Little cousin telling secrets

LegacyUser

Need to go unreg for this, and I'll try keep it short.
I have a 3 year old cousin that is quite close to me. I look after her quite a bit and she's very open. I have no reason to believe she's telling fibs, she's quite blunt with what she comes out with.

Her parents aren't together, they broke up before the child was born. Her dad sees her every week or so, give or take. They'd be on civil enough terms but isn't father of the year material. He likes to go out on weekends so the child is left with his brother (her uncle) most of the time.

Yesterday the three year old announces, completely random, that she was in bed in her uncles house and he pulled down her knickers when she was asleep. Completely taken aback. I have no reason not to believe her, but I don't know what to do.

Both her parents are now aware of what she said. Her dad (his brother) doesn't believe it at all, and is reluctant to confront the uncle in question because he doesn't want to lose his baby sitter (?!?!?!?! How could he ever leave his child there again?) and doesn't believe the child.
Her mam is an absolute wreck but I get the feeling the child's not believed either. (Mother is 90% sure he's not like that 10% doesn't trust anybody)

I do believe she would tell me if anyone hurt her, so I don't think anything else happened but I 100% take her word on what her uncle did. I just don't know what to do or how to proceed. I don't know her uncle, I've never met him. I want her to be safe but I'm aware it's a serious allegation to come from someone outside the family when I have no idea what this man is like.

Any advice appreciated.

loalae

I think you need to give TUSLA a call and ask for their advice.

I appreciate it may feel that you're betraying a family but if there is a chance that the child may still be going to the house and it's true then you could be 'saving' her.

TUSLA will also be able to advise whether you should go to the gardai as it doesn't seem that the parents have done so.

It could just be that the child is describing an incident where her uncle was undressing her for bed but surely it's better to be confident that this is the case rather than worried that she has experienced abuse.

Supercell

Does she wear a pull up nappy at night, maybe he smelled something and was checking or as previously said, he was getting her ready for bed and the child thought it strange their parent wasnt doing it? At that age you really need to take what they say with a huge pinch of salt (I'm a parent of 3 aged 4 and under).
If she isnt then TUSLA may be the way to go, horrible situation to deal with.

deseil

Like the previous poster said ring Tusla and get advice.
With the "not knowing whether hes like that " no one knows what a paedophile is like until they are caught they are Friends,brothers, fathers etc and are mostly indistinguishable from normal people.

This may all become nothing and its a horrible accusation to throw at an innocent person, tusla are trained professionals and are very good at dealing with these matters sensitively, you need to act now the childs safety is the most important thing.

eviltwin

At three she's unlikely to be making it up. She may not have the language to fully articulate what happened. TUSLA need to be informed. They handle cases like this all the time and will be discreet and sensitive. For further support contact the CARI Foundation. They deal with issues surrounding possible child abuse.

LegacyUser

Is she nappy trained night?

I assume your sister won't let the child stay over at weekends without the dad there?

Lady is a tramp

First of all I'd say to avoid bringing it up with her (and try to discourage her parents from bringing it up with her) until she's spoken to a professional - you don't want to inadvertently influence her memory of what happened.

I'd say try to bring her to a GP in the next day or two - as soon as possible. Speak to the GP alone first and get their opinion on how to proceed ... the GP might wish to speak to her about it, or they might refer you straight to TUSLA. They'll possibly/probably want to do a physical exam too. The reason I'd say to go to a GP first is because you don't know how long you'll be waiting for TUSLA to respond and she may have forgotten all about it - also, the report may be taken more seriously with a doctor's report. Bear in mind that you'll probably meet resistance from the parents on this, but let them know that you'll be informing TUSLA one way or another, whether they agree to a GP visit or not.

I do think it's perfectly possible that what happened was completely innocent. At that age I'm guessing she's not potty trained very long, she could have had an "accident" and didn't want to tell you that. Or maybe she woke and took them off herself but couldn't remember doing it so assumed he did. Still, if he cares about the child, he should be able to understand that you need to take what she said seriously.

ted1

eviltwin wrote: »

At three she's unlikely to be making it up. She may not have the language to fully articulate what happened. TUSLA need to be informed. They handle cases like this all the time and will be discreet and sensitive. For further support contact the CARI Foundation. They deal with issues surrounding possible child abuse.

