I'm stuck

jethrothe2nd

I've got my weight down from 93.8kg to 81.7kg, and lost a good bit of body fat. I am 42, 5'10. According to what I have read, my ideal weight to height ratio means I should be somewhere around the 75kg mark. I'm more concerned with being healthy than being fixated on a number, but I could still do with losing a couple of inches from around the waist. Can anyone give me some advice on how I can move things on?

Food-wise, this is my typical week:

Breakfast: oats with milk, banana, grapes, yoghurt and a handful of nuts. Cup of tea with no milk
Lunch: Bowl of soup with croutons, Salad (lettuce, cucumber, tomatoes, peppers, cheese, no dressing)
Snack: apple, raw carrot
Dinner: different every day, but usually includes things like fish and veg, chicken and veg, spag bol, stir fry etc. Might have a glass of wine during the week, definitely have one at the weekend. Usually no more than a big glass.

Generally no fried or processed food, but maybe a takeaway a couple of times a month max. Weekends usually involve lunch out somewhere followed by coffee and something nice on one or both days.

Exercise looks something like this, although I mix it up a bit.

5k run 2 times a week
7.5k once a week
25/30k cycle 3 times a week
Sporadically I do pushups and sit ups, but not on a regular basis
Back exercises every day to build up my core as I have had back problems in the past and this keeps it at bay.
I also do a few sportives which are generally around 100km and am doing a few duathlons as well.

The obvious thing for me to do is to cut out the takeaways etc, but to be honest I am reluctant to do that, having already significantly modified my diet. I also know that my portion size at dinner time needs to be reduced, and I am working on that.

Any other hints/tips?

Dtp1979

The only thing you can do is calculate your TDEE ( total daily energy expenditure )
When you have this figure, subtract 500 from it. This is the amount of calories you will need to eat to lose weight.
Use my fitness pal app to help you keep track. Input what your already eating to see what kind of numbers you're getting

Hammer89

I'm no expert but it sounds like the problem is that your body has adapted to a predictable caloric intake and is consequently holding to fat a lot more doggedly.

Your body has wised up and said, 'Hang on a second, where's all the fat gone? This maniac is trying to get rid of it for some reason and we can't be having that' so it retains it better.

The trick, I believe, is to manipulate your body again; fool it into thinking you don't want to its fat any longer and you'll lower your body's guard once more. How? By eating more for just one week. Give yourself a week off the diet. No need to go to town and start living off takeaways, but eat enough to fool your body into believing everything's back to normal when it isn't - it's a ploy.

Do this every four weeks. Four weeks of healthy eating and one week with your feet up as far as nutrition goes. As I said, I'm not an expert, but I have lost weight in the past and the fact of the matter is your body will reach an equilibrium without switching things up for a week.

Good luck.

vard

Hammer89 wrote: »

I'm no expert but it sounds like the problem is that your body has adapted to a predictable caloric intake and is consequently holding to fat a lot more doggedly.

Your body has wised up and said, 'Hang on a second, where's all the fat gone? This maniac is trying to get rid of it for some reason and we can't be having that' so it retains it better.

The trick, I believe, is to manipulate your body again; fool it into thinking you don't want to its fat any longer and you'll lower your body's guard once more. How? By eating more for just one week. Give yourself a week off the diet. No need to go to town and start living off takeaways, but eat enough to fool your body into believing everything's back to normal when it isn't - it's a ploy.

Do this every four weeks. Four weeks of healthy eating and one week with your feet up as far as nutrition goes. As I said, I'm not an expert, but I have lost weight in the past and the fact of the matter is your body will reach an equilibrium without switching things up for a week.

Good luck.

Please please please, I know you mean well, but don't give such advice if you don't know what you are talking about. By your own admission you are not an expert. Your post is a regurgitation of half baked myths and semi science. The body does not choose to retain fat in such a way and you aren't going to trick it. You can trick your mind. Not your body.

I don't mean to be rude, and I hope I don't come across that way.

Your diet seems balanced and healthy, not too restrictive and the determining factor in losing weight will continue to be your calorie intake. There is no harm in eating more from time to time. Maybe higher carb occasionally to replenish glycogen in advance of training / running. Overall you will still want to be in an average deficit for the week.

Dtp1979

Hammer89 wrote: »

I'm no expert but it sounds like the problem is that your body has adapted to a predictable caloric intake and is consequently holding to fat a lot more doggedly.

