Left behind Sh1t on street, took photo with car reg

digzy

Just looking for some advice.
Was upstairs at home (I live in a town just off the Main Street)and saw a child of about 5 squatting down across the road. Was wondering what he was at, then saw what I presume was his mother wipe his bum. I took out the phone and pictured the carry on from this point!
As if this wasn't bad enough she leaves the nappy and the sh1t on the street and drives off....

I got the car reg in the pic and rang the cops. I know it's not exactly armed robbery on the crime spectrum but it's still disgusting and completely unnecessary.They were travellers as one can imagine. Anyway the Garda said I'd have to come up, make a statement etc.......

Anyway, was just wondering can this be done anonymously? I really don't want to be drawing the local travellers on me and it's not a big deal. Just would hate to see nothing happen when I've about 6 photos.

MarkAnthony

By travelers I assume you mean they were traveling. I'd be more worried about taking picture of naked children to be honest.

If you're willing to follow through* make a complaint to your local litter warden.

*Pun sort of intended.

digzy

MarkAnthony wrote: »

By travelers I assume you mean they were traveling. I'd be more worried about taking picture of naked children to be honest.

If you're willing to follow through* make a complaint to your local litter warden.

*Pun sort of intended.

No they were travellers of the 'ethnic minority' type.
And please don't give it the 'how do you know they were'

MarkAnthony

digzy wrote: »

No they were travellers of the 'ethnic minority' type.
And please don't give it the 'how do you know they were'

Well I'm sure you're the expert, I'm just curious as to why I'd be imagining they're travelers on the basis of your post.

Steve

There needs to be a chain of evidence to secure a conviction - it would be hard to remain anonymous in this case.

Sad but unfortunately true.

Litter wardens may have a different burden of proof so I would send on the pics and hopefully they can do something.

MarkAnthony

Steve wrote: »

There needs to be a chain of evidence to secure a conviction - it would be hard to remain anonymous in this case.

Sad but unfortunately true.

Litter wardens may have a different burden of proof so I would send on the pics and hopefully they can do something.

So the OP should go an secure the evidence asap for DNA testing?

digzy

Steve wrote: »

There needs to be a chain of evidence to secure a conviction - it would be hard to remain anonymous in this case.

Sad but unfortunately true.

Litter wardens may have a different burden of proof so I would send on the pics and hopefully they can do something.

That's the point. I've better things to do than be making statements, a potential court appearance (the Garda mentioned child services) and worse of all have hassle from the travellers.

It's one of those annoying things, like lads who fly tip and pollute the countryside. If the little lad had to poo fair enough, it's not the child's fault but it's the pig who left it there. Dog owners can get fined -rightly so- for leaving their dog sh1t on the street. This woman shouldn't get away with it either. The evidence is clear.

And despite one poster insinuating I'm a paedophile, the main reason I pulled out the phone was to get the car reg.

MarkAnthony

How is the evidence clear? Evidence needs to be tested. Why take to social media moaning about it if you're not willing to do anything about it?

drunkmonkey

I didn't think it was illegal to have a crap in the street just not the done thing also remember hearing there was a law that if you had to go and there was a Garda around he was obliged to give you his hat.

OP I'd delete any pictures of a child in a compromised position and I woudn't be taking a travellers mother to court. Delete and move on.

digzy

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I didn't think it was illegal to have a crap in the street just not the done thing also remember hearing there was a law that if you had to go and there was a Garda around he was obliged to give you his hat.

OP I'd delete any pictures of a child in a compromised position and I woudn't be taking a travellers mother to court. Delete and move on.

Look, just to be clear there's no chance of it going that far in terms of court. I was hoping the litter warden would fine 'em given the car reg is quite clear on the photos.

MarkAnthony

digzy wrote: »

Look, just to be clear there's no chance of it going that far in terms of court. I was hoping the litter warden would fine 'em given the car reg is quite clear on the photos.

The litter warden probably thinks the same thing as you do in regards to travelers. Stereotypes not always being a negative thing for people it seems.

Arcade_Tryer

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I didn't think it was illegal to have a crap in the street just not the done thing also remember hearing there was a law that if you had to go and there was a Garda around he was obliged to give you his hat.

OP I'd delete any pictures of a child in a compromised position and I woudn't be taking a travellers mother to court. Delete and move on.

People have been arrested for pissing on the street. And even off the street in a more private (though still public) place.

