Advice on flock expansion

weatherbyfoxer

Right lads have got some good insight for here before and would appreciate a bit more....

I'm trying to expand the my flock from 100 ewes to 200 as soon as I can...hoping to spend €5k on sheep this year....currently have around 100 mainly belclare x Suffolk ewes but not a real fan of belclares I cross them to a charlaois and a Suffolk ram.. I'm willing to try different breeds or crosses of ewe.(mule,hilltex...etc)

All sheep are on good quality dry land all land is well fenced too...so I'm not worried about hedge busting breeds or ewes not fit for the hills.also all sheep are Lambed in shed around the 1st of March ...any suggestions lads?

Green farmer

Same set up, numbers and expansion plan here. I'm doing it with llyen x and hilltex x ewe lambs. Not as easy as I thought to get the numbers up though, as cull ewes and unexpected losses keep moving me in the opposite direction. Haven't been to the marts yet this year but the hilltex should be easily sourced at rightish money. Find both mentioned breeds quiet to work with.

davidk1394

From what I'm reading your going in the right track. We bought 55 in lamb ewe lambs last February and hold onto some of our own replacements aswell. Once you go up in numbers it's important you have good handling facilities

Future Farmer

Fan of the mule myself.

How many ewe lambs you planning on keeping?

weatherbyfoxer

Thinking of smashing every piggy bank i can find and heading to mayo for 50+ ewe lambs...hoping I'll pick them up around €120-€130 per head...its a bit more that what I said I'd invest in the first post but money spent on good breeding stock is money well spent I reckon...would like mule hoggets but not at €200 each!

Future Farmer

You could buy 70 of these and two rams either!

https://www.donedeal.ie/sheep-for-sale/horned-ewes-/13056029

weatherbyfoxer

Future Farmer wrote: »

You could buy 70 of these and two rams either!

https://www.donedeal.ie/sheep-for-sale/horned-ewes-/13056029

Was thinking on those lines before but not a fan of half gummy horny!...think it might be a bit of a round about way of getting nice mules

Future Farmer

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

Was thinking on those lines before but not a fan of half gummy horny!...think it might be a bit of a round about way of getting nice mules

Yep it is, buy them, pick off the worst (cull), to ram, scan (emptys cull, triplets sell), ewe lambs keep (once the ewe wasn't a problem), ewes to factory (maybe keep the best of them).....

serfspup

saw 3 and 4 yr old perth ewes sold at 84 a piece last week thought they were good value and ideal stock for expanding flock
rapid expansion with stock of the one age eg all ewe lambs or all hoggets works its way through the system try to maintain more regular ages if possible.

also buying in raises the risk of abortion storms might want to check out vaccination programme

weatherbyfoxer

serfspup wrote: »

saw 3 and 4 yr old perth ewes sold at 84 a piece last week thought they were good value and ideal stock for expanding flock
rapid expansion with stock of the one age eg all ewe lambs or all hoggets works its way through the system try to maintain more regular ages if possible.

also buying in raises the risk of abortion storms might want to check out vaccination programme

Would good perth ewes be hard found?....would they need to be ran as a separate flock from my existing lowland flock?

serfspup

they would not be that common lanarks tend to be more plentiful
depends on the locality there were good perth types in waterford 20 years ago don't know if they still have them
some in donegal
why would you need to seperate them other than maybe at mating?

ganmo

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

Would good perth ewes be hard found?....would they need to be ran as a separate flock from my existing lowland flock?

hill sheep do grand when treated as lowlands

not so good the other way

Green farmer

ganmo wrote: »

hill sheep do grand when treated as lowlands

not so good the other way

Would they be harder to fence after used to wondering about ? Or would they be ok ?

ganmo

Green farmer wrote: »

Would they be harder to fence after used to wondering about ? Or would they be ok ?

