Milk-- Liquid Gold??

Icelandicseige

Hi Folks,

My father and I own a small farm. We will be milking Jersey Cows. Milk from these cows has a higher content of butterfat/protein and is creamier! That's where we would be hoping to stand out.
We have been thinking of an idea to sell our milk direct to the Consumer by delivering our milk in the mornings in glass bottles to your household! Like they used to do in the Old days!!
Your opinion on getting Customers for such a Venture is much appreciated!
Thank you.

Water John

If you are not pasteurising you need a special licience from the Dept of Ag. They are very reluctant.
I think their is some raw milk sold at Limerick Milk Market if you want to investigate.
There possibly would be some interest in non homogenised milk, that is with the fat rising to the top.

drunkmonkey

Still very common in the UK, we used have it delivered but the milk man retired and nobody took on the round.
Still common in the UK, just don't think Irish people fancy getting up at that hour. for work anymore.
http://www.dairyuk.org/consumers/find-me-a-milkman

People have an awful hang up when you say fat, packed with more protein and creamy taste would sit better.
Tell any woman milk is actually a low fat drink and they won't believe you, even though full fat milk is a low fat drink.

Icelandicseige

Water John wrote: »

If you are not pasteurising you need a special licience from the Dept of Ag. They are very reluctant.
I think their is some raw milk sold at Limerick Milk Market if you want to investigate.
There possibly would be some interest in non homogenised milk, that is with the fat rising to the top.

Apologies, I meant to say that we would be Pasteurising the Milk! We're unsure of the Homogenised part yet!

Water John

Good points, Drunkmonkey. I thought you were busy chasing Skippy?

YFlyer

Icelandicseige wrote: »

Hi Folks,

My father and I own a small farm. We will be milking Jersey Cows. Milk from these cows has a higher content of butterfat/protein and is creamier! That's where we would be hoping to stand out.
We have been thinking of an idea to sell our milk direct to the Consumer by delivering our milk in the mornings in glass bottles to your household! Like they used to do in the Old days!!
Your opinion on getting Customers for such a Venture is much appreciated!
Thank you.

How long are the calves allowed to stay with their mother?

_Brian

YFlyer wrote: »

How long are the calves allowed to stay with their mother?

3-5 days would be typical for a dairy operation

mrawkward

And the projected revenue/costs for this enterprise? Processing plant, bottle washing/sanitising/filling/capping line plus chilled storage and transport.. All for the output of 50-80 cows. A true classic!

Speedwell

A relevant thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055253630

I would be interested in purchasing raw milk (for recipes in which I cook/process the milk; I'm not crazy). It is currently legal to sell and buy raw milk in Ireland provided certain criteria are met; this is not my area of expertise unfortunately (I'm just a cook).

duploelabs

Raw milk sale, as previously posted, is available for very limited sale. However, if you're to look at some cheesemakers, their demand for raw milk is considerable where their supply isn't met to their production scale (Usually they have their own herds).

Buford T. Justice XIX

duploelabs wrote: »

Raw milk sale, as previously posted, is available for very limited sale. However, if you're to look at some cheesemakers, their demand for raw milk is considerable where their supply isn't met to their production scale (Usually they have their own herds).

I think the OP wants to get a slice of the retail margin rather than the commodity price his milk is currently making. All supplying cheese makers would do is swap one commodity market for another.

OP, the of the reasons so few milk retailers go door-to-door is the difficulty in getting paid. You will have a sizeable percentage who will take the milk and be slow or fail to pay at all. Add into that the difficulty in getting a sizeable market within a small area and you are left with little time in actually producing/processing your milk and more of your time driving around delivering milk into a large catchment area and collecting for that milk in a timely manner.

Saying that, though, there may be an opportunity to provide that service in an area.

topper75

Is there research out there linking the raw milk with improved immunity with things like asthma etc.?

Some conditions have become strangely prevalent in recent years compared to when I was growing up.

I think for any true Irish person (derived from millenia of generations of cattle herders) milk consumption ain't a problem. It is a super food to me. Full fat please.

Speedwell

topper75 wrote: »

Is there research out there linking the raw milk with improved immunity with things like asthma etc.?

Some conditions have become strangely prevalent in recent years compared to when I was growing up.

I think for any true Irish person (derived from millenia of generations of cattle herders) milk consumption ain't a problem. It is a super food to me. Full fat please.

