RTA. No injuries. Ok to leave?

goz83

Assuming all details are exchanged, is it ok to leave after an accident?

What if one person tries to leave but the other insists on calling and waiting on the gardai for "peace of mind"? Curious after reading another thread what the legalities are, especially if someone tried to force you to stay and blocked your way, or tried to physically restrain you.

I am of the belief that if there are no injuries and details are excahnged, you go your own way and dont waste the gardais time, or your own waiting on them.

foggy_lad

once there are no obvious injuries there is no reason to stay once details have been swapped.

If a driver insisted on the Gardai being called I would stick around though but make sure I had cleared my vehicle off the road as much as possible and then insist on the Gardai breath testing myself and the other driver.

coylemj

foggy_lad wrote: »

once there are no obvious injuries there is no reason to stay once details have been swapped.

If a driver insisted on the Gardai being called I would stick around though but make sure I had cleared my vehicle off the road as much as possible and then insist on the Gardai breath testing myself and the other driver.

+1 assuming no personal injuries.....

There is no obligation to wait for the Gardai (who may never show up) as long as you supply the other driver with the relevant details which includes (1) the name and address of the owner of your vehicle (2) your name and address and (3) details of your insurance.

I listen to the Dublin City FM (103.2 Mhz) radio station most afternoons, they do the traffic reports and its absolutely amazing how, after the most minor of collisions, both drivers keep their vehicles in the same spot and generally fcuk up traffic for miles behind them while they wait for the cops who typically never show up - why should they for a fender bender when it's never going to result in a criminal court case?

All the law (S.106 RTA 1961) requires is that you keep the vehicle 'at or near the place of the occurrence' so there's no reason why you can't pull over to the side of the road, exchange your details with the other guy and then drive away.

(b) the driver or other person in charge of the vehicle shall keep the vehicle at or near the place of the occurrence for a period which is reasonable in all the circumstances of the case and having regard to the provisions of this section;

Even if someone is injured, the only additional obligation is that you must report the accident to the Gardai but you are allowed to do that at a Garda station, there is no obligation to hang around waiting for them to arrive though its probably advisable to do so in those circumstances.

BaronVon

Gardaí only investigate collisions that involve:

1. Personal Injury
2. Substantial Damage
3. An offence is disclosed or alleged

Other than that, they'll just ensure particulars are exchanged as mentioned above, and gather info for statisical purposes. No need to call them for minor tips when details are exchanged.

darklighter

Is there not an offence of failing to remain at the scene of an accident? Or does that only apply to a certain category of crash?

Obviously the Gardai in 99.9999999999999% of cases arent going to prosecute if you drive off after a minor tip but the possibilty always remains if it is in fact an offence.

The Bishop Basher

Having been hit by an uninsured driver where there was substantial damage that wasn't obvious at the time, I would call the Guards out for ANY and EVERY prang.

They may consider it wasting their time but i don't.

Little CuChulainn

Swanner wrote: »

Having been hit by an uninsured driver where there was substantial damage that wasn't obvious at the time, I would call the Guards out for ANY and EVERY prang.

They may consider it wasting their time but i don't.

I hope you at least have the decency to move the cars off the road.

Swap contact and insurance details. Take a few photos. Agree who will report it at the station. Notify insurance. Go on your way.

The Bishop Basher

Depends..

I was €3000 out of pocket after the last incident...

That won't happen again..

If i have to inconvenience a few people to make sure it doesn't happen so be it..

jcd5971

Swanner wrote:

If i have to inconvenience a few people to make sure it doesn't happen so be it..

Nice mindset.

The Bishop Basher

jcd5971 wrote: »

Nice mindset.

Is what it is..

As i say, I won't be left €3k down ever again.

hullaballoo

Swanner wrote: »

Is what it is..

As i say, I won't be left €3k down ever again.

How would you go about getting the €3,000 back?

The Bishop Basher

hullaballoo wrote: »

How would you go about getting the €3,000 back?

I might not get all or any of it back but if that happens, at least the scrote will be dealt with by the gardai and hopefully won't have an opportunity to do the same thing to someone else.

Look, I'm not going to deliberately block traffic or get in anyone's way if i can help it. I will however do whatever I feel is necessary at the time to protect myself in the situation..

GM228

Swanner wrote: »

Depends..

I was €3000 out of pocket after the last incident...

That won't happen again..

If i have to inconvenience a few people to make sure it doesn't happen so be it..

Isn't that what MIBI is for, once the other vehicle is identified your free to move your own vehicle!

The Bishop Basher

GM228 wrote: »

once the other vehicle is identified your free to move your own vehicle!

Identified by whom though ?

I wouldn't be comfortable until both the vehicle an the driver had been identified by a guard.

