Powers of arrest

GM228

Trying to compile a list of people/groups which have powers of arrest.

I can think of the following:-

• Any person may arrest without warrant, with reasonable cause, anyone they suspect to be in the act of committing an arrestable offence or suspected to be guilty of an arrestable offence.
  
• Gardaí (obviously)
  
• Customs/Revenue officers
  
• Airport Police
  
• Port/Harbour Police
  
• Immigration Officers
  
• Defence Forces Personnel
  
• Park Rangers/Constables (Phoenix Park and Killarney National Park only)
  
• An Blascaod Mór National Historic Park "authorised persons" (*possibly invalid as I seem to recall the Act or part of the Act which gave this power was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court-can anyone confirm)
  
• Inland Fisheries Ireland Officers
  
• Private Water Keepers
  
• CIE "Authorised Persons"
  
• LUAS "Authorised Persons"
  

Anyone want to add to that?

Also does anyone know if citizens still have the common law right of arrest for breach of peace?

dev100

GM228 wrote:

Trying to compile a list of people/groups which have powers of arrest.

This will be an interesting thread

I believe myself only a guard can physically arrest you . I think even a customs person needs a guard on hand to physically arrest you .I'd add in airport police but the airport is their only jurisdiction

That's my belief

GM228

dev100 wrote: »

This will be an interesting thread

I believe myself only a guard can physically arrest you . I think even a customs person needs a guard on hand to physically arrest you .I'd add in airport police but the airport is their only jurisdiction

That's my belief

Airport police already in there, and all those people listed can actually arrest you as per statute.

ScouseMouse

Don't mean to derail what could be an interesting thread, but can you please define

anyone they SUSPECT to be in the act of committing an arrestable offence or SUSPECTED to be guilty of an arrestable offence.

Does what I SUSPECT matter ???

dev100

Can you link the statute??? I'd like to have a read over it ...

For me it's an extreme grey area. What's a CIE or Luas person going to arrest me for ? If I decide I'm walking along the luas platform and they've mistaken me for someone else and they go to put their hands on my person and I decide I'm walking away how are they going to achieve an arrest on a 6ft2 and built like a tank ??? Rugby tackle me to the ground or rip my arms up behind my back and shoved to the ground knee in the back ?

Sure if you read about the court case where a person hadn't paid or zapped their leap card on a luas and they had went after the person and judge threw it out as the person was outside of luas property and the inspectors weren't entitled to use their powers

In my book anyone putting their hands on me is assault unless it's a guard ...

MarkAnthony

dev100 wrote: »

This will be an interesting thread

I believe myself only a guard can physically arrest you . I think even a customs person needs a guard on hand to physically arrest you .I'd add in airport police but the airport is their only jurisdiction

That's my belief

Anyone can affect an arrest with reasonable force given the right circumstances.

hullaballoo

I've said this before but I do not believe for a second that some geezer in a luminous jacket has any right to interfere with my (or any other's) constitutional rights on the say-so of either the Oireachtas or some Minister.

None of those listed, other than AGS have any meaningful power of arrest and AGS only have it because they are trained only to arrest people when they actually have legal authority to do so.

Gatling

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Anyone can affect an arrest with reasonable force given the right circumstances.

Detain but not arrest

coylemj

ScouseMouse wrote: »

Don't mean to derail what could be an interesting thread, but can you please define

anyone they SUSPECT to be in the act of committing an arrestable offence or SUSPECTED to be guilty of an arrestable offence.

Does what I SUSPECT matter ???

+1 to this query and in the case of a (note the past tense) suspected offence, how far in the past can it be?

And what is an 'arrestable offence'?

And this is more in the area of grammar than law but isn't it a tautology to say that a citizen can arrest someone whom they see committing an arrestable offence?

dev100

MarkAnthony wrote:

Anyone can affect an arrest with reasonable force given the right circumstances.

The law is an ass ...

I know a farmer who blocked is driveway to stop 2 travellers from leaving his old farm house. They were in having a root around.

Guards come and tell him he could be in trouble for holding them against their will .

His mistake was they hadn't taken anything so they couldn't be done for stealing if they had of put stuff in the van then they could have been arrested ...

dev100

Gatling wrote:

Detain but not arrest

Arrest or detain how do you detain someone if you ain't a cop ?

plodder

There are subtle differences, according to my understanding as illustrated by the following:

part of criminal law act 1997 wrote:

(2) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), where an arrestable offence has been committed, any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he, with reasonable cause, suspects to be guilty of the offence.

(3) Where a member of An Garda Síochána, with reasonable cause, suspects that an arrestable offence has been committed, he may arrest without warrant anyone whom the member, with reasonable cause, suspects to be guilty of the offence.

