Running on the road v pavement/safety

Craigevans1985

I'm no novice to running, marathons down and on track for this October again, but I have a bee in my bonnet about running on the road and safety.
The Rules of the Road state that as a pedestrian "If there is a footpath, you must use it."
Yet I nearly creamed a runner yesterday as I turned a sharp left corner to see a running on the road, with a footpath next to him, running against the traffic. I narrowly avoided a car coming the other way to avoid the idiot and then he stuck fingers up at me like I was in the wrong.
Now, as I said, I run, I run the 12 miles every other Friday to work and I can manage to run the whole thing without running on the tarmac once, pavement all the way except crossing the street. That's from out Lucan way, all the way to Dublin Port to work.
So am I missing something, is there some reason to run on the road that I don't get that negates the Rules of the Road, common sense and personal safety?
I see an awful lot of runners casually running on the road, with a footpath alongside. Don't get it...

Djoucer

I mainly run on the road to avoid slow joggers.

I’m actually quite fast and the other joggers just get in my way. I pay my taxes. Just because all the other slow coaches use the footpath it doesn’t mean I have to.

Motorists need to be more careful. There are other fine tuned machines also using the road, and they’re not made from metal.

Craigevans1985

Djoucer wrote: »

Just because all the other slow coaches use the footpath it doesn’t mean I have to.

Actually it does. That's the point, you are putting yourself in danger, and making cyclists and drivers avoid you when there are paths that you are required to use, that's the law strangely enough.

I run fast too, but I don't seem to run into any problems with congestion until I get to the quays. I can run miles without finding another runner.

I wouldn't cycle on a footpath, I don't run on the road unless it's in a race.

Djoucer

Craigevans1985 wrote: »

Actually it does. That's the point, you are putting yourself in danger, and making cyclists and drivers avoid you when there are paths that you are required to use, that's the law strangely enough.

If anything, it's the motorists who are dangerous. They constantly beep at me, a dangerous act that could cause me to veer into traffic with fright.

Sometimes I’m going so fast that when someone beeps it throws me a bit and I lose control of my legs.

Craigevans1985

Djoucer wrote: »

If anything, it's the motorists who are dangerous. They constantly beep at me, a dangerous act that could cause me to veer into traffic with fright.

Sometimes I’m going so fast that when someone beeps it throws me a bit and I lose control of my legs.

Wouldn't the lesson there be to get off the road? You're just in the wrong.

I don't have the same fright reaction to being beeped as I'm on the footpath keeping my legs under control

Craigevans1985

Craigevans1985 wrote: »

Wouldn't the lesson there be to get off the road? You're just in the wrong.

I don't have the same fright reaction to being beeped as I'm on the footpath keeping my legs under control

Ayway, off out now for a run, footpath hear I come

Djoucer

I gave an interview to my local newspaper on this very subject.

ThisRegard

Craigevans1985 wrote: »

Yet I nearly creamed a runner yesterday as I turned a sharp left corner to see a running on the road

What if it was a slow cyclist?

average_runner

ThisRegard wrote: »

What if it was a slow cyclist?

Run those b**tards down:D

average_runner

Craigevans1985 wrote: »

I'm no novice to running, marathons down and on track for this October again, but I have a bee in my bonnet about running on the road and safety.
The Rules of the Road state that as a pedestrian "If there is a footpath, you must use it."
Yet I nearly creamed a runner yesterday as I turned a sharp left corner to see a running on the road, with a footpath next to him, running against the traffic. I narrowly avoided a car coming the other way to avoid the idiot and then he stuck fingers up at me like I was in the wrong.
Now, as I said, I run, I run the 12 miles every other Friday to work and I can manage to run the whole thing without running on the tarmac once, pavement all the way except crossing the street. That's from out Lucan way, all the way to Dublin Port to work.
So am I missing something, is there some reason to run on the road that I don't get that negates the Rules of the Road, common sense and personal safety?
I see an awful lot of runners casually running on the road, with a footpath alongside. Don't get it...

