Starting a job in Ireland as a Contractor | 85 K / year | Working in Tech | Relocatin

not_a_sheep

Hello there,

I am not sure this is the correct board to post this, but it seemed the most appropriate. I have received an offer to work in Dublin as a contractor, with a salary of 85.000 / year. I would be relocating as I currently live in another EU country.

I figure it's important to mention I am relatively young (< 25). This might affect the cost of Insurence.

In my current country, I have already figured out most of the stuff that one needs to figure out in his own country: what banks to use, what internet service provider to avoid, what telephone companies to choose, how healthcare works and so on. Moving to another country means re-learning everything. I guess what I would like to get from this thread is advice on how to "not get scammed" and what to avoid.

I believe I would be living in Dublin 15. I already figured that I will need an "Umbrella Company" to manage my taxes - now I would like to know the rest. In particular, I would start with the most important things:

- Healthcare. In my country, there is universal healthcare. From what I understood this also applies in Ireland but only if you are "dirt poor". Hence, what private facility is "the best" in providing health insurance?

- Pension. When i was an employee my employer took care of my pension by deducting it from my monthly pay. Since I will be a contractor, I guess I need to take care of this myself. With whom should I go here?

Apart from these two, what are your recommendations for Internet Service Providers, Telephone companies, supermarkets, etc?

Any help you can provide me in "surviving" the move is highly appreciated.

Thanks.

Cuddlesworth

not_a_sheep wrote: »

I believe I would be living in Dublin 17.

Some really bad areas in there.

not_a_sheep wrote: »

- Healthcare. In my country, there is universal healthcare. From what I understood this also applies in Ireland but only if you are "dirt poor". Hence, what private facility is "the best" in providing health insurance?

You pay a fee to visit a hospital. If your in danger, you will go straight to surgery. If its not critical, you get put on a list. I think you need to get a European Health Insurance Card.

not_a_sheep wrote: »

- Pension. When i was an employee my employer took care of my pension by deducting it from my monthly pay. Since I will be a contractor, I guess I need to take care of this myself. With whom should I go here?

Your self employed. You need to sort your own pension and taxes out. I'd recommend initially talking to a accountant.

not_a_sheep wrote: »

Apart from these two, what are your recommendations for Internet Service Providers, Telephone companies, supermarkets, etc?

Most of Dublin can get Vodofone coaxial, its one of the best services. There are a few locations with FTTH but most other areas are flavors of DSL, up to 100mb VDSL(rare enough).

Sueprmarkets, ALDI/LIDL are cheap. The rest slightly more expensive. Cost of living in general is high in Dublin.

fits

This company offer health insurance far superior to anything available to Irish people. It will be expensive, but everything is covered. You may not need it at your age, but I had it while working in another European country and used it well.

https://www.cignahealthbenefits.com/en

not_a_sheep

Cuddlesworth my mistake, it's Dublin 15 not 17. Thanks for the advice.

@Fits I'll have a look, thanks.

tookotook

That's exceptional money, what industry is it? I'm 26, work as a software engineer and my salary is less than half that money.
What technologies will you be working with? Cheers

Mrs OBumble

Ahh, If you are a contractor, then you will have either a daily rate or an hourly one. Not an annual salary.


Where are you a citizen of?

OfflerCrocGod

It's not particularly exceptional for a contractor, daily rates for front end work seems to be €400 - €450 from what I gather.

mitresize5

you'll get good private health insurance for between 1200 and 1500 a year.

As your a foreign national get an accountant as soon as you arrive - first year will probably cost you 2->3000 to get set up and fee's. You should be able to do your own books for the following years.

Dublin is very expensive, rents are high, socializing is expensive and nothing is cheap so while your on a good rate you may not save as much as you have anticipated.

not_a_sheep

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ahh, If you are a contractor, then you will have either a daily rate or an hourly one. Not an annual salary.


Where are you a citizen of?

I would prefer not to say. Working in tech I don't doubt members of my company lurk around here.

mitresize5 wrote: »

you'll get good private health insurance for between 1200 and 1500 a year.

As your a foreign national get an accountant as soon as you arrive - first year will probably cost you 2->3000 to get set up and fee's. You should be able to do your own books for the following years.