You'd be surprised what porkies three years old can tell.

If he did do it , it could be something as simple as her fallen asleep in her clothes and he was putting her PJs on

Eimee90

ted1 wrote:

You'd be surprised what porkies three years old can tell.

It's very unlikely for a three year old to express this if it didn't happen.

The important thing here is to establish the truth. Ring tusla for advice, proceed from there.

ted1

elsa21 wrote: »

It's very unlikely for a three year old to express this if it didn't happen.

The important thing here is to establish the truth. Ring tusla for advice, proceed from there.

You'd be suprised both kids when they were three used to come out with some great tales.

bee06

ted1 wrote: »

You'd be suprised both kids when they were three used to come out with some great tales.

Would you really want to take the risk and do nothing though? It's a terrible position to be in but I think the damage by doing nothing is worse that contacting Tusla etc as other posters have suggested.

ted1

bee06 wrote: »

Would you really want to take the risk and do nothing though? It's a terrible position to be in but I think the damage by doing nothing is worse that contacting Tusla etc as other posters have suggested.

I wouldn't do nothing but I would get to the bottom of it myself .

After the balls the state made last year taking the blonde gypsieckids from their parents , I'd be reluctant to bring in a state body

eviltwin

ted1 wrote: »

I wouldn't do nothing but I would get to the bottom of it myself .

After the balls the state made last year taking the blonde gypsieckids from their parents , I'd be reluctant to bring in a state body

Three year old can say things that sound worse than they are. They don't have the language to explain context. It could be nothing but its a hell of a risk to take. Social workers operate differently to gardai. They won't act heavy handed with so little to go on. It's better to report it and have peace of mind than do nothing.

Gatling

I wouldn't be dragging her to a gp I'd leave that to mum or dad, you could risk the parents talking offense to the move and removing your access to your cousin

blacklilly

You need to contact TULSA, end of. I appreciate its a difficult situation for you to be in but if something untoward is happening it needs to be investigated.

I have a very close relative that was sexually abused for years and no one ever listened to her allegations as she was "only a child", if someone had have paid attention to what she was telling them it would have saved her a profound amount of emotionally distress, anxiety and depression.

meeeeh

elsa21 wrote: »

It's very unlikely for a three year old to express this if it didn't happen.

The important thing here is to establish the truth. Ring tusla for advice, proceed from there.

Our three year old Machiavelli has absolutely no problem lying. Not only once or twice and you can actually see little clogs turning in her head and calculating weather it would be more beneficial to tell the truth or not. She even told our childminder she will tell me that childminder scratched her (she did no such thing) and when I confronted her about it she just smiled sweetly.

Most people are not child abusers. I would definitely advise caution, keeping an eye on the situation, maybe ring Tusla. But three year olds are perfectly capable to invent things (I get whole stories about what happened, above was just one example) or misunderstand things. Sometimes they also lack ability to explain things.

blacklilly

meeeeh wrote: »

Our three year old Machiavelli has absolutely no problem lying. Not only once or twice and you can actually see little clogs turning in her head and calculating weather it would be more beneficial to tell the truth or not. She even told our childminder she will tell me that childminder scratched her (she did no such thing) and when I confronted her about it she just smiled sweetly.

Most people are not child abusers. I would definitely advise caution, keeping an eye on the situation, maybe ring Tusla. But three year olds are perfectly capable to invent things (I get whole stories about what happened, above was just one example) or misunderstand things. Sometimes they also lack ability to explain things.