If there's a gap they'll find it

Green farmer

ganmo wrote: »

If there's a gap they'll find it

Think I might stick to the ewe lambs so. Nothing worse then a sheep whose figured out the weak points in a setup.

weatherbyfoxer

Was thinking of going the horned ewes route but cull price on them is a lot poor.,also you would need a lot of them to insure a good percentage of quality ewe lambs.another thing is ram lambs would hang around a lot longer then the lowland lambs...

hedgecutting eddie

Thinking expanding my sheep flock 2 , have 120 acres of corn on own ground thinkin cuttin back on corn but always sayin to me self I'll give it another year but this year is the nail in the coffin hoping to go to 320-350 ewes this year bought 54 hoggets in borris last thurs 44 for €200 and 10 for €185

weatherbyfoxer

hedgecutting eddie wrote: »

Thinking expanding my sheep flock 2 , have 120 acres of corn on own ground thinkin cuttin back on corn but always sayin to me self I'll give it another year but this year is the nail in the coffin hoping to go to 320-350 ewes this year bought 54 hoggets in borris last thurs 44 for €200 and 10 for €185

€200 per head???

hedgecutting eddie

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

€200 per head???

Yes

Username John

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

€200 per head???

I'd agree, 200 seems steep... 150-180 would be about the run of em here... And maybe cheaper, but you'd be losing quality under the 150 nearly...

ganmo

Username John wrote: »

I'd agree, 200 seems steep... 150-180 would be about the run of em here... And maybe cheaper, but you'd be losing quality under the 150 nearly...

Ah if he wanted to spend 200 quid it's his own money

hedgecutting eddie

Tops made €248 ,the way I think is one cast ewe plus one lamb to buy a hogget so €100+€100

weatherbyfoxer

€10,650 for 54 sheep is a fair bit of investment..it's a good way of getting into quality stock fast but seems like a lot of money for not a lot of stock would you not reckon?

hedgecutting eddie

Oh kno it is but that's de price i had im my head and not buyin bad stock

Username John

ganmo wrote: »

Ah if he wanted to spend 200 quid it's his own money

You're right. It is, an fair play to Eddie, he put it up. Am sure they are top quality, not knocking em...
I pose am just saying I'd be a bit mane-er is all

Anyways, am selling up my few ewes and giving up lambing... And I sold some nice cheviot hoggets for a bit less than 200, so maybe I'm thinking of that too

weatherbyfoxer

Are they the borris speckled face hoggets Eddie?..there great powerful ewes...put them to a good texel ram and you have nice shapey lambs for mart or factory or put a Lyne or belclare on them and name your price for the ewe lambs

hedgecutting eddie

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

Are they the borris speckled face hoggets Eddie?..there great powerful ewes...put them to a good texel ram and you have nice shapey lambs for mart or factory or put a Lyne or belclare on them and name your price for the ewe lambs

Mayb Texel with some of them, for de ewe lambs have kept 60 ewe lambs this year don't think I'll lamb them ,shearer coming tomorrow evenin to shear them

Cran

expanding here too, 130 ewe lambs picked to retain and 40 bought so far. Hope to get another 30/40 ewe lambs, and maybe 50 ewes. Aim to lamb 700+ next year and see from there.

Eddie is it worth shearing the ewe lambs?

Lano Lynn

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

€10,650 for 54 sheep is a fair bit of investment..it's a good way of getting into quality stock fast but seems like a lot of money for not a lot of stock would you not reckon?

200 euro a head is 156 in old money......what would you get in store beef or weanlings and which has the better odds at making a PROFIT sheep or beef?

good on ya eddie for a few quid extra you are happy with what you got and I hope the seller is reasonably happy.

grassroot1

Best of luck with the hoggets Eddie. There is a good reason the Borris/Tullow ewe demands good money they are good sheep. I am sure they are sheep you would not be ashamed to show to anyone.
But as above if you are on a budget and need to increase numbers they might not be your first choice.

kk.man

hedgecutting eddie wrote: »

Thinking expanding my sheep flock 2 , have 120 acres of corn on own ground thinkin cuttin back on corn but always sayin to me self I'll give it another year but this year is the nail in the coffin hoping to go to 320-350 ewes this year bought 54 hoggets in borris last thurs 44 for €200 and 10 for €185

Fair play to you Eddie best of luck with them. The Borris ewe will not let you down in more ways than one...you calculation for justifying the price is very true....I believe all female sheep are under priced and are value for money at present.

cattle man

Far play Eddie. Expanded here as well have 70 ewe lambs kept and going to buy hoggets in next week or two had a similar figure as yourself in mind at the end of the day if you can have your money back in less than 12 months and still great sheep it's money well spend. You wouldn't get the same return out of cattle that's for sure.