Dublin is very expensive, rents are high, socializing is expensive and nothing is cheap so while your on a good rate you may not save as much as you have anticipated.

I plan on using a company like Fenero to manage my taxes. Is this ok?

tookotook wrote: »

That's exceptional money, what industry is it? I'm 26, work as a software engineer and my salary is less than half that money.
What technologies will you be working with? Cheers

I can only say it's not anything related to programming.

yqtwqxqm

You are in the income bracket where our current minister for finance is targeting for crucifixion.
You should wait and see what happens or you could be paying a hell of a lot more tax than you think.

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/michael-noonan-moves-to-hike-income-tax-for-270000-workers-34897948.html

Stheno

Yes the likes of Fenero are fine to use.

You should get familiar with our taxation system if you are going to have a limited company you have two choices, to be a PAYE worker or a director. As a paye worker you will pay another 10% in social insurance, as a director your tax credits will be half what they are as a PAYE worker, and you will not qualify for any social welfare benefits should you need them.

Are you an EU citizen?

EagererBeaver

yqtwqxqm wrote: »

You are in the income bracket where our current minister for finance is targeting for crucifixion.
You should wait and see what happens or you could be paying a hell of a lot more tax than you think.

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/michael-noonan-moves-to-hike-income-tax-for-270000-workers-34897948.html

Entirely dependent on how he sets up for business - the 85k is an approximation of turnover, not a salary.

OP, as stated, you need to get talking to an accountant/tax adviser asap. However, lots of contractors use personal service companies to which they then invoice regularly. This can be advantageous in Ireland as corporation tax (on company profits) is 12.5%.

not_a_sheep

Stheno wrote: »

Yes the likes of Fenero are fine to use.

You should get familiar with our taxation system if you are going to have a limited company you have two choices, to be a PAYE worker or a director. As a paye worker you will pay another 10% in social insurance, as a director your tax credits will be half what they are as a PAYE worker, and you will not qualify for any social welfare benefits should you need them.

Are you an EU citizen?

Hi,

Yes, I am an EU citizen. I am planning on getting the "Director" option of Fenero. As long as I get some private insurance I will still not be thrown on the streets in case of illness, right? I am not sure which one to choose currently, as there are many options in various pay ranges.

EDIT: I just realized "social welfare" means I don't get money in case I can't find work, my bad. Is there an alternative to the state's social welfare - such as private welfare? E.g the same as public vs private healthcare.

Stheno

not_a_sheep wrote: »

Hi,

Yes, I am an EU citizen. I am planning on getting the "Director" option of Fenero. As long as I get some private insurance I will still not be thrown on the streets in case of illness, right? I am not sure which one to choose currently, as there are many options in various pay ranges.

Regardless of insurance you will get treatment for illness in the public system, you just pay the public system charges, and they can be claimed back on insurance at a later date.

You do need to get an EHIC card as an EU citizen.

Graham

How long are you planning to stay in Ireland for? Some of the things you're talking about wouldn't really be worth starting if it's a temporary thing (pension).

Health insurance there are 2 main providers VHI / Laya, they are much of a muchness. They both have expensive to more expensive options which give you fancier hospitals and private rooms and would generally be a wast of money for a healthy young person. Talk to your umbrella company, they may have a group-deal you can avail of.

not_a_sheep

Stheno wrote: »

not_a_sheep wrote: »

Hi,

Yes, I am an EU citizen. I am planning on getting the "Director" option of Fenero. As long as I get some private insurance I will still not be thrown on the streets in case of illness, right? I am not sure which one to choose currently, as there are many options in various pay ranges.

Regardless of insurance you will get treatment for illness in the public system, you just pay the public system charges, and they can be claimed back on insurance at a later date.

You do need to get an EHIC card as an EU citizen.

I already have the EHIC card released by my country. I am worried when you say "you pay the public system charges". What if I need an emergency surgery that costs lots of $$$? In my country they wouldn't let you die on the street even without any document. How would this work for me exactly, as I'll be self-employed? If I have the EHIC card I still need private insurance, right?

Graham wrote: »

How long are you planning to stay in Ireland for? Some of the things you're talking about wouldn't really be worth starting if it's a temporary thing (pension).

Health insurance there are 2 main providers VHI / Laya, they are much of a muchness. They both have expensive to more expensive options which give you fancier hospitals and private rooms and would generally be a wast of money for a healthy young person. Talk to your umbrella company, they may have a group-deal you can avail of.

