David Moyes - New Sunderland Manager

Paully D

Confirmed by the club on a 4 year deal.

Thoughts on this appointment?

As a Sunderland fan, it's hardly the most earth shattering appointment, but with exactly 21 days until the start of the season it's probably the best one that the club have made all things considered. With 3 weeks until kick off, you can't have someone come in and implement big changes from Allardyce as there's just simply not enough time.

"All" he has to do to be labelled a success is to keep the team away from a last ditch relegation battle and give us a boring, comfortable season. If you have Sunderland all but safe by April (30 games in) it'll be a job well done. You could hardly ask for lower expectations really so it's a great job for him to come back into to try and restore his reputation.

That said, he has 3 weeks until the start of the season and inherits a squad weaker than the one that squeaked survival on the second last game of the season last year. He will also start the season with City away, a derby with Boro at home, Southampton away, Everton home and Spurs away. Realistically, you can't ask for a tougher start than that. He'll need to get his targets in thick and fast.

It'll be very interesting to see how things go.

keeponhurling

He was very spectacularly poor and was sacked from his previous 2 jobs.

Quite a leap of faith for Sunderland to overlook this, I feel.

Can't see it ending well.

ricero

Have a feelin poor moysie is a broken man at this stage

Dirty Dingus McGee

Great appointment for Sunderland.

I'd say their days of constantly flirting with relegation will be over, he seems like a safe pair of hands and will turn them into a solid mid table team.

I'd ignore his last 2 jobs as clearly Man Utd was a step too far for him (no shame in that) and he didn't seem fully committed to Sociedad.

LeeJM

Really good appointment for Sunderland. The football wont always be "pretty" but I would expect a finish somewhere between 11th-15th with no relegation worries. Be interested to see does he move for anybody from his former clubs.

holy guacamole

They're a good match: a manager who specialises in mediocrity and a club mired in it.

If Sunderland are happy to finish 12th, 13th etc season upon season then they've got exactly the right man for the job.

eh i dunno

Great appointment by Sunderland. He'll guarantee top twelve every season which is all Sunderland can expect without major investment. The football wasn't great at Everton at first but he had them playing decent stuff after a few years.

Wouldn't read too much into his last two jobs. Whoever took over from fergie was on a hiding to nothing. The Spain move was the wrong one. How many British managers succeed abroad?

Giggsy11

Very good appointment for Sunderland. Easily better than any of their managers in the recent past maybe except big Sam.

Good to see Davie back.

He'll do ok with Sunderland.

Skylinehead

holy guacamole wrote: »

They're a good match: a manager who specialises in mediocrity and a club mired in it.

If Sunderland are happy to finish 12th, 13th etc season upon season then they've got exactly the right man for the job.

Well, that logically should be the next step for Sunderland. Right now, they're 15th, 16th etc season upon season.

17th is as good as 8th. Staying in the league is what it's all about for most owners.

Maximus Alexander

As has been said, I can see him keeping them safe which is exactly what that club needs right now. Seems like a good appointment. His United stint ruined his reputation, but he did a good job for a long time at Everton.

AgileMyth

holy guacamole wrote: »

They're a good match: a manager who specialises in mediocrity and a club mired in it.

If Sunderland are happy to finish 12th, 13th etc season upon season then they've got exactly the right man for the job.

His record with Everton was much better than that. Just a guess, you wouldn't be a Manchester United fan by any chance?!

GLaDOS

Don't think they could have done much better. Should keep them up, which is all they want in the short term.

Laois_Man

As an Everton supporter, I know Moyes well. While someone may say all he has to do is keep Sunderalnd in the top 12 to be a success, as he found out at Everton, expectations have a way of rising very quickly. When he arrived at Everon, it was thought 7th in the PL was nowhere near relaistic. After doing that in his first season, followed by a second season syndrome wobble, then 4th, it wasn't that long before 7th in the PL wasn't looked upon that favourably. In those early seasons, as someone said, the football wasn't great but Everton were very hard to beat and I expect him to instill a similar mentality at Sunderland fairly quickly. Gradually the quality of the football increased and it was very very good at the end.

