Yet another Canyon diary - are things any better?

brownian

Knowing that Canyon has a bit of a bad rep for long waiting lists, I thought I'd give them a try, and report back to the wider bike-buying community if their customer service was as bad as their many detractors would claim.

I ordered a bike on Monday 8 August. I picked from the wide range of 'express bikes' that they say they keep in stock, and that can be picked up on the shop floor, if you happen to be in Koblenz, near Frankfurt ('Bike to go').

Paid by paypal. Got a confirmation email, with a German-language PDF that said 'expected despatch date 8-12 August.

Emailed them today, just to see if they were alive, and got an email back saying that it should be in the UPS this week, that I'd get an automated email, and (to my concern) apologising for the lead-time delay. So far, there's no lead-time delay, as they say 'a few working days' on the web, and the PDF said 'by 12 August - i.e. Friday'.

Incidentally, I did try several times to ask the same question by chat, but got a consistent 'call back later, we are all busy' message.

So - so far, not bad.

jamesd

Keep trying the chat as it gets free at times, I've a bike on order and suppose to ship at the end of this month so hoping it does

1bryan

the 'bad rep' came about from a once-off systems failure after they upgraded to handle their growing business. It was calamitous, but is hopefully something they've learned from.

I've ordered from them several times (including 3 different bikes). Only once from those 3 bike orders did I have a problem (a delay of almost a month, which really annoyed me because the week after the bike arrived they were selling that model for 300 quid cheaper in a stock clearance sale).

My first canyon bike was in 2007 when they were still a small operation based in Koblenz. Back then they really couldn't do enough for you. That was before they had any presence on twitter, live chats on their website, etc. 6 years later when I bought again they had opened a base in the UK and there was a notable drop in the quality of their customer service.

I've bought again since the systems crash and things seem to have changed again, for the better. I bought another bike, some wheels (in the recent sale), and other bits and bobs. All orders were delivered promptly and customer service was good. There was a minor mishap a couple of weeks ago where customers who had ordered that week were sent a mail saying that paypal had refused to process an order. It was sent in error but people were promptly notified.

I'd have no issue ordering from canyon. The high quality and good value is worth a little bit of (but not that much) pain on the customer service side.

Crocked

I ordered a bike in March, it wasn't from stock and had an estimated shipping date of the first week in May, it actually shipped 3 weeks early.

In terms of their customer support I didn't find it great. They no longer offer any discount if buying pedals etc at the same time as the bike. They wouldn't even setup my brakes like they do on the continent (the older bike is set-up for right hand front braking) citing some non existent regulations as to why they wouldn't. So now I have two road bikes with different brake set-ups!

I had a small problem with the bike on arrival and their support is very slow at times replying and are very selective in what they will answer and generally just ignore most of what you ask.So much so that they may as well have some bot set up to reply to emails.

So I found the processing of the order and shipping to be great but their customer service to be seriously lacking. They'll lose an absolute fortune if they provide the same customer service to the US when they launch there in the next few months

brownian

Today I heard from them again (their mail bots, at least, are very active in the UK, and to be fair, they seem to be real people).

'Your bike is in the despatch area and should provisionally ship this week'. I love words like 'should' and 'provisionally' - why a big company that has (no doubt) multiple UPS pickups per day can't say for sure that the item in the despatch area will be in UPS by 3pm today, I simply cannot imagine. Makes you appreciate the CRCs and Wiggles (and most astounding service of all, SwimCycleRun) of this world.

Anyway, told them that if it doesn't come before I need to go on holiday, I'll simply be sending it back. They probably don't care (what's one bike?), but it's about all the leverage the customer has.

On the broader 'bad rep' front, it certainly is true they had a classic systems failure, and they have climbed back out of it (the product quality seems to make up for a lot). But with a 'rep' like that, you'd expect they'd put a lot of effort into making their service better-than-good.