And on such a serious matter, I would not ignore what the child is saying. How can the OP keep an eye on her when she is staying in her uncles house etc.
We all know children make up things and lie but for a child as young as 3 to lie about an incident whereby someone touched her inappropriately/took off her underwear, would be very unusual. Usually these allegations hold some truth and from my knowledge on the subject of abuse, a child is more likely to lie about these instances in cases where the child subject to prior abuse.

ahnow

Hi op,

You need to act on this as quick as possible. Statistics in Ireland for sexual abuse is about one in four for children, and it's extremely common for this to occur within families. It's rarely by someone unknown to the child. For people on here saying that most people aren't child abusers...well someone is abusing them, and it's every day people, uncles, cousins, grandparents, neighbours etc.
You can make all the excuses in the world, that there could be another reason for why the child said what she said, but none of that actually matters if it turns out that the child was continuing to be abused because people were afraid of false accusations. It's a life ruined if action isn't taken.

retro:electro

Children often lie about very silly trivial things, and they will often make up that a person hit or scratched them when they didn't. They will very rarely, if ever, lie about being touched innappropriately or someone interfering inappropriately with them. I would not ignore what your niece said op. I would try and gain more context about what happened though, was she asleep or awake? Did her uncle come into the room or was she in bed beside him? Try and ask in informal and relaxed way as you can, maybe be playing at the time or something. I would definetly be passing this information on to TUSLA. They aren't going to come in all guns blazing and remove the child; they are prohibited from doing that.

LegacyUser

ted1 wrote: »

I wouldn't do nothing but I would get to the bottom of it myself .

You'd undertake the responsibility of conducting an investigation to potential child abuse by yourself rather than contact trained professionals? Rank nonsense and that kind of thing is what lets things go on beyond the point at which action should be taken.

OP, you almost certainly aren't aware of it, no reason you should be, but anybody in receipt of information which leads them to believe a child may have been abused has a legal duty to report it to Gardaí. TUSLA will then be contacted by them. I can't post a link, but you can google for the relevant recent legislation yourself.

Xterminator

i would think that the decision should be the parents to make - not a well meaning family member.

they are the primary guardians & they should decide to bring state agencys/guards/GP into it, & it if turns into one awful mess (and it may well) they will have to deal with the fallout.

I think you should advise but abide by their decision.

blacklilly

Xterminator wrote: »

i would think that the decision should be the parents to make - not a well meaning family member.

they are the primary guardians & they should decide to bring state agencys/guards/GP into it, & it if turns into one awful mess (and it may well) they will have to deal with the fallout.

I think you should advise but abide by their decision.

With all due respect this is nonsense. if everyone abided by this logic, very little sexual abuse would ever come to light, given the fact that the vast majority of it happens within families.

ted1

Guessed wrote: »

You'd undertake the responsibility of conducting an investigation to potential child abuse by yourself rather than contact trained professionals? Rank nonsense and that kind of thing is what lets things go on beyond the point at which action should be taken.

OP, you almost certainly aren't aware of it, no reason you should be, but anybody in receipt of information which leads them to believe a child may have been abused has a legal duty to report it to Gardaí. TUSLA will then be contacted by them. I can't post a link, but you can google for the relevant recent legislation yourself.

Before I tear a family apart, I'd do my own investigation.

Xterminator

blacklilly wrote: »

With all due respect this is nonsense. if everyone abided by this logic, very little sexual abuse would ever come to light, given the fact that the vast majority of it happens within families.

in this circumstance it is not an immediate family member suspected, and in this circumstance both the parents are aware of the allegation.

do you know the kind of havoc op could being to bear on this family by well intentioned but misplaced altruism?

the child could potentially be taken into care & the childs family fractured

the uncle could be named and shamed as a peadophile (innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply to that offence) and could lose job, home & reputation.

i dont think thats hyperbole ; it really could happen. Unles the child is going to stay with the uncle tonight the OP would have no reason to jump the gun here.

Flippyfloppy

ted1 wrote: »

Before I tear a family apart, I'd do my own investigation.

Are you serious??? You sound like Gareth from the Office, with his little investigation/interrogation room. Do you have any idea how dangerous it would be to start investigating such an incident yourself? How easy it would be to put words into a three year olds mouth, or scare them into thinking that if anything did happen it was all their fault?