As for Man Utd, any0ne would have struggled to follow the greatest manager ever seen (in most people's opinions I think - certainly in mine). I don't think he would have fared any worse the LvG in the following two seasons if he had stayed.

With Soicedad, he improved them greatly in the first 6 monhths, taking them from 19th to 12th but then second season syndrome seemed to hit again.

I think he deserves this chance and I can't think of a better appointment Sunderland could have made. I'll be watching with great interest, especially his games against Everton.

mikeym

Feel sorry for Moyesey the way Man Utd treated him.

Wish him the best of luck.

^ Ha, at least we got to page two...

M!Ck^

M!Ck^ wrote: »

^ Ha, at least we got to page two...

Still page 1!

holy guacamole

AgileMyth wrote: »

His record with Everton was much better than that. Just a guess, you wouldn't be a Manchester United fan by any chance?!

Is it that obvious?

Nah, I appreciate that he brought Everton to a certain level and some (not all) of their fans were sad to see him go. But I see him as a fairly limited manager, one capable of steadying ships and instilling good organisation and discipline but not a whole lot else.

For me the most damning indictment of his entire career is his inability to beat any of the top sides away from home while manager at Everton, a record he continued during his time at United where his only success against the top four was a scrappy 1-0 win at home to Arsenal.

enzo roco

holy guacamole wrote: »

They're a good match: a manager who specialises in mediocrity and a club mired in it.
.

Hold on there, who is a good manager in your opinion???
Name a few.

Managers get way too much abuse constantly, and lose their jobs way too easily. There are no decent managers left according to some fans.

Sure Sunderland should have gone for Jose, what a mediocre club. No ambition!!! I hope they are in League 2 in a few years. Fudge them, losers!!!!

Liam McPoyle

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

His United stint ruined his reputation.

Do you really think that?

I certainly wouldn't anyway.

Realistically there were probably only a handful of managers that could have directly followed on from Fergie and hoped to come even close to his achievements straight away, he left an ageing squad that had no right to be league champions, that in itself is testament to Fergies brilliance.

The money we have spent since Fergie left coupled with the lack of success also shows just how big a rebuild was / is needed.

Moyes went from having no real pressure on him to being the most scrutinized manager in the world over night, there is absolutely no shame in having failed at arguably the biggest job in world football.

Great for Sunderland and great for Moyes and even as someone who didn't want him at United from the get go, I'd hope he does well.

Shanotheslayer

RoboKlopp wrote: »

17th is as good as 8th. Staying in the league is what it's all about for most owners.

You do realize you get more money the higher up the league you finished?

Millions in the difference. Which would matter to clubs who need money.

holy guacamole

enzo roco wrote: »

Hold on there, who is a good manager in your opinion???
Name a few.

The good managers are those in possession of the top jobs or the ones who've performed above expectations at mid to lower level clubs. Consistency over a period of more than five years should also be taken into account here. Bearing that in mind I would say that Wenger, Mourinho, Guardiola, Pochettino, Hughes, Howe, Klopp, Conte and Dyche are good managers with maybe one or two of them being considered outstanding managers.


Then you have the potentially good managers who, for one reason or another, haven't had the breaks afforded to others but might prove themselves at some point in the future.

Then you have the rest, the old reliables, who will guarantee promotion/survival/stability but not much else. Moyes falls into that category.

I don't blame Sunderland for opting for him but would always prefer to see managers from lower league teams given the chance to test themselves in the top flight.

enzo roco

holy guacamole wrote: »

The good managers are those in possession of the top jobs or the ones who've performed above expectations at mid to lower level clubs. Consistency over a period of more than five years should also be taken into account here. Bearing that in mind I would say that Wenger, Mourinho, Guardiola, Pochettino, Hughes, Howe, Klopp, Conte and Dyche are good managers with maybe one or two of them being considered outstanding managers.


Then you have the potentially good managers who, for one reason or another, haven't had the breaks afforded to others but might prove themselves at some point in the future.

Then you have the rest, the old reliables, who will guarantee promotion/survival/stability but not much else. Moyes falls into that category.

I don't blame Sunderland for opting for him but would always prefer to see managers from lower league teams given the chance to test themselves in the top flight.