This might help (it's a review of literature by Johns Hopkins). tl;dr: "Overall, our review identified no evidence that the potential benefits of consuming raw milk outweigh the known health risks". Of course, the same could be said of consumption of raw eggs, Irish sausage, or chocolate. Don't fall into the trap of making dubious health claims when you might focus instead on (for example) the outstanding wholesomeness, cleanliness, and freshness of your product, and its superior performance in recipes.

http://www.jhsph.edu/research/centers-and-institutes/johns-hopkins-center-for-a-livable-future/_pdf/research/clf_reports/RawMilkMDJohnsHopkinsReport2014_1208_.pdf

Mrs OBumble

topper75 wrote: »

I think for any true Irish person (derived from millenia of generations of cattle herders) milk consumption ain't a problem. It is a super food to me. Full fat please.

Cow's milk is suitable for ... baby cows.

Most adult humans are lactose intolerant.

Water John

O'Bumble, what qualification have you to make that generalised diagnosis?

duploelabs

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Cow's milk is suitable for ... baby cows.

Most adult humans are lactose intolerant.

About 36% of europeans are, but this goes up to the mid nineties for Asians, which is why if a company like Nobu could crack the asian market they'd be rolling it in

Water John

I wonder is it enzyme A1 rather than lactose?

Then why are we selling infant formula to the Chinese or more interestingly why are they buying it?

duploelabs

Water John wrote: »

I wonder is it enzyme A1 rather than lactose?

Then why are we selling infant formula to the Chinese or more interestingly why are they buying it?

Because the process of formalising (?) breaks down the lactose strands to shorter ones, that's why goats (or camels or horse) milk is suggested to babies with reflux issues as the shorter strands found in these milks are easier to digest

topper75

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Cow's milk is suitable for ... baby cows.

Most adult humans are lactose intolerant.

Irish people aren't baby cows! It suits us just fine and we have our ancestors to thank.

You need to go read up on one of most interesting adaptations in recent human history. Sorry if it happens to have not been picked up in your own genes!

here is some archaeology if you are interested:

http://www.nature.com/news/archaeology-the-milk-revolution-1.13471

My old man used to saw I was like a young calf with all the milk I drank

Lots of people might be slightly lactose intolerant but it doesnt stop them having dairy. Our bodies are actually intolerant to a lot of stuff but we process it anyway and just get a bit of indigestion. Cereals for one thing.

The key to milkrounds as mentioned above is getting paid. Perhaps some form of online upfront payment could solve this issue? Would take a lot of knocking on doors to spread the word, so you could still do a 'round' and not be just a delivery service. But if the product was tasty enough and farm fresh people would buy it. You would need to increase your product line though - Cream, Cheese, Ice Cream, Yogurt. Then you have yourself a proper business and not just a product.

dudara

A lot of people don't want higher fat milk, plus there all the scaling/control issues mentioned earlier. But you might be able to develop a product (cheese, labneh, clotted cream, quark etc) that takes advantage of the higher fat content in Jersey milk.

mrawkward

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/ulster-bank-reaches-out-to-farmers-facing-milk-price-crisis-34950081.html

I see the OP has been on here but seems to be keeping the head down! Thread has to be a wind up!

VincePP

Here's someone doing simlar to what you are doing

http://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/news/one-man-co-op-goes-straight-to-consumer-276424.html

_Brian

I think OP shouldn't be too off by some of the posts here.

There are plenty of options to increase the value of your milk.
Selling it direct as you suggested.
But then there is also Cheese, youghert and Ice-cream.

what your describing is cutting out everyone and getting to the customer, but there are other options like cut out some of the middlemen but hook up with the likes of supervalue to retail the product for you.

duploelabs

_Brian wrote: »

I think OP shouldn't be too off by some of the posts here.

There are plenty of options to increase the value of your milk.
Selling it direct as you suggested.
But then there is also Cheese, youghert and Ice-cream.

what your describing is cutting out everyone and getting to the customer, but there are other options like cut out some of the middlemen but hook up with the likes of supervalue to retail the product for you.

Yeah but No. I am currently past the academic stage of the Supervalu/Musgraves course which you refer to (the food academy) and OPs scaleability is an issue.

Suppose OP does do their product development and establishes a niche product that our currently over-saturated dairy market hasn't realised yet.

Supposing they conduct the course which you suggested and make it though their (musgraves) criteria to proceed to trial. The trial consists of a 10 store group which must been maintained and delivered to yourself, not to mention twice weekly tastings which have to be done.