I generally plan to live here for at least 5 years. Which option do you think is the "minimum" to not let me die in the waiting room?

Thanks.

Stheno

not_a_sheep wrote: »

I already have the EHIC card released by my country. I am worried when you say "you pay the public system charges". What if I need an emergency surgery that costs lots of $$$? In my country they wouldn't let you die on the street even without any document. How would this work for me exactly, as I'll be self-employed? If I have the EHIC card I still need private insurance, right?



I generally plan to live here for at least 5 years. Which option do you think is the "minimum" to not let me die in the waiting room?

Thanks.

Seriously stop being so melodramatic, the charge for public hospitals is 75 euro each day you are in with a maximum of 750 euro per year.

To visit the emergency room is around 100 euro.

If you need surgery you will either get it immediately if it's a critical case, or you will go on a waiting list if it's not critical.

not_a_sheep

Stheno wrote: »

not_a_sheep wrote: »

I already have the EHIC card released by my country. I am worried when you say "you pay the public system charges". What if I need an emergency surgery that costs lots of $$? In my country they wouldn't let you die on the street even without any document. How would this work for me exactly, as I'll be self-employed? If I have the EHIC card I still need private insurance, right?



I generally plan to live here for at least 5 years. Which option do you think is the "minimum" to not let me die in the waiting room?

Thanks.

Seriously stop being so melodramatic, the charge for public hospitals is 75 euro each day you are in with a maximum of 750 euro per year.

To visit the emergency room is around 100 euro.

If you need surgery you will either get it immediately if it's a critical case, or you will go on a waiting list if it's not critical.

I don't mean to offend. I guess I keep remembering some horror documentaries about the health system in the US. This is probably not the same in Ireland, apologies.

Graham

not_a_sheep wrote: »

I generally plan to live here for at least 5 years. Which option do you think is the "minimum" to not let me die in the waiting room?

Thanks.

I'm not sure self-induced stress is an immediately life-threatening condition. Relax.

Take out an entry level health insurance package with any of the big providers if you're worried. Job done.

Stheno

not_a_sheep wrote: »

I don't mean to offend. I guess I keep remembering some horror documentaries about the health system in the US. This is probably not the same in Ireland, apologies.

The Irish health system is completely different to the US! It's as I've explained above.

BreadnBuddha

not_a_sheep wrote: »

I don't mean to offend. I guess I keep remembering some horror documentaries about the health system in the US. This is probably not the same in Ireland, apologies.

No, it's not the same as the US. Little is. You'd make it a lot easier for people to help you compare if you simply gave a 'home' EU member state to use for reference.

not_a_sheep

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

not_a_sheep wrote: »

I don't mean to offend. I guess I keep remembering some horror documentaries about the health system in the US. This is probably not the same in Ireland, apologies.

No, it's not the same as the US. Little is. You'd make it a lot easier for people to help you compare if you simply gave a 'home' EU member state to use for reference.

You can take the Italian healthcare system as a point of reference if this helps.

Thanks a lot!

Stheno

not_a_sheep wrote: »

You can take the Italian healthcare system as a point of reference if this helps.

Thanks a lot!

Here you will pay to visit your family doctor (50 euro a visit on average)
If you need to go to the emergency room it's about 100 euro.

If you need surgery it will be scheduled depending on how critical it is on the public system, or you can use your insurance to get treated privately.

If you are in the public hospital it's a maximum of 750 euro per year or 75 per day for a maximum of ten days.

not_a_sheep

Stheno wrote: »

not_a_sheep wrote: »

You can take the Italian healthcare system as a point of reference if this helps.

Thanks a lot!

Here you will pay to visit your family doctor (50 euro a visit on average)
If you need to go to the emergency room it's about 100 euro.

If you need surgery it will be scheduled depending on how critical it is on the public system, or you can use your insurance to get treated privately.

If you are in the public hospital it's a maximum of 750 euro per year or 75 per day for a maximum of ten days.

Thanks a lot.

What about everything else? E.g ISPs, Mobile Phone Companies, Banks, etc?. Is there any agreement on who to generally avoid?