What a load of rubbish. Out of the premier league managers listed, I would bet that at least 2 of them wont make it until May.
Its fans like you that just sit there and criticise managers after every result. And would call for the head of a manager like Howe in December if he is in the regulation zone.

holy guacamole

enzo roco wrote: »

Its fans like you that just sit there and criticise managers after every result. And would call for the head of a manager like Howe in December if he is in the regulation zone.

How do you draw that conclusion from my post? And how could you possibly know how I'd react to the manager of my team going through a rough patch? Seems like you're quick to label me a 'knee-jerk' supporter but not so quick to actually offer a counter-argument.

For what it's worth I backed Van Gaal for the majority of his time at United until it became clear that the team was going backwards under his regime.

Alternatively I recognised within a couple of months of Moyes time at the club that he was out of his depth and couldn't wait for him to leave.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

You do realize you get more money the higher up the league you finished?

Millions in the difference. Which would matter to clubs who need money.

From a sporting point of view there is no difference between 17th and 8th.

I've never understood some teams in England who don't give their all in the Euoropa League or in the cups and yet are at no risk of relegation or getting into the champions league.

If I was a fan I'd rather the team win one the cups than have a slightly better position in the middle of the league.

Mr.Prodston

I hope he does really well. He's a very good manager and I truly can't understand why people seem to genuinely dislike him. Sometimes things don't work out but it's not always a zero sum game where it's always a managers fault.

It's a coup for Sunderland but there's a lot of hard work to make up in a short space of time. Assuming he keeps the ship afloat early on then he could rejuvenate Sunderland back into the middle ground. In theory at least they couldn't really have appointed anyone better.

Then again it is Sunderland so who knows. I just don't understand how he gets the amount of ridicule he does.

Backstreet Moyes

holy guacamole wrote: »

The good managers are those in possession of the top jobs or the ones who've performed above expectations at mid to lower level clubs. Consistency over a period of more than five years should also be taken into account here. Bearing that in mind I would say that Wenger, Mourinho, Guardiola, Pochettino, Hughes, Howe, Klopp, Conte and Dyche are good managers with maybe one or two of them being considered outstanding managers.


Then you have the rest, the old reliables, who will guarantee promotion/survival/stability but not much else. Moyes falls into that category.

I don't blame Sunderland for opting for him but would always prefer to see managers from lower league teams given the chance to test themselves in the top flight.

You named 7 managers who are out of Sunderlands league, one who has done nowhere near at Bournemouth than Moyes did at Everton and Dyche who got Burnley relegated.

Who are these managers from the lower leagues you suggest and why are they managing in the lower leagues if they are better than Moyes.

Who are these fantasy managers that will come in and go beyond stability and survival that Sunderland need.

Sunderland make no mistake have made a great decision hiring Moyes.

Moyes or Bruce, Moyes or Bruce...if I was a Sunderland fan I'd be down on my knees thanking God it wasn't Bruce...

holy guacamole

Nuts102 wrote: »

You named 7 managers who are out of Sunderlands league, one who has done nowhere near at Bournemouth than Moyes did at Everton and Dyche who got Burnley relegated.

Who are these managers from the lower leagues you suggest and why are they managing in the lower leagues if they are better than Moyes.

Who are these fantasy managers that will come in and go beyond stability and survival that Sunderland need.

Sunderland make no mistake have made a great decision hiring Moyes.

I named those managers because someone asked me who I thought were good managers. Wasn't suggesting Sunderland should be trying to hire any of them.

Also, I didn't say that those managing in the lower leagues were better than Moyes, simply that I'd prefer to see them given a chance ahead of him.

Moyes will provide stability and ensure they avoid the drop for the next few years but if the club wishes to move forward they should be looking for a fresher face imo. Of those currently managing at a lower level I'd like to see Keith Hill and Neal Ardley given a go in the PL.

Bounty Hunter

Considering who I think they could get if I was a Sunderland fan I think Moyes would be almost if not at the top of the list of who I would want. It may not work out and as of now they have not exactly strengthened a team that barely survived last season and there are only a few weeks to go but I'd say Moyes has a better chance of keeping them up than almost anybody people could suggest Sunderland should have went for hence people aren't really throwing out other names Sunderland should have went for.

