Getting a survey on a property

intheclouds

Looking at houses recently and I see plenty of comments on here that any offer should be subject to survey.

What exactly is a survey? What does it cover?

Who do you get to do a survey? Where do you find them?

Is it an engineer? A builder?

How much do they cost typically?

Santy2015

intheclouds wrote: »

Looking at houses recently and I see plenty of comments on here that any offer should be subject to survey.

What exactly is a survey? What does it cover?

Who do you get to do a survey? Where do you find them?

Is it an engineer? A builder?

How much do they cost typically?

Hi, you do a survey once you go sale agreed on a property. You sticking with the sale is subject to survey. If you're not happy you get your booking deposit back and move on. This would be an extreme circumstance though. I paid €350 cash for mine. They do vary between €300/€500 from what I've seen

Santy2015

intheclouds wrote: »

Looking at houses recently and I see plenty of comments on here that any offer should be subject to survey.

What exactly is a survey? What does it cover?

Who do you get to do a survey? Where do you find them?

Is it an engineer? A builder?

How much do they cost typically?

It's a structural survey of the house internal and external walls. It's a engineer that will carry it out and then write up a report for you.

Gumbo

Santy2015 wrote: »

It's a structural survey of the house internal and external walls. It's a engineer that will carry it out and then write up a report for you.

And just to point out, we cannot carry out a proper structural survey until you own the house. We cannot open up an walls, removed any fittings or plasterboard etc without the current owners consent.

A structural survey at pre-purchase stage is just visual inspection only.

RosieJoe

Santy2015 wrote: »

It's a structural survey of the house internal and external walls. It's a engineer that will carry it out and then write up a report for you.

Is this also covered by the Bank's valuation? I presume your own survey would be more in depth though.

intheclouds

Thanks for the info.

Where does one find someone who does surveys?

Hazydays123

intheclouds wrote: »

Thanks for the info.

Where does one find someone who does surveys?

Well obviously you can google one in your area. I'd say most people go by word of mouth though. Coincidentally I had a survey carried out recently by a really excellent surveyor and I'd be happy to recommend him to you via pm if you want.
You'd have to be Dublin based though.
I've been hearing a lot recently that many surveyors are booked out well in advance and charging at what i'd consider to be the upper limits of normal.
Apparently the property market is booming despite that 'Brexit means the end of the world' thread that was so popular a few weeks ago :rolleyes:

intheclouds

Please do PM me. Thank you.

Gumbo

intheclouds wrote: »

Thanks for the info.

Where does one find someone who does surveys?

www.scsi.ie

You can search by area. That will get you a Registered Building Surveyor.
The banks survey/valuation will be simply a visual look to make sure an actual house is there on a plot of land. They will not check structure, layout, snags etc

ontour2

Solicitors see a lot of surveys and can often recommend a good surveyor.

A surveyor is looking at the building and evaluating the risks. For example if they see artex ceilings or an old boiler flue they can highlight the potential for asbestos. They look for signs of poor construction or deterioration such as water ingress. They look at compliance with building regulations. As was highlighted, they do not look behind walls or in to drains so there are limitations to what potential issues they can identify.

I recently had a survey done in North Dublin. It was c. €450. It gave me a good insight in to the work that would be necessary. It also provided the ability to negotiate a price reduction.

If there are particular things that concerned you such as the roof, ability to extend etc. it is always worth highlighting these to the surveyor so that they answer your concerns in their report.

CruelCoin

intheclouds wrote: »

Looking at houses recently and I see plenty of comments on here that any offer should be subject to survey.

What exactly is a survey? What does it cover?

Who do you get to do a survey? Where do you find them?

Is it an engineer? A builder?

How much do they cost typically?

I paid €350 for mine.

For the most part, the bank will not accept the deeds of the house as collateral without knowing if the house is structurally sound and worth its value as that collateral.

The surveyor must also have insurance, because if he gave the all clear and then the whole house collapsed the week after you moved in, then he'd be liable for that.

The bank won't proceed with the mortgage without that report.

Sleepy

One thing to be aware of is that any survey needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. They'll be written in such a way to avoid the potential for legal action e.g. the surveyor will usually state that the roof "appears" to be in good condition rather than stating that it "is" in good condition.

