Farming and Asthma

Buford T. Justice XIX

Farming can help protect children from Asthma...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/04/opinion/health-secrets-of-the-amish.html?_r=0

It's an interesting finding that cleanliness can affect your childrens health in a bad way.

Panch18

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Farming can help protect children from Asthma...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/04/opinion/health-secrets-of-the-amish.html?_r=0

It's an interesting finding that cleanliness can affect your childrens health in a bad way.

Interesting stuff

Might make some people shut up about having kids out and about on farms

whelan2

Panch18 wrote: »

Interesting stuff

Might make some people shut up about having kids out and about on farms

Had kids out helping me dose/move calves this morning, a lad stopped and said it was a rare sight to see kids running through the fields and if he had his camera he would have loved a photo of them. Havent a clue who he was.

ganmo

whelan2 wrote: »

Had kids out helping me dose/move calves this morning, a lad stopped and said it was a rare sight to see kids running through the fields and if he had his camera he would have loved a photo of them. Havent a clue who he was.

people love watching other people work

Buford T. Justice XIX

Panch18 wrote: »

Interesting stuff

Might make some people shut up about having kids out and about on farms

It's funny the looks I get when people are told the kids are expected to do actual physical work on the farm to get their pocket money, it's like you are promoting child slavery:rolleyes:.

Modern parents obsessiveness about cleanliness may not be doing their children good in the long term either.

Waffletraktor

It to do with challenging immune systems, in the same way babies that receive anti biotics are at a much higher chance of asthma and allergies

Panch18

Waffletraktor wrote: »

It to do with challenging immune systems, in the same way babies that receive anti biotics are at a much higher chance of asthma and allergies

WEll that's it exactly

Everyone is so molly coddled these days they are gone soft out

whelan2

Panch18 wrote: »

WEll that's it exactly

Everyone is so molly coddled these days they are gone soft out

Think the free gp card for the under 6's will only have more people running to the doctor for the slightest sniffle their kids have

kowtow

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

It's an interesting finding that cleanliness can affect your childrens health in a bad way.

Its strange to think of it but this chorus of "bacteria is bad" is one of the most outrageous untruths ever to be swallowed by a whole population.

Large parts of us are made of bacteria... if they were dead so would we be.... and yet ever since that dammed "kills all known germs dead" advert we've been totally misled as a race.

We sterilise the soil and then feed it with a drip of chemicals (as I'd it were on life support, which I suppose it is in a way) ... and then we attempt to kill every living organism we come in to contact with... and then we teach our children that the world around us is dirty and dangerous but if something comes wrapped in plastic from an industrial unit it is somehow good and safe.

I've a feeling we were better served by evolution when we believed it would take care of us instead of vice versa.

_Brian

I've a friend at work and she is a self diagnosed clean freak. Everything is sterilised within an inch of its life.
She washes the floors twice a week with pure Milton fluid and same with work surfaces.
And so it follows her kids have a stream of ear and throat infections and asthma, with recouring doc visits and constant antibiotics. Definitely an example of an over sterile environment weakening children.

Children need exposure to a range of bacteria so they build resistance in general.

I worked in a sterile environment mysel for a long time and my health deteriorated the whole time I was there, only starting to recover when I left. For the last five years I worked there I had maybe 7 chest infections, but since leaving I had one the year I left and none since.

50HX

"I worked in a sterile environment mysel for a long time and my health deteriorated the whole time I was there, only starting to recover when I left. For the last five years I worked there I had maybe 7 chest infections, but since leaving I had one the year I left and none since".[/QUOTE]

Ditto

i worked in a cleanroom and twas the worst thing that happened me

once i left and got out in the cold, wind & rain i had one chest infection v min 2 every year inside

pedigree 6

I read somewhere that anyone that has a tattoo has a better immune system than non tattooed people. Haven't got one myself I get enough good and bad bacteria farming. But it ties in with that your immune system needs to be constantly slightly challenged to be able to withstand the big challenge when it comes. It's basically vaccination on a daily basis.