Backstreet Moyes

holy guacamole wrote: »

I named those managers because someone asked me who I thought were good managers. Wasn't suggesting Sunderland should be trying to hire any of them.

Also, I didn't say that those managing in the lower leagues were better than Moyes, simply that I'd prefer to see them given a chance ahead of him.

Moyes will provide stability and ensure they avoid the drop for the next few years but if the club wishes to move forward they should be looking for a fresher face imo. Of those currently managing at a lower level I'd like to see Keith Hill and Neal Ardley given a go in the PL.

Moyes took over Everton when they weren't in much better shape than Sunderland and finished 4th and in the top 7 multiples times.

What exactly is your expectations for Sunderland a manager to come in and be challenging for a champions league spot within a few seasons?

You are talking absolute nonsense, Moyes track record proves your suggestion he will just help avoid the drop to be completely wrong.

Then you suggest two managers who have shown nothing compared to Moyes and suggest they should be given a go.

In fact everything you are saying can be proven wrong by typing David Moyes into wikapedia and look at his time at Everton.

holy guacamole

Nuts102 wrote: »

What exactly is your expectations for Sunderland a manager to come in and be challenging for a champions league spot within a few seasons?

You are talking absolute nonsense, Moyes track record proves your suggestion he will just help avoid the drop to be completely wrong.

Then you suggest two managers who have shown nothing compared to Moyes and suggest they should be given a go.

In fact everything you are saying can be proven wrong by typing David Moyes into wikapedia and look at his time at Everton.

I have no expectations for a Sunderland manager but in terms of average gates at least they should be regularly in the top eight.

As for the rest of your post, I'm fully aware of Moyes' track record and how he fared at Everton but still believe that the best Sunderland fans can hope for is a period of relative stability and mid-to-lower table finishes under Moyes.

Also, Keith Hill has won two promotions with Rochdale in his time, Moyes only has one promotion and a Charity Shield to his name. :P
the above can be considered mildly pedantic and slightly tongue-in-cheek

Nidgeweasel

An out and out loser. Sunderland could have done so much better.

Toobz

Some Sunderland fans really underestimating this appointment?
You're probably the most unattractive job in the premier league. Moyes will continue where Sam off. He's a great manager at this level.

Pawwed Rig

Sunderland were blessed to stay up last year. Moyes will do a great job to keep them up this time around.

Backstreet Moyes

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

An out and out loser. Sunderland could have done so much better.

List out a few much better managers who would have been interested in the job.

Nidgeweasel

Nuts102 wrote: »

List out a few much better managers who would have been interested in the job.

list me a manager. Chances are they'll have better than custard teeth.

Nidgeweasel

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

custard teeth.

??????

I'm not getting the reference. Is he known for yellow teeth?

List me a manager. We'll analyse the teeth.

Paully D

Toobz wrote: »

Some Sunderland fans really underestimating this appointment?
You're probably the most unattractive job in the premier league. Moyes will continue where Sam off. He's a great manager at this level.

I haven't seen any evidence of Sunderland fans underestimating the appointment. I said it was hardly earth shattering, which it isn't, and I think I've spoke to/read a handful of supporters from hundreds of opinions who aren't happy with it. The vast, vast majority think it's a good appointment.

Sunderland are from from the most unattractive job in the league either. They're going into their 10th consecutive season as a Premier League club. They average 40,000 every week and have facilities that rival even the top sides. They pay their managers and players good money and are always there or thereabouts in terms of spending outside of the big boys.

The money has been spent very poorly and poor decisions have been made at all levels of the club, of that there's no question, but if you're a manager out of work then a Premier League job with extremely low expectations, one of the biggest fanbases in the country, one of the biggest budgets outside of the usual suspects and superb facilities is very attractive. Get the team into the top half on a consistent basis and you'll be a hero FFS.

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Sunderland were blessed to stay up last year. Moyes will do a great job to keep them up this time around.

3 defeats in 19 games from January. 1 defeat in their last 11 which came against the champions. It was well deserved.

ctrl-alt-delete

Moyes is a great fit for Sunderland considering the current situation.

They can't afford to take another gamble as they have done with appointments previous to Allardyce with the start of the season being so close.