Anyway, will be interesting to see if the bike does 'provisionally ship' today or tomorrow.

thekooman

I had some similar issues but once the delivery was confirmed for 2 weeks time it actually arrived early.

order an Aeroad on the sale. I left my browser open overnight but it was out of stock the next morning; the website let me order it anyways as it was cached in the browser. rookie IT mistake!
5 days later support got back to me to say we've no Aeroad bikes left. Really bad form and bad management! so i went with a Ultimate CF SLX 8.0 and they broke the price difference with me. had the Ultimate CF SLX 2 weeks later.

I ordered a Speedmax AL 2 years ago and had it in 2 weeks as well. Response time to emails on new orders isnt quick enough and they have no Online Order Status portal which i mentioned to them. Said they are working on this.

CrowdedHouse

Crocked wrote: »

I ordered a bike in March, it wasn't from stock and had an estimated shipping date of the first week in May, it actually shipped 3 weeks early.

Something similar happened me - I ordered in May with an estimated date of early July, this wasn't too bad as between holidays and work I was away for most of June.
On my way out the door for the holiday I got a cheery 'it's on the way' email - with no one around to take the delivery and severely depleting my credit card for hols as well.

Had great craic with UPS trying to delay the delivery and had to take a day off to come home to get it.

While the bike itself was perfect I suspect that the box of accessories was recycled - I got two bells, two sets of reflectors, the small handbook looked used and a few random bits and pieces (black and white little rubber stoppers, foam rubber adhesive strips ? etc) and no feckin carbon paste.

Carawaystick

1bryan wrote: »

I've ordered from them several times (including 3 different bikes). Only once from those 3 bike orders did I have a problem (a delay of almost a month, which really annoyed me because the week after the bike arrived they were selling that model for 300 quid cheaper in a stock clearance sale).

Why didn't you cancel the order and order again at the new price? I presume the distance selling regs apply here,

1bryan

Carawaystick wrote: »

Why didn't you cancel the order and order again at the new price? I presume the distance selling regs apply here,

it never occurred to me that I could do that. I had my bike, had cycled it a couple of times, then they sent out their mail announcing a sale. I was annoyed, but I figured it was just tough.

Even if the bike arrived on time I'd still have been annoyed that they dropped the price 5 weeks later. The beauty of buying a bike in late summer I suppose.

thekooman

Weepsie wrote: »

You ordered it knowing it was out of stock and that's bad form?

i thought at the time that once i had it in the browser that it would go through... obviously not.

peneau

Lads, apologies if I'm hijacking this thread. I've ordered a Spectral and it's on its way. My query is, if you don't mind. Do any of you carry your Canyon on a bike rack attached to the rear of a car (non tow bar type) and if so what rack model to you use? I've been looking at a Saris Bones 3 Bike Boot Rack, but now have reservations given some reviews stating it may not be suitable for bikes with curved down bars. Any advice or suggestions much appreciated. Thanks.

1bryan

peneau wrote: »

Lads, apologies if I'm hijacking this thread. I've ordered a Spectral and it's on its way. My query is, if you don't mind. Do any of you carry your Canyon on a bike rack attached to the rear of a car (non tow bar type) and if so what rack model to you use? I've been looking at a Saris Bones 3 Bike Boot Rack, but now have reservations given some reviews stating it may not be suitable for bikes with curved down bars. Any advice or suggestions much appreciated. Thanks.

I use a basic enough Hollywood bike rack. Its fine.

https://www.evanscycles.com/hollywood-transporter-rack-f1-00103793

peneau

1bryan wrote: »

I use a basic enough Hollywood bike rack. Its fine.

https://www.evanscycles.com/hollywood-transporter-rack-f1-00103793

Looks good, cheaper too, thanks for that do you think it will work on a Ford Mondeo Saloon MKII with a boot spoiler ?

1bryan

peneau wrote: »

Looks good, cheaper too, thanks for that do you think it will work on a Ford Mondeo Saloon MKII with a boot spoiler ?

you lost me at saloon.

I have no idea, sorry.

peneau

1bryan wrote: »

you lost me at saloon.

I have no idea, sorry.

Non hatchback model. Thanks for your help

1bryan

peneau wrote: »

Non hatchback model. Thanks for your help

it will work fine on a non-hatchback/saloon car (I've used it on both anyway). Just, I don't know how much the spoiler would impede it though, without knowing what it looked like.