I'd also be concerned that someone driving with no insurance may not be all that honest so i'd be reluctant to move anything until blame had been established.. again, by a Guard.

Insurance companies can and will regularly settle in favour of the least cost option regardless of blame so again, I would want to protect myself against that happening.

I'm going to hazard a guess here and suggest that none of you have been hit and burned by an uninsured driver.

I used to think like all of you. That's why i didn't call the guards at the time.

Nothing like a bit of real world experience to change your perception though.

Homer

How would the guards having not witnessed the accident apportion blame? Apart from obvious rear end situations.. A lot of times it comes down to both parties blaming each other. Guards generally won't get involved in a civil matter from apportioning blame point of view? Did the driver that hit you have ANY documents in the window or were they forged etc?

Little CuChulainn

Swanner wrote: »

Identified by whom though ?

I wouldn't be comfortable until both the vehicle an the driver had been identified by a guard.

I'd also be concerned that someone driving with no insurance may not be all that honest so i'd be reluctant to move anything until blame had been established.. again, by a Guard.

Insurance companies can and will regularly settle in favour of the least cost option regardless of blame so again, I would want to protect myself against that happening.

I'm going to hazard a guess here and suggest that none of you have been hit and burned by an uninsured driver.

I used to think like all of you. That's why i didn't call the guards at the time.

Nothing like a bit of real world experience to change your perception though.

Gardaí don't establish blame in material damage accidents. They simply help people swap details of they aren't capable of such a simple task. The insurance companies settle the claim.

goz83

Thanks for the replies lads. Some people on the other forum seem to think you have to stay at an accident scene until the gardai arrived, even if it a slight tip.

The Bishop Basher

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Gardaí don't establish blame in material damage accidents. They simply help people swap details of they aren't capable of such a simple task. The insurance companies settle the claim.

No need to get patronising..

Anyway, the damage appeared minor. We swapped details. For some reason he actually gave me his name and address. Everything else was forged but looked fine.

We both agreed there was no need to call the guards.

So i did what all of you say you would do. We exchanged details and left it at that.

It was only after the fact that i discovered the damage was far more substantial then it looked and that he had no insurance.

So tell me.. If you were in a similar situation.. How will you know that..

1) The damage isn't more substantial then it appears ?
2) The details your being given aren't false ?

TherapyBoy

Swanner wrote: »

1) The damage isn't more substantial then it appears ?
2) The details your being given aren't false ?

1) It's unlikely that the Gardaí would be able to access the damage to your car.
2) If he gave you false details, he'd probably give the Gardaí false info too.

Unless someone is hurt or the incident is particularly serious calling the Gardaí is unnecessary in most minor RTA. Take lots of photos, record as much information as you can about them & their car and cross your fingers it all goes smoothly.

bellissima

In the Driver Theory Test it does say that accidents ie,one presumes, incidents involving two or more vehicles should be reported to the Insurance companies and the Gardai (maybe the Gardai do not have to be contacted there and then). It's not very clear. Where property eg a fence or a wall has been damaged, it is sufficient to report to the owner alone. If vehicles are causing an obstruction,the road should be marked in the relevant places and the vehicles taken out of the way.

punisher5112

hullaballoo wrote: »

How would you go about getting the €3,000 back?

Mibi is where you have to lodge claim.

The Bishop Basher

TherapyBoy wrote: »

1) It's unlikely that the Gardaí would be able to access the damage to your car.

I never suggested they would

But knowing I at least have genuine contact and insurance details for the other driver should this become apparent after the fact, would give me huge piece of mind.

TherapyBoy wrote: »

2) If he gave you false details, he'd probably give the Gardaí false info too.

He could try but the guard will be able to confirm his name, address, vehicle ownership, insurance and tax there and then before anyone leaves the scene.

TherapyBoy wrote: »

Unless someone is hurt or the incident is particularly serious calling the Gardaí is unnecessary in most minor RTA. Take lots of photos, record as much information as you can about them & their car and cross your fingers it all goes smoothly.

How will you know for sure that no-one is hurt ? Injuries often aren't apparent at the time due to adrenalin. I know of a guy locally who dropped dead hours after a minor collision. He had internal bleeding caused by the seat belt but had seemed completely unhurt.

Also how do you define "particularly serious" ? And how do you know your definition of serious is the same as a guards definition of serious ? Or indeed, the same as the other drivers definition of "particularly serious".

DubTony

Swanner wrote: »

Having been hit by an uninsured driver where there was substantial damage that wasn't obvious at the time, I would call the Guards out for ANY and EVERY prang.

They may consider it wasting their time but i don't.

So if it happened again and he told you he wasn't hanging around waiting for cops, what would you do? He gives you details and drives off. Are you going to try to stop him?