Your body has wised up and said, 'Hang on a second, where's all the fat gone? This maniac is trying to get rid of it for some reason and we can't be having that' so it retains it better.

The trick, I believe, is to manipulate your body again; fool it into thinking you don't want to its fat any longer and you'll lower your body's guard once more. How? By eating more for just one week. Give yourself a week off the diet. No need to go to town and start living off takeaways, but eat enough to fool your body into believing everything's back to normal when it isn't - it's a ploy.

Do this every four weeks. Four weeks of healthy eating and one week with your feet up as far as nutrition goes. As I said, I'm not an expert, but I have lost weight in the past and the fact of the matter is your body will reach an equilibrium without switching things up for a week.

Good luck.

Or you could just stay in a caloric deficit and lose weight either

Nervous Wreck

jethrothe2nd wrote: »

Generally no fried or processed food, but maybe a takeaway a couple of times a month max. Weekends usually involve lunch out somewhere followed by coffee and something nice on one or both days.



The obvious thing for me to do is to cut out the takeaways etc, but to be honest I am reluctant to do that, having already significantly modified my diet. I also know that my portion size at dinner time needs to be reduced, and I am working on that.

Any other hints/tips?

This is what's causing you to stall and you already know that. You can't get around these things. Fewer takeaways = more weight loss. Fewer meals out and "something nice" = more weight loss. If you'd prefer not to cut out/down on takeaways that's absolutely fine. But it will hinder your weight loss; that's just the reality of it.

As for portion sizes, don't "work on it" just do it.

ford2600

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Or you could just stay in a caloric deficit and lose weight either

Can you accurately put numbers on his BMR,TREE and NEAT?

Can you say how much they have changed since OP started dieting? How accurate can you be?

The science behind how the human body regulates body fat is pretty well established; through the action of leptin and the hypothalamus primarily and how they interact with thyroid function and appetite (with ghrelin).

If the OP started at 30% bf and is now 20% you can bet your bottom dollar his body has noticed through it's feedback control loop and will do something to defend itself.

Blindly applying calories in/out when you don't know all the variables isn't a solution that sustainable.

Doing your best to correct dysfunction in body fat regulation might be a better way to look at it.

With that in mind OP it sounds to be like you could still clean up your diet and see how you go.

If you still stall maybe maintain on clean foods for a while before trying to cut again.

BTW learn how to move properly and THEN learn to lift some heavy stuff. Keep some of the cardio

Hammer89

vard wrote: »

Please please please, I know you mean well, but don't give such advice if you don't know what you are talking about. By your own admission you are not an expert. Your post is a regurgitation of half baked myths and semi science. The body does not choose to retain fat in such a way and you aren't going to trick it. You can trick your mind. Not your body.

I'm not an expert on weight loss, which I stipulated twice, but I am an expert on how I lost weight - and I did lose quite a lot of it to be fair.

And not once during that whole period did I find myself in a situation similar to the OP in which I stopped losing weight. I think the reason for this is probably because every month I reset my eating patterns in an effort to prevent my body from reaching the behavioural equilibrium that the OP is struggling with.

I'm no genius. I was just lucky enough to have someone tell me to switch up my behaviour every four weeks. Maybe somebody didn't tell the OP so I was just trying to pass on some wisdom to help him get back on track.

I apologise if I was trying to sound like a professor or something but I stand by the essence of my post, which was 'eat differently for a week and then resume the diet which previously worked for you'.

Alf Veedersane

jethrothe2nd wrote: »

I've got my weight down from 93.8kg to 81.7kg, and lost a good bit of body fat. I am 42, 5'10. According to what I have read, my ideal weight to height ratio means I should be somewhere around the 75kg mark. I'm more concerned with being healthy than being fixated on a number, but I could still do with losing a couple of inches from around the waist. Can anyone give me some advice on how I can move things on?

Food-wise, this is my typical week:

Breakfast: oats with milk, banana, grapes, yoghurt and a handful of nuts. Cup of tea with no milk
Lunch: Bowl of soup with croutons, Salad (lettuce, cucumber, tomatoes, peppers, cheese, no dressing)
Snack: apple, raw carrot
Dinner: different every day, but usually includes things like fish and veg, chicken and veg, spag bol, stir fry etc. Might have a glass of wine during the week, definitely have one at the weekend. Usually no more than a big glass.