What's going to be your vaccinations program bringing them into the flock toxo Enzo ???

hedgecutting eddie

cattle man wrote: »

Far play Eddie. Expanded here as well have 70 ewe lambs kept and going to buy hoggets in next week or two had a similar figure as yourself in mind at the end of the day if you can have your money back in less than 12 months and still great sheep it's money well spend. You wouldn't get the same return out of cattle that's for sure.

What's going to be your vaccinations program bringing them into the flock toxo Enzo ???

Was thinkin doin them for enzo may have a chat with de vet ,have 30 homebred hoggets this year 2

tomwaterford

hedgecutting eddie wrote: »

Tops made €248 ,the way I think is one cast ewe plus one lamb to buy a hogget so €100+€100

At e50-60 a head profit....those sheep will be 5 years old when they breakeven


Am I missing something here....not knocking you or anything.
But you need only look at any of the dairy threads to read tales of lads going head long into expansion with little regard for the calculator and the tale of woe that be sets them

weatherbyfoxer

Lano Lynn wrote: »

200 euro a head is 156 in old money......what would you get in store beef or weanlings and which has the better odds at making a PROFIT sheep or beef?

good on ya eddie for a few quid extra you are happy with what you got and I hope the seller is reasonably happy.

Sorry but if there is odds at making profit out of a 200 euro hogget I'm missing something..granted you'll have very stylish ewes and are garenteed quality...but it's the most expensive way of expanding a flock....maybe it's just me being a tight f##ker but when most lambs are making under €100 at the moment wouldn't drive me to spend huge money on hoggets

ganmo

Lano Lynn wrote: »

200 euro a head is 156 in old money......what would you get in store beef or weanlings and which has the better odds at making a PROFIT sheep or beef?

good on ya eddie for a few quid extra you are happy with what you got and I hope the seller is reasonably happy.

not too many ppl still working in punts, except the factories. I worked to out a while back that they are still paying the same rate as they were when they were paying for lbs

hedgecutting eddie

Ok sold half of my culls today in Kk mart 20 fat ewes didn't get meal mixture of broken mouths and bad udders got €110 that will take the pinch out of de hoggets

hedgecutting eddie

tomwaterford wrote: »

At e50-60 a head profit....those sheep will be 5 years old when they breakeven


Am I missing something here....not knocking you or anything.
But you need only look at any of the dairy threads to read tales of lads going head long into expansion with little regard for the calculator and the tale of woe that be sets them

Don't worry I'm well able to use a calculator every farm is different and all I look at is my farm and this is wat works de best for me

arctictree

Looking to buy in a load of ewe lambs myself and then will decide next year wether to put them in lamb or sell them. Hard to find good quality though as most farmers keep the good breeding stock to themselves.

Username John

hedgecutting eddie wrote: »

Ok sold half of my culls today in Kk mart 20 fat ewes didn't get meal mixture of broken mouths and bad udders got €110 that will take the pinch out of de hoggets

That's a great price for old ewes Eddie... They must have been in very good condition. I weaned mine a few weeks ago, and they are all still thin enough...

charolais0153

hedgecutting eddie wrote: »

Don't worry I'm well able to use a calculator every farm is different and all I look at is my farm and this is wat works de best for me

He he, will have 30 ewe lambs to sell out of 35 the best 5 will be kept circa 7-8 KGS heavier and out of better ewes and buy in a few hoggetts to keep the numbers increasing slightly

sea12

Username John wrote: »

You're right. It is, an fair play to Eddie, he put it up. Am sure they are top quality, not knocking em...
I pose am just saying I'd be a bit mane-er is all

Anyways, am selling up my few ewes and giving up lambing... And I sold some nice cheviot hoggets for a bit less than 200, so maybe I'm thinking of that too

John your post got lost in the excitement of the 200 euro hoggets. Did you sell your in mart or sell as a job lot. Planning on doing the same as yourself. Family commitments mean I will have to stop lambing for a year or two.
What's the mart price for 3-4 year old ewes

cattle man

What's people's opinions on vaccinations for toxo and Enzo in an expanding flock where you are buying in a large number of hoggets ?
Cost is 4 euro per vaccine 8 euro in total per ewe.
Plan on going from 140-250 ewes buy purchasing in mostly hoggets this year ?

Advice appreciated.