Or would you 'investigate' the alleged abuser?? How would that go now? Ask him and he'll just admit it, and you'll drive him to the nearest Garda station. Or he'll say no, won't mind being accused by you, and you'll go for a friendly pint? Think about it. I, as a mother, would not probe my own child any further if they stated something like this. I'd be straight to a good doctor or therapist, so it would be done properly.

OP, don't wait for the child to say something else. That could of been her 'confiding' in you. Again, it could have been him changing her into a pull up, but just call tusla to be safe, please. It's not just up to the parents, it takes a village to raise a child and all that.

Lady is a tramp

It's a tricky one.

There are completely innocent reasons why an adult in charge of a sleeping toddler might need to remove their clothing. (As a matter of interest, would there be this level of concern if the child had told the OP that her aunt or mother had taken off her knickers?) If you're going to trust someone with your small child, you need to be comfortable that they may need to undress/bathe them etc, e.g. in case of bedwetting.

This guy could be completely innocent, and only acting as a responsible caregiver. One things for sure though - if he is innocent, and ye go in all guns blazing getting TUSLA involved etc, he will almost certainly refuse to ever have the child in his care alone again. And his relationship with his brother might be permanently damaged.

That's why I'd be inclined to get the opinion of an uninvolved professional - i.e. the child's GP. Let him talk to the child, examine her, assess whether he thinks this needs to go any further. He'll be more capable than her parents of forming an unbiased opinion based on the facts.

ahnow

Xterminator wrote: »

in this circumstance it is not an immediate family member suspected, and in this circumstance both the parents are aware of the allegation.

do you know the kind of havoc op could being to bear on this family by well intentioned but misplaced altruism?

the child could potentially be taken into care & the childs family fractured

the uncle could be named and shamed as a peadophile (innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply to that offence) and could lose job, home & reputation.

i dont think thats hyperbole ; it really could happen. Unles the child is going to stay with the uncle tonight the OP would have no reason to jump the gun here.

I completely and utterly disagree with this. Speaking from my own situation I was abused by my grandfather. My parents were slow to act, and because of this I had to continue seeing him down through the years although the abuse stopped. The biggest trauma for me is the lack of action on every adult who knew about the abuse but did not bring him to justice or out him. Aunts and uncles knew about it, but my grandmother didn't and that is the reason for this inaction. They didn't want it going public because of the potential media, court case, family falling apart etc.
I will tell you now that this is by far the biggest damage caused from the whole situation. Not the act of the abuse itself but the inaction of the adults who's responsibility it was to manage this situation immediately and protect the child. It is paramount that the protection of the child come first over all of these other issues. Also when I say immediately I mean today.
Imagine this child's abuse is genuine-and it is probably very likely that it is, a few years down the line she starts asking questions about her disclosure of it. How do you think she will quantify in her head the inaction of the OP, and her parents after she disclosed such information?
The logical reasoning of "well we had to look at the whole thing before jumping to conclusions" will not be good enough from the victims point of view, and no amount of reason or logic will undo that kind of damage.

njs030

Lady is a tramp wrote: »

It's a tricky one.

There are completely innocent reasons why an adult in charge of a sleeping toddler might need to remove their clothing. (As a matter of interest, would there be this level of concern if the child had told the OP that her aunt or mother had taken off her knickers?) If you're going to trust someone with your small child, you need to be comfortable that they may need to undress/bathe them etc, e.g. in case of bedwetting.

This guy could be completely innocent, and only acting as a responsible caregiver. One things for sure though - if he is innocent, and ye go in all guns blazing getting TUSLA involved etc, he will almost certainly refuse to ever have the child in his care alone again. And his relationship with his brother might be permanently damaged.

That's why I'd be inclined to get the opinion of an uninvolved professional - i.e. the child's GP. Let him talk to the child, examine her, assess whether he thinks this needs to go any further. He'll be more capable than her parents of forming an unbiased opinion based on the facts.

I don't think a gp could examine a child without the parents permission. They definitely cant discuss anything with the child's aunt and if there's any hint of wrongdoing (like the aunt telling them her concerns) they have to report it.