Generally no fried or processed food, but maybe a takeaway a couple of times a month max. Weekends usually involve lunch out somewhere followed by coffee and something nice on one or both days.

Exercise looks something like this, although I mix it up a bit.

5k run 2 times a week
7.5k once a week
25/30k cycle 3 times a week
Sporadically I do pushups and sit ups, but not on a regular basis
Back exercises every day to build up my core as I have had back problems in the past and this keeps it at bay.
I also do a few sportives which are generally around 100km and am doing a few duathlons as well.

The obvious thing for me to do is to cut out the takeaways etc, but to be honest I am reluctant to do that, having already significantly modified my diet. I also know that my portion size at dinner time needs to be reduced, and I am working on that.

Any other hints/tips?

You've lost 12kg - well done on that, by the way - but if your diet hasn't changed in terms of how much you eat then the weight loss has slowed. Your body needs fewer calories now so the calorie deficit you were in to lose the weight is now about th maintenance level. So you need to bring a deficit back by looking at your portions and looking at fitting back on the something nice with the coffee at the weekend and the other elements you know not to be ideal.

Macy0161

Just based on my experience is look at portion size. You could also look at what you're getting at the takeaway, particularly sides from Chinese. I swapped my old favourite chicken curry, for chicken black bean. And went boiled rice only.

That was partly just for diet reasons, but also I found I could make a nicer chicken curry myself. Google fakeaways for some options too - I actually prefer my "fakeaway" taco chips to the chipper ones now. I make a batch of the mince and freeze them, and just do the sauce while the wedges are cooking. It's a treat at the weekend even though it's not even that much of a cheat. Bit more calories than my normal dinner but not off the scale.

Mellor

ford2600 wrote: »

Can you accurately put numbers on his BMR,TREE and NEAT?

Can you say how much they have changed since OP started dieting? How accurate can you be?

Can I put exact numbers on them. No. THey vary day to day and it's not possible to put pinpoint number on them.

But do we need to put accurate numbers on them? In my opinion, No.
The fact is, his energy usage now is almost certainly lower than when he started. If he wants to keep losing weight at the same rate, he'll need to decrease his intake. Maybe there have been small changes to the way he metabolises fat. It that means he is actually running a deficit of 400 cals rather than 500 cals he'll still lose weight.

I'm sure there will definitely be a point where the body defends so hard against further fat loss that its not so easy to achieve. But I doubt that point has beed reach yet. It's more of an issue at 10% than 20% bf. (granted we don't know OP bf%, but I think we can assume its not 10%).
He mentions he eats lunch out on one or both days at the weekend. In addition to a few takeaways a month. So that's maybe 10 meals per months that are outside a weight loss plan. I'm all for relaxing the diet during the weekend, but 10 meals is a lot. That is thousands of extra calories per month. Easily wipes out the deficit.

ford2600

Mellor wrote: »

Can I put exact numbers on them. No. THey vary day to day and it's not possible to put pinpoint number on them.

But do we need to put accurate numbers on them? In my opinion, No.
The fact is, his energy usage now is almost certainly lower than when he started. If he wants to keep losing weight at the same rate, he'll need to decrease his intake. Maybe there have been small changes to the way he metabolises fat. It that means he is actually running a deficit of 400 cals rather than 500 cals he'll still lose weight.

I'm sure there will definitely be a point where the body defends so hard against further fat loss that its not so easy to achieve. But I doubt that point has beed reach yet. It's more of an issue at 10% than 20% bf. (granted we don't know OP bf%, but I think we can assume its not 10%).
He mentions he eats lunch out on one or both days at the weekend. In addition to a few takeaways a month. So that's maybe 10 meals per months that are outside a weight loss plan. I'm all for relaxing the diet during the weekend, but 10 meals is a lot. That is thousands of extra calories per month. Easily wipes out the deficit.

The man has lost 12.9% of his body weight, in my opinion he would do well to try and maintain his current weight before he continues with a cut.

My original post mention he could do with tiding up his diet, so I'm all with you on the takeaways and eating out.

As for the bf%, 10%bf to OP and 10% bf to me and probably you are going to feel very different. IF he has been overweight for a long time and has lost his 12kgs or so quickly I'd certainly expect his leptin levels to be exerting an influence on his
*energy levels
* post exercise fatigue
* interest in food/wrong food choices

If his weight loss is the be sustainable in the long term, taking stock now and maintaining might be a good idea. Cutting out the junk now but eating better at maintenance levels would be a good idea imo.