Then supposing that they reach the required sales figures to proceed to centralised distribution and billing which entails stocking in over 220 stores, how is OP going to scale up their operation???

Their product is based on dairy from their own Jersey cows, which have a limited production. I fully appreciate the higher grade of milk they produce and it is seriously a cut above. Usually in this case a brand would farm production out to a third party facility who would produce their product along a set of guidelines and recipes. However as their product is using a much higher grade of milk which cannot be sourced from anywhere, this option is out the window. Many many brands have made this jump but suffer from that third party production company 'value engineering' their product. Cutting corners to increase their margin at the behest of the quality of the brand. They couldn't give a sh!t, they're still following the recipe.

OP would have to not only finance a production and fit out of new facility, they would have to get a much bigger herd of jersey cows with their associated costs.

Mrs OBumble

topper75 wrote: »

Irish people aren't baby cows!

But they're happy to steal the cow's milk, which should be going to the baby cows.

duploelabs

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

But they're happy to steal the cow's milk, which should be going to the baby cows.

Who's the first man to milk a cow and what did they think they're doing- Billy Connolly

_Brian

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

But they're happy to steal the cow's milk, which should be going to the baby cows.

Stock are farmed in a symbiotic relationship which is mutually beneficial. No, they don't consent to the process, equally they don't seem to mind benifiting from the vastly improved conditions, feeds and improved mortality figures enjoyed by them.

Also, specifically for dairy cows they are an animal that exists only to be farmed. Due to successive breeding they would be incapable of living without being farmed. Even if farmers had the epifiny some would like and turned them loose the vast majority of dairy cattle would die painful deaths, so the system is the system.

Stealing implies a crime has been committed, perhaps as a means of educating everybody a link could be posted to an SI detailing the crime and appropriate actions ??

pedroeibar1

Threads like this should be killed early on – it is a total wind-up by a poster who is dreaming.
"My father and I own a small farm. We will be milking Jersey Cows."
Read his thread over on farming (he also has one over on ‘Sheep’ about getting into them also and I suspect the farming ability of anyone who has to ask how many more stock can be put on the land!) –

OP has no cattle (the farm and cattle are his father’s) and is dreaming about creating a dairy industry. His father has 50 cows on 80 acres. At today’s milk prices that would not produce a decent income for one, let alone support two people no matter what was done with the milk. Before even thinking about cheese/ milk distribution, capital expenditure needs to be addressed.
By his own admission the farm needs considerable upgrading. He needs to address how he can afford to borrow to
Buy stock to increase the herd
Build a cattleshed
Build a calving unit
Build a silage pit
Build a slurry pit
Build a yard/pens and cattle crush
Build a milking parlour including a refrigerated storage facility
Upgrade farm equipment (tractor,feeders, etc) to cater for increased size .

Next, should he want to market the milk direct, a pasteurizing plant would have to be built along with a bottling plant, production lines, refrigerated storage, etc.

Decent advice from well-meaning people will not do anything for him until he gets real and provides some figures and input himself.

Icelandicseige

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Threads like this should be killed early on – it is a total wind-up by a poster who is dreaming.
"My father and I own a small farm. We will be milking Jersey Cows."
Read his thread over on farming (he also has one over on ‘Sheep’ about getting into them also and I suspect the farming ability of anyone who has to ask how many more stock can be put on the land!) –

OP has no cattle (the farm and cattle are his father’s) and is dreaming about creating a dairy industry. His father has 50 cows on 80 acres. At today’s milk prices that would not produce a decent income for one, let alone support two people no matter what was done with the milk. Before even thinking about cheese/ milk distribution, capital expenditure needs to be addressed.
By his own admission the farm needs considerable upgrading. He needs to address how he can afford to borrow to
Buy stock to increase the herd
Build a cattleshed
Build a calving unit
Build a silage pit
Build a slurry pit
Build a yard/pens and cattle crush
Build a milking parlour including a refrigerated storage facility
Upgrade farm equipment (tractor,feeders, etc) to cater for increased size .

Next, should he want to market the milk direct, a pasteurizing plant would have to be built along with a bottling plant, production lines, refrigerated storage, etc.

Decent advice from well-meaning people will not do anything for him until he gets real and provides some figures and input himself.

