Call Out

truthseeker91

This is a call out to like minded people.

All I ever want from any situation in life is the truth.
I have been doing some research and pondering in the past few years and sadly my discoveries have genuinely brought tears to my eyes.
Curiosity has lead me on an information path that holds a number of answers about how the world works i.e. Economics, wealth distribution, banking, the food industry, pharmaceuticals, government, corporatoracy. The list goes on and on. I'm talking about real answers. Not the answers you receive from the mass media.
Answers you go and find for yourself. Verifiable facts.

The world we live in is not the way things are supposed to be. We all know this in some way. Conscious or unconscious. We're spiritual beings that have far more potential than we can begin to comprehend.
Since I was young I've had a gut feeling that there's something wrong in the world. We believe we are free but in fact we're trapped in a society that leads us to believe we're free while holding us in economic slavery.
Cures for diseases exist along with sustainable infinite energy and many
other solutions to problems that we believe only exist in our dreams or in the distant future. To be honest, most of us don't even care. We go about our day to day activities in a state of unawareness.
The routines we have are our own way of justifying ignorance to the truth. We don't have time to be worrying about these things. We're to busy.

We're in a constant state of distraction. Television, newspapers, fashion, smartphones, our appearance, our jobs(For those of you who work for a large company, the only reason you're still employed is because they haven't found an efficient way to automate you yet).
We're as bad as the perpetrators though. We've happily accepted and incorporated all these meaningless things into our lives. Why wouldn't we? How many of us are actually able to
be aware of the truth and continue to live the same way without taking action? The necessary action is so far from the "norm" that anyone who decides to take it is outcast and rejected and even eliminated in certain cases.
That's how deep this parasite has been planted.
I don't have the solutions nor do I have an alternative. But an alternative does exist. There are thousands in support of a movement to change the world for the better. The only way to implement this is through communication and cooperation. This is my communication. I am willing to make the necessary sacrifices. Doing this alone however, would leave me in isolation and unable to survive.

A parasite occupies a host and makes the host crave that which the parasite needs to survive and grow.

Ask yourself, who's the parasite and who's the host?

looksee

Could you be a bit more specific about what you mean by 'parasite', 'host', 'perpetrators' and what 'action' you feel people should take? And could you help us along by telling us some of the 'verifiable facts' that your 'information paths' have discovered?

Speedwell

I used to research my aches and pains on Google, as many Americans do to try to avoid as much as possible the punitive cost of health care, and I wound up convinced I had several incurable conditions for which I needed to be hospitalised. My actual diagnosis? Situational anxiety. After a few weeks of therapy, I learned how to overcome worried self-talk and avoid being overstimulated by negative thinking.

truthseeker91

Here's a few sources

.Thrive movement
.The Colbert Report
.Alex Jones - Prison Planet and Info Wars.
.Free Press
.Alternet

I'd recommend a few documentaries too

- Zeitgeist(3 Movies)
- Kymatica
- Thrive

The Host is us - The general population

The Parasite(s)/Perpetrators are those who control and fund the most profitable industries in the world e.g Fossil Fuels, Agriculture, Military. It's a long list.

truthseeker91

Speedwell wrote: »

I used to research my aches and pains on Google, as many Americans do to try to avoid as much as possible the punitive cost of health care, and I wound up convinced I had several incurable conditions for which I needed to be hospitalised. My actual diagnosis? Situational anxiety. After a few weeks of therapy, I learned how to overcome worried self-talk and avoid being overstimulated by negative thinking.

They do say ignorance is bliss. I'm glad you've overcome that. I see anxiety affect a lot of people. I'm lucky not to be impacted by negativity in that way. All problems do is create solutions.

Speedwell

truthseeker91 wrote: »

I'm lucky not to be impacted by negativity in that way.

Okay.

looksee

truthseeker91 wrote: »

They do say ignorance is bliss. I'm glad you've overcome that. I see anxiety affect a lot of people. I'm lucky not to be impacted by negativity in that way. All problems do is create solutions.