The man is stuck(clue is in title). My post was in response to a glib reply of "just get in a deficit".

Dtp1979

ford2600 wrote: »

The man has lost 12.9% of his body weight, in my opinion he would do well to try and maintain his current weight before he continues with a cut.

My original post mention he could do with tiding up his diet, so I'm all with you on the takeaways and eating out.

As for the bf%, 10%bf to OP and 10% bf to me and probably you are going to feel very different. IF he has been overweight for a long time and has lost his 12kgs or so quickly I'd certainly expect his leptin levels to be exerting an influence on his
*energy levels
* post exercise fatigue
* interest in food/wrong food choices

If his weight loss is the be sustainable in the long term, taking stock now and maintaining might be a good idea. Cutting out the junk now but eating better at maintenance levels would be a good idea imo.

The man is stuck(clue is in title). My post was in response to a glib reply of "just get in a deficit".

Because basically, that's what's wrong, op isn't in a deficit

Alf Veedersane

Plenty of advice out from respected people about the concept of taking a diet break to maintain for a while before going back into a deficit so ford's advice is solid, ie clean up the diet and if still on a plateau, maintain for a while before go back in deficit.

Getting in a deficit isn't always the optimum solution. A lot of the time it is but sometimes, after that much weight loss, it isn't necessarily optimal.

jethrothe2nd

Mellor wrote:

He mentions he eats lunch out on one or both days at the weekend. In addition to a few takeaways a month. So that's maybe 10 meals per months that are outside a weight loss plan. I'm all for relaxing the diet during the weekend, but 10 meals is a lot. That is thousands of extra calories per month. Easily wipes out the deficit.

I think that nails it. 10 meals per month outside of the meal plan and thousands of extra calories. Put in black and white in front of me it's a no brainer really.

Mellor

ford2600 wrote: »

The man has lost 12.9% of his body weight, in my opinion he would do well to try and maintain his current weight before he continues with a cut.

As for the bf%, 10%bf to OP and 10% bf to me and probably you are going to feel very different. IF he has been overweight for a long time and has lost his 12kgs or so quickly I'd certainly expect his leptin levels to be exerting an influence on his
*energy levels
* post exercise fatigue
* interest in food/wrong food choices

If his weight loss is the be sustainable in the long term, taking stock now and maintaining might be a good idea.

Losing 12.9% of his body weight is a meaningless figure without knowing what his condition is atm. There a huge difference between the OP carrying 55kg of muscle mass and 70kg+, particularly from a hormonal POV.

If he has lost the weight very quickly a break would be beneficial. But I didn't see him mention that was the case. You are just assuming. Maybe it was a slow procress. As above, we are missing any relevant information in that respect. If it turns out to be the case, then re-evaluate the situation, but the current advice should be based on the current info imo.

The most important to consider, imo, is about taking stock now and maintaining for a while. Isn't that exactly what the OP has actually been doing? He had stopped losing weight and sat at maintenance for a while. The reason for it was clearly the eating out, take always and portions being too large. He was eating at maintenance. The fact it wasn't an intentional diet break is irrelevant to his system.
If he's already been doing it for a dew weeks, I'm not sure there is a benefit to keeping it up for a while. Again, as above, we are lacking relevant time frames.

jethrothe2nd

Mellor wrote: »

Losing 12.9% of his body weight is a meaningless figure without knowing what his condition is atm. There a huge difference between the OP carrying 55kg of muscle mass and 70kg+, particularly from a hormonal POV.

If he has lost the weight very quickly a break would be beneficial. But I didn't see him mention that was the case. You are just assuming. Maybe it was a slow procress. As above, we are missing any relevant information in that respect. If it turns out to be the case, then re-evaluate the situation, but the current advice should be based on the current info imo.

The most important to consider, imo, is about taking stock now and maintaining for a while. Isn't that exactly what the OP has actually been doing? He had stopped losing weight and sat at maintenance for a while. The reason for it was clearly the eating out, take always and portions being too large. He was eating at maintenance. The fact it wasn't an intentional diet break is irrelevant to his system.
If he's already been doing it for a dew weeks, I'm not sure there is a benefit to keeping it up for a while. Again, as above, we are lacking relevant time frames.

I took a slow and steady approach to losing weight, so it took about year and a half to get where I am now. I've been around the same weight with some minor fluctuations both ways for 4 or 5 months now.