Slow Play?

moycullen14

Fair play to Monty

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/golf/monty-s-final-round-march-refreshing-in-the-day-of-golfing-slow-coaches-1.2725265

razorblunt

moycullen14 wrote: »

Fair play to Monty

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/golf/monty-s-final-round-march-refreshing-in-the-day-of-golfing-slow-coaches-1.2725265

Does the marker have to play out the holes though? From reading the Porteus round recap I got the impression he'd pick up if he was slowing the competitor down?

Boskowski

moycullen14 wrote: »

Fair play to Monty

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/golf/monty-s-final-round-march-refreshing-in-the-day-of-golfing-slow-coaches-1.2725265

Ye true but he also finished dead last.
I'm not saying his pace was the reason for finishing last but I don't think he cared much for what his score was going to be.

So while it's nice I don't think the speed of the first pair of the day with a free run and no score to care about is the yard stick for pace of play in pro golf.

Domo1982

Boskowski wrote: »

Ye true but he also finished dead last.
I'm not saying his pace was the reason for finishing last but I don't think he cared much for what his score was going to be.

So while it's nice I don't think the speed of the first pair of the day with a free run and no score to care about is the yard stick for pace of play in pro golf.

Bit of a cheap shot at aul Monty there. No need and poor form.

And he didn't finish dead last actually - probably best to check your facts before you post

FixdePitchmark

I made that point yesterday. But there are many supporters in the amateur game of slow play.

I think the R&A have improved things - in fact, there was word at one point that the last group were told to catch up - if true, that is great news. If even, I would say a little over the top for a final group in a major. But I guess they are saying no excuses no matter who you are or when it is. Stay up with group in front - simple.

It seems the message is getting through and I think last group were just under 4 hours ? (they were 1hr55 for front) - which is good going for a final pair in a major.

I'd let a major go - but around a links course like that, a 2 ball should be making 3 hours (easy) - they are not carrying clubs and playing tee to green golf. There is no looking for balls etc.

They will have to take a little bit of time off the allowance for a stroke.
I'd be a bit more radical with rules on reading greens - but , I know that would cause aneurysms in even the weekend golfer.

Still way too long. With the read - read again - read from other side - caddy read- check note book - read again - practice stroke - practice stroke. Not on.
You can excuse pros shooting a 63 to a degree - but the problem is this filtering into our game.

Just be a bit rootless about it.

Was behind a 2 ball today - a disgrace , they were losing ground to a 4 ball ahead , men in their 60s / 70s ahead putting them to shame.

Boskowski

@ domo You're reading something into my post that isn't there. I don't mind monty really although I admit I used to like him not too much, but he has mellowed a bit. Used to be a bit of a git on commentary but lately he's grand. Certainly a lovely natural swing golfer and a big time champ.

I'm really only commenting on the issue. He was going out first and he shot himself out of anything the day before. That was the reason why he started first and of course it helps going around real quick when there is no one in front and you're not scrambling your damnest for a score.

Again, not sure where you read a cheap shot at him into my post.

Trampas

Monty wanted to play with beemer but I guess the R & A said no.

Boskowski

Trampas wrote: »

Monty wanted to play with beemer but I guess the R & A said no.

Ye I heard them joking about it the day before I think. 'See you 7:40 then'. But I was watching on and off with pause etc I'm not sure when exactly that was said.
Would have loved to watched that I must say. Pity, but I'm sure there were reasons.

Anyhow. Not in reply to you but generally speaking; I think we can all play in 2:45 in a two ball if nothing goes wrong much and we're never held up, I'd say faster even.
And I also agree that those 5 hour rounds from the pros shouldn't be a model for kids. Or anyone. At all.
But I thought it was a bit harsh if it was true that Mickelson and Stenson were told to keep it up. These guys were playing major record equalling low rounds in the final pair of the final day of the Open. Of course they don't rush things.

FixdePitchmark

Boskowski wrote: »

Ye I heard them joking about it the day before I think. 'See you 7:40 then'. But I was watching on and off with pause etc I'm not sure when exactly that was said.
Would have loved to watched that I must say. Pity, but I'm sure there were reasons.

