Horgan's Quay

cgcsb

Did anyone see this in the Examiner?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/quay-developments-set-to-transform-cork-city-and-harbour-747012.html

very exciting for Cork, it'll be great when the station is at least facing the right way. And it's great that CIÉ will get 10% of the rent on a 300 year lease, which may take pressure of the public subsidy. The max building height being a mere 7 storeys is a disappointment for such a central site.

namloc1980

Is this the 3rd time in the last decade or so that development of this site has been announced?

thejuggler

Pie in the sky. Irish rail have been talking about a quayside entrance to Kent station for 20 years. Is work actually in progress for this?
The rest is just fantasy. 7 years to get planning - the next recession will be underway by then.

namloc1980

thejuggler wrote: »

Pie in the sky. Irish rail have been talking about a quayside entrance to Kent station for 20 years. Is work actually in progress for this?

In fairness that part is happening. They started work at the beginning of the year. Expected to be complete in the coming months. The rest of it though is fantasy.

cgcsb

The Station works are underway which is great it's really strange in Cork arriving at the station only to find that you have to to exit away from the City.

roundymac

Boom times are on the way again, Celtic Tiger MKII:D,. Still there is demand for city centre office space, so anything is possible.

cgcsb

I wouldn't be too pesemistic, BAM have been selected by CIE by tender to work on the scheme so I'd say CIE are pretty serious about it. CIE are also steaming ahead with the station development and are planning on similar office schemes in Dublin.

ofcork

Its not supposed to happen for another 6 to 7 years with planning design etc.

P.lane78

Whats the betting that this will be delivered before the event centre

satanta99

http://www.hqcork.com - the website is gone live.

Planning has been applied for this week according to the article below:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/property/major-hq-development-for-cork-quayside-458473.html#

237 apartments, a 136-bed hotel, 400,000 sq ft of offices and some retail are proposed.

mire

namloc1980 wrote: »

In fairness that part is happening. They started work at the beginning of the year. Expected to be complete in the coming months. The rest of it though is fantasy.

don't think so; this is not a speculative development.

whisky_galore

cgcsb wrote: »

The Station works are underway which is great it's really strange in Cork arriving at the station only to find that you have to to exit away from the City.

Is it too much effort to walk out and around the building?

The by-now obligatory glass box is horrible and the clock tower doesn't suit the rest of the Victorian era building at all.

Wonder how long it will be before the clock stops or they forget the time changeover, like most clocks installed on Irish buildings? I don't object to the notion of a second entrance, but it could have been done more in character with the rest of it, not stuck on like a carbuncle.

satanta99

I'd hardly call it a carbuncle. It's two glass boxes covering a lift and stairway.

Would you prefer an ornate Victorian folly instead?

opus

satanta99 wrote: »

237 apartments, a 136-bed hotel, 400,000 sq ft of offices and some retail are proposed.

Impressive so space for 5000 workers there & then for 3000 across the river on Albert Quay. That's some number of new jobs for the city!

GavRedKing

Good news for the city anyway, any idea on a time frame for this work to start and be completed, I'm assuming 5 - 8 years kind of time scale.

The hotel is important too, 136 beds is probably overkill but anytime theres events on Cork, its difficult to get a city centre hotel at a decent rate.

who_me

satanta99 wrote: »

http://www.hqcork.com - the website is gone live.

Planning has been applied for this week according to the article below:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/property/major-hq-development-for-cork-quayside-458473.html#

237 apartments, a 136-bed hotel, 400,000 sq ft of offices and some retail are proposed.

Another hotel? Great to see, though I hope they've kept an eye on recent developments - there are a lot of upcoming and potential hotel developments especially around that area: Metropole and The M, floating hotel on Horgan's Quay, hotel & hostel by the bus station, hotel on Beasley St. / Grand Parade, hotel on the Custom House quay. Not to mention the Ambassador and Montenotte having major renovations in recent years. Hope they're all sustainable!