Lady is a tramp

notjustsweet wrote: »

I don't think a gp could examine a child without the parents permission. They definitely cant discuss anything with the child's aunt and if there's any hint of wrongdoing (like the aunt telling them her concerns) they have to report it.

I wouldn't suggest that the OP bring her to the GP alone, but that she'd try to talk the child's parents into agreeing to take her.

retro:electro

Whoever thinks a GP is going to physically examine a 3 year old child without the assistance of her parents needs to get their heads examined.

Lady is a tramp

anna080 wrote: »

Whoever thinks a GP is going to physically examine a 3 year old child without the assistance of her parents needs to get their heads examined.

I'm not sure anyone has suggested that.

Gatling

Lady is a tramp wrote: »

I'm not sure anyone has suggested that.

It was suggested she be brought to a gp at first chance

Lady is a tramp

Gatling wrote: »

It was suggested she be brought to a gp at first chance

Lady is a tramp wrote: »

First of all I'd say to avoid bringing it up with her (and try to discourage her parents from bringing it up with her) until she's spoken to a professional - you don't want to inadvertently influence her memory of what happened.

I'd say try to bring her to a GP in the next day or two - as soon as possible. Speak to the GP alone first and get their opinion on how to proceed ... the GP might wish to speak to her about it, or they might refer you straight to TUSLA. They'll possibly/probably want to do a physical exam too. The reason I'd say to go to a GP first is because you don't know how long you'll be waiting for TUSLA to respond and she may have forgotten all about it - also, the report may be taken more seriously with a doctor's report. Bear in mind that you'll probably meet resistance from the parents on this, but let them know that you'll be informing TUSLA one way or another, whether they agree to a GP visit or not.

I do think it's perfectly possible that what happened was completely innocent. At that age I'm guessing she's not potty trained very long, she could have had an "accident" and didn't want to tell you that. Or maybe she woke and took them off herself but couldn't remember doing it so assumed he did. Still, if he cares about the child, he should be able to understand that you need to take what she said seriously.

As above, what I suggested was bringing her to the GP with her parents, if they agree to it.

ted1

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

Are you serious??? You sound like Gareth from the Office, with his little investigation/interrogation room. Do you have any idea how dangerous it would be to start investigating such an incident yourself? How easy it would be to put words into a three year olds mouth, or scare them into thinking that if anything did happen it was all their fault?

Or would you 'investigate' the alleged abuser?? How would that go now? Ask him and he'll just admit it, and you'll drive him to the nearest Garda station. Or he'll say no, won't mind being accused by you, and you'll go for a friendly pint? Think about it. I, as a mother, would not probe my own child any further if they stated something like this. I'd be straight to a good doctor or therapist, so it would be done properly.

OP, don't wait for the child to say something else. That could of been her 'confiding' in you. Again, it could have been him changing her into a pull up, but just call tusla to be safe, please. It's not just up to the parents, it takes a village to raise a child and all that.

You've lost it all together , I'd talk to the child and get information without ask keading questions.

I've three kids and we get by without needing a village.

What your suggesting is to report the uncle as a suspected paedophile. That will tear the family apart , it may also lead to the child being removed from her parents.

I have said before the kids can and do tell porkies. There are some people her that think three year old are incapable ? That's far from the truth. Kids have wild imaginations.

ted1

ted1 wrote: »

What your suggesting is to report the uncle as a suspected paedophile. That will tear the family apart , it may also lead to the child being removed from her parents.
.

This is ridiculous, it will absolutely not lead to the child being removed from her parents. No chance.
OP don't worry about causing a fuss, better a fuss than a child possibly be abused.

njs030

Lady is a tramp wrote: »

I wouldn't suggest that the OP bring her to the GP alone, but that she'd try to talk the child's parents into agreeing to take her.

OK it comes across as you suggesting the aunt take her. It wasn't just me who thought that so glad of the clarification.

It's a good idea in theory but as they aren't interested in the child's comments it's unlikely they'll listen.