I'm not promoting parents get a I love mom tattoo on their kids but I thought it was interesting nonetheless.:D

Kovu

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I read somewhere that anyone that has a tattoo has a better immune system than non tattooed people. Haven't got one myself I get enough good and bad bacteria farming. But it ties in with that your immune system needs to be constantly slightly challenged to be able to withstand the big challenge when it comes. It's basically vaccination on a daily basis.

I'm not promoting parents get a I love mom tattoo on their kids but I thought it was interesting nonetheless.:D

Totally works. I can deflect bullets

Dawggone

I suffered badly from asthma as a child, right up to the time I started smoking at age 14.
Haven't had asthma since...costly cure in more ways than one.

Base price

My eldest brother suffered badly from asthma and eczema as a child. My Mother reckoned that goats milk was a great help for both conditions. My Grandparents kept a goat and we would bring milk back home every weekend when we visited.
I suffered with hayfever when I was young but grew out of it in my late teens but it has now returned in the form of sinus infections

pedigree 6

Base price wrote: »

My eldest brother suffered badly from asthma and eczema as a child. My Mother reckoned that goats milk was a great help for both conditions. My Grandparents kept a goat and we would bring milk back home every weekend when we visited.
I suffered with hayfever when I was young but grew out of it in my late teens but it has now returned in the form of sinus infections

It's not really the type of animal e.g goat or cow, it's more to do with the milk being unpasteurised. That's my take on it. Always drank our own milk here.
Shop milk tastes sour to me. I think you have to be brought up on it to get benefit. I'd rather drink our own milk tbh that passes all the quality creamery tests than milk not tested. More here-
http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/n-y-times-admits-raw-milk-is-cure-for-allergies/

Edit: just reading the linked article to the one above in the ny times and it could go back even further to the mother of the child, what her exposer to bacteria was at the time of gestation as well.

We're evolving the whole time.

pedigree 6

Be'jaysus I think I may start looking for a premium for my milk.:D
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/01/160127121556.htm

kowtow

pedigree 6 wrote:

I'm not promoting parents get a I love mom tattoo on their kids but I thought it was interesting nonetheless.

Perhaps a small list of chores, do they wouldn't have to be reminded all the time?

rangler1

Base price wrote: »

My eldest brother suffered badly from asthma and eczema as a child. My Mother reckoned that goats milk was a great help for both conditions. My Grandparents kept a goat and we would bring milk back home every weekend when we visited.
I suffered with hayfever when I was young but grew out of it in my late teens but it has now returned in the form of sinus infections

Most asthmatics, or any lung complaint, will improve by giving up cows milk,

pedigree 6

rangler1 wrote: »

Most asthmatics, or any lung complaint, will improve by giving up cows milk,

Sounds like there's a problem in your gut and the ability to digest lactose.
Lactase supplements should help.

blackdog1

pedigree 6 wrote:

Sounds like there's a problem in your gut and the ability to digest lactose. Lactase supplements should help.

No generally they say milk makes you produce more mucus. But at that stage you already have a problem...milk is seen as preventative not a cure. It reduces your likelihood of developing the problem it doesn't cure the problem once you have it.

rangler1

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Sounds like there's a problem in your gut and the ability to digest lactose.
Lactase supplements should help.

Some doctors recommend reducing milk intake even for chest infections, milk's supposed to increase mucus in the lungs.
Suppose it's like the vaccine/autism link, unless you're a sufferer, you won't have the same interest, you'll try any relief when you're in the throes of asthma ,

Kovu

Pretty sure I mentioned it here on boards before but a lot of my cousins have bad asthma even though their parents don't have it (uncles/aunts who grew up on the farm). But I don't believe that raw milk is a deciding factor as I had an uncle born here who had to emigrate due to breathing problems. Maybe a contributing factor? I reckon central heating is definitely more of an issue today, keeping a house heated all the time dries out the air so much and it can't be good for us. Even with my nephew in Finland, the parents are encouraged to let their child sleep (well wrapped up!) outside in the pram, rather than keep him in the stuffy house.
The house here only got central heating when I was 12, brother was older, we've never had any asthma symptoms compared to 2/3 of our cousins who were on inhalers as kids.