Il just put you straight on a few things Inspector Gadget..
50% of the herd is in my name
We have a Cattle shed x2
We have a calving Unit
We don't use a silage pit. We use bales!
No Slurry Pit. We have Tanks!
We have A big Yard, a usable Crush so no need to spend money there either. Yes we need to investment more in around the place but ROME WASNT BUILT IN A DAY. We will get there eventually....

Yes the Questions I ask are Real. I am keeping an open mind and trying to think outside the box to prevent my family farm from going down the swany!! My farming Experience is good and I ACTUALLY have papers here to say I'm a young Quailfied Farmer I.e Advanced Certificate In Agriculture.

Thank you For your concerns but I reckon I'll be ok with what ever I decide to do!! I might even do a thread to see if I could get into beef farming.!!

Icelandicseige

duploelabs wrote: »

Yeah but No. I am currently past the academic stage of the Supervalu/Musgraves course which you refer to (the food academy) and OPs scaleability is an issue.

Suppose OP does do their product development and establishes a niche product that our currently over-saturated dairy market hasn't realised yet.

Supposing they conduct the course which you suggested and make it though their (musgraves) criteria to proceed to trial. The trial consists of a 10 store group which must been maintained and delivered to yourself, not to mention twice weekly tastings which have to be done.

Then supposing that they reach the required sales figures to proceed to centralised distribution and billing which entails stocking in over 220 stores, how is OP going to scale up their operation???

Their product is based on dairy from their own Jersey cows, which have a limited production. I fully appreciate the higher grade of milk they produce and it is seriously a cut above. Usually in this case a brand would farm production out to a third party facility who would produce their product along a set of guidelines and recipes. However as their product is using a much higher grade of milk which cannot be sourced from anywhere, this option is out the window. Many many brands have made this jump but suffer from that third party production company 'value engineering' their product. Cutting corners to increase their margin at the behest of the quality of the brand. They couldn't give a sh!t, they're still following the recipe.

OP would have to not only finance a production and fit out of new facility, they would have to get a much bigger herd of jersey cows with their associated costs.

I understand your concerns but If things got so good that I would have to increase my herd I seriously doubt I would have a problem Financing it... You are talking on a Big Big scale I don't want anything to do with such an operation.! I'm talking on a small scale and increase slow and steady over several years. Just for your information,
Average Milk yield from a Cow/year 5000 litres
5000 x 50 Cows = 250,000 litres year
250,000 x €2 = 500,000
I realise there will be Costs in refrigeration and a plant. We will see. I'm looking for advise here. I didn't post to be told I'm way in over my head. I'm looking at a option here. No Money has been invested!

I know a guy in West Cork does it and charges €3 a litre. Don't know how well it sells for him though. I must try get in contact with him.

Sam Kade

Water John wrote: »

O'Bumble, what qualification have you to make that generalised diagnosis?

She's brain washed from YouTube videos.

ted1

In relation to your orginal question. We get milk Delivered every second day via the mymilkman.ie app it works well and as we are in a housing estate it makes it worth the milkmans while. You'd need to target clusters of houses, estates etc to make it worth your while . The most you could charge per litre delivered would be about 1.75 euro.
You are delivering a low volume low cost product so you need population density as diesel and time costs money.

If you are in rural Ireland but near a tourist town like Killarney you could target hotels with speciality milk you'll get higher volume but at a lower price

pedroeibar1

Icelandicseige wrote: »

I understand your concerns but If things got so good that I would have to increase my herd I seriously doubt I would have a problem Financing it... You are talking on a Big Big scale I don't want anything to do with such an operation.! I'm talking on a small scale and increase slow and steady over several years. Just for your information,
Average Milk yield from a Cow/year 5000 litres
5000 x 50 Cows = 250,000 litres year
250,000 x €2 = 500,000
I realise there will be Costs in refrigeration and a plant. We will see. I'm looking for advise here. I didn't post to be told I'm way in over my head. I'm looking at a option here. No Money has been invested!

I know a guy in West Cork does it and charges €3 a litre. Don't know how well it sells for him though. I must try get in contact with him.

You’re actually getting good advice but you do not want to hear it. The figures you produced are totally irrelevant without referencing the input costs.

You are suggesting a milk round - so housing density, so housing estates. People in housing estates generally have large mortgages, children and right now are, and have been, feeling considerable financial pressure. The notion that they are going to pay you €2 euro plus for a litre of milk when it can be bought for €1.29 in the local shop is simply pie-in-the-sky.