ILIKEFOOD

i love Canyon, they sent me their own brand bar tape that you can't buy, for free cos I asked for it. Can't wait to upgrade with them in the future.

velo.2010

ILIKEFOOD wrote: »

i love Canyon, they sent me their own brand bar tape that you can't buy, for free cos I asked for it. Can't wait to upgrade with them in the future.

Really? I'll have to try that. My 'white' bar tape is no longer such...

F.Grimes

I had a really great experience ordering from Canyon, arrived early and in top working condition.

I think its important to realise what Canyon is. They are not a normal bike shop, they don't have bikes ready to walk out the door. Just remember this when ordering and no what you could be possibly getting yourself into. However, I'm my case I was pleasantly surprised when mine arrived a full two weeks before the date indicated on the order.

Unknown Soldier

I am waiting on spare parts since February/March.

You would not believe the amount of emails I have had from Canyon, from confirmed to cancelled, to confirmed, lots of repeated links to payment etc

I'm a very patient person and quite frankly it is amusing me at this point.

Apparently, according to my last chat with them yesterday, I suggested I could sit back and relax, as all was well and the bits would be dispatched next week.

They said I could.

They sort of said that two months ago.

Their IT people who were in charge of the new system really should be fired IMO. I don't say that lightly either, but it's nearly 12 months or possibly more at this stage since they changed their systems over.

I could go on but I won't. I have four bike from them and they are great bikes, but now they are still a bit of a mess.

You can't even buy a Stem from them using their website.

oconnpad

i bought of Canyon around sept last year, their end of season sale where they'd 10% off their 2015 bikes in the factory outlet.
While bike was in stock (that just means parts are there) it wasn't made and ready to ship but took 2 weeks from order to when i had it, they mail when it's assembled, and then shipped.

When it arrived it had 11-32 cassette with medium cage.
I'd specifically asked them on the chat before i bought if it was medium or short cage. (There outlet doesn't tell you cassette details like their main product page, i suggested they should address that, still doesn't show details)

I got in touch with them, told them i didn't want the medium cage, they told me to buy short cage and 11-28 cassette send them receipt and they'd look after it.
They did and refunded fast.

So now i've a brand new medium cage / 11-32 cassette spare in case i ever bring it to continent

I have to say very happy with it and them, i did look at Rose and defo like the customization better than Canyon but ultimately i liked the Canyon bike more.

brownian

Today's diary entry... I mailed them this morning, saying I was a bit worried not to have received a 'your bike is with UPS email'. I got the following back, about 30 minutes later...

"It is still awaiting dispatch I'm afraid, it should be dispatched next week, it is due to the huge increase demand we have recently experienced and UPS simply don't have enough lorries to get our orders out quick enough for our customers. By next Wednesday your order should have shipped of which you will be notified and receive a UPS tracking code. Thanks for your understanding. "

To be fair to them, they reply to their emails. Sadly, it's starting to look like the widely-experienced run-around.

I find a huge increase in demand this late in the summer a bit hard to swallow - they may have got a spike in demand with their TdF sale (but if so, surely you'd get stock in, to address it?), but that's a while ago now anyway. And as for UPS not having enough trucks 8-).

According to UPS (this does include the whole world,tho)

Delivery fleet 104,926 package cars, vans, tractors, motorcycles,
UPS jet aircraft 237
Short-termed leased or Chartered aircraft 305
Deliveries per day - over 18 million.
...I don't see the guys in UPS's German hub (just up the road from Canyon, incidentally, wondering when they'll next have a van free.

It'd nearly make you fly to Frankfurt and just pick a bike up - apparently my bike is 'bike to go', and can be ridden away. Of course, I'd likely get there, and find that I needed a hotel for a few weeks...

brownian

oconnpad wrote: »

While bike was in stock (that just means parts are there) it wasn't made and ready to ship but took 2 weeks from order to when i had it, they mail when it's assembled, and then shipped.

According to that fount of verity, the Canyon website...