Moyes has proven Premier League experience and has a track record for what is the next step for Sunderland.

Moyes should be able to build upon what Allardyce started, the only worry would be how much money he gets and who he spends it on considering we are so close to the season starting.

Pawwed Rig

Paully D wrote: »

3 defeats in 19 games from January. 1 defeat in their last 11 which came against the champions. It was well deserved.

Which they had to do as they still only survived by the skin of their teeth.

Flint Fredstone

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Which they had to do as they still only survived by the skin of their teeth.

Their custard teeth?

holy guacamole

Just wondered what the general consensus is on Moyes now?

I appreciate we're only nine games in but if anything Sunderland are even worse than they were last season. Can't solely blame Moyes for that but I wonder if he has the self-confidence to impose himself on a set of players anymore, think the demons of his previous two jobs continue to haunt him.

As someone said earlier on this thread, he's a broken man at this stage and rightly or wrongly he's probably on the brink of the sack already.

Writing seemed on the wall when Sunderland ended the transfer window without bringing in anyone capable of lightening the goalscoring burden on Jermain Defoe, and that's been borne out by a fairly wretched start to the season.

On the bright side, Big Sam is available again now.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Great appointment for Sunderland.

I'd say their days of constantly flirting with relegation will be over, he seems like a safe pair of hands and will turn them into a solid mid table team.

I'd ignore his last 2 jobs as clearly Man Utd was a step too far for him (no shame in that) and he didn't seem fully committed to Sociedad.

What an absolute idiot you are, how could you ignore his last couple of jobs when evaluating his chances of being a success with Sunderland you complete gob****e.

Paully D

He is utterly, utterly ****ing ****e.

Ridiculous negativity in which he publically condemned us to a relegation battle after the 2nd game of the season, he spent £30m in 3 weeks including breaking the club's transfer record and he has essentially turned it into ashes, 1 point from games against West Brom, Palace, Middlesbrough, Stoke, West Ham, Southampton and Everton, ridiculous team selection and substitutes, constant negativity and down playing of expectations in the press.

He took over a team who had lost 1 game in 11 at the end of last season, 3 defeats in the last 19 from January, and a side that he didn't need to perform much surgery on. It was weaker than that one admittedly, but 3 solid additions would have seen him right and he had enough money at his disposal to get them in. It's not as if took over a bunch of no hopers with pennies to spend, despite what he is trying to make people think.

I can see why he was appointed and can understand it. We didn't have enough time to get someone in who was going to try and implement a completely new style of play just 3 weeks before the start of the season, but it's so completely clear that this isn't going to work out.

Give him the bullet tonight and give a new manager, whoever it may be, as much time as possible to try and fix this mess.

I would love Sam back but the way that ended, it won't be happening as long as Ellis Short is in charge of the club I would imagine.

holy guacamole

Paully D wrote: »

Ridiculous negativity in which he publically condemned us to a relegation battle after the 2nd game of the season, constant negativity and down playing of expectations in the press.

It's not as if took over a bunch of no hopers, despite what he is trying to make people think.

This was a common theme during his time at United.

As soon as results started to turn against him he started to talk about the size of the task Fergie had left him and how he'd inherited an ageing squad which needed major surgery - United were champions at the time.

His press conferences became peppered with phrases like "we'll make it difficult for them" and "we'll try our best", and then there was the infamous "we aspire to be like man city."

The only thing he's good at these days is blame-shifting and when he does get the boot it'll be everyone's fault but his own.

eh i dunno

I'd back him to keep Sunderland up even at this stage. Remember him having an equally bad start at Everton one year and he got us safe. Will never win a trophy because he's too negative but he's still a decent manager imo.

Richard Hillman

He is done. Get on the blower to Big Sam before somebody else does.

keeponhurling

Interesting article here on the Moyes appointment so far
http://www.football365.com/news/f365s-early-loser-david-moyes

"It takes something special to underwhelm a support that was already on its knees, but Moyes has pulled it off at Sunderland. "

A good line, and no better man than Moyes to keep dragging expectations down

Harry Palmr

Remarkable to consider that the next team not to win a game this season is Bradford Park Avenue AFC in the Vanarama National League North.