This is largely due to kcire's point that the inspection is only visual in nature, the surveyor doesn't have the right to do any more than that so there are limitations to the level of assurance a surveyor can give you. A house with a "clean" survey will likely still have a few problems that'll turn up over the years of your ownership.

That said, I wouldn't buy a house without one. The surveyor we used for our purchase was recommended via PM from another boards.ie user who he'd saved from purchasing a money pit by identifying a major problem with a house she was looking at and I know several people who've had similar experiences and regard the 3/400 euro spent surveying such properties as the best money they've ever spent.

Tuesday_Girl

Does the pre-purchase survey normally include any checks in respect of planning permission and building regulations compliance or are these checks done separately? Or at all?

Hazydays123

Tuesday_Girl wrote: »

Does the pre-purchase survey normally include any checks in respect of planning permission and building regulations compliance or are these checks done separately? Or at all?

They are qualified to comment on whether various aspects of the property meet current building regs from their visual inspection.

Planning permission would be more a matter for your solicitor I'd imagine.

Gumbo

Tuesday_Girl wrote: »

Does the pre-purchase survey normally include any checks in respect of planning permission and building regulations compliance or are these checks done separately? Or at all?

Hazydays123 wrote: »

They are qualified to comment on whether various aspects of the property meet current building regs from their visual inspection.

Planning permission would be more a matter for your solicitor I'd imagine.

The survey should highlight any extensions to the original property and therefore request a compliance certificate. Such as extensions, porches, gate widening etc

Building regulations is a whole different ball game. The house just has to comply with the regs in place at the time of construction. You cannot ask a vendor to bring an old house up to current regulations.

Tuesday_Girl

Thanks a lot, I was a little unclear on what was in the realm of the solicitor versus the engineer and what's not really within the scope of the survey such as the compliance check.

intheclouds

Why dont sellers/estate agents get one survey done by someone reputable and then have that available for potential buyers?

Seems like this business of everyone getting their own survey done is just a money spin!

Sleepy

Rule one of dealing with an estate agent: if his lips are moving, he's lying.

So why would you trust a survey, that'll be written in a fashion to avoid ever being legally actionable, that's been paid for by the vendor / EA?

intheclouds

Sleepy wrote: »

Rule one of dealing with an estate agent: if his lips are moving, he's lying.

So why would you trust a survey, that'll be written in a fashion to avoid ever being legally actionable, that's been paid for by the vendor / EA?

If it became common practice, and it was regulated - then why not?

Im not saying that the world has to change tomorrow but it would be good if we could move to a better and more transparent model of property buying and selling.

Sleepy

It could only work if such surveys were legally actionable imo. Since they're only visual inspections, there's a high chance of things being missed. In order to be able to stand over their work, the surveyors would need much more expensive insurance and, the market requiring less inspections, would probably need to increase their margin on their time leading to a double-increase in the cost of the survey. So, now we have higher cost surveys that are legally actionable. The only winners here, imo, would be the legal profession.

Logically, one survey per house makes sense, I believe it's what they do in Scotland. IIRC, however, most buyers still get independent surveys carried out there though. He who pays the piper calls the tune and all that.

I'm all in favour of a more transparent model of property buying and selling - a register of bids available to all bidders would be a better start imo.

ted1

intheclouds wrote: »

If it became common practice, and it was regulated - then why not?

Im not saying that the world has to change tomorrow but it would be good if we could move to a better and more transparent model of property buying and selling.

It's not a legal requirement, and banks don't look for one. I did my own survey.

The survey is only done once sale is agreed , so very seldom would more than one survey be done

intheclouds

Sleepy wrote: »

It could only work if such surveys were legally actionable imo.

Yes, they should be.

Im all in favour of them costing more if only one is done. Overall less money will be spent on surveys in that case so thats a good thing. Better for 1 survey to cost 5k than 5 surveys costing 1k each imo.

Oh yes, transparency of bids too.

Sure Ive had estate agents completely diss the property price register as being "too out of date to be useful".

ted1

intheclouds wrote: »

Yes, they should be.