"If you're in the area, then our Bikes To Go can be picked up straight away from our showroom in Koblenz."

That'd include my bike, in my size....

brownian

So, no action over the weekend. But today I got an email (in German) saying 'your bike is on its way'. No further details - no UPS/DHL number or whatever...but it looks hopeful. I mailed the lads in Canyon UK for a tracking number, but haven't heard back.

Still, who knows....

jamesd

I mailed them this morning too - my bike is still down for production on the 25th August and shipping a week later, they told me all still looks like going to plan.

brownian

Getting tee-d off on Thursday, I put in an email to Rose, asking them if they could deliver their equivalent bike within 2 weeks. They have a 3-week build time on all their bikes, because you can configure the bike components from a broad menu. They said they could guarantee nothing, but could do their best. So I filled in the configurator (longer stem, different crank length, compact instead of semi-compact, dual-bolt seatpost and saddle so I can put my Gilles Berthoud on it), and pushed the big button.

The next day (Friday) I get a mail saying that it's en route. Today, the box has been picked up and is in DHL international shipping.

When both bikes get here, I'll choose which one I prefer, and send back the other one (at no charge - joy of internet shopping).

Nice things about Rose, so far
- you configure the bike as you want it.
- you deal with a real person (Udo Brockmann, head of telephone sales) with a real email address (udo.brockmann@etc).
- they make no promises, but then wildly exceed them in terms of service; generally their customer service has a good rep, and I can see why.

Nice things about Canyon
- more online reviews of the bike
- prettier website
- only running a few days behind schedule so far
- the lads in Canyon UK do answer the email (brexit must be killing their sterling sales)

As for the bikes
The two options are Canyon's ultimate CF SLX 8.0 di2 and Rose's X-lite team 3100 di2

The canyon
- has their sexy-sounding VCLS seatpost (not the split one, the basalt one)
- is a lovely blue colour
- has a fair few very positive online magazine reviews
- uses their proprietary Acros headset
- cannot be configured. The package is a lovely one, but it's the only one.

The rose
- is 300g lighter (maybe as there's no paint)
- is all standard interchangeable parts; only the integrated seat clamp makes me a bit dubious, but these seem unavoidable
- is not so pretty (matt raw carbon black) a colour
- comes with the components I chose, including a 'real' compact and slightly longer stem and cranks
- has pretty nice Ritchey seapost, stem and bars, which might be preferable to Canyon's own-brand, tho the VCLS seatpost gets good feedback.

They are both the same price (3500)

thekooman

brownian wrote: »

So, no action over the weekend. But today I got an email (in German) saying 'your bike is on its way'. No further details - no UPS/DHL number or whatever...but it looks hopeful. I mailed the lads in Canyon UK for a tracking number, but haven't heard back.

Still, who knows....

itll be shipped in the next day or so... then about 4 to 5 days before it gets here. based on experience

brownian

Yup - they mailed me a tracking number just now. The box is in Canyon, so I guess they'll pick up tomorrow. 5 days estimated delivery time.

velo.2010

So the long and short of it is... you ordered a bike from Canyon this day last week and it will probably arrive this week.

I think that's pretty good going in fairness. Bit of a crass move ordering two bikes and sending one back though.

brownian

velo.2010 wrote: »

Bit of a crass move ordering two bikes and sending one back though.

No, not really. Given that there are two pretty similar bikes, you have various ways to decide how to pick one. The best way is to see (and test-ride) both of them. That's what you'd do, if they were in a shop together.

The fact that both shops send you the bike, and both allow you to return the bike FOC, is clear indication that the suppliers intend that you can return what you don't want. The ability to return a bike is a key reason for ordering one online; if it was hard to do, or expensive, you'd be pushed towards a bricks-and-mortar shop.It's no shock to Canyon or Rose that some customers send their bikes back.

There is an overhead (about 30 euro) for the supplier, to ship your bike from Ireland back to Germany - you've already paid, yourself, for the outward shipping leg. However, there's a very good chance that you'll keep the bike, so it's a small risk for the supplier.