Was this in Lucan? Where in Lucan if it was, as I run alot around there, but not on the road

Craigevans1985

coming out of the square turning left onto main street. Approach junction, look right to avoid cars coming from my right on my side of the road, avoid man running at bonnet of car on the wrong side o the road...

Craigevans1985

ThisRegard wrote: »

What if it was a slow cyclist?

the cyclist would be going the same direction as me, not approaching me on the same side of the road.

panda100

Is running on road surface better for your knees or is that a myth? Its why i run on the road!

ThisRegard

Craigevans1985 wrote: »

the cyclist would be going the same direction as me, not approaching me on the same side of the road.

Unless the runner was a cyber enhanced Usain Bolt it makes no difference. Runner takes up less space and you should have been anticipating at least a cyclist or other vehicle around the bend.

Craigevans1985

Djoucer wrote: »

I gave an interview to my local newspaper on this very subject.

dude, that's too funny. "Every evening it’s the same thing. He never moves over, even a little bit the c*nt.”
Did you write that yourself!

Craigevans1985

ThisRegard wrote: »

Unless the runner was a cyber enhanced Usain Bolt it makes no difference. Runner takes up less space and you should have been anticipating at least a cyclist or other vehicle around the bend.

That's my arse. If any person or vehicle was on the wrong side of the road then I would be in the right, full stop. We drive, cycle on the left in the direction of traffic. If a bike was going the same direction as me, guess what, I'd have seen him already as he would have ben ahead of me as I came down the lane and I would have seen him turn the corner. What I wouldn't expect would be some cyclist with a death wish cycling on the right hand side of the road against traffic. I would not be anticipating that, and nor would anyone else.

ThisRegard

How blind was this bend, can you link to it on Google maps?

I'm not condoning what the runner is doing, but I don't think he was a bigger hazzard than a cyclist in the same direction that you come upon on blind bend.

average_runner

Craigevans1985 wrote: »

That's my arse. If any person or vehicle was on the wrong side of the road then I would be in the right, full stop. We drive, cycle on the left in the direction of traffic. If a bike was going the same direction as me, guess what, I'd have seen him already as he would have ben ahead of me as I came down the lane and I would have seen him turn the corner. What I wouldn't expect would be some cyclist with a death wish cycling on the right hand side of the road against traffic. I would not be anticipating that, and nor would anyone else.

Your meant to run and walk towards the traffic so you can whats coming

Foo King Ell

average_runner wrote: »

Your meant to run and walk towards the traffic so you can whats coming

Man... When you are on a road without a pavement available.

seamus

I'm inclined to think that unless this guy was running right in the middle of the road or sprinting like bedamned, you were travelling either too fast or too tight around that corner if you needed to swerve at the last minute. What if he'd been a car broken down and pulled in? You'd have been screwed.

Doesn't excuse him running on the road around a blind bend, but you have lessons to learn about good driving technique from this incident too.

I do run on the road against traffic on occasion. Usually when there's a bad camber on the path or it's badly undulating. Even then I usually only go on the road when the traffic is miles away. I jump on the path when the traffic goes past, and then back onto the road. Templeogue road is a prime example of a path that's a disaster for running on.

average_runner

Foo King Ell wrote: »

Man... When you are on a road without a pavement available.

Yes we know if the pavement is present you should run on it, but if you decide not to, then run properly on the road, against the traffic

Foo King Ell

ThisRegard wrote: »

How blind was this bend, can you link to it on Google maps?

I'm not condoning what the runner is doing, but I don't think he was a bigger hazzard than a cyclist in the same direction that you come upon on blind bend.

Drive home later on and every time you cometo a junction and turn left, check your actions. You look right and then move off when its safe. The RSA site has all this info in huge detail, when turning left..."Make the turn, keeping close to the left-hand edge..." which would is what you generally do.