For (2), "any person" needs to be damn sure that an offence has been committed, whereas a garda (3) only needs reasonable cause for suspicion. So, if a member of the public arrests someone and they aren't convicted of an offense, no matter what technicality they get off on, they could end up being sued for wrongful arrest. Gardai are immune from that.

daveharnett

dev100 wrote: »

Arrest or detain how do you detain someone if you ain't a cop ?

By insisting that they stay put, physically blocking them from leaving, or sitting on them, as appropriate.

Gatling

dev100 wrote: »

Arrest or detain how do you detain someone if you ain't a cop ?

Usually it's quite easy depending on the situation your dealing with I come from the security industry so we're used to stopping and detaining shoplifters and people braking into sites ,
We never say your under arrest, though I've heard poorly trained security staff the use the "your under arrest for shoplifting line over the years "
You can only use a minimum amount of force of required but a lot of the time it's not needed

daveharnett

ScouseMouse wrote: »

Does what I SUSPECT matter ???

A court will decide whether a reasonable person, in your shoes, would have reasonable cause to be suspicious. If not, you may be guilty of false imprisonment, assault etc.

The Veteran

Immigration Officers in regard to non-nationals for the purposes of removal from the State or deportation or for being unlawfully present.

daveharnett

coylemj wrote: »

in the case of a (note the past tense) suspected offence, how far in the past can it be?

My understanding is that "citizen's arrest" is intended to be used only in urgent circumstances - the crime has just happened and there's an ongoing risk of harm/flight/loss of evidence.

It'll be up to a court to decide if the "arrester" could reasonably have reported the matter to AGS and waited for them to respond.

coylemj wrote: »

And what is an 'arrestable offence'?

An offence which ... may be punished by imprisonment for a term of five years [or more].

Pat Mustard

There are general powers of authorised persons under s.296 of the Fisheries Consolidation Act 1959 (as amended).

S.299 of the above act gives a power to authorised persons (see wider definition in the section) to apprehend offenders (as defined in the section) and to deliver them to Gardai.

S.301 of the above act describes powers of search, seizure and detention of goods etc., by authorised persons.

S.301 was amended by s.53 of the Fisheries Act 1980, which gives powers to authorised officers to take and detain boats and everyone on them and to use such force as he may consider necessary for the purpose of exercising that power.

Also note the following subsection of S.301:

(6) No authorised officer shall be liable for any loss or damage occasioned by or in the course of the exercise of any of the powers conferred on him by this section, whether such loss or damage occurs by reason of something done personally by such officer or by a person acting under his orders, unless such loss or damage was caused by him wantonly or maliciously.

Mech1

Quote
An offence which ... may be punished by imprisonment for a term of five years [or more]..Quote end.

Wow thats a important bit I didnt think of!

MarkAnthony

Gatling wrote: »

Detain but not arrest

Arrest. It's in the OP.

ScouseMouse

Mech1 wrote: »

Quote
An offence which ... may be punished by imprisonment for a term of five years [or more]..Quote end.

Wow thats a important bit I didnt think of!

So, I grab a fella who smashed a window / shoplifted something / punched someone, and handed them to the cops, but because they would not get 5 years, I am wrong?

I must be reading this wrong ????

ED E

Military Police have powers of arrest over members of the armed forces I'm pretty sure, OP doesnt specify members of the general public or not.


I know some Dept of Ag investigators have strong powers of search and seizure, wonder if that includes any clause to perform an arrest?

gctest50

ScouseMouse wrote: »

So, I grab a fella who smashed a window / shoplifted something / punched someone, and handed them to the cops, but because they would not get 5 years, I am wrong?

I must be reading this wrong ????

Absolute minefield

If someone battered their missus a bit and the Gardai arrived, they'd couldn't arrest him under section 2

( they were trying to change this obv.)

.

ED E

ScouseMouse wrote: »

So, I grab a fella who smashed a window / shoplifted something / punched someone, and handed them to the cops, but because they would not get 5 years, I am wrong?

I must be reading this wrong ????

"May".

6) A person guilty of theft is liable on conviction on indictment to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or both.

So if they are A) convicted of theft and sentenced to 6 months imprisonment they still could be counted under that clause as the offence was one which may incur greater than 5yrs.

MarkAnthony

daveharnett wrote: »

It'll be up to a court to decide if the "arrester" could reasonably have reported the matter to AGS and waited for them to respond.

While it's extremely unwise to arrest someone, that assertion is simply not backed up by the construction of the statutes involved.

Criminal Law Act 1997

4.—(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects to be in the act of committing an arrestable offence.

(2) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), where an arrestable offence has been committed, any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects to be guilty of the offence.

(3) Where a member of the Garda Síochána, with reasonable cause, suspects that an arrestable offence has been committed, he or she may arrest without warrant anyone whom the member, with reasonable cause, suspects to be guilty of the offence.

(4) An arrest other than by a member of the Garda Síochána may only be effected by a person under subsection (1) or (2) where he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects that the person to be arrested by him or her would otherwise attempt to avoid, or is avoiding, arrest by a member of the Garda Síochána.