In my case, I know that I'm going to send back at least one of the bikes. So one of the suppliers is going to be down 30 euro (plus whatever time was invested in selling the bike to me - say, 10 minutes of email time, plus some assembly/boxing time). But if I try 2 bikes in a bike shop, the shop has to mess about with two bikes (including stocking them) and then lets me try both of them, and at best sells me one - the time spent on the other one is overhead.

To be 'not crass', I would have to order one bike, ride it, guess if it's nicer than the other bike, send it back (or not), order the other bike, try it, hope it's nicer than the first one...if not, send it back, and re-order the first one? Or just order one, without seeing the other one, and hope for the best. That hardly seems reasonable - it's the equivalent of going into your LBS and buying the first bike you try, regardless of their being other options.

Why anyone would not try both bikes is beyond me. But maybe I'm crass.

brownian

Sorry - yes, getting a bike within a week is pretty ok. This isn't a thread to bash Canyon, or to moan about online shopping, it's just a diary to inform other prospective Canyon/Rose customers.

Some elements of the Canyon experience have been a bit off ('UPS don't have enough trucks', for example). If in fact both bikes appear this week, then this is a sample-of-one demonstration that both companies have their act pretty well together, at least for the 'Bike to go' Canyons (and any Rose, it appears), and it might reassure others who are considering benefiting from the amazing value for money that these brands offer.

If, in fact, either bike arrives broken, or not as ordered, or dead late, or... I'll report back, and people can choose (or not) to take my experience into account when making their own buying decisions.

velo.2010

I would only add that you seemed to miss the fact that Canyon have markedly improved their delivery times in recent months. IMO, the 'diary' does read as someone looking to have a go at Canyon in wake of their previous failings last year.

My problem with Canyon isn't with their shipping times or communication with customers. Rather it's their insistence on using proprietary consumable parts on their bikes. But I suppose that's what we have to put up with when we get such good value bikes!

Good luck with what ever bike you choose.

brownian

2 weeks does seem an improvement on some of the bad experiences others have had - and over all isn't a bad time to get a bike in - an LBS will take that long if you order a bike. Let it be said that I haven't ordered from them before, so have no reason to have a go at them for last year's failings.

I guess that it's in the nature of a diary that you write how you feel. Maybe it was unrealistic to expect that a 600-person multi-million euro German company could actually put a bike in a box within a week...but I confess that does make me a bit impatient.

Anyway, thanks for the comments!

brownian

Bike actually en route now. Pretty decent updates, courtesy of the online parcel tracker. Probably here by Friday or Monday, I'm guessing.

Crocked

Be interested to see which one you prefer. When I bought mine I was between Canyon and Rose and went with Canyon as it looked nicer in the pics! You are doing it the right way in ordering both, test driving and returning the one you don't want.

buffalo

brownian wrote: »

The fact that both shops send you the bike, and both allow you to return the bike FOC, is clear indication that the suppliers intend that you can return what you don't want.

It's also a legal requirement for you to able to return goods bought online without specific reason.

C3PO

buffalo wrote: »

It's also a legal requirement for you to able to return goods bought online without specific reason.

As a matter of interest, is it acceptable to have used the goods? For example - actually ride a bike on the road?

Crocked

C3PO wrote: »

As a matter of interest, is it acceptable to have used the goods? For example - actually ride a bike on the road?

Yes, at least with Canyon anyway. Once it just normal/minimal wear, which I guessing means no damage/scratches etc.

You see on their outlet store they resell bikes which have some scuffs etc from display models or bikes which have been returned.

I think they have 30 days in their terms but maybe wrong on that.

brownian

30 days right of return for distance selling is (IIRC) an EU regulation. Which, for me at least, greatly facilitates distance selling, and making a reality of the 'European Single Market'.

The fact that the return postage is paid by the supplier is (I am fairly sure) a goodwill gesture - they can ask you to pay that. But for big things like bikes, the free return certainly encourages people to take the plunge.