I also wonder about your skills, buying in hay instead of silage, when anyone with a half notion of farming would be aware that cows consuming silage produce significantly more milk than cows consuming hay.

Let’s ignore all those nasty questions (and other relevant ones like the age of the herd) and for the sake of simplicity, even out production volumes and agree that your 50 cows produce 700 litres a day from a morning and evening milking. You then have to pasteurize, bottle, label and distribute it. If a customer buys on average 2 litres a day, you need 350 customers. If it takes 5 minutes per customer (that includes driving time, walking time, collecting cash, etc.) the total time taken is +/- 30 hours. Add to that the four hours taken to bring in the cattle, clean, sterilize, etc. (I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt on a decent multi-bay milking set-up, which I doubt you have.) So with 34 hours and an eight hour day you will need 4 staff with vans plus yourself on the farm.

No point making a smart response that you are going to start small and work up – the capital cost of upgrading the sheds you have and building a new one to install a pasteurizing plant and bottling line, along with the costs of insurance, certification, QC, etc., make a scaled-down version of your project totally unviable from an economic perspective.

As for borrowing to finance such a project, I’m not the first to tell you that no lender would touch you with a bargepole. What counts is proven repayment ability, i.e. cashflow, and a viable business model.

Icelandicseige

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

You’re actually getting good advice but you do not want to hear it. The figures you produced are totally irrelevant without referencing the input costs.

You are suggesting a milk round - so housing density, so housing estates. People in housing estates generally have large mortgages, children and right now are, and have been, feeling considerable financial pressure. The notion that they are going to pay you €2 euro plus for a litre of milk when it can be bought for €1.29 in the local shop is simply pie-in-the-sky.

I also wonder about your skills, buying in hay instead of silage, when anyone with a half notion of farming would be aware that cows consuming silage produce significantly more milk than cows consuming hay.

Let’s ignore all those nasty questions (and other relevant ones like the age of the herd) and for the sake of simplicity, even out production volumes and agree that your 50 cows produce 700 litres a day from a morning and evening milking. You then have to pasteurize, bottle, label and distribute it. If a customer buys on average 2 litres a day, you need 350 customers. If it takes 5 minutes per customer (that includes driving time, walking time, collecting cash, etc.) the total time taken is +/- 30 hours. Add to that the four hours taken to bring in the cattle, clean, sterilize, etc. (I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt on a decent multi-bay milking set-up, which I doubt you have.) So with 34 hours and an eight hour day you will need 4 staff with vans plus yourself on the farm.

No point making a smart response that you are going to start small and work up – the capital cost of upgrading the sheds you have and building a new one to install a pasteurizing plant and bottling line, along with the costs of insurance, certification, QC, etc., make a scaled-down version of your project totally unviable from an economic perspective.

As for borrowing to finance such a project, I’m not the first to tell you that no lender would touch you with a bargepole. What counts is proven repayment ability, i.e. cashflow, and a viable business model.

What are you on.?
When have I mentioned anything about picking hay over Silage?
And the Age of the Herd?
You are away with the fairys and making up total nonsense.

So you doubt I have farming knowledge?and
You doubt that our parlour is up to scratch.?

Who the **** are you to make them assumptions?
Are you one of those people who looks their nose down on everyone else? Because it sure sounds like it...

I totally respect that you think it's a bad idea but why be an Ahole about it?
The only eligible thing you said there was about the time needed to Milk Cows, Run the Farm and Pasterise and bottle the milk and Deliver Door to door and AGAIN I WILL SAY I HAVE NOT INVESTED IN ANYTHING THIS IS AN IDEA THAT IM LOOKING FOR OPINIONS ON.
And maybe getting Credit might be difficult but again this is only an idea.

So why go through my past posts bringing them up and make stupid comments like Hay vs Silage that I have never said! The amount of time to do all that will take way longer than 34 Hours!! It'll be hard work that's why it's myself and my father and were not afraid of Work.
If your going to reply back Dont Make up **** that I have never said to try and improve your argument. Anyway this is getting me nowhere. I'm going to go top up my farming Knowledge!

tacofries

If your milk is very high in protein then maybe looking at companies that sell preprepared, high protein meals might be of interest. One example of the a company which matches the above is cleancutmeals.ie. I don't know how nutritious your milk is so you would want to make sure yourself that it fits into the healthy diet side of things!