Gatling

A child of 5 wearing a nappy ,takes crap in the street and mother leaves behind the nappy ,
Odd woman .
This is one of these moments forget and carry on don't think anyone would want to be given a compromising photo of a child even if you believe it's evidence for the litter warden

drunkmonkey

digzy wrote: »

Look, just to be clear there's no chance of it going that far in terms of court. I was hoping the litter warden would fine 'em given the car reg is quite clear on the photos.

Report it to the local authority and let them take it from there. I'd try and keep your name away from it.

Steve

digzy wrote: »

Look, just to be clear there's no chance of it going that far in terms of court. I was hoping the litter warden would fine 'em given the car reg is quite clear on the photos.

Let us know how you get on with that, hope the scummy shytbag gets prosecuted.

brian_t

digzy wrote: »

Anyway, was just wondering can this be done anonymously? I really don't want to be drawing the local travellers on me and it's not a big deal. Just would hate to see nothing happen when I've about 6 photos.

The only evidence are the photos that you took. You need to be prepared to go to court and verify to a judge that you took the photos and they are a true depiction of what happened.

Unless you are prepared to stand up in court and say that you took the photos I doubt the litter warden will waste the courts time on this.

MarkAnthony

brian_t wrote: »

The only evidence are the photos that you took. You need to be prepared to go to court and verify to a judge that you took the photos and they are a true depiction of what happened.

Unless you are prepared to stand up in court and say that you took the photos I doubt the litter warden will waste the courts time on this.

I don't think they need too tbh - can't they just issue fines? I vaguely remember some boxes at the bottle bank thread.

brian_t

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I don't think they need too tbh - can't they just issue fines? I vaguely remember some boxes at the bottle bank thread.

One can probably assume that a fine will be ignored in this case.

Esel

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I didn't think it was illegal to have a crap in the street...

Neither did I. Maybe one of the professionals here could clarify?

topmanamillion

Unfortunately, you're highly unlikely to get anywhere with this.
I'd just chalk it down as a story to tell down the pub and move on.

mewe

Yeah I thought I heard before that it's illegal to take a piss on the street but not a crap apparently! Still doesn't make it any less disgusting. Suppose the OP's gripe is the lack of any attempt to clear up the mess.

4ensic15

digzy wrote: »

Just looking for some advice.
Was upstairs at home (I live in a town just off the Main Street)and saw a child of about 5 squatting down across the road. Was wondering what he was at, then saw what I presume was his mother wipe his bum. I took out the phone and pictured the carry on from this point!
As if this wasn't bad enough she leaves the nappy and the sh1t on the street and drives off....

I got the car reg in the pic and rang the cops. I know it's not exactly armed robbery on the crime spectrum but it's still disgusting and completely unnecessary.They were travellers as one can imagine. Anyway the Garda said I'd have to come up, make a statement etc.......

Anyway, was just wondering can this be done anonymously? I really don't want to be drawing the local travellers on me and it's not a big deal. Just would hate to see nothing happen when I've about 6 photos.

If there was to be a prosecution, you would have to give oral evidence. the guards could find the woman and see if she would confess. If she denies it, that would be the end of it as far as the guards are concerned. . You statement to the guards is hearsay and inadmissible in evidence. If there was a hearing you would have to be cross examined on your statement.

plodder

I'm always a bit mystified by questions like this, where someone might be convicted of an offence on the basis of evidence given anonymously. Think if someone made a complaint about you, which was mistaken (say the guards picked up the wrong person) you would certainly want to question them on it. Photos on their own don't prove anything.

Kevin3

digzy wrote: »

This woman shouldn't get away with it either. The evidence is clear.

digzy wrote: »

I've better things to do than be making statements, a potential court appearance

Welcome to Ireland, where everyone complains that something should be done about something that they aren't willing to do anything about.

two wheels good

A call from the litter warden to the parent might make her think twice the next time - even if no legal procedure follows.
Please do report it to the litter warden. (I'd be interested to know how diligently the warden/council responds to the complaint)

drunkmonkey

two wheels good wrote: »

A call from the litter warden to the parent might make her think twice the next time - even if no legal procedure follows.
Please do report it to the litter warden. (I'd be interested to know how diligently the warden/council responds to the complaint)

No litter warden is going to take on travellers, our local parking man got hospitalised for giving one a parking ticket. Community was happy, parking man not so much.

