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Berlin Q or Bust: Road to sub 2:45

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Super performance there J, top marks.

    I thought doing the 6x1m on Wed would hurt you a bit towards the end - but I guess it shows the mad side of running - you do a tough session like that and run a great race, I rest up and have a 'mare!

    it would make for an interesting debate I think - I've ran a few good times while not tapering, maybe its all in the mind, with a race that's just part of the process, versus something you build up???


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Singer


    Super performance there J, top marks.

    I thought doing the 6x1m on Wed would hurt you a bit towards the end - but I guess it shows the mad side of running - you do a tough session like that and run a great race, I rest up and have a 'mare!

    it would make for an interesting debate I think - I've ran a few good times while not tapering, maybe its all in the mind, with a race that's just part of the process, versus something you build up???

    My recent PBs were run without taper, other than one day of 3 or 4 miles a day or two out. The week of my 10k PB I did a club session, a double with 15 miles, a steady parkrun and 70 miles in total! I'm sure there's something in the science of tapering, but cutting down running doesn't seem to help a lot for me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Singer wrote: »
    My recent PBs were run without taper, other than one day of 3 or 4 miles a day or two out. The week of my 10k PB I did a club session, a double with 15 miles, a steady parkrun and 70 miles in total!

    I know quite a lot like you!
    My 5k PB was a few days after doing 3x1k/4x800 (Tues session/Fri race).


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    it would make for an interesting debate I think - I've ran a few good times while not tapering, maybe its all in the mind, with a race that's just part of the process, versus something you build up???

    My 10k pb was run off a 3x1200/3x600 session four days previous. Then I have ran crap races off similar sessions and have run great races off lighter sessions. It's hard to tell to be honest.

    Was watching some videos of Ben Rosario on YouTube last night and he mentioned about having a particularly tough session for one of his athletes the week of a big race.

    I think as you get to 10k and shorter it's maybe not as critical to have a taper week. I'll be trying different methods over the next year for sure. I'm definitely not gonna default to a taper week/light session every time. Reduction in volume slightly but maintain the intensity.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭MY BAD


    Super performance there J, top marks.

    I thought doing the 6x1m on Wed would hurt you a bit towards the end - but I guess it shows the mad side of running - you do a tough session like that and run a great race, I rest up and have a 'mare!

    it would make for an interesting debate I think - I've ran a few good times while not tapering, maybe its all in the mind, with a race that's just part of the process, versus something you build up???
    I need a session the week of the race. Maybe not a big session 6x1km tempo with 60 seconds off or a pyramid. If I don't I always feel flat.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Super performance there J, top marks.

    I thought doing the 6x1m on Wed would hurt you a bit towards the end - but I guess it shows the mad side of running - you do a tough session like that and run a great race, I rest up and have a 'mare!

    it would make for an interesting debate I think - I've ran a few good times while not tapering, maybe its all in the mind, with a race that's just part of the process, versus something you build up???

    I suppose there's a few different angles to this one from my end anyway.

    *I'm not putting as much emphasis on the warm up races this time. No taper apart from maybe a shakeout the day before, keeping mileage up especially early in the week. Don't get me wrong, i want to race well, but it's all with DCM in mind.

    *The mile session was controlled. Ive taken on board the observations about how hard I was running some sessions last time out and not making the same mistake. I also feel like i peaked early last block, so intensity is ramping up a bit slower this time around.

    *Whilst the Limerick Half ended in a bit of a disaster, i did achieve the gain in speed that I was looking for in the first 5 months of the year. 28:22 in Raheny & 35:11 (more like a 35:30 though) in the K Club. The upshot is that 36:40 pace for the 10k didn't feel like the effort it took to run 36:50 on New Years Day. I'm not saying it was comfortable now, especially on the canal, but it wasn't the vision blurring last 400m experience that say Raheny was this year :)

    As things ramp up this block with sessions and LR's maybe things might change but i don't think so. Before ive relied, almost solely, on the warm up races to give me confidence and belief to run a good marathon. I don't rely on them so much now (you can remind me about this when im in mourning about not breaking 60mins in the 10 miler or something ;) )


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Tue: 14.8k: 3 runs, one with pooch, other 2 to and from a babysitting gig.....all @recovery pace, 5:10ish....only felt decent on the last one.

    Wed: AM: 10.2k buggy: 51:31 @5:05/km
    PM: 8.2k: 39:46 @4:51/km

    Thu: AM: 12x400m Hills: Braveheart, forgot watch. Didn't go bananas but it felt like a good workout. I guess we'll never know! Just under the 14k by my estimates

    PM: 11.3k: 55:58 @4:58/km

    Fri: 13.1k: 1:04:30 @4:55/km

    Off to Tulfarris for a wedding after this one. Kept it relatively respectable....the draft Peroni running out about 5 pints in was probably a godsend ;)

    Sat: 5 miles recovery on plains. 45mins ish. Im getting really good at running the day after being on the sauce.