Im all in favour of them costing more if only one is done. Overall less money will be spent on surveys in that case so thats a good thing. Better for 1 survey to cost 5k than 5 surveys costing 1k each imo.

Oh yes, transparency of bids too.

Sure Ive had estate agents completely diss the property price register as being "too out of date to be useful".

5 surveys aren't done and you just increased the price by 5K

intheclouds

ted1 wrote: »

5 surveys aren't done and you just increased the price by 5K

Yes but it balances out because I no longer need to spend 1k for each house Im interested in. So maybe I now save 2k overall?

You need to look at the overall picture. One survey available for the property being sold prevents numerous surveys by potential buyers.

Gumbo

intheclouds wrote: »

Why dont sellers/estate agents get one survey done by someone reputable and then have that available for potential buyers?

Seems like this business of everyone getting their own survey done is just a money spin!

Because as a buyer I want my surveyor to be independent of the seller. I don't want their opinion on what is an issue or not.

Gumbo

intheclouds wrote: »

Yes, they should be.

Im all in favour of them costing more if only one is done. Overall less money will be spent on surveys in that case so thats a good thing. Better for 1 survey to cost 5k than 5 surveys costing 1k each imo.

Oh yes, transparency of bids too.

Sure Ive had estate agents completely diss the property price register as being "too out of date to be useful".

intheclouds wrote: »

Yes but it balances out because I no longer need to spend 1k for each house Im interested in. So maybe I now save 2k overall?

You need to look at the overall picture. One survey available for the property being sold prevents numerous surveys by potential buyers.

The surveys do not cost €1k each.
They are usually €3-400 each. And you only get one once sale agreed so by then you are committed and like the house.

intheclouds

kceire wrote: »

The surveys do not cost €1k each.
They are usually €3-400 each. And you only get one once sale agreed so by then you are committed and like the house.

I was just using silly numbers as an example.

The point I was trying (not very successfully obviously!!!) was that less money OVERALL would be spent on surveys if the responsibility for it switched to the vendor instead of the potential sellers. Currently 1 property may have 20 different surveys done on it by 20 different interested parties. So 20X will have been spent on surveys for just one property. So why not just have 1 survey done, even if its more expensive (and it should be more expensive because the vendor can get a proper structural survey done while a potential buyer cant), but it still wont cost 20X and then that way much less money gets spent overall.

You see people here say it all the time, that they cant be spending money doing a survey on every house they are interested in because its will cost them too much.

It would obviously only work if there was proper regulation and surveys were subject to legal action if they were full of nonsense.

ted1

intheclouds wrote: »

Yes but it balances out because I no longer need to spend 1k for each house Im interested in. So maybe I now save 2k overall?

You need to look at the overall picture. One survey available for the property being sold prevents numerous surveys by potential buyers.

As I said surveys are only required once you go sale agreed, you shouldn't be getting one for every house you are interested in.

You make the offer subject to survey

intheclouds

ted1 wrote: »

As I said surveys are only required once you go sale agreed, you shouldn't be getting one for every house you are interested in.

You make the offer subject to survey

Yeah but people pull out of sale agreed for all sorts of reasons, the bank might refuse them the full amount, they might see something else they prefer, they might get gazumped etc.... So they may well end up paying for more than one survey per "episode of buying a house".

Plus, if there IS something bad in a survey, the people will pull out, and then the next person will spend the same money to find out the same thing! And on it goes.

Similarly any one property will have one done per sale agreed so if it goes sale agreed more than once, then thats money down the tubes too.

I feel like its just one of those things that generating money for no good reason.

riclad

Surveys are usually done on older house,s ,
to reveal any major problems ,
dry rot, leaks, things that need fixing that would cost more than a few hundred euros .
http://www.propertyhealthcheck.ie/how-much-does-structural-house-survey-cost/
If house is say 20 years old ,standard semi d 3bed it may not need a survey.
I would not pay for a survey unless my offer on a house was accepted .
i was 99 per cent intent on buying the house .
most houses built since 1990 are in good nick ,
except there may be mediocre heat or sound insulation .

i know a small amount of estates have a problem with pyrite .
IF there,s an extension built you can ask doe,s it have planning permission ,
Small extensions may not need planning permission .
Most people dont get a survey unless the house is over x years old.