I still buy raw milk or take some from the quiet cows here, but I don't drink much of it by itself as I find it makes me cough a bit, think that's something to do with mucus production with the lactose.

pedigree 6

rangler1 wrote: »

Some doctors recommend reducing milk intake even for chest infections, milk's supposed to increase mucus in the lungs.
Suppose it's like the vaccine/autism link, unless you're a sufferer, you won't have the same interest, you'll try any relief when you're in the throes of asthma ,

Then the question has to be asked why is more mucus produced in some people's lungs than others. I think it's to do with your body's ability to produce lactase or lack of in cases and usually the older you get or if the gut is damaged it doesn't produce as much. We're learning new things the whole time as we go along.
http://www.medicinenet.com/hydrogen_breath_test/article.htm

whelan2

Kovu wrote: »

Pretty sure I mentioned it here on boards before but a lot of my cousins have bad asthma even though their parents don't have it (uncles/aunts who grew up on the farm). But I don't believe that raw milk is a deciding factor as I had an uncle born here who had to emigrate due to breathing problems. Maybe a contributing factor? I reckon central heating is definitely more of an issue today, keeping a house heated all the time dries out the air so much and it can't be good for us. Even with my nephew in Finland, the parents are encouraged to let their child sleep (well wrapped up!) outside in the pram, rather than keep him in the stuffy house.
The house here only got central heating when I was 12, brother was older, we've never had any asthma symptoms compared to 2/3 of our cousins who were on inhalers as kids.

I still buy raw milk or take some from the quiet cows here, but I don't drink much of it by itself as I find it makes me cough a bit, think that's something to do with mucus production with the lactose.

We lived in another house when the eldest lad was born, oh would always have an oil filled radiator going or a fan heater, eldest lad had asthma, other 2 kids didnt as we moved to were we are now before they were born and I threw out the fan heater and the oil filled heater

farawaygrass

whelan2 wrote: »

We lived in another house when the eldest lad was born, oh would always have an oil filled radiator going or a fan heater, eldest lad had asthma, other 2 kids didnt as we moved to were we are now before they were born and I threw out the fan heater and the oil filled heater

At what age did he develop asthma whelan? Just worrying about my own kids. And kovu, we have polish neighbours with a one year old. He is always in the pram outside once dry. They actually rarely have the heat on, have the door opened a lot actually and wear extra clothes instead.

whelan2

farawaygrass wrote: »

At what age did he develop asthma whelan? Just worrying about my own kids. And kovu, we have polish neighbours with a one year old. He is always in the pram outside once dry. They actually rarely have the heat on, have the door opened a lot actually and wear extra clothes instead.

At about 6 months. Those fan heaters and plug in oil filled radiators are giving out dry heat. Doctor advised to get rid of them. He stopped using inhalers when he was about 8

KatyMac

I have cousins that literally never came into contact with dirt, their mother was mad at the cleaning and the most unhealthy kids I've never came across.
On the other hand in this house we are 'just clean enough that the dirt won't kill us!' and we are all reasonably healthy - my kids had a bit of asthma when they were small, but are growing out of it. It is possible that the docs were a bit trigger happy calling it asthma anyway!
I'm all for a little bit of dirt!

kowtow

pedigree 6 wrote:

Then the question has to be asked why is more mucus produced in some people's lungs than others. I think it's to do with your body's ability to produce lactase or lack of in cases and usually the older you get or if the gut is damaged it doesn't produce as much. We're learning new things the whole time as we go along.

Presumably when we started homigenising milk we reduced lactose intake and therfore lactase production?

pedigree 6

kowtow wrote: »

Presumably when we started homigenising milk we reduced lactose intake and therfore lactase production?

Not sure. Asian children generally produce lactase up to the age of 6 and then they can't digest lactose as well as western people. So to get around this dairy companies are adding lactase to milk for that market. If you're lactose intolerant by adding lactase, your body is able to process lactose. Cheeses and yoghurts are easier digest for lactose intolerant people without adding lactase and still get your calcium plus some bacteria.