Currently I have a bank that operates mainly online. It basically costs me 0 to do anything if I deposit my salary on that account. In terms of cellular plans, I have 400 minutes / 400 sms / 4 gb a month, 100/100/1 g a week for under 10 .

I won't talk about ISPs are they all suck unless you are in big cities. I don't care paying 50/100 euros a month if I have at least 100 mb/s download.

Thanks again!

Graham

not_a_sheep wrote: »

Is there any agreement on who to generally avoid?

All of them.

In reality there's only 3 or 4 large providers in each of the categories you mention and they are all much of a muchness.

Vodafone/Three/Meteor (mobile networks)
AIB/Bank of Ireland/Permanent TSB/KBC (Banks)

Mrs OBumble

Stheno wrote: »

Here you will pay to visit your family doctor (50 euro a visit on average)
If you need to go to the emergency room it's about 100 euro.

If you need surgery it will be scheduled depending on how critical it is on the public system, or you can use your insurance to get treated privately.

If you are in the public hospital it's a maximum of 750 euro per year or 75 per day for a maximum of ten days.

If you have an European Health Insurance Card, then I believe you only pay the same as what you would pay if you were living at home. Which is nothing in many cases.

Certainly that's what has happened for colleagues of mine from continental European countries who've used the public system here.





Re banks, AIB have one slight advantage if you're working in a location which makes it difficult to get to a branch: it is possible to deposit to your AIB account at a Post Office, and Post Offices are open on Saturdays.

Graham

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If you have an European Health Insurance Card, then I believe you only pay the same as what you would pay if you were living at home. Which is nothing in many cases.

Certainly that's what has happened for colleagues of mine from continental European countries who've used the public system here.

If the OP is living/working here he will be considered 'ordinarily resident'.

EHIC is for temporary visitors and if I remember correctly only entitles the card holder to the same terms as are available to residents.

Added:

under the same conditions and at the same cost (free in some countries) as people insured in that country.

http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=559&langId=en

the_syco

Stheno wrote: »

If you need surgery you will either get it immediately if it's a critical case, or you will go on a waiting list if it's not critical.

Waiting lists can be a few years, depending on how serious it is, etc.

OP; look at VHI. Pay 50 a month, and if you use the hospital more than twice in a year, you'll have made your money back. 50 a month will mean you pay some excess, and also the 1st consultants fee. Personally, I paid the 50 a month, and the private consultants fee rather than wait two years to see the public doctor.

Public hospital dorm with 15 others, versus private room with max of one other person. May not seem much, but it also means instead of a 15:1 ratio of patients to bathroom, it's 2:1 or 1:1.

For pension, consider just paying into the one you use now?

not_a_sheep wrote: »

What about everything else? E.g ISPs, Mobile Phone Companies, Banks, etc?. Is there any agreement on who to generally avoid?

Ask the people you work with regarding phone companies. Often what is great in one area may have a horrible blackspot of coverage where you are. For example, I was with one mobile phone company that was okay in work, okay at home, but others went for great mobile signal at work, and used the WiFi at home.

ISP's are similar; some can be great, but sometimes you are limited to what you can get depending on location.

not_a_sheep

Thanks a lot @the_syco.

Any suggestions from a "social" perspective? I don't usually drink much and I don't smoke. How difficult is it to make friends and how much racism would you say there is?

Of course I don't expect the politically correct answer, but the truth. I am white, if this fact changes your answer.

Stheno

not_a_sheep wrote: »

Thanks a lot @the_syco.

Any suggestions from a "social" perspective? I don't usually drink much and I don't smoke. How difficult is it to make friends and how much racism would you say there is?

Of course I don't expect the politically correct answer, but the truth. I am white, if this fact changes your answer.

There are a huge amount of non Irish people working in tech here generally I'd say there is not much rascism

imitation

I would get health insurance while here. We don't leave people to die or hit people with insane bills after the fact, but you can be waiting for months for non emergency procedures. On one hand your young and can possibly chance it, on the other you have a healthy salary and seem health conscious. As with everywhere there is a huge range of prices, but you can pay from approx 600 onwards.

There are a lot of european nationals here, I think it would be easy enough to socialize, yes we are a drinking culture but there are plenty of other things to do in Dublin.