Little CuChulainn

goz83 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies lads. Some people on the other forum seem to think you have to stay at an accident scene until the gardai arrived, even if it a slight tip.

No, you are obliged to exchange information and report the matter.

Swanner wrote: »

No need to get patronising..

Anyway, the damage appeared minor. We swapped details. For some reason he actually gave me his name and address. Everything else was forged but looked fine.

We both agreed there was no need to call the guards.

So i did what all of you say you would do. We exchanged details and left it at that.

It was only after the fact that i discovered the damage was far more substantial then it looked and that he had no insurance.

So tell me.. If you were in a similar situation.. How will you know that..

1) The damage isn't more substantial then it appears ?
2) The details your being given aren't false ?

1)How will the Garda know that?
2)You won't. Neither will the Garda until he goes back to the station and checks it.

The Bishop Basher

DubTony wrote: »

So if it happened again and he told you he wasn't hanging around waiting for cops, what would you do? He gives you details and drives off. Are you going to try to stop him?

Not much you can do in that situation. I'd get photos of him and his car but if he's gone before the guards arrive all i can do is give them what i have and let them follow up on it. I'm certainly not going to get into a physical confrontation but if my car was blocking him in I wouldn't be moving it.

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

1)How will the Garda know that?
2)You won't. Neither will the Garda until he goes back to the station and checks it.

The guard can confirm that the driver is who he says he is and that he has valid insurance before he leave the scene.

If he's not who he says he is and / or he doesn't have valid insurance then it's up to the guards to take it from there.

Little CuChulainn

Swanner wrote: »

The guard can confirm that the driver is who he says he is and that he has valid insurance before he leave the scene.

If he's not who he says he is and / or he doesn't have valid insurance then it's up to the guards to take it from there.

How would the Garda do that exactly?

hullaballoo

Swanner wrote: »

I might not get all or any of it back but if that happens, at least the scrote will be dealt with by the gardai and hopefully won't have an opportunity to do the same thing to someone else.

Look, I'm not going to deliberately block traffic or get in anyone's way if i can help it. I will however do whatever I feel is necessary at the time to protect myself in the situation..

GM228 wrote: »

Isn't that what MIBI is for, once the other vehicle is identified your free to move your own vehicle!

punisher5112 wrote: »

Mibi is where you have to lodge claim.

The MIBI don't cover material damage claims.

What I'm struggling to get past, though, is Swanner's attitude in relation to recovering damages. It seems entirely inconsistent.

It's ok where it's out-of-pocket expenses only, is it? It's not ok where you're injured?

It's funny that the law takes the opposite point of view.

The Bishop Basher

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

How would the Garda do that exactly?

By asking the driver for their details, checking their ID, confirming the given details on pulse etc. and asking further questions until satisfying themselves that all is correct.

They also have the ability to detain that person until such time as they're satisfied that all is correct.

As a joe blogs member of the public, all i can do is take pictures of potentially forged plates and documents and rely on the good nature and honesty of the uninsured person who's just driven into me.

hullaballoo wrote: »

What I'm struggling to get past, though, is Swanner's attitude in relation to recovering damages. It seems entirely inconsistent.

You've lost me Please explain..

Del2005

Swanner wrote: »

By asking the driver for their details, checking their ID, confirming the given details on pulse etc. and asking further questions until satisfying themselves that all is correct.

They also have the ability to detain that person until such time as they're satisfied that all is correct.

As a joe blogs member of the public, all i can do is take pictures of potentially forged plates and documents and rely on the good nature and honesty of the person who's just driven into me.



You've lost me Please explain..

For a minor RTA all the Garda will do is ask have details been exchanged and ask all involved to produce their documents within 10 at a station. The Garda have no way of verifying insurance details even at the station, all they do is photocopy what's presented. Until we get an insurance database, like the UK, your wasting a valuable resource on something minor that they can't do anything about.

The Bishop Basher

Del2005 wrote: »

For a minor RTA

So what's the definition of a "minor" RTA and where is it published ?

Del2005 wrote: »

The Garda have no way of verifying insurance details even at the station, all they do is photocopy what's presented. Until we get an insurance database, like the UK, your wasting a valuable resource on something minor that they can't do anything about.

I get all that but the guard can confirm the identity of the other driver. I can't. Once we have a name and address we can work from there regardless of details that emerge after the fact.

Without a guard present, i'm relying on an uninsured driver with forged documents who has just driven into me, damaged my vehicle and is personally liable for the costs, to give me his actual name and address.

Can you see the flaw in that plan ?

hullaballoo

Swanner wrote: »

You've lost me Please explain..

I don't understand why you think it is perfectly acceptable to seek to recover damages where the only injury you have is to your pocket but in circumstances where your very quality of life is negatively impacted by a lasting physical injury, you have absolutely no right to claim on the basis of your moral compass?