That is really profound. I think.

looksee

So I checked out Thrive movement. Quote:

The mission of THRIVE Movement is to catalyze and empower informed conversations and self-creating strategic actions that transform the status quo so that everyone has the opportunity to thrive.

So what is the first step on this road to transforming the status quo?

Give us money!

All donations go toward sustaining the THRIVE movement, including coordinating solutions strategies, critical mass actions, maintaining the website and customer interface, and translating the movie into more languages. We rely on donations and the sale of DVDs to keep the THRIVE movement going.
Choose a donation amount:

Right enough, someone is going to thrive!

Speedwell

Well, on the bright side, the OP is genuinely trying to do good in the world. I think. I used to have a lot of friends in the US who were into various countercultural, New Age, and conspiracy theories. Not much sharper than a bag of hammers, but good people on the whole. I'd rather hang with them around a campfire in the woods, drinking wine, slapping mosquitoes, and chatting about the sentience of the Universe, than with a bunch of backstabby, hypercritical software engineers any day of the year.

ScumLord

truthseeker91 wrote: »

Here's a few sources

.Thrive movement
.The Colbert Report
.Alex Jones - Prison Planet and Info Wars.
.Free Press
.Alternet

Nonsense merchants. If you're looking for the truth you simply won't find it there, these people and groups are conspiring to fool you into thinking they have anything legitimate to say and then discrediting all other sources of information so you won't trust anyone else. Pretty much everything they say can be debunked pretty easily.

They like to say that big business is controlling everything, and yes, while big pharma is more concerned about making profit than actually curing diseases modern technology is helping to erode their control. Colleges spit out doctors, researchers, engineers every year. Some of those people end up working in big business but others go onto start their own companies, some start projects like pop up laboratories that anyone can use to conduct research themselves. Science isn't the reserve of big business anyone can do the research themselves. So unless you're telling me you've got the education and have done the research then you can't say one way or the other what's actually happening. Even big pharma is going to have people working in the industry that got into it for all the right reasons. I don't believe for one second that these people can be turned into mindless storm troopers once they get a job in big business.


Alex Jones presents a fantastical version of reality that takes advantage of general ignorance.

truthseeker91

ScumLord wrote: »

Nonsense merchants. If you're looking for the truth you simply won't find it there, these people and groups are conspiring to fool you into thinking they have anything legitimate to say and then discrediting all other sources of information so you won't trust anyone else. Pretty much everything they say can be debunked pretty easily.

They like to say that big business is controlling everything, and yes, while big pharma is more concerned about making profit than actually curing diseases modern technology is helping to erode their control. Colleges spit out doctors, researchers, engineers every year. Some of those people end up working in big business but others go onto start their own companies, some start projects like pop up laboratories that anyone can use to conduct research themselves. Science isn't the reserve of big business anyone can do the research themselves. So unless you're telling me you've got the education and have done the research then you can't say one way or the other what's actually happening. Even big pharma is going to have people working in the industry that got into it for all the right reasons. I don't believe for one second that these people can be turned into mindless storm troopers once they get a job in big business.


Alex Jones presents a fantastical version of reality that takes advantage of general ignorance.

Have you any suggestions on where I can find the truth? If every source of information has an alternative agenda than just giving free information for the sake of it then who can you trust?

How can you debunk the fact that prompt for entering war in Vietnam was based on a false event that has been officially removed from the history books? The Gulf of Tonkin. Same with the war on Iraq. False pretences. Alleged weapons of mass destruction that recently turned out to be untrue. The media at the time actually said "It has been confirmed that Saddam Hussein is harbouring weapons of mass destruction."

Who's responsible for the financial crashes around the world? The banks. Who gets millions in bailout from the government? The banks. Who supplies money to the governments? The banks.

I'm certainly not taking a stab at science or innovation. It's obviously the way forward and I know there are some brilliant minds out there who are acting for good rather than serving the plans of the corporate world. I do believe that in order to conduct proper research funding is required. Look at the betrayal of Nikola Tesla.

On a positive note, I'd like to learn more about these pop up labs if you've any more information about them it would be well received.