Anyhow. Not in reply to you but generally speaking; I think we can all play in 2:45 in a two ball if nothing goes wrong much and we're never held up, I'd say faster even.
And I also agree that those 5 hour rounds from the pros shouldn't be a model for kids. Or anyone. At all.
But I thought it was a bit harsh if it was true that Mickelson and Stenson were told to keep it up. These guys were playing major record equalling low rounds in the final pair of the final day of the Open. Of course they don't rush things.

But - taking a long time over a shot - has it been proved it actually improves scores ?

The main problem is additional routine elements coming into a pros shot - that is in series to older routines, then they only start every aspect of their shot when the other ball has landed. Crazy stuff.

Padraig Harrington is the perfect example - his routine has just become more and more complex and annoying and he has disimproved as a putter.

You have got the likes of scott doing aimpoint over 3 foot putts - also this new penonemium of checking notes/green notes in routine should be banned out of the park. You can do it - but not during shot.
Scott - did aimpoint over a 3 foot then checked notes after - seriously.

3 hours - should be target , easy to do. These are guys in 2 balls - and only taking full 36 strokes of the ball each.

It is just they were let get out of control for too long - but bring back in control.

Big improvements so far at 4 hours - but a round of golf should be 3 in 2 balls.

Hoof Hearted2

What a load of attention grabbing bollix, the IT is now leaving the red tops behind with this kind of drivel!

Keano

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

What a load of attention grabbing bollix, the IT is now leaving the red tops behind with this kind of drivel!

Wonderful contribution. If you've nothing to add then do not post again in this thread. Thanks

Ben1977

My 2 pence worth. Played last Friday evening in a 3 ball strokes comp. No one in front, completed in 3:10. The difference for me was, we didn't have to search for one ball during the hole round. On the home course that's rare as the hay is now very high. What I don't understand from the pros is, there are marshals who spot there balls. Unless they hit it off the radar, they don't need to search for 5 minutes.
They walk slow and take an age on the greens. Why on earth did everyone of them stop and have a discussion with their caddy on the first? They all new the wind direction and had a game plan? The world match play really showed me how mad it has got. Jason Day during the semi final took an age for everything. I think he was even slower just to put his partner off.

Jawgap

I've never really understood why pros are quite slow - which is a relative term I know.

Our place has been doing a bit of work to nudge people along and have been tracking and reporting on times (with no names, but just to encourage people to consider their golfing 'behaviour')

Yesterday myself and partner played 18 holes of strokes in just under 3 hrs (we're very much mid-handicappers) - the pair behind were a sniff over 3 hrs only because they lost one on the second last hole (both were low handicappers).

With their skill levels, the information at their disposal and the assistance of marshals and spectators I don't see the justification for rounds taking much over 4 hours, and should be significantly less.

fred funk }{

Roughly, on average, how long should a 2 ball, 3 ball and a 4 ball take to do 18 holes?

The Rape of Lucretia

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Roughly, on average, how long should a 2 ball, 3 ball and a 4 ball take to do 18 holes?

Impossible to say with any accuracy. Length of course and difficulty are a big factor - you will play a 5800yd course faster than a 7200yd rough lines course. Skill of the golfer, is it a casual round, stroke comp, stableford, matchplay, playingwell/playingbadly, weather, etc.

And even within that, most players will have varying paces from round to round. When its 'not their day' and they are heading for 27 points with no great interest they will let things go, play faster, not be as deliberate over the tricky putt, not take their 5 mins to look for a ball. But same situation another day, and he is in the hunt for a good score or win, he will be slower (and in the former case, possibly bitching about how slow others are playing when he just wants to get to the club house asap - in the latter, will be justifying slowing down by saying well usually he is a quick player, and just this once he is going to take an extra moment).

As a rule of thumb though, and to enjoy your golf, best to go out with no expectations of beating 4 3/4 hours for a 4-ball, 4 hrs for a 3-ball, and 3 1/2 hrs for a 3-ball. If you expect less you will may be frustrated. Accept those, and your golfing life will be more enjoyable.

alxmorgan

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Impossible to say with any accuracy. Length of course and difficulty are a big factor - you will play a 5800yd course faster than a 7200yd rough lines course. Skill of the golfer, is it a casual round, stroke comp, stableford, matchplay, playingwell/playingbadly, weather, etc.