Some place in the small print of one of the companies, there is something like 'we will refund you the full cost, less any reduction in value caused by you'. Neither company says anything like Rapha's 'wear this for a month and return it if you don't love it' policy. Various online fora have concluded that you can ride around the car park, but not up the Sally gap (or equivalent). I am tempted to fit my own wheels, and get in 20k or so on each one, to get some idea of ride quality...but am aware this could be costly.

brownian

So, at nine this morning the doorbell rang and the Canyon was there.

Ten days, order to delivery.

I think it's fair to conclude that (at least for 'express bikes' that are also 'bike to go'), their delivery is pretty good.

The bike comes very professionally packed, as you'd expect. As a nice bonus, there's a sort of mini-torque wrench with all the hex heads you'll need, plus a separate hex key for the slightly (but not excessively) fiddly integrated saddle clamp, plus some carbon grip paste, and a manual about an inch thick (in many languages).

Given that it's a manky morning, I'm not going to test-drive it just yet.

jamesd

Take a few pics of the bike for us please and share them

magicbastarder

buffalo wrote: »

It's also a legal requirement for you to able to return goods bought online without specific reason.

it's an interesting state of affairs - brick and mortar retailers are allowed refuse refund based simply on 'i changed my mind' (and obviously the policy on this varies from store to store), but i would feel too cheeky in ordering two bikes online with the express intention of returning at least one.
that said, i really only ever buy online if i can't find what i want in the shops.

1bryan

brownian wrote: »

So, at nine this morning the doorbell rang and the Canyon was there.

Ten days, order to delivery.

I think it's fair to conclude that (at least for 'express bikes' that are also 'bike to go'), their delivery is pretty good.

The bike comes very professionally packed, as you'd expect. As a nice bonus, there's a sort of mini-torque wrench with all the hex heads you'll need, plus a separate hex key for the slightly (but not excessively) fiddly integrated saddle clamp, plus some carbon grip paste, and a manual about an inch thick (in many languages).

Given that it's a manky morning, I'm not going to test-drive it just yet.

so what happens now? Are you going to cycle both a few times before deciding which to send back? Or will the one you reject have to be returned unused?

jamesd

Ive a canyon on order and was in the middle of the sizes but in chat they said to me to order 1 size and once I get it try a spin around my house and not to dirty it and it could be returned for a full refund.

magicbastarder

jamesd wrote: »

Ive a canyon on order and was in the middle of the sizes

i've heard a rule of thumb that if you're between sizes, measure your full arm span - if it's shorter than your height, go to the lower size, and the converse for the larger size.

Lumen

magicbastarder wrote: »

i've heard a rule of thumb that if you're between sizes, measure your full arm span - if it's shorter than your height, go to the lower size, and the converse for the larger size.

Another rule of thumb is that you can make a small bike larger (with set up) but you can't make a big bike smaller, so if in doubt size down.

I've proven this by successfully riding my son's tiny 24" racer across Dublin through traffic whilst totally failing to safely mount Raam's gigantic cyclocross bike.

peneau

Ordered mine July 29th, bike arrived on Monday 16th Aug

brownian

More good delivery results for Canyon (thanks, peneau) - I'm pretty well impressed with delivery in ten days.

peneau

brownian wrote: »

More good delivery results for Canyon (thanks, peneau) - I'm pretty well impressed with delivery in ten days.

Thanks. Yep to Merrion Square before Midday

brownian

1bryan wrote: »

so what happens now? Are you going to cycle both a few times before deciding which to send back? Or will the one you reject have to be returned unused?

I'm treating it like being in a bike shop. I'm (carefully) assembling both so I can compare them face to face (when the Rose gets here). If I fall in love with either one, then that's it. Otherwise, I'll take both for a short spin (probably on my own wheels, to which I would plan to upgrade anyway) up and down a short sharp hill, on a dry day. At that point, I'll wipe down and send back the one I don't prefer.

If I manage to crash/scratch both of them, look out for one of them on adverts - but I'm reasonably sure I can keep them both pristine for long enough to get an idea of which I prefer.

Luxman

Can I ask canyon buyers if the scanning of their cf bike arts played a part in their decision to purchase. They seem to be the only mfger doing so