RORY O CONNOR

intheclouds wrote: »

Thanks for the info.

Where does one find someone who does surveys?

Try tradesmen.ie


http://www.tradesmen.ie/

The survey should typically include the following:

Structural inspection-externally and internally
Condition survey
Check for damp and leaking plumbing
Testing of electrics for faults-ideally done by an electrician.
Loft should be entered to check roof timbers for rot/woodworm and evidence of roof leaks, lack of insulation, party wall issues etc.
Checking heating system for function.
Advice on energy improvements over current set up in the house.
Advise on any planning or boundary issues in the property.
Any other issues that are appropriat: Is the house located in a development that is known for pyrite issues-are there any visual indications for the presence of Pyrite. This would be typically included in property built since 1998 to 2010 in North Dublin, West Dublin and apparently now South Dublin, Meath, Westmeath, Offaly

The survey should under taken by a suitably qualified (and by law registered) professional and the person should typically carry PI insurance.

Ursus Horribilis

Do you know anyone who's knowledgeable when it comes to looking at properties or construction? If you see something you're thinking of making a bid on, bring them along to a second viewing and have them take a look for you. Then when the time comes to have a survey done, there shouldn't be any nasty surprises.

Personally, I would not trust a survey commissioned by the vendor. Certainly not in Ireland with the way the regulations are enforced. And unless you're unlucky enough to be gazumped (I think it's an appalling practice but I shall not rant), you'll only be commissioning the one survey anyway.

If you think the surveyor is a money making racket, just you wait until you have to pay the valuer

RORY O CONNOR

The idea that surveying is a money making racket is daft-all services are money making rackets-it is simply business. Having your car serviced, going to the dentist, buying petrol-any service you buy is a money making racket. The fundamental problem is that buyers can't see or don't appreciate the value of the service they are paying for. No problem spending €1000 on a set of big alloy wheels on the new car because the wheels can be seen by everyone or spending €150 on a designer shirt because it can be seen by everyone.

I know of one person who bought an old house out near Glasnevin and did not have it surveyed. Moved in to discover the house was riddled with woodworm and it was not just in the roof, it was in the stud walls and floor boards. A €300 survey would have picked it up. Sensible people pay to have a secondhand car looked over and pay €100/150 for a €15,000 item but feel put out paying €300 for a house survey. No logic. You don't have to have a survey but most houses no matter how well they look do have issues of some sort. Same for new houses-get it snagged before you move in.

riclad

A house survey will show you any major problems or large repairs to be made .dry rot, rising damp etc
if You buy a house built in 1980 don.t expect it to be up to the standard of a house built in 2010.
Building regs re sound ,insulation, change every 10 years .
many older house,s tend to be larger ,
Have larger gardens than a standard 3bed semi d house .
Surveys are not a rip off .
My friend bought a house semi d ,built in 1988
he did not get a survey .
He had to put in proper insulation in the roof and put in 8 pvc windows .
All the windows were single pane , wood frame .
There was a very low level of insulation in the attic .
He is very happy with the house .
he did not feel it was necessary to get a survey.

Timelapse

Hazydays123 wrote: »

Well obviously you can google one in your area. I'd say most people go by word of mouth though. Coincidentally I had a survey carried out recently by a really excellent surveyor and I'd be happy to recommend him to you via pm if you want.
You'd have to be Dublin based though.
I've been hearing a lot recently that many surveyors are booked out well in advance and charging at what i'd consider to be the upper limits of normal.
Apparently the property market is booming despite that 'Brexit means the end of the world' thread that was so popular a few weeks ago :rolleyes:

Hi Hazydays,

Can you please pm me the surveyor you used?
I am looking to get one done on a newly built house in Dublin.

Thanks,
Timelapse

the_syco

intheclouds wrote: »

The point I was trying (not very successfully obviously!!!) was that less money OVERALL would be spent on surveys if the responsibility for it switched to the vendor instead of the potential sellers.

You save €400 so that you have to spend €45,000 to fix it?