And even within that, most players will have varying paces from round to round. When its 'not their day' and they are heading for 27 points with no great interest they will let things go, play faster, not be as deliberate over the tricky putt, not take their 5 mins to look for a ball. But same situation another day, and he is in the hunt for a good score or win, he will be slower (and in the former case, possibly bitching about how slow others are playing when he just wants to get to the club house asap - in the latter, will be justifying slowing down by saying well usually he is a quick player, and just this once he is going to take an extra moment).

As a rule of thumb though, and to enjoy your golf, best to go out with no expectations of beating 4 3/4 hours for a 4-ball, 4 hrs for a 3-ball, and 3 1/2 hrs for a 3-ball. If you expect less you will may be frustrated. Accept those, and your golfing life will be more enjoyable.

Madness. Accept this and you are part of the problem. 4 hours for a 4 ball is well achievable and should be the aim IMHO.

Dayor Knight

Boskowski wrote: »

Ye true but he also finished dead last.
I'm not saying his pace was the reason for finishing last but I don't think he cared much for what his score was going to be.

So while it's nice I don't think the speed of the first pair of the day with a free run and no score to care about is the yard stick for pace of play in pro golf.

And he was possibly rushing back for commentating duties. No issue there but it's part of the context for his artificiality superfast round.

Hoof Hearted2

Keano wrote: »

Wonderful contribution. If you've nothing to add then do not post again in this thread. Thanks

Probably the best one in the thread, after yours of course!!!;):pac:

Boskowski

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

...

As a rule of thumb though, and to enjoy your golf, best to go out with no expectations of beating 4 3/4 hours for a 4-ball, 4 hrs for a 3-ball, and 3 1/2 hrs for a 3-ball. If you expect less you will may be frustrated. Accept those, and your golfing life will be more enjoyable.

alxmorgan wrote: »

Madness. Accept this and you are part of the problem. 4 hours for a 4 ball is well achievable and should be the aim IMHO.

Just as a guideline - other factors have been mentioned - and assuming 'proper' competition play I'd be more along the lines of 4 ball around 4 hrs, 3 ball 3.5 hrs, 2 ball 3 hrs. All that with +- 15 mins.

But I'd agree with saying that while thats a very easily achievable guideline you shouldn't get frustrated if it doesn't turn out that way. The one thing I hate even more than slow play is the guy that's bitching about 'the fkn pace today' through the entire 18 holes starting on the 2nd.

Sometimes its beyond anyones control as every little delay accumulates back through the field. This can easily happen in big comp stroke play rounds. No point in making everyones round a misery by being like a demon at every tee box.

First Up

alxmorgan wrote:

Madness. Accept this and you are part of the problem. 4 hours for a 4 ball is well achievable and should be the aim IMHO.

Totally agree. Anything over 4.15 should trigger a sanction.

BOB81

First Up wrote: »

Totally agree. Anything over 4.15 should trigger a sanction.

I'd be all for encouraging quicker play and some form of sanction for repeat offenders is not a bad idea (of course policing it requires some thought!).

Having moved clubs this year (from moyvalley to knightsbrook) its been an eye opener (and a pleasure) for me to be able to play a fourball stableford in 4 hrs - it just never happened in moyvalley and for strokeplay you were often talking 5 hrs which is too long.

But for me the quicker pace of play between the 2 courses is almost entirely due to the course layout/set-up (although a lot of the members I've met in knightsbrook do tend to play "ready golf" which helps a bit). Knightsbrook is much easier to find golf balls off the tee (the moyvalley rough is OTT in some spots), is a shorter walk between tees (for the most part) and is generally a more friendly layout - though they are both long courses at over well over 7000 yds off the back tees. So sometimes the course itself is at the root cause of slow play - which unpalatable as it is means you have to accept it to a certain extent.

alxmorgan

Boskowski wrote: »

Just as a guideline - other factors have been mentioned - and assuming 'proper' competition play I'd be more along the lines of 4 ball around 4 hrs, 3 ball 3.5 hrs, 2 ball 3 hrs. All that with +- 15 mins.

But I'd agree with saying that while thats a very easily achievable guideline you shouldn't get frustrated if it doesn't turn out that way. The one thing I hate even more than slow play is the guy that's bitching about 'the fkn pace today' through the entire 18 holes starting on the 2nd.

