian, comes in a 3 x 6.81kg case. The same cod that Aldi and Lidl sell as fresh....

Smoked cod doesn't exist in any chipper in Ireland, as a product it's very rare in the fish industry, smoked coley is what they all use. All comes from Scotland and packed in 1 stone box. The dye is annatto, gives it the orangey colour.

The Italian chipper in Wicklow I sometimes go to was able to prove he sourced all his fish from Irish fisheries only... Donegal to be exact.

He smokes & batters his own cod all pulled from the north Atlantic... tasty stuff

rubadub

niallam wrote: »

You seem to know a lot about the chipper industry

Not really, you were the one speaking with seemingly 100% certainty about chippers. Many people go on about chippers (and butchers) as though they are some chain of shops who openly declare everything they do.

It would take another DNA study to convince me there are none, and 28 shops was not a lot. You say there is none made in the UK and so use this as proof.

I see several types of smoked cod in uk supermarkets.
http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/Shopping/FindProducts.aspx?LandingScript=Forms::{%22ID%22:%22Register%22}&Query=smoked%20cod
and youngs do them
https://youngsseafood.co.uk/product-ranges/chilled-smoked-cod-fillets/

so I would certainly not be shocked if some chipper here had smoked cod. In recent years I have seen them relabel some things in chippers, like "cod portion" might now be "fish portion" or "white fish portion".

KungPao

rubadub wrote: »

Not really, you were the one speaking with seemingly 100% certainty about chippers. Many people go on about chippers (and butchers) as though they are some chain of shops who openly declare everything they do.

It would take another DNA study to convince me there are none, and 28 shops was not a lot. You say there is none made in the UK and so use this as proof.

I see several types of smoked cod in uk supermarkets.
http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/Shopping/FindProducts.aspx?LandingScript=Forms::{%22ID%22:%22Register%22}&Query=smoked%20cod
and youngs do them
https://youngsseafood.co.uk/product-ranges/chilled-smoked-cod-fillets/

so I would certainly not be shocked if some chipper here had smoked cod. In recent years I have seen them relabel some things in chippers, like "cod portion" might now be "fish portion" or "white fish portion".

Made the mistake of getting this once from my local chipper. Great food usually but this was just a perfect rectangle of battered tasteless mushed up fish bits - a large fish finger basically. Didn't finish it. Always get a fillet!

& thanks for the chipper documentary link, good stuff.

niallam

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

The Italian chipper in Wicklow I sometimes go to was able to prove he sourced all his fish from Irish fisheries only... Donegal to be exact.

The company he buys off are probably in Donegal. Northern Cape I think they're called that do a lot of chippers. They use signal compartment freezer vans
He's not buying fresh fish and getting it delivered every day...

It's like aldi and lidl, selling Norwegian cod and South African hake but how many people actually know this? All frozen and thawed and sold as fresh with a big "Produced in Ireland" flag and logo....

The Hill Billy

KungPao wrote: »

Made the mistake of getting this once from my local chipper. Great food usually but this was just a perfect rectangle of battered tasteless mushed up fish bits - a large fish finger basically. Didn't finish it. Always get a fillet!

& thanks for the chipper documentary link, good stuff.

No need to always get a fillet if you use a good chipper. My local - The Central Café - in Skerries does an excellent quality 'Fish Box'. A good chipper will do good fish no matter how they package it up for you.

huskerdu

The Hill Billy wrote: »

No need to always get a fillet if you use a good chipper. My local - The Central Café - in Skerries does an excellent quality 'Fish Box'. A good chipper will do good fish no matter how they package it up for you.

Thats grand if you know the place, but in a lot of chippers the term "cod portion" means a processed square of mashed up mixed fish. Best avoided, especially if cod fillet is also on the menu ( I know, I know, its probably coley or pollock, but at least its going to be a fillet)

rubadub

The Hill Billy wrote: »

No need to always get a fillet if you use a good chipper. My local - The Central Café - in Skerries does an excellent quality 'Fish Box'. A good chipper will do good fish no matter how they package it up for you.

Their menu on just eat also has the cod portion, which is likely to be the large fish finger. I know 2 people who prefer cod portions over fillets.

Most chippers will not have anything other than smoked/fresh/portion of cod. If a place does have a fish box, or fish supper I would not expect it to be the processed cod portion type, but small off cuts from fillets, or just really small fillets.

Its a shame more do not sell smaller size fillets for cheaper.

Burdocks do "fish bites", they also have smoked cod on the menu, I wonder if they are legit as they have quite a reputation to risk. Beshoffs have no smoked cod on the menu, just smoked haddock. Harry Ramsden here also only have smoked haddock.