Office space in the city centre is badly needed, great to see.

Not much of a fan of the design, but heh-ho. You can have any design you want, as long as it's a glass 'n' cladding cuboid. Or two cuboids stuck together. For me it's a shame that in (almost) all recent developments, the rooftops are a lazy afterthought. What is the most visible part of the building from a distance should be treated as an attractive feature. Instead it's simply the point where the walls stop, and dump some air-conditioning units on top of it.

whisky_galore

satanta99 wrote: »

I'd hardly call it a carbuncle. It's two glass boxes covering a lift and stairway.

Would you prefer an ornate Victorian folly instead?

It doesn't have to be 'ornate', just blend in with what's there already which isn't particularly 'ornate'.

In other news, yet more offices, hotels and as an afterthought (unaffordable) apartments.
Great.

CHealy

People will nit pick anything.

Its a great mixed use development in a forgotten part of town, hopefully there will be no major hurdles and we see construction start in 2018.

GavRedKing

whisky_galore wrote: »

It doesn't have to be 'ornate', just blend in with what's there already which isn't particularly 'ornate'.

In other news, yet more offices, hotels and as an afterthought (unaffordable) apartments.
Great.

Just on the apartments, I did laugh at the price of themcirca €1500 a month but I suppose thats the cost of city centre living.

If they price it too high it could go the way of the Elysian where occupancy, at one stage was meant to be about only 33%, I imagine that figure has climbed a bit but if it was over 50% at this stage I'd be shocked.

rebs23

GavRedKing wrote: »

Just on the apartments, I did laugh at the price of themcirca €1500 a month but I suppose thats the cost of city centre living.

If they price it too high it could go the way of the Elysian where occupancy, at one stage was meant to be about only 33%, I imagine that figure has climbed a bit but if it was over 50% at this stage I'd be shocked.

Occupancy is nearly 100% by all accounts in the Elysian. Might be a few left to rent but not many.

lisasimpson

Mixed use development in the heart of the city . The way developement should be and beside the train line perfect for commuting... a lot of existing office in cork ie airport business park and mahon are awkward if you are communting from charleville mallow, midleton etc you really have no option but drive. Along with navigation house albert quay there is an option other than car. Both bus and rail services should improve with the increase numbers working in town. I still think bus station should have moved over there part of the whole interconnectin of public transport
But all and all v happy with it good move for the city. But housing & apartments both social and private needs to be addressed for all the workers needed

cgcsb

whisky_galore wrote: »

Is it too much effort to walk out and around the building?

Yes. Public transport in the 21st century has to be SUPER convenient in order to compete with the car

DylanGLC

Why choose to be pessimistic when you can be optimistic? This sounds amazing! It also doesn't sound like a plan rushed together by a bunch of people around a table one night. It sounds like a serious investment with a lot of thought put into it and serious dedication to the project. The buildings aren't works of art but they look good. The Capitol and Navigation Square look great, as does One Albert Quay although more simplistic. Not everything is going to be amazing. All in all, very exciting times

Also, the article in the Irish Examiner says three to five years delivery

thejuggler

thejuggler wrote: »

Pie in the sky. Irish rail have been talking about a quayside entrance to Kent station for 20 years. Is work actually in progress for this?
The rest is just fantasy. 7 years to get planning - the next recession will be underway by then.

Over a year later the station entrance is still incomplete. Don't put CIE/Irish Rail in charge of the rest of the project

DylanGLC

My favourite render from the website, the residential buildings.



Also, it says if planning permission is successful (the planners would have to be crazy to reject any of this, even the heights which are all modest) construction should begin in early 2018 with the aim to finish it in three to five years (in phases for at least the offices)

flo8s967qjh0nd

DylanGLC wrote: »

My favourite render from the website, the residential buildings.