Their target market would match yours thereby quickly introducing you to a lot of potential customers. They already have the distribution side of things covered and their products shelf life would be similar to yours. At the same time, like other posters have said, it would be easier to scale production to meet the needs of these companies in comparison to the likes of Musgraves.

Icelandicseige

tacofries wrote: »

If your milk is very high in protein then maybe looking at companies that sell preprepared, high protein meals might be of interest. One example of the a company which matches the above is cleancutmeals.ie. I don't know how nutritious your milk is so you would want to make sure yourself that it fits into the healthough diet side of things!

Their target market would match yours thereby quickly introducing you to a lot of potential customers. They already have the distribution side of things covered and their products shelf life would be similar to yours. At the same time, like other posters have said, it would be easier to scale production to meet the needs of these companies in comparison to the likes of Musgrave.

Thanks for your positive input. Very Good idea. Unfortunately they are at the other side of the country.

Water John

Any one wanting to establish a niche premium product is not looking at the Multiples. They would be the total opposite.
Putting a niche premium product into a restaurant would not be for margin but a mutual beneficial attachment. A bit of PR for both sides.

pedroeibar1

Icelandicseige wrote: »

The amount of time to do all that will take way longer than 34 Hours!! ...... Anyway this is getting me nowhere. I'm going to go top up my farming Knowledge!

I read your earlier posts. Good idea to top up your knowledge, I do it all the time - it's called CPD. Maybe you should look at a clock also. If it is going to take 'way longer than 34 hours' in a day, and you and Dad = two, neither of you will have much time in bed, and no hope of being home at six ( I do look at you previous posts, as I said ) Vaccinate everything, indeed.

_Brian

Well I don't think people should knock or mock op for having ideas or bouncing a few ideas around to see what people think.

From some of the responses I can see how this country turned into a bunch of lemmings following each other into Tesco et al to buy over processed rubbish farmed in another country.

We need more farmers with ideas to produce local niche products rather that insisting every business needs to be thinking of immediate expansion to Kerrygold proportions.

Icelandicseige

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I read your earlier posts. Good idea to top up your knowledge, I do it all the time - it's called CPD. Maybe you should look at a clock also. If it is going to take 'way longer than 34 hours' in a day, and you and Dad = two, neither of you will have much time in bed, and no hope of being home at six ( I do look at you previous posts, as I said ) Vaccinate everything, indeed.

Yes pick out something from my post to mock when you know I meant in a week.!
Your not contributing to the thread so how about going away?

pedroeibar1

_Brian wrote: »

Well I don't think people should knock or mock op for having ideas or bouncing a few ideas around to see what people think.

From some of the responses I can see how this country turned into a bunch of lemmings following each other into Tesco et al to buy over processed rubbish farmed in another country.

We need more farmers with ideas to produce local niche products rather that insisting every business needs to be thinking of immediate expansion to Kerrygold proportions.

I agree with you. I provided seed capital for two of the country's first artisan (that term was not used then) cheesemakers a few decades ago. Happily both are still around, and nationally recognized business names. I also worked with a farm community to develop a non-farming business that made them moderately successful. I have no issues with people bouncing ideas around, but anyone being rude to me gets a smack, and any daft idea deserves to be called as such. The OP has provided little concrete info, and to dismiss a comment/question on the age of his herd shows a lack of knowledge of the dairy industry. Anyone with any business accumen exited dairying unless they had the scope to milk 200+ cows. The OP is a waste of time with attitude.

Icelandicseige

_Brian wrote: »

Well I don't think people should knock or mock op for having ideas or bouncing a few ideas around to see what people think.

From some of the responses I can see how this country turned into a bunch of lemmings following each other into Tesco et al to buy over processed rubbish farmed in another country.

We need more farmers with ideas to produce local niche products rather that insisting every business needs to be thinking of immediate expansion to Kerrygold proportions.

A poster mentioned Food Acedemy here a few posts back Brian. Look it up there is some fantastic products being made and going onto Supervalu Selves. There is also ones that don't last to long though. It's all well and good stocking the shelves in a few shops but if they don't sell the managers of said shops won't be long about replacing your product for another!
A few Posters mentioned Scale Scale Scale.! They must have some serious products that they can't keep on the shelves and shops to match them!