Sometimes its beyond anyones control as every little delay accumulates back through the field. This can easily happen in big comp stroke play rounds. No point in making everyones round a misery by being like a demon at every tee box.

I agree with the overall sentiment but 4 hour rounds becoming 4 3/4 hour rounds are not beyond anyones control....someone has to be causing it. And usually the issue is a refusal to call through. I know you can't do it all the time. But chances are if you are having to do it all the time then your group is slow.

And my big issue is starting out with an acceptance of 4 3/4.....that is setting us all up for slow rounds.

Jawgap

I think more clubs could do with implementing some parts the pace of play guidelines prepared by the R&A, especially the bits relating to setting a 'time par' for each hole so players can see if themselves if they are playing at a reasonable place.

It's a complicated issue, but, for example, something to come out of the efforts in our place to address it was the problem caused by groups setting off before their allotted time and the congestion that can cause.

Incidentally, I've a game coming up soon with a notorious slow player......not looking forward to it!

alxmorgan

Jawgap wrote: »

I think more clubs could do with implementing some parts the pace of play guidelines prepared by the R&A, especially the bits relating to setting a 'time par' for each hole so players can see if themselves if they are playing at a reasonable place.

It's a complicated issue, but, for example, something to come out of the efforts in our place to address it was the problem caused by groups setting off before their allotted time and the congestion that can cause.

Incidentally, I've a game coming up soon with a notorious slow player......not looking forward to it!

Would be interested if you came back here and posted what happened. Did it end up being slow ? If so what caused it in terms of what he was doing or not doing ?

I believe clubs could do more. Emails telling you to keep up with the group in front are well and good but more how would be better. Simple bullet points on the first hole and elsewhere would help:

• Play ready golf
• If in doubt hit a provisional
• When searching for balls let the first up to play hit in and then start to search
• Mark your cards on the next tee and if its your turn first remember : ready golf
• Leave bags on exit side of green
• Keep an eye on your playing partners ball

etc etc

Not rocket science but the amount of people that don't do this

cgh

well to add to this,

Played in the Captains Prize in Portarlington on Sunday.
strokes and we went out in 4 balls.

5 hours 5 minutes.

needless to say I couldn't get any proper rhythm going and played terrible. we waited on so many tee boxes and fairways to play.
utter madness.

on the other side played the second day of the Captains in the Heritage. 3 hours 45 minutes for a 3 ball stableford, we spent a bit of time too looking for balls and was quite enjoyable.

alxmorgan

cgh wrote: »

well to add to this,

Played in the Captains Prize in Portarlington on Sunday.
strokes and we went out in 4 balls.

5 hours 5 minutes.

needless to say I couldn't get any proper rhythm going and played terrible. we waited on so many tee boxes and fairways to play.
utter madness.

on the other side played the second day of the Captains in the Heritage. 3 hours 45 minutes for a 3 ball stableford, we spent a bit of time too looking for balls and was quite enjoyable.

4 player stroke in a captains is madness. Just asking for long rounds.

The Rape of Lucretia

cgh wrote: »

needless to say I couldn't get any proper rhythm going and played terrible. we waited on so many tee boxes and fairways to play.
utter madness.

Thats nonsense, and just making up excuses. Where would people be if they couldnt ascribe their bad golf to the 'slow' play of others?
Rhythm ? WTF ? Rhythm of time between hitting shots doesnt exist.

The Rape of Lucretia

alxmorgan wrote: »

4 player stroke in a captains is madness. Just asking for long rounds.

Whats wrong with long rounds ? Thats what people want if thats the time they took. They were enjoying playing their captains prize, taking a bit of extra care, trying their best to have a shot at it. The 'problem' of slow play is the creeping virus in the game of people whinging about it, having unrealistic expectations for the time it takes to play a rounds, the superiority complex of quicker players who feel entitled to demand that they are the 'correct' players and everyone else should play at the pace they dictate.
There is a French prime minister who said something along the lines of there being no problem too big enough that cant be solved by virtue of there being no solution to it. Accept the pace of golf. Problem evaporates. People enjoy their golf (but have one less thing to bitch about or convince themselves is the cause of their poor play).

death1234567

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Thats what people want if thats the time they took.