Ipso

In fairness Colbert is very clever and a good satirist.
I used to think Jones was a very good actor but he's crazier than a **** house rat. How many times has he predicted his own assassination now (amongst other nonsense)?

ScumLord

truthseeker91 wrote: »

Have you any suggestions on where I can find the truth? If every source of information has an alternative agenda than just giving free information for the sake of it then who can you trust?

The mantra "trust no one" is actually a good one, or at the very least, trust that they're serving their own self interests and biases. Everyone has a vested interest these days, a board set up to promote eggs is going to be heavily biased to the point anything they say needs to be taken under the advisement that they can't say anything negative about eggs, and the positive things they say are probably blown out of proportion.

We're not great at challenging information, we tend to just accept what we're told and if someone tells us otherwise we take it as an offense to the first person that told us something. We make like to make negative assumptions about things we don't understand or just have no information on. But the current trend of conspiracy theory is insidious in that its focus seems to be on attacking established science because it won't agree that flights of fancy are as valid as actual scientific research.

How can you debunk the fact that prompt for entering war in Vietnam was based on a false event that has been officially removed from the history books? The Gulf of Tonkin. Same with the war on Iraq. False pretences. Alleged weapons of mass destruction that recently turned out to be untrue. The media at the time actually said "It has been confirmed that Saddam Hussein is harbouring weapons of mass destruction."

I wouldn't go out of my way to debunk all that, most of it is founded in truth and discussed at length by people who know what they're talking about. It's what it all means that is bunkum, Alex ;likes to link up random events and put them into a chronological narrative that's all linked. The real world just isn't simple enough for Alex Joneses Theories to work.

Who's responsible for the financial crashes around the world? The banks. Who gets millions in bailout from the government? The banks. Who supplies money to the governments? The banks.

Banks, governments, all of us really. The banks didn't force anyone to take their loans. I'd blame the banks at the end of the day, they should have known what they were doing.

On a positive note, I'd like to learn more about these pop up labs if you've any more information about them it would be well received.

There's a name for them that I just can't think of now. But there are loads of examples in many different fields.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do-it-yourself_biology

Corporations will find it very difficult to survive into the future, there are many new technologies like 3D printing that will allow pretty much anyone to set up a business making bespoke high quality products at a fraction of the current cost. Big corporations will find it hard to compete because their geared towards mass production. They're size will make it impossible for them to be agile enough for the demands of future generations.

Tzar Chasm

Hi Truthseeker91.

Welcome to the CT world, You are right and you are wrong. Yes the world seems wrong, Yes it looks like there is a great overarching conspiracy to hide the truth, but the actual truth is worse than you first expected. The people conspiring against us are Everyone, all those people who buy into the system, who acept things as they are and play along simply to fulfil their own needs and desires. Everyone who tells you not to rock the boat. All of those people are, by their compliance, perpetuating the system.

The problem with the CT movement is that it raises a lot of problems and questions, without offering solutions.

Most people dont want to hear about it, without a feasible alternative most people would rather push their doubts to the back of their minds and get on with their daily grind.

Sorry i cant tell you some profound truth about the universe

ScumLord

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

The people conspiring against us are Everyone, all those people who buy into the system, who acept things as they are and play along simply to fulfil their own needs and desires. Everyone who tells you not to rock the boat. All of those people are, by their compliance, perpetuating the system.

I agree everyone contributes, but I don't think there is anyone in control. There is no group of banks or super rich that are orchestrating the world to a preordained plan of theirs. Human society is way too complex and massive for anyone to have any chance of controlling the world. It's lot's of separate groups and interests competing with each other, it's eb and flow and no one really knows what's going to happen from one day to the next.

weisses

ScumLord wrote: »

I agree everyone contributes, but I don't think there is anyone in control. There is no group of banks or super rich that are orchestrating the world to a preordained plan of theirs. Human society is way too complex and massive for anyone to have any chance of controlling the world. It's lot's of separate groups and interests competing with each other, it's eb and flow and no one really knows what's going to happen from one day to the next.

There is always someone in Control.

ScumLord

weisses wrote: »

There is always someone in Control.