Op does the child go to playgroup? A word with one of the teachers will take it out of your hands all together.

ted1

notjustsweet wrote: »

OK it comes across as you suggesting the aunt take her. It wasn't just me who thought that so glad of the clarification.

It's a good idea in theory but as they aren't interested in the child's comments it's unlikely they'll listen.

Op does the child go to playgroup? A word with one of the teachers will take it out of your hands all together.

So we have had a Medical GP, Tusla and now a playgroup teacher ( are they teachers or leaders)
It really does take a village ...,

blacklilly

ted1 wrote: »

You've lost it all together , I'd talk to the child and get information without ask keading questions.

I've three kids and we get by without needing a village.

What your suggesting is to report the uncle as a suspected paedophile. That will tear the family apart , it may also lead to the child being removed from her parents.

I have said before the kids can and do tell porkies. There are some people her that think three year old are incapable ? That's far from the truth. Kids have wild imaginations.

The OP has already advised the child's parents of the allegations and they are not taking them seriously. It would seem that they are in fact ignoring them.

Everyone is in agreement that children tell lies, however to lie about something of this nature is very rare in instances where there is no history of sexual abuse or where the incident did not happen. Children don't generally make up stories of a sexual nature given they shouldn't have any experience of such experiences.

meeeeh

ted1 wrote: »

So we have had a Medical GP, Tusla and now a playgroup teacher ( are they teachers or leaders)
It really does take a village ...,

This...

As a parent I can think dozens of reasons why underpants could be taken off. Not to mention when kids are going to bed and are being charged into pyjamas.

I'm no way advocating ignoring the issue but going around accusing someone of child abuse. Also before invasive check ups at gp are done wouldn't be better first to talk to the child. I would first talk to Tulsa to get advice how to proceed.

Eimee90

ted1 wrote:

You'd be suprised both kids when they were three used to come out with some great tales.

Tales yes, but very few make up untrue stories of this nature, the understanding simply isn't there.

Op regardless of this, this needs to be investigated. This childs parents have a duty of care to their child.

Eimee90

ted1 wrote:

After the balls the state made last year taking the blonde gypsieckids from their parents , I'd be reluctant to bring in a state body

ted1 wrote:

I wouldn't do nothing but I would get to the bottom of it myself .

Im sorry but there is no comparison here and the op should not be frightened away from investigating it through the proper means. They are not equiped to determine abuse. There are however tests a gp can do to check for signs and so on, op

retro:electro

This is why lots of cases of abuse left to perpetuate to be honest. People think "oh sure she's only 3, she's exaggerating", "sure it's not my place to say, I've done my bit now", "I don't want to be responsible for tearing a family apart". There are agencies available who deal with this type of thing every day, and despite what the media will have you believe they do not remove the child from the home, this is the very last resort and only when there is immediate risk to the child's safely. You need to inform TUSLA, they have the appropriate measures to take it from there. You don't want to look back in a few years time and regret not acting. It's a no brainer.

He pulled down her underwear while she was asleep; I hate to say it but this is usually how abusers start the abuse, it's a kind of 'testing the waters' if you will. Very rarely they will start interfering straight away, but they start off slowly and see how far they can get before the child tells someone. It's an awful thing to think about I know, but it happens.

Merkin

I find this thread really upsetting.

When I was three apparently I had a very vivid imagination. This, coupled with being articulate for my age, I was chatting to my beloved Granny one day when I told her that my father regularly beats my mother. Now before proceeding with this story can I just say that not only is my Dad one of the kindest, most gentlest men you can meet but also is very happily married to my Mum. So my Gran was aghast as she adored my Dad but felt she had to say something in private to my Mum (her daughter) who was as shocked as she was. God I was a right little f8cker when I think about it because to this day I don't know where it came from. All I know is that small kids can come out with some really tall tales but if you are to interrogate her on this you could in fact be getting her to embellish a fantasy.