What a load of BS. Standing on a tee box waiting for the group in front of you to play their second isn't what people want or their choice. It only takes one group of people like you to ruin a days golf for the rest of us.

Boskowski

I wouldn't be quite in your bracket in saying that anything is acceptable. However, I do agree that there is also a problem with people focusing solely on getting around as quickly as possible. I'd side with you in saying that golf is a game that takes quite a while, several hours in fact, and who cares whether it takes 3:15 or 3:45, just enjoy the game instead of looking for something to be bitching about. Captain's Day may just take 5 hours, so what? You're waiting for a couple of minutes on the tee box? Big deal. Light up a cigarette or have a banana, have a chat with your playing partners. Maybe golf isn't for you if that's cracking you up then?
And it's not just golf, it's crept into every aspect of life, the idea of permanent urgency and that we're always hurrying to some sort of goal line. F*** that. A) it doesn't actually make a difference to anyone, it doesn't help, rarely ever, with anything and C) you make your life a misery. It's not worth it. Sigar, sigar...

cgh

building a Rhythm is not BS either,
I would reckon everyone here would like to tee off on a hole, let the rest of the group tee off.
walk up to their balls, have a look at the lie and whats ahead, pick a club, have a practice swing if they are so inclined and hit their next shot.
not tee off after waiting 5 minutes, get to the ball and wait another 5 minutes. then wait 10 minutes whilst the group in front walk the green and look at putts from every angle.

that's whats wrong with a long round

Jawgap

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Whats wrong with long rounds ? Thats what people want if thats the time they took. They were enjoying playing their captains prize, taking a bit of extra care, trying their best to have a shot at it. The 'problem' of slow play is the creeping virus in the game of people whinging about it, having unrealistic expectations for the time it takes to play a rounds, the superiority complex of quicker players who feel entitled to demand that they are the 'correct' players and everyone else should play at the pace they dictate.
There is a French prime minister who said something along the lines of there being no problem too big enough that cant be solved by virtue of there being no solution to it. Accept the pace of golf. Problem evaporates. People enjoy their golf (but have one less thing to bitch about or convince themselves is the cause of their poor play).

Eh? Maybe I'm missing something but if you are held up through no fault of your own and as a consequence your round takes 4 hours, 4.5 hours or getting on for 5 hours how you can you say you 'wanted' to play that slow?

Slow play is a blight on the game. Some people like to take their time, savour the experience or whatever - that's fine. But play further down the timesheet, if that's your preference.

Some others - I include myself - enjoy their golf but have lives to live so the idea of leaving the house for an 0730 teetime and not getting back until 1300 is very disruptive. I prefer to go, play my round and be back mid-morning and cram some other activities into the day. If it takes too long (for me) then I'd probably play less often - if my frequency of play dropped to a certain level, I'd probably drop my membership, and I suspect I'm not the only one who would be thinking that way.

Likewise, people with family commitments value a quicker game - now, you can poo-poo that idea, but frankly unless there's younger players coming into and sticking with the game clubs will suffer, the age profile will shift even more and it'll become more of a minority and exclusive game than it is already.

Boskowski

death1234567 wrote: »

What a load of BS. Standing on a tee box waiting for the group in front of you to play their second isn't what people want or their choice. It only takes one group of people like you to ruin a days golf for the rest of us.

I'm not advocating slow golf, but really? Ruining your golf? Do you have the right attitude for the game?

Boskowski

Jawgap wrote: »

...

Some others - I include myself - enjoy their golf but have lives to live so the idea of leaving the house for an 0730 teetime and not getting back until 1300 is very disruptive. I prefer to go, play my round and be back mid-morning and cram some other activities into the day. If it takes too long (for me) then I'd probably play less often - if my frequency of play dropped to a certain level, I'd probably drop my membership, and I suspect I'm not the only one who would be thinking that way.

That life we have to live, isn't playing a game of golf one of the best bits of it really?

Jawgap

Boskowski wrote: »

That life we have to live, isn't playing a game of golf at a reasonable pace one of the best bits of it really?

FYP......and yes

I suppose, I wouldn't really drop my membership but if pace of play became an issue for me, I'd probably play in fewer comps and get out before the timesheet

BraveDonut

I've posted this here before but I definitely think that a lot of the problem is that while most golfers are aware of the issue of slow play, they are not aware that they are slow themselves and contributing to the issue.