Cadiz

Hazydays123 wrote: »

Well obviously you can google one in your area. I'd say most people go by word of mouth though. Coincidentally I had a survey carried out recently by a really excellent surveyor and I'd be happy to recommend him to you via pm if you want.
You'd have to be Dublin based though.
I've been hearing a lot recently that many surveyors are booked out well in advance and charging at what i'd consider to be the upper limits of normal.
Apparently the property market is booming despite that 'Brexit means the end of the world' thread that was so popular a few weeks ago :rolleyes:

Hazy days would you PM me your surveyor recommendation? thank you

fifigogo

I’ve been looking around for a surveyor to inspect a bungalow in Blacklion, Cavan. I made an appointment with one and was always left dealing with the receptionist who kept forgetting to get back to me and the auctioneer, then had to change the dates. The surveyor is charging €553 incl vat. I got a quote from another surveyor who spoke to me himself and email me the terms of engagement. He will also do a planning search with the co co and check the portfolio map and do a report but it will costs €800 incl vat and fuel because it’s outside his area. I was interested in a house a few months ago, went sale agreed, got a surveyor who charged less than €400 but I was left with a very inadequate report, I had to get a 2nd opinion and there was more wrong with the house than the 1st surveyor reported. Turns out he and the auctioneer were very friendly. Is the €800 guy way over priced for what he’s going to do?

patsy mulcaghy

kceire wrote: »

Because as a buyer I want my surveyor to be independent of the seller. I don't want their opinion on what is an issue or not.

Sounds like good advice. On this topic, I'm looking at a place currently; the vendor wants a sale 'Not Subject to Survey', and EA has advised me to get a survey even prior to the BID being accepted. (one that i kind shall we say to the property)

This is hardly common practice? And would it raise a red flag in your opinion or is the vendor just trying to weed out timewasters, as could have been stung at sale agreed stage before.

Wildly Boaring

patsy mulcaghy wrote: »

Sounds like good advice. On this topic, I'm looking at a place currently; the vendor wants a sale 'Not Subject to Survey', and EA has advised me to get a survey even prior to the BID being accepted. (one that i kind shall we say to the property)

This is hardly common practice? And would it raise a red flag in your opinion or is the vendor just trying to weed out timewasters, as could have been stung at sale agreed stage before.

Sounds lokke they've something to hide.

Tell em your bid is subject to survey after acceptance. If thry want your money??

Bluefoam

If someone told me not to get a survey, it would be the first thing I'd do.

riclad

I Would not pay more than 500 euro for a survey, i would not pay for a survey unless i was sure that i would be able to buy the house,
i know how much the house will cost me to buy.
The point of a survey is to reveal any major issues and to estimate the cost of repairs that may be needed .The house might need rewiring, it might have dry rot or some other issue .
You can make a bid subject to survey, eg offer 200k ,but i might reduce the offer a bit if there s a serious issue that needs fixing.That will be shown in the survey.
i would bid on a house that does not permit a survey prior to bidding.

riclad

It would be foolish to bid 200k on a house, then discover it needs 30k repairs, maybe it has dry rot, rising damp ,or pyrite issues.
And you do not have 30k in the bank to spend on repairs .
When you can buy a house down the road in perfect condition for 200k or less .
Why would a seller object to any buyer carrying out a survey on a house for sale.The house may be built to a low standard and does not comply with fire regulations .

Wildly Boaring

riclad wrote: »

It would be foolish to bid 200k on a house, then discover it needs 30k repairs, maybe it has dry rot, rising damp ,or pyrite issues.
And you do not have 30k in the bank to spend on repairs .
When you can buy a house down the road in perfect condition for 200k or less .
Why would a seller object to any buyer carrying out a survey on a house for sale.The house may be built to a low standard and does not comply with fire regulations .

What the seller means is the survey must be done prior to you making an offer.

Seen it before. Seller shy as bitten before with findings if survey after agreed price.

Generally there is something wrong with the house though

patsy mulcaghy

Think this must be the case also, will pursue a bit more to see. Thanks for your opinions.

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

What the seller means is the survey must be done prior to you making an offer.

Seen it before. Seller shy as bitten before with findings if survey after agreed price.

Generally there is something wrong with the house though