    Sun: Session: 6x3mins off 1min. Had been listening to Martin Yelling bang on about this for a while, and today seemed like a good time to try it. The suggestion was that if i felt up to session to fire away....10x1min on/off was a possibility but i felt i could push it a little more. Aim was for something around threshold....prob ended up a little faster but effort levels seemed appropriate. Paces ranged from 3:37 - 3:34/km. Felt great. 10 miles all in all for the day, 124k for the week.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Mon: 10k Easy: 48:52 @4:52/km

    50 laps of the green in front of the house :( buddy who doubles as my coach was getting married down in Wexford so id exhausted all babysitting avenues for the day and had the two boys at home......better than nothing. Great day down in the sunny south east after....

    Tue: 10 Miles Easy: 1:19:01 @4:54/km

    Wed: 10 Miles Relaxed: 1:13:07 @4:32/km
    At the Scarecrow Festival in Durrow, hopped out in Kildare town and ran the rest of the way home. Didn't plan to run at that pace, things were just feeling very comfortable :)

    Thu: 32k Progression LR: 2:23:58 @4:30/km

    General plan of action was 10k @4:45, 10k@4:30 & 12k @sub3 pace. Pretty much hit the targets, allowing for a couple of uphill and downhill kms etc. Best i've felt on a LR this block. Took a SIS gel @10 miles to test them out (got a good deal online and bought a box) and took on water at 10k & 26k. Wife's sister getting married tomorrow so ill get a recovery run in and prob give Saturday a miss :) free run at things from next Monday on......definitely feeling the good vibes about where i am at the moment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    healy1835 wrote: »
    Mon: 10k Easy: 48:52 @4:52/km

    50 laps of the green in front of the house :( buddy who doubles as my coach was getting married down in Wexford so id exhausted all babysitting avenues for the day and had the two boys at home......better than nothing. Great day down in the sunny south east after....

    50 laps! Wow! Can only imagine what the neighbours were thinking!! :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Bananaleaf wrote: »
    50 laps! Wow! Can only imagine what the neighbours were thinking!! :pac:

    You know what, i never gave them a single thought ;) there's a limit to how much stuff my brain can compute and at the moment there's some serious lag going on!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Singer


    healy1835 wrote: »
    Mon: 10k Easy: 48:52 @4:52/km

    50 laps of the green in front of the house :( buddy who doubles as my coach was getting married down in Wexford so id exhausted all babysitting avenues for the day and had the two boys at home......better than nothing. Great day down in the sunny south east after....

    You're an inspiration to us all :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Fri: 5 Miles Recovery: 41:19@5:08/km

    Sat: Tired and Emotional after wedding :)

    Sun: AM Buggy 5.3k: 25:42 @4:50/km
    PM 13k Easy: 1:02:30 @4:48/km

    Just over 100k for the week.

    Hoping now that i get a clear run at things. Not that things haven't been tipping along nicely, but weddings and stags are behind me and I can get into a nice routine again. No more alcohol until after DCM pretty much and will stricten up the diet from here on in too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Mon: AM 10k: 47:26 @4:44/km
    PM 10.2k: 49:25 @4:51/km

    Tue: 10Miles: 1:18:01 @4:51/km

    Nothing to report on any of these, body feeling quite good. This week's sessions will certainly test the legs; 6x2k & an 8 Mile tempo. GFA for London opens tomorrow, so trying not to get ahead of myself and research too much :) have 2 mins to spare so will hopefully be enough to get me in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Wed: Session: 6x2k off 2mins. Target 7:30-7:20

    Things are definitley ramping up a bit with this session popping onto the weekly plan. Did it on the tempo loop in the Camp, as always it's a good test with good variety over the 1.4k distance. Did it with my training buddy and a former Irish 800m international (lovely chap) who's on his way back from injury :o

    Splits: 7:11, 7:18, 7:29, 7:14, 7:21, 7:27

    First one was too hot, the 7:29 I managed to get caught having a drink away from the loop so i lost about 10secs there. The others were good hard efforts, having the climb twice on the last one almost put paid to me, but i finished hard to nip under the 7:30 mark.

    Delighted with that session, felt strong out there. Happy that I reined it in a little after the first rep. Last year i probably would have churned out a few more at that (unprescribed) pace. Was very very warm out there and i was pretty wiped by the end. Guts of 12k faster than the Race Series 10k from last week. Tipping.