Foo King Ell

average_runner wrote: »

Yes we know if the pavement is present you should run on it, but if you decide not to, then run properly on the road, against the traffic

Nope. Again, RSA website, http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-of-the-road-eng.pdf you MUST WALK, if there is no footpath available. And then you do it on the right hand side approaching traffic.

ThisRegard

He wasn't turning left at a junction.

And do you blindly follow those RSA recommendations? If you were turning left and there was a hole, cyclist, pedestrian, dog, horse whatever, do you still keep close to the left-hand edge because the RSA told you to?

Anyway, I don't get the relevance of what you're saying to what you quoted.

Foo King Ell

seamus wrote: »

I'm inclined to think that unless this guy was running right in the middle of the road or sprinting like bedamned, you were travelling either too fast or too tight around that corner if you needed to swerve at the last minute. What if he'd been a car broken down and pulled in? You'd have been screwed.
.

Probably true

Foo King Ell

ThisRegard wrote: »

He wasn't turning left at a junction.

And do you blindly follow those RSA recommendations? If you were turning left and there was a hole, cyclist, pedestrian, dog, horse whatever, do you still keep close to the left-hand edge because the RSA told you to?

Anyway, I don't get the relevance of what you're saying to what you quoted.

It is left from the square onto main street Lucan.

And weirdly, the RSA didn't make the rules, it's from the Road Traffic Act that the state obliges us all to blindly follow?

magicpd

Seems that the general reply be.
1. No, you shouln't run on the road when there is a foopath available.
2. Yes, you can be a pedestrian on the road when there's no footpath, but you should walk on the right hand side and be safe
3. Since there might be something unexpected around a corner, take care when approaching the corner
4. The RSA doesn't know everything
5. In order of who comes off worst on the road, pedestrian-cyclist-motorbike-car-truck, so being at the bottom requires more self preservation

ThisRegard

Foo King Ell wrote: »

And weirdly, the RSA didn't make the rules, it's from the Road Traffic Act that the state obliges us all to blindly follow?

I never said they did, I'm not the one that mentioned the RSA and what you should do, you did.

How do you know it was from the square in Lucan, are you and the OP the same person?

Krusty_Clown

Craigevans1985 wrote: »

That's my arse. If any person or vehicle was on the wrong side of the road then I would be in the right, full stop. We drive, cycle on the left in the direction of traffic. If a bike was going the same direction as me, guess what, I'd have seen him already as he would have ben ahead of me as I came down the lane and I would have seen him turn the corner. What I wouldn't expect would be some cyclist with a death wish cycling on the right hand side of the road against traffic. I would not be anticipating that, and nor would anyone else.

When there is no footpath a pedestrian must walk or run on the right hand side of the road, towards oncoming traffic. It's in the same section of the rules of the road you quotes earlier. Of course when there is a footpath, they should be on it (as long as it's not obstructed by parked vehicles, cyclists, etc).

adrian522

I think the biggest problem I come across when running is vehicles turning left out of a minor road or driveway, they are looking right for oncoming traffic, often don't bother even glancing the other direction for pedestrians on the footpath. Nearly come to grief a few times over this.

walshb

This question is constantly asked on AR. The more pertinent question "Is it worth the risk if family members have to spend their time visiting your grave." The rights and wrongs mean F all if you are 6 feet under because you were stubborn and arrogant.

magicpd

ThisRegard wrote: »

I never said they did, I'm not the one that mentioned the RSA and what you should do, you did.

How do you know it was from the square in Lucan, are you and the OP the same person?

I think that was where the original poster said it was. In lucan somehwere if you read back?

magicpd

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

When there is no footpath a pedestrian must walk or run on the right hand side of the road, towards oncoming traffic. It's in the same section of the rules of the road you quotes earlier. Of course when there is a footpath, they should be on it (as long as it's not obstructed by parked vehicles, cyclists, etc).