Green farmer

sea12 wrote: »

John your post got lost in the excitement of the 200 euro hoggets. Did you sell your in mart or sell as a job lot. Planning on doing the same as yourself. Family commitments mean I will have to stop lambing for a year or two.
What's the mart price for 3-4 year old ewes

You giving up sheep or just lambing John ? And going down stores route ? Heard of 3-4 yr olds making €120 in a clearance sale last week. I prefer ewe lambs myself unless their genuine. Throw the ram at them and you can kill any that don't go in lamb in spring if market is right.

Username John

Green farmer wrote: »

You giving up sheep or just lambing John ? And going down stores route ? Heard of 3-4 yr olds making €120 in a clearance sale last week. I prefer ewe lambs myself unless their genuine. Throw the ram at them and you can kill any that don't go in lamb in spring if market is right.

Hello,

Giving up lambing for a while anyways. Family is growing, new addition due in Jan :)

So time is coming under pressure, so will stop lambing for a while...

Bought some ewe lambs last week - well, no, I had some ewe lambs bought for me, is more accurate.
~30kgs, paid ~70euro
Mostly suffolk cross lambs, black-ish faces, but with a bit of speckle through em, nice ewe lambs I think... A few charolais in there which I could have done without, will prob sell those fat in Spring...

Sold some old ewes, but still good enough for breeding. They were a bit of a mixed bag, 3 - 5 years old... Sold em for 95euro. Maybe would have done better in the mart with em, but some were thin to be fair. Also, the lad came and collected em and that was that, which works better for me.

The rest of the ewes I'll factory later in the year when they are heavier...

So yeah, we'll see how we do with the ewe lambs now...

Green farmer

Username John wrote: »

Hello,

Giving up lambing for a while anyways. Family is growing, new addition due in Jan :)

So time is coming under pressure, so will stop lambing for a while

So yeah, we'll see how we do with the ewe lambs now...

Congrats John, you'll still be kept busy next spring, and at the same time keep the interest going with the ewes lambs. Nothing wrong if you can double the money by letting them roam around the field for a year.

Westernrock

cattle man
Registered User
What's people's opinions on vaccinations for toxo and Enzo in an expanding flock where you are buying in a large number of hoggets ?
Cost is 4 euro per vaccine 8 euro in total per ewe.
Plan on going from 140-250 ewes buy purchasing in mostly hoggets this year ?

Advice appreciated

The vaccine is cheap compared to abortions.
With hoggets making the prices mentioned it would be mad not to do them, big expense the first year if your expanding but their done for life with one shot so in the long run well worth it.
If you can keep bought in ewes separate from your main flock until after lambing that would be the ideal but might not work in everyones case.

early_riser

Expanded here in the spring time, was lucky the way things worked out as had nice bit of grass in reseeded field when no one had much grass and i was able to buy ewes with lambs at foot for reasonable money. Bought mostly young ewes and when the lamb is sold off them it will leave the ewe cheap. Bought 10 speckle and 10 leyn hoggets the same day both pens had 12 lambs at foot and paid 200 for the speckle face and 190 for the leyn. Most of the lambs sold and averged 85-90. Hoggets weaned over a month and are as good as my own dry hoggets

Siamsa Sessions

early_riser wrote: »

Expanded here in the spring time, was lucky the way things worked out as had nice bit of grass in reseeded field when no one had much grass and i was able to buy ewes with lambs at foot for reasonable money. Bought mostly young ewes and when the lamb is sold off them it will leave the ewe cheap. Bought 10 speckle and 10 leyn hoggets the same day both pens had 12 lambs at foot and paid 200 for the speckle face and 190 for the leyn. Most of the lambs sold and averged 85-90. Hoggets weaned over a month and are as good as my own dry hoggets

We did something similar - bought young sheep with lambs at foot. Got them in May so late enough lambs but going down this route suits where we're at building up numbers.

greysides

cattle man wrote: »

What's people's opinions on vaccinations for toxo and Enzo in an expanding flock where you are buying in a large number of hoggets ?
Cost is 4 euro per vaccine 8 euro in total per ewe.
Plan on going from 140-250 ewes buy purchasing in mostly hoggets this year ?

Advice appreciated.

My view would be you'd be crazy not to vaccinate for Enzo. Toxoplasmosis would be picked up while pregnant so vaccination would depend on where they were then and the likelihood of infection being present.