    About 18k in total for the day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭ReeReeG


    healy1835 wrote:
    Things are definitley ramping up a bit with this session popping onto the weekly plan. Did it on the tempo loop in the Camp, as always it's a good test with good variety over the 1.4k distance. Did it with my training buddy and a former Irish 800m international (lovely chap) who's on his way back from injury


    Splits: 7:11, 7:18, 7:29, 7:14, 7:21, 7:27

    I'm such a dope, saw those splits as paces first and thought "are they not a bit slow for him..." But no, that is the amount of time it took you to run 2k isn't it! :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    ReeReeG wrote: »
    I'm such a dope, saw those splits as paces first and thought "are they not a bit slow for him..." But no, that is the amount of time it took you to run 2k isn't it! :)

    It was :) i wasn't particularly clear to be fair!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Thu: 10 Miles Recovery: 1:25:06 @5:17/km
    Trot across the plain. Training partner running Berlin so great chats and plans were going on....

    Fri: AM: 5 Miles Easy: 39:22 @4:53/km
    PM: 2 Miles w/pooch.....pissed rain a mile in so we just turned tail and ambled home :)

    Sat: 8 Mile Tempo: 48:58 @3:48/km

    This was the Double A-Side of this weeks pair of sessions. It had been in the back of my mind the last couple of days and i knew if it went well it would be a confidence booster.
    Myself and my buddy were both on the same page, nice and focused in the warm up, few strides, bit of a stretch....wasn't sure where exactly i was as regards pace 6:15-6:10 range was the target, and whilst I was confident enough, i'd had a decent 5 days of running behind me with a big session on Wed. We figured out a single 8 mile loop around the Curragh area and in the lashing rain and wind fired away.
    Turned out to be maybe the most satisfying tempo I've put in yet. My buddy, who's a few weeks ahead of me and has been up the road in most of the sessions weve done, pushed a bit from the start, but keeping with him wasn't proving too difficult.
    I had sort of figured that at maybe 5 or 6 miles i might start to struggle, but it was the opposite really, the more the run went on the better i felt and we finished together. Averaged 6:07's but it was really controlled. Two quality sessions in the bag for this week.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Sun: 20 Miles Easy: 2:32:56 @4:45/km

    We both were still buzzing from yesterday's tempo when we went out on this one. Not a great nights sleep prior to this but was feeling spot on. The man in charge sent orders through to cap it at 20miles rather than 36k and i wasn't going to argue with him, but i could have cranked out 4 more km no problem.

    133.5k for the week. Best 7 days of running i've put in yet I reckon :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Mon: Rest - Unplanned. Just couldn't get out.....

    Tue: 17k Easy: 1:21:17 @4:47/km

    Wed: Session: 4 Mile Tempo/5 min jog/4x1Mile off 2 mins jog

    Target was 6:15 pace for the tempo and faster than that for miles! Figured to go at around 6 min pace and see how that felt.
    Ended up cranking out 24:54, 6:03, 5:57, 5:57 & 5:54. All continuous running except for walking the recovery after the 3rd mile rep as partner was feeling a bit of a niggle.

    Felt fantastic on the 4 mile tempo part, really was reining myself in. Annoyingly i messed up the workout and after the 5 min recovery, the next step was another 4 miles rather than one. Had to prick around with the watch and manual lap it and lost at least 5 seconds through all the foostering and was subsequently annoyed for the rest of that rep! Copped myself on and finished with 3 solid miles.

    Over 20k all in all. Did some aqua jogging, exercises and steam room in the evening. 3 meaty sessions in a row done and dusted , no session Sat, LR Sun.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Thu: AM: 8 Miles Relaxed: 59:27 @4:37/km
    My lovely wife was heading away for the weekend so I wanted to get a double in, just in case a run or two didn't materialise over the weekend. Only problem was i had no-one to look after the two boys. Luckily enough it was a cracker of a morning so they played in the infield for an hour while dad churned out some laps. Job done :)

    PM: 10k Easy: 50:32 @5:03/km

    Fri: 10.2k Easy: 50:07 @4:52/km
    My own dad dropped down to me in the evening to let me out for an easy 10k.

    Sat: Nowt. Erin Healy awoke at 4am ready to take on the world. Of course she rustled her two brothers from their beds and the upshot was that by 6:30am, everyone had breakfasted and an already long day was suddenly looking even longer.......only thing for it was to get everyone dressed and into the car. Up to the PP, a great morning spent rambling around the Farmleigh side of the park. Somehow managed to keep Erin awake after her 8am nap ;) until 6pm.....Boys and their Daddy in asleep by 8pm. So there's a thorough report of a day's non-running!

    Sun: 32k Steady: 2:22:02 @4:26/km
    Met an old friend who's come back to running and is chasing a very agressive sub 3 DCM target. Run flew by as the chats were flowing. Felt strong at that pace.