(5) A person who is arrested pursuant to this section by a person other than a member of the Garda Síochána shall be transferred into the custody of the Garda Síochána as soon as practicable.

(6) This section shall not affect the operation of any enactment restricting the institution of proceedings for an offence or prejudice any power of arrest conferred by law apart from this section.

One can argue the standard set out in section 4, even better perhaps someone could link some case law. I'm far too lazy to do any meaningful research.

Interestingly in the case of criminal damage the power conferred to joe public is much wider.

Criminal Damage Act 1991

12.—(1) This section applies to an offence under this Act other than section 5 or 13 (4).

(2) Any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he, with reasonable cause, suspects to be in the act of committing an offence to which this section applies.

(3) Where an offence to which this section applies has been committed, any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he, with reasonable cause, suspects to be guilty of the offence.

(4) Where a member of the Garda Síochána, with reasonable cause, suspects that an offence to which this section applies or an offence under section 13 (4) has been committed, he may arrest without warrant anyone whom he, with reasonable cause, suspects to be guilty of the offence.

(5) A member of the Garda Síochána may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he, with reasonable cause, suspects to be about to commit an offence to which this section applies.

(6) For the purpose of arresting a person under any power conferred by this section a member of the Garda Síochána may enter (if need be, by force) and search any place where that person is or where the member, with reasonable cause, suspects him to be.

(7) This section shall apply to an attempt to commit an offence as it applies to the commission of that offence.

(8) This section shall not prejudice any power of arrest conferred by law apart from this section.

MarkAnthony

ScouseMouse wrote: »

So, I grab a fella who smashed a window / shoplifted something / punched someone, and handed them to the cops, but because they would not get 5 years, I am wrong?

I must be reading this wrong ????

Smashed a window - fine criminal damage, it doesn't need to be an arrestable offence.

Shoplifted - fine as theft is an arrestable offence. Interestingly if the offence committed fell under 'Making off without payment' you'd have an issue as it's not an arrestable offence.

Punched someone - it would depend on the level of the offence under the Non-fatal offences Against the Person Act.

dev100

daveharnett wrote:

By insisting that they stay put, physically blocking them from leaving, or sitting on them, as appropriate.

I don't think I'd be allowing that somehow unless your a female and blonde I'd possibly allow you sit on me then

Gatling wrote:

Usually it's quite easy depending on the situation your dealing with I come from the security industry so we're used to stopping and detaining shoplifters and people braking into sites , We never say your under arrest, though I've heard poorly trained security staff the use the "your under arrest for shoplifting line over the years " You can only use a minimum amount of force of required but a lot of the time it's not needed

Thanks for the answer .... I'm assuming minimum force is because you are leaving yourself open to legal situation if situation escalates ?

Mech1

So can you be charged with resisting arrest by anyone or just arrest by the gardai?

MarkAnthony

Mech1 wrote: »

So can you be charged with resisting arrest by anyone or just arrest by the gardai?

Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, 1994

19.—(1) Any person who—

(a) assaults a peace officer acting in the execution of the peace officer's duty, knowing that he is, or being reckless as to whether he is, a peace officer acting in the execution of his duty, or

(b) assaults any other person acting in the aid of a peace officer, or

(c) assaults any other person with intent to resist or prevent the lawful apprehension or detention of himself or any other person for any offence,

shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) shall be liable—

(a) having elected for summary disposal of the offence, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding £1,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months, or to both,

(b) on conviction on indictment, to a fine or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or to both.

(3) Any person who resists or wilfully obstructs a peace officer acting in the execution of his duty or a person assisting a peace officer in the execution of his duty, knowing that he is or being reckless as to whether he is, a peace officer acting in the execution of his duty, shall be guilty of an offence.

(4) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (3) shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both.

(5) The provisions of this section are in addition to and not in substitution of any provision in any other enactment relating to assault or obstruction of a peace officer.

(6) In this section—

“peace officer” means a member of the Garda Síochána, a prison officer or a member of the Defence Forces;

“prison” means any place for which rules or regulations may be made under the Prisons Acts, 1826 to 1980, section 7 of the Offences against the State (Amendment) Act, 1940 , section 233 of the Defence Act, 1954 , section 2 of the Prisoners of War and Enemy Aliens Act, 1956 , or section 13 of the Criminal Justice Act, 1960 ;

“prison officer” includes any member of the staff of a prison and any person having the custody of, or having duties in relation to the custody of, a person detained in prison.

relax carry on

Revenue & Customs have powers of arrest in multiple scenarios outlined in the below link. It's starts on page 45. Can't copy and paste them all on a mobile.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/s16/investigations-prosecutions-enforcement/enforcement/chapter-03.pdf

MarkAnthony

That should be your homework well and truly done for you OP :pac: