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Brendan Dassey's conviction overturned

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13

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    #62
    Your Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,277 ✭✭✭Your Face


    I hear Season 2 is going to be a hilarious and light-hearted sitcom.


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    #63
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,657 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    GT_TDI_150 wrote: »
    As some one who grew up on a pig farm in the 80s where we slaugthered the odd one( pig that is! before ye conspiracy theorists ( on both sides of this imagionary fence) go mental) for our own consumption in the yard of the farm, i just want to point out that the next day Other than 2 half pigs hanging in the garage you wouldnt have known a pig was ever killed there.

    ;)

    And you ran a blacklight over the entire room to check for anything left and then also cleaned away all traces of materials used to clean the mess?


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    #64
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,657 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Feck that, he should sue for millions! Millions and millions. They ruined his life, humiliated him and abused the justice system to convict an innocent bystander because they didn't like his uncle.

    He also missed a decade of wrestlemania


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    #65
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    VinLieger wrote: »
    He also missed a decade of wrestlemania
    That would help prevent the IQ rot that WWE causes and has probably made him smarter.


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    #66
    mackeire
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭mackeire


    Winterlong wrote: »
    If the two of them do get released they really need to move to another county or state. The local law will be all over them for anything like breaking a red light.

    Or Jaywalking


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    #67
    Beefy78
    Registered Users Posts: 8,163 ✭✭✭Beefy78


    Delighted for Brendan. But Avery is still guilty as sin.


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    #68
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Beefy78 wrote: »
    Delighted for Brendan. But Avery is still guilty as sin.

    Possibly ........... but that has never been proven in a Court of Law beyond any reasonable doubt.


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    #69
    Beefy78
    Registered Users Posts: 8,163 ✭✭✭Beefy78


    Well it kinda was...


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    #70
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Beefy78 wrote: »
    Well it kinda was...

    You need to research this a case a bit more so!! :D


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    #71
    Beefy78
    Registered Users Posts: 8,163 ✭✭✭Beefy78


    I've researched it loads. But either way it is a statement of fact that he was proven guilty in a Court of Law beyond any reasonable doubt. That is literally what happened.

    None of us were there, none of us sat through the many weeks of evidence that was given so all that any of us can do is guess as to whether or not we think that that verdict was right. My thoughts are that Avery killing that poor woman is the least implausible theory and therefore the most likely explanation.


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    #72
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Beefy78 wrote: »
    I've researched it loads. But either way it is a statement of fact that he was proven guilty in a Court of Law beyond any reasonable doubt. That is literally what happened.

    None of us were there, none of us sat through the many weeks of evidence that was given so all that any of us can do is guess as to whether or not we think that that verdict was right. My thoughts are that Avery killing that poor woman is the least implausible theory and therefore the most likely explanation.

    Wasn't Brendan Dassey also convicted of the murder and thus found "guilty as sin" in a Court of Law beyond any reasonable doubt?

    There's a reason this case has attracted so much attention .......... it's the Doubt part, in case you're wondering.


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    #73
    givyjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭givyjoe


    Beefy78 wrote: »
    I've researched it loads. But either way it is a statement of fact that he was proven guilty in a Court of Law beyond any reasonable doubt. That is literally what happened.

    None of us were there, none of us sat through the many weeks of evidence that was given so all that any of us can do is guess as to whether or not we think that that verdict was right. My thoughts are that Avery killing that poor woman is the least implausible theory and therefore the most likely explanation.

    That isn't actually what happened. The jury found him guilty despite there being considerable reasonable doubt and should never have been convicted, hence his release. The same can be said of Avery. While his own lawyer wasn't entirely sure that he didn't do it, he was absolutely sure that there was sufficient reasonable doubt for him not be found guilty.

    The burden of proof was not 'on the balance of probabilities' (as for civil cases) but beyond reasonable doubt as you mention.

    The prosecutors didn't prove anything.


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    #74
    Shergar6
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭Shergar6


    After i watched MAM i immediately thought he was innocent, or almost certainly innocent. But then all the stories about him that were not in the documentary came out and after a while i had some distance and less attachment to him not being guilty and now i'm at the point where there isn't a doubt in my mind that he's GUILTY. I mean, come on. He requested her specifically to come photograph his cars. Then his ex saying he was acting weird the day of the murder. I hope to God he isn't released.

    As for Brendan ... it's a strange one. I actually saved his entire police interview to watch some time. I'd like to know what IQ level he is - because to come out with all that stuff about being forced into raping and killing Teresa and not be guilty ...

    Why did he lose so much weight just after it happened? Did he see something? Was he involved in some way?

    I just feel sorry for Teresa Halbach's family. They are the real victims in all of this.


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    #75
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Shergar6 wrote: »
    After i watched MAM i immediately thought he was innocent, or almost certainly innocent. But then all the stories about him that were not in the documentary came out and after a while i had some distance and less attachment to him not being guilty and now i'm at the point where there isn't a doubt in my mind that he's innocent. I mean, come on. He requested her specifically to come photograph his cars. Then his ex saying he was acting weird the day of the murder. I hope to God he isn't released.
    Him requesting her specifically could be down to not liking whoever else they might send. Maybe she put's more effort in. It's hard to know.
    As for Brendan ... it's a strange one. I actually saved his entire police interview to watch some time. I'd like to know what IQ level he is - because to come out with all that stuff about being forced into raping and killing Teresa and not be guilty ...
    It's a well known phenomenon of trusting people in authority. The documentary shows his own legal team getting him to draw out their own fantasy of the details they came up with and then using those drawings against him in court. They literally told him to draw what they thought happened, he didn't do it of his own accord. His legal team worked against him and it was despicable.
    Why did he lose so much weight just after it happened? Did he see something? Was he involved in some way?
    Depression would explain that, he was losing and gaining weight throughout the whole thing.


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    #76
    PowerToWait
    Registered Users Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭PowerToWait


    Shergar6 wrote: »
    But then all the stories about him that were not in the documentary came. Then his ex saying he was acting weird the day of the murder.

    In the absence of any forensic evidence whatsoever, no eye witnesses and no motive, investigators who have been proven to have lied and coerced, you think rumours and 'acting weird' is enough? Good man.


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    #77
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    "But your honour he was acting weird on the day"
    "Say no more kind sir, lock the man up and throw away the key"


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    #78
    The Raptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭The Raptor


    The best news i read all day. Brendan's release will help Steven now.


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    #79
    Chain Smoker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭Chain Smoker


    The Raptor wrote: »
    The best news i read all day. Brendan's release will help Steven now.

    or it will completely remove the part of the case that was attracting reams and reams of sympathy and outrage and Steven, who is an infinitely less sympathetic character in terms of how he presents himself, will be somewhat forgotten about.


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    #80
    Shergar6
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭Shergar6


    PowerToWait wrote: »
    In the absence of any forensic evidence whatsoever, no eye witnesses and no motive, investigators who have been proven to have lied and coerced, you think rumours and 'acting weird' is enough? Good man.

    Out of curiosity - who do you think murdered her?


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    #81
    Beefy78
    Registered Users Posts: 8,163 ✭✭✭Beefy78


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Wasn't Brendan Dassey also convicted of the murder and thus found "guilty as sin" in a Court of Law beyond any reasonable doubt?

    There's a reason this case has attracted so much attention .......... it's the Doubt part, in case you're wondering.

    The reason is because Netflix made a heavily edited TV show out of it. The decision of a jury doesn't mean either way that someone did or didn't do a crime. It's a simple decision made by human beings who can be wrong.

    The point was that you said that Avery had never been found guilty in court without reasonable doubt. But that was exactly what happened.

    I never said Dassey was guilty as sin. I don't think he was and am delighted that he's out. Avery killed that woman though, IMO. And I hope he rots in jail. If he gets out because the Police tampered with evidence (which I think they did in order to secure the conviction) then that's a killer back out on the streets.


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    #82
    Beefy78
    Registered Users Posts: 8,163 ✭✭✭Beefy78


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Him requesting her specifically could be down to not liking whoever else they might send. Maybe she put's more effort in. It's hard to know.

    It isn't that hard to know. He was constantly pestering the poor woman with unwanted phone calls and had previously answered the door to one of their appointments dressed just in his dressing gown.


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    #83
    Beefy78
    Registered Users Posts: 8,163 ✭✭✭Beefy78


    Shergar6 wrote: »
    I just feel sorry for Teresa Halbach's family. They are the real victims in all of this.

    Couldn't agree more. Those poor people had to relive that horror all these years later and worst of all have millions of amateur Detectives putting suspicion on them.


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    #84
    nc6000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,225 ✭✭✭nc6000


    I don't see what the point of framing Dassey or coercing him into confessing was if this wasn't then used in Avery's trial.

    I can see how it could affect public opinion alright but why not use his testimony against Avery?


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    #85
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Beefy78 wrote: »
    It isn't that hard to know. He was constantly pestering the poor woman with unwanted phone calls and had previously answered the door to one of their appointments dressed just in his dressing gown.

    All of that was debunked. If she really felt creeped out by him, would she have responded to his call and then went to his property alone? More to the point, if he was going to murder her, would he be so stupid to ring her place of work and ask them to send her on over?


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    #86
    Potential Underachiever
    Registered Users Posts: 4,989 ✭✭✭Potential Underachiever


    anna080 wrote: »
    "But your honour he was acting weird on the day"
    "Say no more kind sir, lock the man up and throw away the key"

    IIRC in the series the girlfriend said she rang Avery around the time that all the raping and what not was allegedly going on and said he was acting perfectly normal?She changed her tune a fair bit


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    #87
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Potential Underachiever wrote: »
    IIRC in the series the girlfriend said she rang Avery around the time that all the raping and what not was allegedly going on and said he was acting perfectly normal?She changed her tune a fair bit

    Yes I remember that and apparently they were on the phone for most of the time that Theresa was on the property


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    #88
    Potential Underachiever
    Registered Users Posts: 4,989 ✭✭✭Potential Underachiever


    anna080 wrote: »
    Yes I remember that and apparently they were on the phone for most of the time that Theresa was on the property


    There's more holes in the story than swiss cheese tbh, so people that are claiming that he's 100% guilty are having a larf imo, I'm undecided myself, I thought he was definitely innocent, then when I read into more after the doc I was thinking probably guilty but I'm leaning back towards innocent now that Zellner has got involved. But there was definitely enough doubt that he should not have been convicted originally imo.


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    #89
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Beefy78 wrote: »
    The point was that you said that Avery had never been found guilty in court without reasonable doubt. But that was exactly what happened.

    Avery was wrongly convicted (innocent/guilty or not!) as there was insufficient/tainted evidence and more than reasonable doubt of his guilt .......... the fact that the Jury did not do their duty and found him guilty anyway does not change that fact.
    I'll say it again, he was not found guilty in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt.
    Beefy78 wrote: »
    I never said Dassey was guilty as sin. I don't think he was and am delighted that he's out. Avery killed that woman though, IMO. And I hope he rots in jail. If he gets out because the Police tampered with evidence (which I think they did in order to secure the conviction) then that's a killer back out on the streets.

    Both Avery and Dassey were convicted in a court of law of the same crime with the same "evidence" by the same prosecutor ......... you have decided that one was actually guilty whilst the other was completely innocent .......... that's the very definition of cherry-picking logic. :rolleyes:

    If you at least thought they were both innocent/guilty then you would be demonstrating some form of logical consistency with your argument.


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    #90
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,242 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Whether Steven did it or not, what is blatantly obvious, is that he didn't murder her at the time and in the place and in the way that the prosecution claimed he did. The evidence they provided was laughable.

    The car was clearly planted on the Avery property, the keys were clearly planted in Stevens home, and the body remains were clearly planted in Stevens garden.

    All the evidence points to someone trying to frame him for the murder


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    #91
    mackeire
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭mackeire


    Just reading through this thread and realising that boards.ie has so many detectives, law experts and crime experts!

    The documentary was basically told in a manner to make Avary and Dassey look innocent. It was biased beyond belief!!
    If there was another documentary called 'catching a murderer' and was told from the police and prosecutors perspective, it would tell a completely different story!

    Don't believe everything that you see/read!!


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