Technically it says you need to walk on the right hand side not run. That's whats on the rules. Think that the bottom line is that since pedestrians will die in case of error they are probably the one who needs to be most careful

ThisRegard

magicpd wrote: »

I think that was where the original poster said it was. In lucan somehwere if you read back?

Ah, apologies to all, somehow missed that.

Krusty_Clown

magicpd wrote: »

Technically it says you need to walk on the right hand side not run. That's whats on the rules. Think that the bottom line is that since pedestrians will die in case of error they are probably the one who needs to be most careful

Running is simply fast-walking. The rules of the road don't legislate for the speed of walking.

What we need is a new set of rules. All motorised vehicle traffic should slow to 15km/hour, when there is no footpath present. I'll start the petition now. Problem solved. You can go back to the problems of eflow and tolltags, that seem to be bother you (and incidentally Craigevans1985 and Foo King Ell).

Foo King Ell

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Running is simply fast-walking. The rules of the road don't legislate for the speed of walking.

What we need is a new set of rules. All motorised vehicle traffic should slow to 15km/hour, when there is no footpath present. I'll start the petition now. Problem solved. You can go back to the problems of eflow and tolltags, that seem to be bother you (and incidentally Craigevans1985 and Foo King Ell).

Delighted that you're not one of the 80,000 people affected by the other stuff, feel free to stalk away. I have issues with Irish water, loud exhausts, cyclists with head cameras and much more, you'll find me there later.

average_runner

Foo King Ell wrote: »

Delighted that you're not one of the 80,000 people affected by the other stuff, feel free to stalk away. I have issues with Irish water, loud exhausts, cyclists with head cameras and much more, you'll find me there later.

Life is too short, just enjoy it.

magicpd

I agree.

Craigevans1985

Okay, I'm throwing up my hands. I don't think I was driving too fast, I do run and cycle and thought that this was a bit off given that it's not something I would do. I'll keep sticking to the pavement, and I'll crawl around the corner next time in case I come across one of you who decides to run down the road.

average_runner

Craigevans1985 wrote: »

Okay, I'm throwing up my hands. I don't think I was driving too fast, I do run and cycle and thought that this was a bit off given that it's not something I would do. I'll keep sticking to the pavement, and I'll crawl around the corner next time in case I come across one of you who decides to run down the road.

When you said the square, were you talking about the village in Lucan?
Where exactly was it, just trying to figure out the corner.

Chivito550

Djoucer wrote: »

Sometimes I’m going so fast that when someone beeps it throws me a bit and I lose control of my legs.

Doubtful for ultra runners.

Craigevans1985

average_runner wrote: »

When you said the square, were you talking about the village in Lucan? .

Yes, not sure how well you know it. The main street is largely full of cars parked on both sides, it's narrow enough as is. Here if that helps. 53.357478, -6.449777, last thing I expected was a runner on the road. But I will next time.

seamus

Craigevans1985 wrote: »

Yes, not sure how well you know it. The main street is largely full of cars parked on both sides, it's narrow enough as is. Here if that helps. 53.357478, -6.449777, last thing I expected was a runner on the road. But I will next time.

Presumably you were coming out of the square and turning left. In all fairness, there's no way you could have been coming out of there at any speed, visibility to your right is non-existent, and you're basically not expecting anything to be coming from your left. So you check the right, if it's clear, you go.

So it's understandable why you unconsciously "ignored" the road to your left - this is something we all do from time to time, especially on roads we're familiar with. Making assumptions causes a lot of accidents, but like I say we all do it from time to time. For example, just because a road is one-way, doesn't mean nothing is coming down it the wrong way. But how often have you made the assumption that nothing is? I know I have.

The runner for his part was probably on the road because the path(s) were busy, so he ran outside the cars. He should have the good sense to realise that vehicles coming out of side roads won't be expecting him, and to avoid placing himself in a situation where he might get struck by a car who hasn't spotted him.