Stealthfins

Don't be a hero,taking photos of that kind of thing is completely weird.
It could backfire on you.
**** happens....

bobbyss

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I didn't think it was illegal to have a crap in the street just not the done thing also remember hearing there was a law that if you had to go and there was a Garda around he was obliged to give you his hat.

OP I'd delete any pictures of a child in a compromised position and I woudn't be taking a travellers mother to court. Delete and move on.

Why not?

Duvetdays

two wheels good wrote: »

A call from the litter warden to the parent might make her think twice the next time - even if no legal procedure follows.
Please do report it to the litter warden. (I'd be interested to know how diligently the warden/council responds to the complaint)

The litter warden won't do a thing, it's a mixture of being afraid and knowing nothing will get done about it. A litter warden that lives by me found an illegal traveller dump site last year. They terrorised & threatened the man including calling to his house, it ended with somebody putting a pipe bomb under his car which thankfully was noticed and bomb disposal removed it.

NUTLEY BOY

De minimis non curat lex.

2RockMountain

digzy wrote: »

That's the point. I've better things to do than be making statements, a potential court appearance (the Garda mentioned child services) and worse of all have hassle from the travellers.

Would you be happy if you got convicted of littering cigarette butts (for example) based on anonymous report that couldn't be tested or challenged in court?

steamsey

OP - you most certainly can secure a conviction with photos and a brief court appearance. I'll PM you the details. The posts here saying that the litter warden will do nothing are from the very people who would never contact the litter warden and therefore, don't know what they're talking about.

Bandana boy

Why would the person who took the photo be required to testify , surely a recording of a crime speaks for itself.

plodder

Bandana boy wrote: »

Why would the person who took the photo be required to testify , surely a recording of a crime speaks for itself.

I think you would have to testify to where and when the photos were taken for a start, and you might have to identify the accused (is the same person) etc. Don't really see why it's such a big deal tbh.

steamsey

First hand recent experience. You contact litter warden with details / photos. A court date is arranged. You show up, verify photos, tell story to judge. If no convincing contradicting evidence from accused, conviction and fine (up to €3,000) is given. In my case, the fine on the accused was €1,500. Accused did not show up in court. You are in and out of court in 10 minutes. Litter warden was excellent and I would encourage anyone who sees dumping happening to take detailed photos and contact litter warden, not Gardai. If you can get photos of reg plates that's the key to getting a conviction.

Emme

digzy wrote: »

Just looking for some advice.
Was upstairs at home (I live in a town just off the Main Street)and saw a child of about 5 squatting down across the road. Was wondering what he was at, then saw what I presume was his mother wipe his bum. I took out the phone and pictured the carry on from this point!
As if this wasn't bad enough she leaves the nappy and the sh1t on the street and drives off....

I got the car reg in the pic and rang the cops. I know it's not exactly armed robbery on the crime spectrum but it's still disgusting and completely unnecessary.They were travellers as one can imagine. Anyway the Garda said I'd have to come up, make a statement etc.......

Anyway, was just wondering can this be done anonymously? I really don't want to be drawing the local travellers on me and it's not a big deal. Just would hate to see nothing happen when I've about 6 photos.

OP regardless of your civic vigilance you took an unsolicited photograph of a child. It doesn't matter what the child was doing but if they was squatting they were probably partially unclothed. A defence lawyer who was clever enough could turn this case against you using the fact that you took an unsolicited photograph of a child.

bobbyss

Emme wrote: »

OP regardless of your civic vigilance you took an unsolicited photograph of a child. It doesn't matter what the child was doing but if they was squatting they were probably partially unclothed. A defence lawyer who was clever enough could turn this case against you using the fact that you took an unsolicited photograph of a child.

I thought you were allowed to take a photo of something that is in a public place. Have you ever taken a photo, while a tourist for example, to later to discover that there are strangers in your photo including children? Is that against the law?

What specific law has been broken by the OP?

Mrs OBumble

bobbyss wrote: »

Why not?

What country do you live in?

CosmicSmash

steamsey wrote: »

First hand recent experience. You contact litter warden with details / photos. A court date is arranged. You show up, verify photos, tell story to judge. If no convincing contradicting evidence from accused, conviction and fine (up to €3,000) is given. In my case, the fine on the accused was €1,500. Accused did not show up in court. You are in and out of court in 10 minutes. Litter warden was excellent and I would encourage anyone who sees dumping happening to take detailed photos and contact litter warden, not Gardai. If you can get photos of reg plates that's the key to getting a conviction.