I don't think any of our banks or ISPs are particularly bad, the big banks are AIB and Bank of Ireland. Mobile phone wise vodafone have good coverage while three have better data plans, I think its probably a bit more expensive here sadly.

jimba

I can't quite put my finger on it, but there seems to be something fictional about the OP. Maybe I am wrong but my spidey senses are setting off all sorts of alarms.

not_a_sheep

jimba wrote: »

I can't quite put my finger on it, but there seems to be something fictional about the OP. Maybe I am wrong but my spidey senses are setting off all sorts of alarms.

I assure you I am not a troll or trying to waste anybody's time.

I am a young guy trying to figure out how to live away from my parents and how to not get screwed.

jimba

not_a_sheep wrote: »

I assure you I am not a troll or trying to waste anybody's time.

I am a young guy trying to figure out how to live away from my parents and how to not get screwed.

I'm not here to argue but I'm calling BS. Nobody, I don't care what age, who commands a salary of €85,000 would turn to a forum to ask about basic life questions such as living away from their parents. Also for a supposed person who has a different mother tongue, it is an odd choice for a username. Don't ask why, just odd. Contractors don't command a salary anyway.

BreadnBuddha

not_a_sheep wrote: »

I assure you I am not a troll or trying to waste anybody's time.

I am a young guy trying to figure out how to live away from my parents and how to not get screwed.

Don't mind him. Your questions are 'on point' and you're receiving accurate replies from others.

seamus

Just to clarify on the healthcare bit. Ireland technically has universal healthcare. When it comes to emergency treatment, everyone goes to the same public hospitals and receives the same treatment regardless of whether they are insured or not.

The costs of treatment through the public system are relatively small - as mentioned above, €75 per visit, with a cap. Nobody goes to a public hospital for an emergency appendectomy and walks out with a bill for €40,000.

No matter what kind of treatment you require, you always have the option of using the public system and paying a very small amount regardless of what treatment you're receiving.

However there are private services available, which is where your health insurance really kicks in. If you choose to go the public route for relatively small operations, you can end up waiting on a list for months. You won't have to pay anything, but your condition might deteriorate while you wait. If you have health insurance, you can go with a private hospital and get treated tomorrow. The bill is large, but that's why you have insurance.

So if you choose not to get insured, what you're losing out on is the option to go with a private hospital and skip the waiting lists - for non-urgent care. For urgent care there is no 2-tier system, you will go through the public hospitals.

not_a_sheep

seamus wrote: »

Just to clarify on the healthcare bit. Ireland technically has universal healthcare. When it comes to emergency treatment, everyone goes to the same public hospitals and receives the same treatment regardless of whether they are insured or not.

The costs of treatment through the public system are relatively small - as mentioned above, 75 per visit, with a cap. Nobody goes to a public hospital for an emergency appendectomy and walks out with a bill for 40,000.

No matter what kind of treatment you require, you always have the option of using the public system and paying a very small amount regardless of what treatment you're receiving.

However there are private services available, which is where your health insurance really kicks in. If you choose to go the public route for relatively small operations, you can end up waiting on a list for months. You won't have to pay anything, but your condition might deteriorate while you wait. If you have health insurance, you can go with a private hospital and get treated tomorrow. The bill is large, but that's why you have insurance.

So if you choose not to get insured, what you're losing out on is the option to go with a private hospital and skip the waiting lists - for non-urgent care. For urgent care there is no 2-tier system, you will go through the public hospitals.

Thanks a lot Seamus.

As a contractor I was thinking about also getting Income insurance. Any advice on recommended companies? The first one in Google appears to be new Ireland. They also appear to need 3 years of past income statements as a self-employed person. That sounds exaggerated.

Stheno

not_a_sheep wrote: »

Thanks a lot Seamus.

As a contractor I was thinking about also getting Income insurance. Any advice on recommended companies? The first one in Google appears to be new Ireland. They also appear to need 3 years of past income statements as a self-employed person. That sounds exaggerated.

Generous can help you with that.

When are you starting and have you got accommodation sorted?

not_a_sheep

I should be starting in September. I still have to decide where exactly I'm gonna live.

What is "generous" exactly, as I guess you don't mean generous as in "giving stuff for free to others"?

Stheno

not_a_sheep wrote: »

I should be starting in September. I still have to decide where exactly I'm gonna live.