Foo King Ell

seamus wrote: »

Presumably you were coming out of the square and turning left. In all fairness, there's no way you could have been coming out of there at any speed, visibility to your right is non-existent, and you're basically not expecting anything to be coming from your left. So you check the right, if it's clear, you go.

So it's understandable why you unconsciously "ignored" the road to your left - this is something we all do from time to time, especially on roads we're familiar with. Making assumptions causes a lot of accidents, but like I say we all do it from time to time. For example, just because a road is one-way, doesn't mean nothing is coming down it the wrong way. But how often have you made the assumption that nothing is? I know I have.

The runner for his part was probably on the road because the path(s) were busy, so he ran outside the cars. He should have the good sense to realise that vehicles coming out of side roads won't be expecting him, and to avoid placing himself in a situation where he might get struck by a car who hasn't spotted him.

Kinda echoing my thought. Its not what i would have done if i was running. I had my two near misses as a runner crossing the road and that was enough for me to run without assumption. As a driver i need to not assume that everyone else is taking the same care as a runner. That's my take away. 😀

average_runner

Craigevans1985 wrote: »

Yes, not sure how well you know it. The main street is largely full of cars parked on both sides, it's narrow enough as is. Here if that helps. 53.357478, -6.449777, last thing I expected was a runner on the road. But I will next time.

Actually the runner was an idiot for running on that road when busy. He/she won't be around long if he/she keeps doing that there.

I know the area well.

glacial_pace71

I've grumbled a lot previously re the arrogance and recklessness of cyclists, but I notice on the thread that quite a few people assume the pedestrian or runner would come off worse in any incident with a cyclist. This has been disproved on a number of occasions, quite recently with fatal consequences.

jamule

Runners are at the bottom of the chain, if something hits us thats running finished.
Always think safety.

If you have to run on the road , run on the right facing the traffic. But not always, use common sense
Use your ears
If there's a path use it
If there's a safer hard shoulder on the left side use it
Wear something so you can be seen
Use your ears
If your going around a bend that goes to the right go on the left side of the road
And use your ears
Don't be afraid to warn other road users. Wave down cars if you can see/hear something coming the opposite way that they cannot
I'm still lost at dangerous s bends, better try and avoid
Did I say use your ears.

average_runner

glacial_pace71 wrote: »

I've grumbled a lot previously re the arrogance and recklessness of cyclists, but I notice on the thread that quite a few people assume the pedestrian or runner would come off worse in any incident with a cyclist. This has been disproved on a number of occasions, quite recently with fatal consequences.

I would say the odds are stacked against the runner. Cyclist hit me on footpath 4 years ago, I had to get physio for 4 weeks, cyclist was grand

KielyUnusual

Yea, for some reason, this is quite prevalent on the road going from Bray to Shankhill. I can't really understand this because they have just layed some brand new tarmac paths that could not be a better surface for running on. I can somewhat understand it (if not quite condone it) when there is an uneven concrete path with a big wide road beside it but this just takes the biscuit. I do think that Waterford Whispers article captures the sense of entitlement and arrogance perfectly. Get over yourself and run on the path like every normal, self respecting human being

Krusty_Clown

KielyUnusual wrote: »

Yea, for some reason, this is quite prevalent on the road going from Bray to Shankhill. I can't really understand this because they have just layed some brand new tarmac paths that could not be a better surface for running on. I can somewhat understand it (if not quite condone it) when there is an uneven concrete path with a big wide road beside it but this just takes the biscuit. I do think that Waterford Whispers article captures the sense of entitlement and arrogance perfectly. Get over yourself and run on the path like every normal, self respecting human being

It's the graveyard. It's spooky.

Yeah, can't understand it myself. A lot of runners run on the road on that stretch, and I cannot fathom why. Runners should always use the footpath, where it is available. But there is an equal but opposite sense of entitlement on the roads where there is no footpath. Motorized vehicle drivers exhibit that same sense of entitlement, however, in this case, they are putting others lives at risk, rather than their own.