    103k for the week off 5 days running. Delighted that I managed 100+k during an awkward enough week. Frank Duffy on Saturday, will be heading in with a similar attitude to the South Dublin 10k, but with a more agressive target this time out. Last 4 weeks have moved things up a notch or two, so hopefully that will show on Sat :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    Best of luck with the Frank Duffy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Motoring nicely there J.

    Might see you the weekend, but if I do FD it'll be as a session - I feel about 3 weeks behind where I'd like to be!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Motoring nicely there J.

    Might see you the weekend, but if I do FD it'll be as a session - I feel about 3 weeks behind where I'd like to be!!

    Great to have you back A. Was wondering if you had laid the log to rest. Will fire you a text re. FD. Currently scouring email and social media for news of London GFA......getting antsy now :o


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Dublin Week..........8 of 16 (had to check)

    Nearly half way through this block now and I'm feeling like I'm pretty much where I wanted to be at this stage.

    Mon: 8 Miles Recovery: 1:04:23 @5:00/km

    Out and around the bog listening to Second Captains.

    Tue: 18k Very Easy: 1:30:56 @5:03/km

    A slow ramble around the back roads of Newbridge. Neither of us was really in a humour to go any faster than that pace :)

    Wed: 16x400m off 45secs

    (74,76,76,76,76,75,75,75,77,76,77,75,75,75,76)

    Took to a very murky, wet and windy club track for this one. More often than not the man in charge would give me 400's the week of a target race. 'Turnover stuff, get the legs moving, get into a rhythym' were the mantras for the day.

    As is fairly usual, once i got a couple of reps under the belt, and got used to the recoveries (it's amazing how different a session this is with 45 instead of 60 recoveries) the session flew by and i definitely feel I've gotten a bit of speed back in the legs over the last 4 weeks.

    Just shy of 15k inc w/u & c/d

    Thu: 16k Easy inc 6k with the pooch.

    So as things have turned out I didn't get into London on a GFA. 2:57:20 ended up being the cut off. Just when I thought i'd laid my poor DCM performance to rest it comes back and bites me in the ass one last time! Thinking back about all the various ways i could have ran that race 40 seconds faster.......not a great way to spend a run :( I shouldn't have counted my chickens, but it was hard not to when there had never been a cut off before. Anyway, the hotel I'd booked can be cancelled and after an evening of bad vibes, i'm gonna park it.

    Touch wood, all things going to plan etc, i plan on going quite a bit faster over the next few years, so another GFA entry won't be an issue. This also removes any expediency as regards deciding what to do next spring. (All the usual suspects are now in play here...) DCM can occupy my running thoughts unemcumbered now, which brings us nicely to this weekend..... :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    All the best in the morning J, run well!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭Duanington


    I've no doubts at all that, as you say, GFA won't be an issue before too long with you J. Best of luck tomorrow, you're coming into really good shape


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭Wubble Wubble


    That's a p!$$3r about the GFA. You've improved a lot the last few years though, so all going well there'll be no issues next time. Best of luck tomorrow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    Best of Luck tomorrow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Fri: 7.6k Shakeout w/strides

    Sat: Frank Duffy: DNF

    Not a great day I'm afraid. Up in the park in decent time, parked up, read the paper. Met AMK for a warm up, skyblue from these parts came over and had a chat before the start of the race...all things going well. Race starts slightly early and away we go.

    Plan for the day was pretty straightforward; break 60 mins. I knew the first couple of miles would be quick, i'd lose a bit back coming up the s bends and towards the monument, then whatever I lost up the North Road I'd gain back and then some coming down Chesterfield and Acres, then dig in and finish hard up the Glen road......great plan in theory. First couple of parts went to plan, and then coming up past the Zoo i'm not feeling great. the thoughts of digging in up the North road are very unappealing, i'm telling myself I'm tired, not in great shape and I pull over and that's it my race is over.

    6.9k: 25:21 @3:42/km

    AMK caught up with me on my walk of shame back to the car and dispensed some very sound advice that was very much appreciated. I quit basically. There's a hundred things I could try and put it down to; lack of sleep, tiredness, heavy mileage, heat etc but these weren't really the reason. I should have dug in and came home in the best time I could. Might have been 59, might have been 62mins might have been 65, doesn't matter. I've ****ed on in this log about the warm up races not being as important this year and here I was quitting one of them mid race! A few chats last night set me straight, it's not gonna happen again. I'm gonna own it. Rather than sulk, I got back on the horse............

    Sun: 34k Easy: 2:41:18 @4:45/km

    .....STFU and go long long tomorrow was basically the advice I recieved. Headed out with a few mates and had a solid LR. Wasn't in the plan obviously, but it was just what I needed. Still where I need to be for DCM, that hasn't changed. Just have a score to settle with myself which will need to wait for a little while.

    115k for the week


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    Sorry to hear that things didn't go your way on Saturday.


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