What is "generous" exactly, as I guess you don't mean generous as in "giving stuff for free to others"?

Sorry that should have been fenero

September is six weeks away are you aware of how expensive it is to rent in Dublin and how few rentals are available? It could take six weeks plus to find accomodation

not_a_sheep

Stheno wrote: »

not_a_sheep wrote: »

I should be starting in September. I still have to decide where exactly I'm gonna live.

What is "generous" exactly, as I guess you don't mean generous as in "giving stuff for free to others"?

Sorry that should have been fenero

September is six weeks away are you aware of how expensive it is to rent in Dublin and how few rentals are available? It could take six weeks plus to find accomodation

Yeah, I already started looking. I still have to work through my notice period though, so I can't move in Ireland to do "in the field" search yet. In theory my recruiting company should help me find something.

Stheno

not_a_sheep wrote: »

Yeah, I already started looking. I still have to work through my notice period though, so I can't move in Ireland to do "in the field" search yet. In theory my recruiting company should help me find something.

I'd have getting accommodation sorted as your number one priority college students will be looking to rent from September and supply will dry up

tookotook

tookotook wrote: »

That's exceptional money, what industry is it? I'm 26, work as a software engineer and my salary is less than half that money.
What technologies will you be working with? Cheers

In contracting terms €45/hour would yield €84,600/annum (47 x 40 hour weeks).
It's not at all uncommon for folks with 3/4 years experience to haul that rate in as contractors.

Lot's going on in D15 at the moment to get the rates up.

Stheno

Augeo wrote: »

In contracting terms €45/hour would yield €84,600/annum (47 x 40 hour weeks).
It's not at all uncommon for folks with 3/4 years experience to haul that rate in as contractors.

Lot's going on in D15 at the moment to get the rates up.

Also as a contractor you would be aiming to earn at least 1.5 times what you would gross as a permanent employee

jobless

Stheno wrote: »

Also as a contractor you would be aiming to earn at least 1.5 times what you would gross as a permanent employee

Are contractors entitled to social welfare if they become unemployed

Stheno

jobless wrote: »

Are contractors entitled to social welfare if they become unemployed

JSA via means test.

Not JSB

Mrs OBumble

seamus wrote: »

However there are private services available, which is where your health insurance really kicks in. If you choose to go the public route for relatively small operations, you can end up waiting on a list for months. You won't have to pay anything, but your condition might deteriorate while you wait. If you have health insurance, you can go with a private hospital and get treated tomorrow. The bill is large, but that's why you have insurance.

On the other hand, a lot of European immigrants choose to go home for non-urgent surgery, because they have family support there, and because they feel it's easier to receive quality medical care from staff with the same first-language.

not_a_sheep

Forgot to ask: the health insurance does usually cover meds? If not, is there a cap to how much one has to pay?

EDIT:

Also, are there people who can make these decisions for me, sort-of like a broker? If paying a fee allows me to delegate these decisions I'll gladly do it. I'm not even sure what they are called.

Graham

not_a_sheep wrote: »

Forgot to ask: the health insurance does usually cover meds? If not, is there a cap to how much one has to pay?

EDIT:

Also, are there people who can make these decisions for me, sort-of like a broker? If paying a fee allows me to delegate these decisions I'll gladly do it. I'm not even sure what they are called.

If you're healthy and young, what is the obsession with the cost of healthcare? Are you particularly accident prone?

You might want to hold off until you arrive before you start your little insurance/assistant spending spree. You'd be better off starting with the essentials.

€85k is a reasonable enough rate but that's your gross figure not what you'll see in your pocket. It won't take you long to mill through what's left.

If you're planning on living on your own there's the guts of around €16k - €20k gone between rent and bills. Allow €3k - €6k for groceries. €1k - €2k for phone/internet/mobile. Do you drive, planning to get a car? Public transport? I assume you'll want a social life, maybe a holiday, a trip or three back home to see the family.

Graham

Graham wrote: »

............
€85k is a reasonable enough rate .............

It's a very, very decent amount to earn in a year.

Graham

Augeo wrote: »

It's a very, very decent amount to earn in a year.

I don't disagree. The point was, however decent the rate is the OP isn't going to be taking that amount home and by the time he's paid for his personal assistant and every type of insurance going. It's not going to take long to burn through it.