Icelandicseige

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I agree with you. I provided seed capital for two of the country's first artisan (that term was not used then) cheesemakers a few decades ago. Happily both are still around, and nationally recognized business names. I also worked with a farm community to develop a non-farming business that made them moderately successful. I have no issues with people bouncing ideas around, but anyone being rude to me gets a smack, and any daft idea deserves to be called as such. The OP has provided little concrete info, and to dismiss a comment/question on the age of his herd shows a lack of knowledge of the dairy industry. Anyone with any business accumen exited dairying unless they had the scope to milk 200+ cows. The OP is a waste of time with attitude.

You honestly can't leave something down can you?
The age of a dairy herd is a ridiculous question every Herd of Cows in the country has all ages in it.. Anyone with farming Knowledge would know that.And I have worked on some of the biggest Dairy operations in Ireland so don't tell me I have no experience.. So I'm a waster now as well on top of everything else!?
By the sound of you you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth and if we met in public there wouldn't be two words out of you..So if I say please this time will you go away and stop mentioning me?

duploelabs

Water John wrote: »

Any one wanting to establish a niche premium product is not looking at the Multiples. They would be the total opposite.
Putting a niche premium product into a restaurant would not be for margin but a mutual beneficial attachment. A bit of PR for both sides.

Of all the cr@p written on this thread, this takes the (artisan hand-crafted gluten free) biscuit

dudara

duploelabs wrote: »

Of all the cr@p written on this thread, this takes the (artisan hand-crafted gluten free) biscuit

Actually, it's not an idea without merit. If an artisan producer can get their product into a high-end restaurant, it can do wonders in terms of PR and open up other high-end restaurants as customers.

I recently met the couple who run Ballyhoura mushrooms, and this is a significant part of their business.

duploelabs

dudara wrote: »

Actually, it's not an idea without merit. If an artisan producer can get their product into a high-end restaurant, it can do wonders in terms of PR and open up other high-end restaurants as customers.

I recently met the couple who run Ballyhoura mushrooms, and this is a significant part of their business.

I was referring to multiples being the antithesis of a high-end niche product.
However to address your point, foodtrade will take a 66-70% of the sale margin before tax, if Op hopes to get the €500kPA as they're hoping they'd better have a significant market catchment to be able to offload their production at the figures they've quoted as well as being able to distribute their stock and the restaurant being able to use it in three days considering their product isn't pasteurised. Using a third party distributors with refrigerated vans would take another 15-17% on top of the 66-70%

pedroeibar1

Icelandicseige wrote: »

The age of a dairy herd is a ridiculous question every Herd of Cows in the country has all ages in it.. Anyone with farming Knowledge would know that.........
By the sound of you you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth and if we met in public there wouldn't be two words out of you......

It is obvious that a herd of cows will be made up of all ages. The reason I asked that (a basic and valid dairying question) is that the age cohorts of the cows in a herd determine its productivity, how it should be managed and how much capital would be required to build a bigger herd (i.e. the replacement rate benchmark). How many first-calf heifers, or second-calf heifers, etc. , [Info.for non-farmers - cows grow for seven years before they start to decrease in weight. Proper herd management i.e. that which governs profit/loss takes this into account. They need to be sorted so that the nutritional needs of each cohort are met, and that each is not treated based on the average age of the herd.]

Why are you so dismissive and rude? Why not revert with some proper figures? Like the input costs associated with a herd you are supposed to take on? The posters here generally are not farmers, they give advice based on facts and figures, not on notions. Your input costs are critical and until you know them you can only dream. Bye now.:rolleyes:

mrawkward

Like most on here I suspect, I am not from a farming background but I am aware that our national agri advisory service Teagsc is held in huge regard globally. As a well educated progressive young farmer you must be in regular contact with them, it might help take things in a more positive direction on the wider commercial aspects if you were to share their advice/take on your plans.

duploelabs

mrawkward wrote: »

Like most on here I suspect, I am not from a farming background but I am aware that our national agri advisory service Teagsc is held in huge regard globally. As a well educated progressive young farmer you must be in regular contact with them, it might help take things in a more positive direction on the wider commercial aspects if you were to share their advice/take on your plans.

Teagsc deal with the scientific elements of the agrifood industry, not the commercial. Bord bia would handle the marketing

mrawkward

duploelabs wrote: »

Teagsc deal with the scientific elements of the agrifood industry, not the commercial. Bord bia would handle the marketing

I was tallking about the economic/investment/farm resources/production areas of farming.

The have a huge range of services in farm management/development etc see https://www.teagasc.ie/about/farm-advisory/