But it might not be a fantasy and that's a risk you cannot take. I would, for now, make sure that the child does not stay with this man for the time being. I think if she is in her father's care he shouldn't be pawning her off on relatives anyway.

Secondly, I would phone TUSLA and ask for their advice on what to do/how to approach the child to glean more information. Her Mum can't just let this lie but similarly can't go making wild accusations.

The child's welfare is the ultimate priority so for that reason Id invoke the help of the experts and get advice from them.

I'm hoping this is just a bright little girl with an overactive imagination.

eviltwin

OP contact CARI. They deal with this kind of thing. They will give you clear information on what needs to be done. Give their number to the child's parents. They need support and clarity. It's all anonymous and confidential. Doing your own investigation isn't recommended, understandably emotions will be running high and your family needs guidance on how to manage this appropriately.

freshpopcorn

Report it to the the appropriate authority. I would however not get the preschool involved. The parents might cut you out from contact with the child in the future.

loalae

OP, the reason I suggested speaking to TUSLA is because I think the parents' reaction the the information is a little bit worrying. I think any reasonable parent would bring their child to a doctor or the police and explain what had happened and they would ensure that the child was not left with the uncle until he was spoken to about it. The fact that your cousin's dad is more concerned about losing a babysitter rather than potential alleged abuse of his daughter is a really bizarre response and could cast some doubt to safeguard her from harm adequately.

I am a social worker in the children's service in the UK and I wouldn't consider that what you have said would warrant immediate removal at all but I would consider whether the parents might benefit from some guidance from professionals whose job it is to safeguard children.

I think it would be extremely unhelpful to accuse the uncle of being a sex offender or paedophile. Very often what happens in the UK when children make allegations like this is they are interviewed by a social worker and a police officer who are trained in ABE (achieving best evidence ) interview techniques. Unless the child makes a clear disclosure it is not brought forward.

I think it would be extremely stupid of you to speak to your cousin any more about this as you are not qualified to do so. You cannot bring your cousin to the gp without one of her parents. You can recommend that her mother does this and report it to the police or you could seek further advice from TUSLA. I'm inclined to think that speaking to TUSLA is the least worst option.

Big Bag of Chips

loalae wrote: »

The fact that your cousin's dad is more concerned about losing a babysitter rather than potential alleged abuse of his daughter is a really bizarre response

In fairness, I don't think that was the dad's response. I think it was the OP's interpretation of why the dad might not want to believe it.

It's a fairly dramatic thing to have landed in your lap. And people will react, and say things in the immediate aftermath of being told something like that, that after some reflection they could change their mind on. Nobody would want to believe that of their own brother. Nobody. It would also be something that would be uncomfortable for somebody to bring up. But I would hope, given a bit of time, and opportunity, that steps would be taken to find out what, if anything happened.

OP, I 100% get that you are worried about your little cousin. But cases like this need to be handled in a very specific way. The correct people, with proper training need to be the ones to follow this up. They will know how to talk to the child, and want to say to her to get the answers they need. "Lay people" with the best of intentions in the world might use leading questions and persuasive language to get the answers they are looking for.

There are any number of reasons that your cousin said what she did. If it is true, there are also any number of reasons why it might have happened. That is why properly trained people don't pressume anything until they have more details. You're already presuming the worst and making all kinds of judgements on others (the mother, father and uncle) based on 1 sentence from a 3 year old.

You need to contact whoever it is you contact to get advice. In this case TUSLA. You give them all details they ask you for, and then you let them do the work. You check in occasionally to see if there has been progress, and you carry on as normal with your cousin. You do not question her. You do not prompt her. You do not mention her uncle. Children have fantastic imaginations, and something you might say/suggest/ask out of concern suddenly becomes part of the story and "fact" for that child.

Child protection advises that in cases such as this people are told on a "need to know" basis. The fewer people who know, the better for the child. The more people who know, the more people who can potentially interfere with the child. Their story might be altered for them (either for better, or worse) They might be made to feel wrong for telling someone. There are professional people who are specifically trained to deal with these situations. Let them deal with it.