There's never anyone in control. Anyone who thinks they are in control is deluding themselves.

weisses

ScumLord wrote: »

There's never anyone in control. Anyone who thinks they are in control is deluding themselves.

Group of people ?

Speedwell

weisses wrote: »

Group of people ?

Not even that. Every conspiracy theory out there is someone's effort to make something incomprehensibly complex (social and economic science) into something simple enough to grasp with the unaided brain. It's like taking a trillion and saying it's actually only a few hundred if you look at it the right way. It's like pretending the chips with curry sauce you had for lunch is what Indian cuisine is all about. It's like taking a two-hour class in sailing during your Miami vacation and thinking you know what sea navigation is all about. It's just like knowing the star signs from Aries to Pisces and imagining you are an astrophysicist. It's just not enough to say "oh, I know what makes the world tick". You can't know. And some people are profoundly not-OK with that.

Dohnjoe

truthseeker91 wrote: »

Have you any suggestions on where I can find the truth? If every source of information has an alternative agenda than just giving free information for the sake of it then who can you trust?

Wikipedia is a good start. Multiple sources which can be checked.

Re truth-searching, well take any large live football match. All the dozens of outlets that will be covering it, obviously they'll all corroborate each other.

Likewise with current news or history. Multiple sources will corroborate each other. None of their own are infallible, mistakes can be made, or worse yet have their own agenda or a narrative which they use to spin/distort/flat out lie about a story but in general and on the whole we can build up a reliable picture. And not every outlet, source, expert carries the same weight. Some are far more credible and accountable than others, but you'll generally find corroboration occurs to produce the truth or as close as

(and for Lord's sake don't make the mistake of misunderstanding that dozens of reporters and journalists can report a false statement, if Obama stood up and said aliens were arriving on earth tomorrow, regardless of whether it was going to happen or not, reporters would report it. Further analysis would analyse it .. and so on)

Events like the Vietnam war or Iraq war or financial crisis are pretty damn complex, even in their simplest forms. And because they are divisive events - there's a lot of misinformation around the fringes and also debate around the finer issues. It also means that woo-merchants like Alex Jones can take advantage of the complexity and produce far more simpler titillating versions that will appeal to a certain market

Bottom line is, without sounding too condescending, if you're curious about e.g. "chemtrails", or the Vietnam war don't go to a conspiracy site (you'll only find conspiracies) Go to a meteorology or historical forum/site. Or go get the general idea at Wikipedia or similar.

Tzar Chasm

I would add the caveat, that, although there was no overarching conspiracy to create the current order of things, there have been instances in history where people have conspired to shape events and outcomes for the benefit of small groups at the expense of everyone else.

ScumLord

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

I would add the caveat, that, although there was no overarching conspiracy to create the current order of things, there have been instances in history where people have conspired to shape events and outcomes for the benefit of small groups at the expense of everyone else.

That is very true and probably the route of modern conspiracy theories. But the world is very different to how it was when these things happened. We've brought in laws to make it more and more difficult for anyone or any group to have that kind of control. There's also a heap more competition these days, one company can't have things all it's own way because dozens of other companies would only love to see them hung out to dry.

Tzar Chasm

But, a few dozen decisions over the course of centuries have shaped the world around us.

Some were well intentioned errors, some were the product of ineptitude, and some were deliberate conspiracies.

Understanding those differences is the first step in working things out, then examining current/recent events to understand the motivating factor

Speedwell

Yes, even though the world is this big scary irreducibly complex thing, there are nevertheless true things you can say about it. That's the job of science and of philosophy. Any time you are confronted by a conspiracy theory... a religion... propaganda... advertising... manipulation... your first question should always be, "does this make sense based on what I know?", and your second question, "what would the world look like if this were really true?", and your third question, "would the world look any different if it weren't true?". Once you understand how people think, you understand when they're getting fooled by fallacies and wishful thinking and the need to have some excitement in their lives and to feel in control. There are ways to evaluate and find out the truth of a claim that you can do by yourself. I don't agree with all the goals or motivations of the "Less Wrong" community, for example, but they are unparalleled in their attempts to discover how to find out what things are true.

looksee

Seems to me the nearest anyone has got to being 'in control' is through religion.

weisses

How did we go from me replying to this

There is no group of banks or super rich that are orchestrating the world to a preordained plan of theirs. Human society

To your reply below ?

Speedwell wrote: »

Not even that. Every conspiracy theory out there is someone's effort to make something incomprehensibly complex (social and economic science) into something simple enough to grasp with the unaided brain. It's like taking a trillion and saying it's actually only a few hundred if you look at it the right way. It's like pretending the chips with curry sauce you had for lunch is what Indian cuisine is all about. It's like taking a two-hour class in sailing during your Miami vacation and thinking you know what sea navigation is all about. It's just like knowing the star signs from Aries to Pisces and imagining you are an astrophysicist. It's just not enough to say "oh, I know what makes the world tick". You can't know. And some people are profoundly not-OK with that.

You may find it nonsense but I believe there is some truth in the piece below

http://www.globalresearch.ca/world-bank-whistleblower-reveals-how-the-global-elite-rule-the-world/5353130

Dohnjoe

weisses wrote: »

You may find it nonsense but I believe there is some truth in the piece below

http://www.globalresearch.ca/world-bank-whistleblower-reveals-how-the-global-elite-rule-the-world/5353130

The opener is:

"She was in a unique position to see exactly how the global elite rules the world, and the information that she is now revealing to the public is absolutely stunning.

According to Hudes, the elite uses a very tight core of financial institutions and mega-corporations to dominate the planet.
The goal is control. They want all of us enslaved to debt, they want all of our governments enslaved to debt, and they want all of our politicians addicted to the huge financial contributions that they funnel into their campaigns. Since the elite also own all of the big media companies, the mainstream media never lets us in on the secret that there is something fundamentally wrong with the way that our system works."

As I previously explained, it's a textbook example of simplifying something very complicated and selling a distorted titillating version of it to those that want to believe

Or those that have a hard time dealing with the possibility that not everything is controlled

weisses

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The opener is:

"She was in a unique position to see exactly how the global elite rules the world, and the information that she is now revealing to the public is absolutely stunning.

According to Hudes, the elite uses a very tight core of financial institutions and mega-corporations to dominate the planet.
The goal is control. They want all of us enslaved to debt, they want all of our governments enslaved to debt, and they want all of our politicians addicted to the huge financial contributions that they funnel into their campaigns. Since the elite also own all of the big media companies, the mainstream media never lets us in on the secret that there is something fundamentally wrong with the way that our system works."

As I previously explained, it's a textbook example of simplifying something very complicated and selling a distorted titillating version of it to those that want to believe

Or those that have a hard time dealing with the possibility that not everything is controlled

your problem is that you only look at the opener

Then you state its complicated followed by claiming she is selling a distorted version

Can I have your version ?

Speedwell

For those evaluating the truth claims made by others, here's a handy guide to the most common fallacies (bad arguments that don't prove what they purport to prove): http://onegoodmove.org/fallacy/toc.htm In persuasion and propaganda, you'll often see these fallacies resorted to, as well as pure counterfactual statements (i.e. lies). It is possible to prove through logical analysis (a branch of mathematics applied to communication) why all of these fallacies do not lead to the claimed results.

weisses

Speedwell wrote: »

For those evaluating the truth claims made by others, here's a handy guide to the most common fallacies (bad arguments that don't prove what they purport to prove): http://onegoodmove.org/fallacy/toc.htm In persuasion and propaganda, you'll often see these fallacies resorted to, as well as pure counterfactual statements (i.e. lies). It is possible to prove through logical analysis (a branch of mathematics applied to communication) why all of these fallacies do not lead to the claimed results.

Maybe put more effort in actually addressing the points people make

Speedwell

weisses wrote: »

Maybe put more effort in actually addressing the points people make

That happened to be specifically addressed to the person who wanted to know how to find out what the truth was. Don't throw your toys out of the pram because I didn't pay attention to YOU.