Actually when talking about bacteria your body and gut can't really operate without bacteria. Interesting Wikipedia article here and ties in with what brian was saying about working in a sterile environment. Then there's links in the article to asthma, depression in the brain, immunity, probiotics, etc.
I personally think the more bacteria that makes it to your gut the better, whether from the air, food, water. I don't mean eat or drink dirty food or water but eat fresh food that still has life about it.
It seems we still are only finding out about these things.
Anyway knock yourselves out.:pac:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gut_flora

kowtow

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Actually when talking about bacteria your body and gut can't really operate without bacteria. Interesting Wikipedia article here and ties in with what brian was saying about working in a sterile environment. Then there's links in the article to asthma, depression in the brain, immunity, probiotics, etc.
I personally think the more bacteria that makes it to your gut the better, whether from the air, food, water. I don't mean eat or drink dirty food or water but eat fresh food that still has life about it.
It seems we still are only finding out about these things.
Anyway knock yourselves out.:pac:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gut_flora

It's funny how the science based community keep "finding out about things" ... usually the same things they said they knew all about twenty years ago when they were killing them / banning them / or making them compulsory eating for children.

atlantic mist

have asthma myself, was fairly bad up to a few years ago, went through all food types to figure it out, gave up dairy, went on goats milk and got no benefit, eventually i landed on wheat as my issue, causes inflammation in the body for some and ive been living a different life since, our damp and constantly changing weather has an effect also.

pedigree 6

atlantic mist wrote: »

have asthma myself, was fairly bad up to a few years ago, went through all food types to figure it out, gave up dairy, went on goats milk and got no benefit, eventually i landed on wheat as my issue, causes inflammation in the body for some and ive been living a different life since, our damp and constantly changing weather has an effect also.

Do you have a total gluten free diet?
Or is it just wheat was the problem.

Chuchote

There's a theory out there that it's petroleum products that are the basis of the worldwide explosion of asthma, hayfever and allergies. Maybe farming people aren't as surrounded by petroleum-derived products and petrol and diesel fumes as city people?

yosemitesam1

kowtow wrote: »

It's funny how the science based community keep "finding out about things" ... usually the same things they said they knew all about twenty years ago when they were killing them / banning them / or making them compulsory eating for children.

Always had respect for all those doctors/researchers until I went to college,
wouldn't blindly trust anyone since. Its scary how they can be so close minded and not acknowledge the world is so complex that there's a good chance of your understanding being wrong no matter how many letters they have with their name

pedigree 6

Chuchote wrote: »

There's a theory out there that it's petroleum products that are the basis of the worldwide explosion of asthma, hayfever and allergies. Maybe farming people aren't as surrounded by petroleum-derived products and petrol and diesel fumes as city people?

I'm not sure if that holds water?
We've had traffic fumes since the 60's.
Yet current generation born now seem to be the worst affected ever by asthma, hayfever and allergies.

Chuchote

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I'm not sure if that holds water?
We've had traffic fumes since the 60's.
Yet current generation born now seem to be the worst affected ever by asthma, hayfever and allergies.

I think asthma and allergies started to be a thing in the 1960s, and have spiralled ever upwards since then. Diesel is more used now, and spinoffs from petroleum production are almost universal in city houses now – probably less so in country houses: formica and MDF furniture, sofas with petroleum-derived stuffing, plastic toys, petroleum-derived modern varnishes for floors and furniture, etc.

I never knew anyone with peanut or other allergy growing up in the 1950s and 1960s; now it's far from uncommon. Same with autism.

ganmo

Chuchote wrote: »

I think asthma and allergies started to be a thing in the 1960s, and have spiralled ever upwards since then. Diesel is more used now, and spinoffs from petroleum production are almost universal in city houses now – probably less so in country houses: formica and MDF furniture, sofas with petroleum-derived stuffing, plastic toys, petroleum-derived modern varnishes for floors and furniture, etc.

I never knew anyone with peanut or other allergy growing up in the 1950s and 1960s; now it's far from uncommon. Same with autism.

How many ppl had access to peanuts in that era?
The rise in autism is due to having a name, many stories of ppl that could easily be diagnosed as autistic now

Chuchote

Peanuts and other nuts were certainly available – peanut butter came in from America at that stage, and bags of 'monkey nuts' (raw peanuts) were a fairly standard treat.