I would often say "Look lads, we've lost a bit of ground and need to catch up with the group in front" only to be ignored.

I have also occasionally engaged a slow player in a coverstaion about slow play in general during a round only for them to agree that it is disgraceful and that something should be done about it :rolleyes:

alxmorgan

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Whats wrong with long rounds ? Thats what people want if thats the time they took. They were enjoying playing their captains prize, taking a bit of extra care, trying their best to have a shot at it. The 'problem' of slow play is the creeping virus in the game of people whinging about it, having unrealistic expectations for the time it takes to play a rounds, the superiority complex of quicker players who feel entitled to demand that they are the 'correct' players and everyone else should play at the pace they dictate.
There is a French prime minister who said something along the lines of there being no problem too big enough that cant be solved by virtue of there being no solution to it. Accept the pace of golf. Problem evaporates. People enjoy their golf (but have one less thing to bitch about or convince themselves is the cause of their poor play).

Nothing wrong with long rounds if that's your preference. But don't subject everyone else to them. Let them play through. Stay out there for 10 hours if you want.

You say that's what people want. That's what some, and I would say vast minority, want.

And this thing about quicker players is a red herring mostly. I am not advocating lads running around the course or not relaxing and enjoying themselves. I just think all of this can be done in a reasonable time within the context of what is going on. I accept a big event like the captains may take more time hence I think the setup was wrong - 4 balls in a scenario like this is asking for very long rounds.

And you say unrealistic expectations...most course these days lay out the expectations on the card or on the course. And they are in line with 4 hour 4 balls.

alxmorgan

Boskowski wrote: »

I wouldn't be quite in your bracket in saying that anything is acceptable. However, I do agree that there is also a problem with people focusing solely on getting around as quickly as possible. I'd side with you in saying that golf is a game that takes quite a while, several hours in fact, and who cares whether it takes 3:15 or 3:45, just enjoy the game instead of looking for something to be bitching about. Captain's Day may just take 5 hours, so what? You're waiting for a couple of minutes on the tee box? Big deal. Light up a cigarette or have a banana, have a chat with your playing partners. Maybe golf isn't for you if that's cracking you up then?
And it's not just golf, it's crept into every aspect of life, the idea of permanent urgency and that we're always hurrying to some sort of goal line. F*** that. A) it doesn't actually make a difference to anyone, it doesn't help, rarely ever, with anything and C) you make your life a misery. It's not worth it. Sigar, sigar...

I get to thinking about this issue and it reminds me of a scene from Die Hard...if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. I applaud a laid back attitude but the issue with this is that it is enabling the slow players.

We would not accept it in other sports so why golf ? If I was playing soccer on a Sunday morning and the ref took a 25 min half time break I wouldn't be ok with it and I'm imagine most wouldn't either.

Take your time...absolutely but if you lose ground on the group in front try to catch up and if you can't let the crew behind through. Exceptions to this may occur in cases of uneven numbered playing groups or the speed golfers (again I reckon vast minority)

AGC

alxmorgan wrote: »

Would be interested if you came back here and posted what happened. Did it end up being slow ? If so what caused it in terms of what he was doing or not doing ?

I believe clubs could do more. Emails telling you to keep up with the group in front are well and good but more how would be better. Simple bullet points on the first hole and elsewhere would help:

• Play ready golf
• If in doubt hit a provisional
• When searching for balls let the first up to play hit in and then start to search
• Mark your cards on the next tee and if its your turn first remember : ready golf
• Leave bags on exit side of green
• Keep an eye on your playing partners ball

etc etc

Not rocket science but the amount of people that don't do this

Exactly.

Personally I do not think enough is being done, played 1 championship so far this year and a couple of scratch cups. It is a massive problem. Played 1 particular round with 2 lads 1 who was in college and we held up a 4/5 groups behind us constantly.

Every shot they waited, it was said to him by us in his group and the groups behind let us (and particularly him) know about it.

Myself and 3rd member of group said it following the round and nothing was done about it in the second round and the same carry on again. He was a decent young fella to talk to but clear as day that it doesn't bother him and nothing has been done to encourage him to speed up like penalties.

I have no enjoyment being in a slow group because I am constantly looking behind, the issue can also be caused by fast players, especially in club competitions. You find the same groups playing together week in week out who almost run around the course and are up the a**e of whatever group are in front of them.