Also, it says if planning permission is successful (the planners would have to be crazy to reject any of this, even the heights which are all modest) construction should begin in early 2018 with the aim to finish it in three to five years (in phases for at least the offices)

That view from Merchant's Quay makes it look monstorous. Not a fan of the bulky design at all. Any development here is going to affect the views of the northern ridge but this all seems to build a wall across the view.

Flesh Gorden

Took me a little while to figure out what site they were referencing.

I know that car park was popular with a lot of workers heading in from the east, hopefully they get their thumb out at some stage
and look into a Park and Ride north of the river, even closer to Dunkettle for commuters and match goers.

With this new site and the potential sky scraper on the bonded warehouse site:
http://bit.ly/2xSFEPh

The still possible Water Street Bridge: http://bit.ly/2gOpD8U

Along with the recent One Albert Quay development and the new Navigation Square:



The skyline in that area has changed massively in the past 5 years and could be unrecognisable in another 10.

I can still remember back in the early 90's when the new Jury's looked 'fancy' compared to what was there :pac:

flaneur

Cork City Centre really transformed very rapidly since the mid 2000s. I think the European City of Culture designation roughly marked the turning point.

Cork has a really nice setting and a huge amount of potential. It's a very pleasant city to actually live in. I'm just hoping that it gets the densities and scale to really take off.

I agree though the transformation of the city centre has been quite remarkable.

namloc1980

How many announcements/planning apps has there been about development of the rail yard at Kent in the last 2 or 3 decades? Will believe when I see it. Also max building heights of 7-9 storeys is a missed opportunity for such a central site.

pwurple

It's badly needed. Agreed on the hideousness of it. The Capital is a beautiful building, there are some architects out there who has some aesthetic sense.

Working or living in a glass box is very unpleasant in my experience. You can't put storage on the walls, you've got to use ugly blinds to get some shade, and it is blinding in the mornings and non-cosy in the evenings.

I can almost guarantee the council will either take a few floors off that, or wipe the residential altogether.


Also, is it just me, but isn't the train station in most cities the dodgiest part of town?

mire

namloc1980 wrote: »

How many announcements/planning apps has there been about development of the rail yard at Kent in the last 2 or 3 decades? Will believe when I see it. Also max building heights of 7-9 storeys is a missed opportunity for such a central site.

about three. not that many really.

this is the only one i'd consider to be real. the last one by manor park homes was half baked, incomplete and was not a serious planning application. imo, this one is likely to be developed.

CHealy

mire wrote: »

about three. not that many really.

this is the only one i'd consider to be real. the last one by manor park homes was half baked, incomplete and was not a serious planning application. imo, this one is likely to be developed.

Agree with this. I know it might sound a bit far fetched but I guarantee a party who is not fully committed wouldn't go to the trouble of paying for detailed plans, a website, and new branded hoarding on the actual site if they werent serious. I just wish we had a high rise on the waterfront.

soundsham

GavRedKing wrote: »

Just on the apartments, I did laugh at the price of themcirca €1500 a month but I suppose thats the cost of city centre living.

If they price it too high it could go the way of the Elysian where occupancy, at one stage was meant to be about only 33%, I imagine that figure has climbed a bit but if it was over 50% at this stage I'd be shocked.

€1500 per month for apartments between Patrick street and the college has been exceeded in the newer developments since last year
Also up around Dennehy Cross

GavRedKing

soundsham wrote: »

€1500 per month for apartments between Patrick street and the college has been exceeded in the newer developments since last year
Also up around Dennehy Cross

I asked 2 mates living in the tower in the Elysian and theyve informed me theyre paying €1600 a month.

CHealy

GavRedKing wrote: »

I asked 2 mates living in the tower in the Elysian and theyve informed me theyre paying €1600 a month.

My newly acquired mortgage is less than half of that, sweet jesus how are people affording that. What are they CEO's?

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

GavRedKing

CHealy wrote: »

My newly acquired mortgage is less than half of that, sweet jesus how are people affording that. What are they CEO's?

No, not at all, I think theyre both on circa 30-35k in their jobs.