Studies of autism, for instance in Silicon Valley, where there's one of the highest rates in the world, have refuted the idea that it's because it has a name that it's now highter.

Nowadays, your children go to school in polyester (petroleum product) uniforms, their clothes are washed in (petroleum product) detergents and dried in machines with petroleum-based anti-static sheets. They walk in over petroleum-derived carpets into rooms painted with petroleum-derived paints, play with computers and tablets and phones and TVs and radios built from petroleum-based materials and giving off the fumes from them. Windows are framed in (petroleum product) PVC-covered aluminium… You can't turn around without seeing and breathing in something made from a side product of petroleum.

When I went to school my uniforms were cotton, linen or wool – most kids didn't wear uniforms then, thankfully, but their clothes were made of the same. Nylon was a new and exciting product! Desks were solid wood, not MDF made of sawdust glued together with petroleum products.

Sure, there were petrol fumes and also diesel fumes from buses and farm machinery, but there wasn't the ubiquity of petroleum-derived products that there is now.

pedigree 6

Chuchote wrote: »

Peanuts and other nuts were certainly available – peanut butter came in from America at that stage, and bags of 'monkey nuts' (raw peanuts) were a fairly standard treat.

Studies of autism, for instance in Silicon Valley, where there's one of the highest rates in the world, have refuted the idea that it's because it has a name that it's now highter.

Nowadays, your children go to school in polyester (petroleum product) uniforms, their clothes are washed in (petroleum product) detergents and dried in machines with petroleum-based anti-static sheets. They walk in over petroleum-derived carpets into rooms painted with petroleum-derived paints, play with computers and tablets and phones and TVs and radios built from petroleum-based materials and giving off the fumes from them. Windows are framed in (petroleum product) PVC-covered aluminium… You can't turn around without seeing and breathing in something made from a side product of petroleum.

When I went to school my uniforms were cotton, linen or wool – most kids didn't wear uniforms then, thankfully, but their clothes were made of the same. Nylon was a new and exciting product! Desks were solid wood, not MDF made of sawdust glued together with petroleum products.

Sure, there were petrol fumes and also diesel fumes from buses and farm machinery, but there wasn't the ubiquity of petroleum-derived products that there is now.

I think the answer lies in bacteria or lack of in people.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/11374305/Fatal-peanut-allergies-could-be-cured-by-probiotic-bacteria-say-Australian-doctors.html
Take the opening post in this thread.
There were two study groups both genetically similar. One group had their houses in the farmyard with animals with all the family exposed to all kinds of bacteria everyday.
Then the other group had their houses away from the farmyard and they wouldn't even keep a pet dog near the house.
The first group had a lot lower incidences of asthma while the second group were actually higher than the U.S average.

It may actually be some link to lactobacillus group of bacteria.

ganmo

Chuchote wrote: »

Studies of autism, for instance in Silicon Valley, where there's one of the highest rates in the world, have refuted the idea that it's because it has a name that it's now highter.

the fact that autism is considered a genetic disorder doesn't give much credence to your argument. silcon valley may be the autism version of Ireland and CF

Kovu

ganmo wrote: »

the fact that autism is considered a genetic disorder doesn't give much credence to your argument. silcon valley may be the autism version of Ireland and CF

I was just about to say something similar. Isn't there a higher prevalence of people on the 'low autism spectrum' working in the computer industry? If so it would just stand to form that these people working in the same area are going to have kids and there will be a higher chance of these kids having autism.

kowtow

Kovu wrote: »

I was just about to say something similar. Isn't there a higher prevalence of people on the 'low autism spectrum' working in the computer industry? If so it would just stand to form that these people working in the same area are going to have kids and there will be a higher chance of these kids having autism.

I think nowadays we recognise as specific "conditions" many traits which we always there.. and many of them (ADD / ADHD springs to mind) are on what is now known as the autistic spectrum.