HighLine

alxmorgan wrote: »

Would be interested if you came back here and posted what happened. Did it end up being slow ? If so what caused it in terms of what he was doing or not doing ?

I believe clubs could do more. Emails telling you to keep up with the group in front are well and good but more how would be better. Simple bullet points on the first hole and elsewhere would help:

• Play ready golf
• If in doubt hit a provisional
• When searching for balls let the first up to play hit in and then start to search
• Mark your cards on the next tee and if its your turn first remember : ready golf
• Leave bags on exit side of green
• Keep an eye on your playing partners ball

etc etc

Not rocket science but the amount of people that don't do this

That's all well and good but how do you address ridiculous individual practices that really slow a game down. Some of the following couldn't really be addressed however much I would love them to be...
> There is no need to take 10 practice swings before your stroke. This is just silly.
> Whilst you're addressing the ball and getting your mind mentally prepared to initiate the take away, if your playing partners can say a decade of the rosary, then that's a problem.
> You do not need to spend 2 minutes reading a putt from every angle possible.
> Leave your stupid poker chip marker for the casino... if it's anywhere near my line I will ask you to move it and that wastes time.

The Rape of Lucretia

HighLine wrote: »

> There is no need to take 10 practice swings before your stroke. This is just silly.

Which is why it doesnt happen.

HighLine wrote: »

> Whilst you're addressing the ball and getting your mind mentally prepared to initiate the take away, if your playing partners can say a decade of the rosary, then that's a problem.

Fortunately, that doesnt happen either.

HighLine wrote: »

> You do not need to spend 2 minutes reading a putt from every angle possible.

Thats why we never see someone do it.

HighLine wrote: »

> Leave your stupid poker chip marker for the casino... if it's anywhere near my line I will ask you to move it and that wastes time.

Stop wasting people's time then. Just putt on.

FixdePitchmark

I know some of my ideas are out there - so I will put down my 1st choice and the way I like to see people play
And a 2nd choice - what could actually get support.

HighLine wrote: »

> There is no need to take 10 practice swings before your stroke. This is just silly.
1st) I would ban - yes ban practice swings.
2nd) Only one maybe 2 practice swings on a full shot - 3 on a putt.

> Whilst you're addressing the ball and getting your mind mentally prepared to initiate the take away, if your playing partners can say a decade of the rosary, then that's a problem.
1st) 10 seconds to get ready - 10 seconds to hit. 20 total.
2nd) 15 and 15.

> You do not need to spend 2 minutes reading a putt from every angle possible.
1st) you may only read from behind ball - that is it. 10 seconds to read - 10 seconds to hit. You may stand in a position prior or read prior to your turn - but at your turn 10 seconds.
2nd) 15 and 15


> Leave your stupid poker chip marker for the casino... if it's anywhere near my line I will ask you to move it and that wastes time.

Not a real issue for me - but it is unacceptable to mark a 1 foot putt and even worse to read it

The Rape of Lucretia

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I know some of my ideas are out there - so I will put down my 1st choice and the way I like to see people play
And a 2nd choice - what could actually get support.

Would you not prefer to just go to the range? Hit 80 balls. Can be done in 10 minutes I guess with an automated tee and if you dont dawdle. Back in the car and on your way before the engine has even cooled.

FixdePitchmark

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Which is why it doesnt happen.

Fortunately, that doesnt happen either.


Thats why we never see someone do it.


Stop wasting people's time then. Just putt on.

Jaysus - I'd love to play with you all the time - I see all of above.

Do you play with the same lads all the time ?

FixdePitchmark

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Would you not prefer to just go to the range? Hit 80 balls. Can be done in 10 minutes I guess with an automated tee and if you dont dawdle. Back in the car and on your way before the engine has even cooled.

No I'd like to play in 3 hours - as typically I do , have lunch, a pint, a chat after.

Not be out with Poulter trouser lads - hanging in there for the European tour off about a 8 to 15 handicap.

HighLine

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

1st) 10 seconds to get ready - 10 seconds to hit. 20 total.
2nd) 15 and 15.