Few other mates have said the same, their mortgages are a half or 1/3 cheaper.

I think the most difficult thing paying that kind of rent would be saving for your own future.

soundsham

GavRedKing wrote: »

No, not at all, I think theyre both on circa 30-35k in their jobs.

Few other mates have said the same, their mortgages are a half or 1/3 cheaper.

I think the most difficult thing paying that kind of rent would be saving for your own future.

€1600 rents are common for 2016 in quite a few spots and many have waiting lists

Keep adding 4% per annum and see where you are when Horgans quay is developed

I know it's off the point but people sleeping in cars to ensure that they get a house in a new development is happening in Cork ...
Sad days ahead

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

GavRedKing

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Thats one of the penthouses that isnt even in the tower either. :pac:

Although I think they were bought back when it first opened for a pretty penny.

who_me

CHealy wrote: »

My newly acquired mortgage is less than half of that, sweet jesus how are people affording that. What are they CEO's?

I've heard a lot of people are 'doubling up' - two couples moving into two-bedroom apartments so the rent is split 4 ways.

DylanGLC

Another picture I like from the website

namloc1980

As it's CIE, it's a shame it doesn't have a more integrated transport element to include the bus station. I presume it's being designed to incorporate a future rapid transit corridor, or is that too much to expect.

flaneur

I have to say I really don't like design. It's a matter of personal taste but it looks very blocky and unadventurous and definitely anything but statement making.

It reminds me of the old tax office that's being taken down at Crosses Green.

pwurple

GavRedKing wrote: »

Thats one of the penthouses that isnt even in the tower either. :pac:

Although I think they were bought back when it first opened for a pretty penny.

The ones not in the tower have outdoor gardens / patios (one each side, internal to the waterfall and external to the street) and 2 or three floors, plus parking reserved, they go for way more than the tower with zero outside space.

snotboogie

CHealy wrote: »

GavRedKing wrote: »

I asked 2 mates living in the tower in the Elysian and theyve informed me theyre paying €1600 a month.

My newly acquired mortgage is less than half of that, sweet jesus how are people affording that. What are they CEO's?

€800 each a month is absolutely standard for accommodation in a decent location.I know people on entry level salaries paying €850 for a bedroom in a rundown house in Ranelagh.

whisky_galore

flaneur wrote: »

Cork City Centre really transformed very rapidly since the mid 2000s. I think the European City of Culture designation roughly marked the turning point.

Cork has a really nice setting and a huge amount of potential. It's a very pleasant city to actually live in. I'm just hoping that it gets the densities and scale to really take off.

I agree though the transformation of the city centre has been quite remarkable.

Counted 10 empty units on Pana alone the last night, that shouldn't be the case if we're back in a so-called boom. The upper floors on many places appear to be dusty storage areas/dumping grounds. If this was Continental Europe there would be living spaces up there, but this being Ireland.... :rolleyes:

We're accommodating all these high flyers with money to burn and I see (rather ugly) student apartments are going up shortly. Where are all the lower wage earners; the waiting staff, the bartenders, the cooks, the baristas, the cleaners etc etc to service all the hotels, restaurants and the Benny McCabes who pay min wage, the junior office workers, junior Civil service and hospital staff working their way up, artists, the musicians that play live music full time...where are all of those people supposed to live? By by 'live', live affordably? With their mammies and daddies, house share in some flea pit and eat tins of beans? Or pack them into 40' containers with bunk beds?

opus

Looks impressive when all the new developments are listed together.

A City Rising is a Beautiful Thing.

GavRedKing

We can probably scrap the Event Centre from the list at this stage.

whisky_galore

GavRedKing wrote: »

We can probably scrap the Event Centre from the list at this stage.

Embarrassingly prominent in their back-slapping 'Development Trail' map.

mire

GavRedKing wrote: »

We can probably scrap the Event Centre from the list at this stage.

not so sure about that tbh.