It's probably a good thing that we understand these conditions better, if only so that we don't punish the children who have them, but in many cases at least it's more important to understand and even celebrate these traits than it is to try and "cure" them... some real geniuses who have shaped the world over many centuries would have been somewhere on that spectrum.

Chuchote

Every autistic person I know comes from a family with a high level of serious intestinal disease… don't know if they're related.

But I still reckon petroleum ubiquity has to be to blame for the many allergies. Things can spark off other things that might lie dormant without a particular factor.

Look at the relatively new research that has found that children who are not outdoors for significant portions of their time in the two or three years before puberty are more likely to develop short sight. What happens is that in groups with a genetic predisposition to short sight, too much time indoors can lead to a glandular change that causes the eyeballs to stiffen into a myopic shape.

There are plenty of human populations without that genetic predisposition, and they could study in the dark for months at a time, like the ancient ollamhs of Ireland, without becoming half-blind. But in populations that have the genes, not-enough-light in those particular years will inevitably lead to shortsightedness. This is why a huge proportion of people across the Orient now wear glasses: they're held in to study for long hours in those pre-puberty years from, say, nine to twelve.

I would guess that there's a similar factor in action with asthma; I put the blame on petroleum products because they're everywhere, but of course it could be something else. After all, the doctors who discovered that smoking was a major cause of the newly-common disease of lung cancer assumed that petrol engines would be to blame for that.

atlantic mist

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Do you have a total gluten free diet?
Or is it just wheat was the problem.

Gluten is fine, just wheat...all wheat has been crossed with an african wheat going back a few decades, trying to improve drought resistance, tillage lads could educate us a bit more. By trying to create the superior plant we do loose other beneficial aspects which dont get highlighted enough...not a fan of the GMO products

pedigree 6

Links in with the discussion here.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/08/mouse-microbes-may-make-scientific-studies-harder-replicate

Perhaps in the future people working in sterile environments will have access to bacteria tablets to help their immune system.

pedigree 6

Chuchote wrote: »

Every autistic person I know comes from a family with a high level of serious intestinal disease… don't know if they're related.

But I still reckon petroleum ubiquity has to be to blame for the many allergies. Things can spark off other things that might lie dormant without a particular factor.

Look at the relatively new research that has found that children who are not outdoors for significant portions of their time in the two or three years before puberty are more likely to develop short sight. What happens is that in groups with a genetic predisposition to short sight, too much time indoors can lead to a glandular change that causes the eyeballs to stiffen into a myopic shape.

There are plenty of human populations without that genetic predisposition, and they could study in the dark for months at a time, like the ancient ollamhs of Ireland, without becoming half-blind. But in populations that have the genes, not-enough-light in those particular years will inevitably lead to shortsightedness. This is why a huge proportion of people across the Orient now wear glasses: they're held in to study for long hours in those pre-puberty years from, say, nine to twelve.

I would guess that there's a similar factor in action with asthma; I put the blame on petroleum products because they're everywhere, but of course it could be something else. After all, the doctors who discovered that smoking was a major cause of the newly-common disease of lung cancer assumed that petrol engines would be to blame for that.

This might interest you.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160616140723.htm

Chuchote

pedigree 6 wrote: »

This might interest you.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160616140723.htm

Thanks, very interesting. I wonder if it covers other effects at all. I knew a kid who developed, or maybe expressed, autism increasingly from around three or four; he had language, but gradually lost it. Horrible and sad.

pedigree 6

I reckon this link can be associated with this thread.

Amazing how they are able now to identify the different bacteria now.
Anyway here's the link.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/08/160831142914.htm

Chuchote

Farmers are exposed to moulds more than most workers - moulds are awful for asthmatics. For everyone else too, but particularly dangerous for asthma.

pedigree 6

Chuchote wrote: »

Farmers are exposed to moulds more than most workers - moulds are awful for asthmatics. For everyone else too, but particularly dangerous for asthma.

Yea farmer's lung was/is a condition associated with inhaling spores from mouldy hay or straw. Thankfully people are aware of this now and incidences are reduced now through better preservation (or people know how to make sure it's dry enough before baling) of hay and straw and if they have to deal with it to wear a face mask. Silage was a game changer too in reduction of cases.