Pallas foods also have smoked cod, http://www.pallasfoods.com/product/smoked-cod-case-6-35kg/ I also doubt they would risk their reputation.

I noticed a letter up in my local chipper the other night from a supplier saying both the cod fillet and smoked cod were guaranteed cod. This does not prove to me that they are using fish from that supplier of course. I can't remember the supplier name, Mc something, or Andrew possibly in the name.

Gazzmonkey

niallam wrote: »

The company he buys off are probably in Donegal. Northern Cape I think they're called that do a lot of chippers. They use signal compartment freezer vans
He's not buying fresh fish and getting it delivered every day...

It's like aldi and lidl, selling Norwegian cod and South African hake but how many people actually know this? All frozen and thawed and sold as fresh with a big "Produced in Ireland" flag and logo....

Afraid not... he uses a fishmonger that delivers every morning so no need for freezers

I love how you cant accept that someone in Ireland actually had real smoked cod lol

niallam

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

Afraid not... he uses a fishmonger that delivers every morning so no need for freezers

I love how you cant accept that someone in Ireland actually had real smoked cod lol

When you're 30 years in an industry you get to understand how it works, quite a bit more than those who aren't in the same industry but somehow seem to know more than you......

I'd love to know who's delivering fresh smoked cod daily to 1 customer, wonder what their EU plant number for their high care smoking operation is..... The fact that to kill all pathogens the cod has to be frozen once in its lifetime there's someone out there producing fresh batches daily amazes me..... Freshly thawed.....

And I can accept it, he just might be one of the 2 in the country using smoked cod, possibly from an Irish artisan smoker yet charging Scottish smoked coley prices....

vicwatson

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

The Italian chipper in Wicklow I sometimes go to was able to prove he sourced all his fish from Irish fisheries only... Donegal to be exact.

He smokes & batters his own cod all pulled from the north Atlantic... tasty stuff

Is it called "the Italian chipper"?

Dantonio

There's 3 main methods treating fish before it reaches a chipper...

1) FAS 'Frozen at Sea'.
2) Wet ("Fresh")
3) Flash Frozen

The best is FAS, this is actually the freshest and safest by far.
See: "Fishing and processing on a freezing trawler" on YouTube.... I can't post URLs!

Wet, while good will generally have clocked many hours/days by the time it's served. And flash frozen is done in port so even though frozen, it's not frozen when really really fresh.

Chippers generally prepare fresh and smoked Cod the same way. They are thawed, cut into single serving size fillets, battered (usually not a beer batter), then cooled and refrigerated and finally cooked again to order. This allows for quicker service, though in the UK fish is generally cooked once to order.

I'm a little uneasy about the somewhat misleading use of 'Fresh', but the FAS Cod is best and freshest IMO.

In the North of Ireland, they don't do Smoked Cod, as smoking is generally associated with cheaper less tasty pieces of fish and people don't buy it. Or so I'm told.

Elliott S

Gmaximum wrote: »

It won't be naturally smoked though and most likely has an artificial dye added
If you want to try really good smoked fish go to a fishmonger if you're up for cooking yourself

I've tried the naturally-smoked stuff and didn't like it. It was far too salty and I usually like my salty food. I actually prefer artificially-smoked fish.

Billy86

niallam wrote: »

Their "fresh" cod is Frozen at Sea cod, usually Norwegian, comes in a 3 x 6.81kg case. The same cod that Aldi and Lidl sell as fresh....

Smoked cod doesn't exist in any chipper in Ireland, as a product it's very rare in the fish industry, smoked coley is what they all use. All comes from Scotland and packed in 1 stone box. The dye is annatto, gives it the orangey colour.

Really is a pet hate of mine, since I actually quite like the smoked cod from most chippers (and my local calls it 'smoked fillet of fish' which is refreshing). I just wish they'd stop calling it cod when it isn't, though I wish the average consumer wouldn't be so picky because if the chippers did do that... they'd lose a good deal of business. Even from people who've been buying that exact product from them regularly for years.

It's also frustrasting compared to the 'chipper' equivalents they have in parts of Australia, where it very much is fresh fish that they serve and give you a few different options. Plus they bread rather than batter it, which I typically prefer but that's another matter. I think some chippers would also do well to add calamari as a side offer - cheap, quick and easy on their end while also a product they could slap a small mark up on for 'fanciness'.

Smokers and Jokers?

Scampi and chips from Beshoff Bros. Can't beat it with a stick.

Carawaystick

Elliott S wrote: »

I've tried the naturally-smoked stuff and didn't like it. It was far too salty and I usually like my salty food. I actually prefer artificially-smoked fish.

It's hardly the natural smoke that makes it salty though... In the same way ham or bacon can be more or less salty independent of it being smoked or not.