Was your name and address given in court when you went forward as a witness?

bobbyss

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What country do you live in?

And the answer to the question is... ?

keavebm

It's a ****ty nappy big deal. If it was someone fly tipping then maybe but a nappy for God sake. If it bothers you that much put it into a bin. Ridiculous

bobbyss

keavebm wrote: »

It's a ****ty nappy big deal. If it was someone fly tipping then maybe but a nappy for God sake. If it bothers you that much put it into a bin. Ridiculous

Oh dear.

the_syco

digzy wrote: »

I got the car reg in the pic and rang the cops. I know it's not exactly armed robbery on the crime spectrum but it's still disgusting and completely unnecessary.They were travellers as one can imagine. Anyway the Garda said I'd have to come up, make a statement etc.......

If they see the video, they'll be able to guess where it was taken from, and, well, there goes your car, front of house, etc.

Pointless going after said people, as they're fairly untouchable by the State, and will only cause you grief in the long run.

Pat Mustard

Mod:

Posters might move back on topic with legal discussion, please.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

bobbyss

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

So what if it is not even registered to her?

What is your point?

Emme

bobbyss wrote: »

I thought you were allowed to take a photo of something that is in a public place. Have you ever taken a photo, while a tourist for example, to later to discover that there are strangers in your photo including children? Is that against the law?

What specific law has been broken by the OP?

I am not a lawyer so I do not have full knowledge of that law. However the OP was in a private place (upstairs in his home) when he took the photo of the child. The child was in a public place. If I was the mother of the child and I got a fine based on a photograph taken of my child the first thing I would do is ask "what pervert took a picture of my child with his/her nappy down?" I think most mothers would be very concerned at a stranger photographing their child in a vulnerable and half-dressed state regardless of whether they were littering or not. If the OP filmed the event he would be in for an even bigger roasting.

2RockMountain

Emme wrote: »

I am not a lawyer so I do not have full knowledge of that law. However the OP was in a private place (upstairs in his home) when he took the photo of the child. The child was in a public place. If I was the mother of the child and I got a fine based on a photograph taken of my child the first thing I would do is ask "what pervert took a picture of my child with his/her nappy down?" I think most mothers would be very concerned at a stranger photographing their child in a vulnerable and half-dressed state regardless of whether they were littering or not. If the OP filmed the event he would be in for an even bigger roasting.

In fact, if the photo shows the child undressed, possession of the photo itself could be a criminal offence.

bobbyss

Emme wrote: »

I am not a lawyer so I do not have full knowledge of that law. However the OP was in a private place (upstairs in his home) when he took the photo of the child. The child was in a public place. If I was the mother of the child and I got a fine based on a photograph taken of my child the first thing I would do is ask "what pervert took a picture of my child with his/her nappy down?" I think most mothers would be very concerned at a stranger photographing their child in a vulnerable and half-dressed state regardless of whether they were littering or not. If the OP filmed the event he would be in for an even bigger roasting.

I am not a lawyer either so I don't know the answer.

But the people were in a public place and as far as I know you are entitled to take a photo of anything and anybody (including children) that's in a public place.

If you were a tourist and took dozens of photos of Trafalgar Square on a hot summer's day, I am sure you would find many things going on that those photographed would not like to be included. You might even find a parent helping a child to relieve himself/herself behind a wall or somesuch.

But in this case I think the OP said (s)he was trying to get the reg of the car not the child per se. In any event what the OP was doing was trying to capture an example of disgusting behaviour and probably illegal behaviour and I think any reasonable person would see it that way too.

I don't think the mother in this case would take the attitude you described as her action would be seen by reasonable people as more reprehensible than her concern for her child's privacy, which after all she compromised in the first place.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Emme

bobbyss wrote: »

I don't think the mother in this case would take the attitude you described as her action would be seen by reasonable people as more reprehensible than her concern for her child's privacy, which after all she compromised in the first place.

Mothers are not reasonable when it comes to the welfare of their children, mothers of all species will fight for their children. How would expect a mother to feel if a stranger was taking a picture of their naked bum on purpose? It doesn't matter if the mother and child were committing a littering offence, the OP took a picture of a half-naked child in a vulnerable position.