LegacyUser

Hi, OP again. Thanks everybody for the suggestions. I understand there is probably an entirely reasonable explanation to why it happened. I understand kids have wild imaginations but she always tells me things that bother her. There was a time when her mam and dad did not get on and her mam would be calling her dad names (in front of the child) and she would say to me "daddy not a bollocks. Mammy said daddy is a bold boy", she told me when her mams boyfriend hit her mam and made her cry. She tells me a lot of what makes her sad and it's all been true in the past which is why I am taking her at her word this time, although I do accept while it may have happened, it could be easily explained. I am also aware of the weight behind such an accusation which is why I did not know how to proceed.

In regards to assuming how the parents reacted, that is not me putting words in their mouth. The mother asked the father to speak to the uncle about what was said. The father replied that she knew the uncle well, she knows he isn't like that, it's the child's imagination, and that if they say it to him they will never have a babysitter again. The mother responded that when the child is left with him at the weekends, she shouldn't be passed around to other people, and that she doesn't need him as a babysitter.

The mother is extremely upset. She is just out of an abusive relationship and is quite easily worked up. She's taking the child seriously however is saying she knows him and "90% believes he would never do something that sinister 10% doesn't trust anyone". They're not my interpretation of the situation, it's what her mam has told me.

The father has since brought it up with his brother since I started this thread. His brother said she was in the bed with his two children and that he didn't touch her at all. So I think that rules out pj changes etc. I think it's at the stage where it didn't happen and she was just confused or it did happen and he's denying it.

Either way, I'm going to speak to her mam this evening again and try encourage her to talk to Tulsa and take her to the doctor. I think her mam will do this, I think she was just in shock. If she doesn't do anything, I will tell her I'm going to contact Tulsa as if she says that in school it will be much worse.

Thank you all for your input and suggestions.

Sapphire

It's worth contacting Tusla anyway to get information on how to talk to a child in an age-appropriate way about the underwear rule. They usually have booklets and activity books and the like for very small kiddies.

Or you might find some good resources online for the chat. Maybe him knowing that the child has had a chat about what's appropriate touching and what isn't, and that mum is now on her guard, might be enough to resolve the issue for now. As awful as that must feel, it really is her word against his.

For what its worth, I do not believe that a toddler, even one with a vivid imagination, can come up with something like that by themselves. They just don't have the vocabulary or the knowledge at that age to verbalise something like that.

Lady is a tramp

That "underwear rule" document is great, definitely something I'll discuss with my son when he's old enough to understand. As a victim of child sex abuse, I can clearly remember being so upset and troubled as a 3/4 year old, because I felt so guilty about what happened - it felt wrong, and I really wanted to tell my mum, but the priest had told me I wasn't to tell anyone about it, and especially not my parents ... and in my little head, the priest (who was acting through God) trumped my parents ... or did he? Not the sort of thing a child that age should have to be trying to figure out.

You mentioned that there were two other children in the bed; I wonder if one of those two did it? What ages were they? When she woke up, she could have assumed that her uncle had done it (possibly by being used to him changing her nappy), or even one of the other children may have told her it was the uncle, for whatever reason.

meeeeh

Sapphire wrote: »

For what its worth, I do not believe that a toddler, even one with a vivid imagination, can come up with something like that by themselves. They just don't have the vocabulary or the knowledge at that age to verbalise something like that.

I suspect our gangster is a bit brighter than average but I doubt she is that special. There is nothing that delights here more than talking about bottoms, giggling when she passes wind and even pulling down pants and moonlighting her grandparents. She is perfectly happy confident and badly behaved child.

I'm not advocating doing nothing but from one sentence of three year old some here already decided not just that her pants were pulled off for whatever reason but also that she was touched inappropriately.

I'm not being flippant but I could totally see our little one telling something like op's cousin in her stories about bottoms. On the other hand I would be a lot more worried if her brother would say something like that when he was three. His speech and ability to make up stories was way less developed and he was less fascinated by bodily functions. What I am saying is that not all kids are the same. And something you can't imagine one kid to do can be pretty normal for another.