I would go even further than 10. Count it out in your head and imagine someone addressing the ball for 10 seconds... I would knock the ball down every time if I had to wait that long.

dennyire

HighLine wrote: »

That's all well and good but how do you address ridiculous individual practices that really slow a game down. Some of the following couldn't really be addressed however much I would love them to be...
> There is no need to take 10 practice swings before your stroke. This is just silly.
> Whilst you're addressing the ball and getting your mind mentally prepared to initiate the take away, if your playing partners can say a decade of the rosary, then that's a problem.
> You do not need to spend 2 minutes reading a putt from every angle possible.
> Leave your stupid poker chip marker for the casino... if it's anywhere near my line I will ask you to move it and that wastes time.

Whats with the stupid poker chip? I dont use one but I use a lucky old one punt coin which is always a talking point wit younger players....and as for moving it.....I dont see much difference in moving that to moving a marker size of 50 cent?

HighLine

dennyire wrote: »

Whats with the stupid poker chip? I dont use one but I use a lucky old one punt coin which is always a talking point wit younger players....and as for moving it.....I dont see much difference in moving that to moving a marker size of 50 cent?

I see it all the time. If someone has a big and bulky poker chip marker and it is anywhere near someone's putt line, he/she will always be asked to move it.

Doesn't happen with a small and thin proper marker.

dennyire

HighLine wrote: »

I see it all the time. If someone has a big and bulky poker chip marker and it is anywhere near someone's putt line, he/she will always be asked to move it.

Doesn't happen with a small and thin proper marker.

From my experience it happens with ever marker from the little push in ones on yoyur cap to a poker chip.....if marker is anywhere near line....request...please move one putter head left or right...doesnt matter if its a 1 cent coin or a a frisbee

dennyire

Frisbee = deliberate exagerration

FixdePitchmark

HighLine wrote: »

I would go even further than 10. Count it out in your head and imagine someone addressing the ball for 10 seconds... I would knock the ball down every time if I had to wait that long.

I'm trying to be somewhat conciliatory.

Some guys are from 30 to 40 seconds. So 10 seconds would be a major improvement.

Now when you are looking at a guy that freezes - it looks way longer than you think, due to the frustration they are causing internally for others. Typically they have a pause for only 10 to 15 seconds - but it just looks an age , because normal people take about 5 seconds.

I think slow play is ultimately a selfish act. You are imposing your will on the minority. After all above, I think the biggest cause of slow play is a lack of actual purpose - you often see an incredible change in pace in a 2 ball when say a single player catches up with them. But in a 4 ball statistically that lack of purpose is more likely and it is just a nightmare. I genuinely think there is no place for 4 balls in any golf ( I know one of my things there)

I think The Rape of Lucretia's point of raising the French is an interesting comparison.

It is sort of a French thing - say some lads lose a hole and do nothing about it, they are sort of saying well **** the rest of them - we will accept this is our pace. It is very French alright. But, you are in Ireland and people are pragmatic and generally fast at doing things when appropriate. It is about an ethos, about an atmosphere in a club. The older guys in our club believe you should never be out on the course for over 4 hours - it is not tolerated.

I accept course design is a big factor - but if your course is the cause of 4.5 hour rounds all the time - I'm sorry, but your at the wrong course. Amateurs are not good enough and golf takes too long to be putting 5.5 hours into it - with travel etc.

Golf was genuinely a game you got out, played quickly came in for lunch.

After all that - I am a lad that accepts if play is slow, it is slow - you can't let it ruin your day. But if play is slow for the wrong reasons , change the reasons. It would be a bit Irish to keep making the same mistakes.

I have yet to meet a person who likes playing with a slow player.

I have also come across very aggressive fast players and they are arseholes too.

It is just too many people copying what the pros are doing, the pros have set this tone - so it is only right the the pro associations sort it out.

It is comical to see high handicap players even lower, that go out only once a week, never practice - gps - laser - ask a few people what they think distance is - then - wait till all around are finished - take 3 practice swings - visualize shot - stand over it - pause - do a sort of breathing exercise - bang it 15 yards right and short - then tell all around about the ins and outs of the shot - then for some strange reason take an age to get the club in the bag and just won't bleeding walk - then walk horribly slow - then when you get to the green the real fun starts. ---- don't get me started - on greens a good tip for these guys - just look and hit, all that other stuff is not making a difference......