How come the Irish have no reputation in mainland Europe?

Mec27

Just back from France and tbh nobody has a clue about Ireland, we have zero footprint on France or mainland European culture. In France you have Portuguese Frenchies, Croatian Frenchies, Polish Frenchies, but zero Irish. When you go to America for example there is a level of connection that just does not exist a strone throws away. Everyone just thinks you are from 'Holland' and if they do know Ireland they just assume we are British.

ScumLord

Mec27 wrote: »

Just back from France and tbh nobody has a clue about Ireland, we have zero footprint on France or mainland European culture. In France you have Portuguese Frenchies, Croatian Frenchies, Polish Frenchies, but zero Irish. When you go to America for example there is a level of connection that just does not exist a strone throws away. Everyone just thinks you are from 'Holland' and if they do know Ireland they just assume we are British.

Did you try talking to more than one person? Because I had pretty much the exact opposite experience everywhere in Europe.

neil_

Irish people generally emigrated to other English speaking countries so those are the ones we have a cultural connection with

Spanish Eyes

They think we are English, yes you are right. In France if you say you are "Irladais/e they hear "Hollandais/e" and, again, you are correct in many instances.

When they hear us speaking English they make the assumption, it's that simple.

The one place that I was acknowledged as IRISH was in South West France, ah yes, rugby country, so they figured my nationality out because they have seen many Irish at the games!

Winterlong

Sure there are loads of Irish bars in them foreign countries.

Chijj

Same way Irish People assume that any Latvian, Lithuanian, Slovakian person etc are Polish.

They probably don't give a ****e where you are from and just want your money

Mec27

Winterlong wrote: »

Sure there are loads of Irish bars in them foreign countries.

I think those bars run with the whole 'anglo' sthtick and they are popular among locals so it might explain the confusion among people who do actually know Ireland exists.

Spanish Eyes

And another thing, ROI is a pimple on an elephant. We are nothing to them except, as Chijj above said except for our tourist euros.

We would want to get over our hubris and just enjoy ourselves when abroad. It's not important that they figure out we are from Ballygobackwards or wherever. It is what it is.

Mec27

Chijj wrote: »

Same way Irish People assume that any Latvian, Lithuanian, Slovakian person etc are Polish.

They probably don't give a ****e where you are from and just want your money

LMAO waiters/waitresses in france couldn't give a **** to even get into small talk pleasantries to begin with. You know in Ireland you'd get some waiter being chatty, those Frenchies just don't bother. I made a big attempt to come out with a pretty complex sentence, and all I got was a ''Ouai''

catbear

Once I handed open a fiver to a vender in Rome for a can of coke and he wasn't giving me change. I said Ireland, he apologized, thought I was english and gave me back three euros.

Seriously being under the radar in Europe is a huge advantage.

Icaras

U.S. And uk are more desirable (generally) for irish emigrating. That said I know groups of irish in France, Belgium and Holland. Not huge groups and I think irish are more willing to integrate than certain other cultures (I.e. Irish person willing to have a long term relationship with a foreign person) probably a case of irish grass is greener...

andekwarhola

To be fair, even for countries like America (and to a lesser extent, Australia) with large historical associations with Ireland, you have a profound but chimerical perception of Ireland that looms large in the imagination but is often combined with a distinct paucity of actual knowledge about the place, geographical and otherwise, so it's not surprising that many Europeans are the same.

Like it or not, to most large countries, we are considered - in terms of culture, language and economy - as being largely indistinct from England.

Dr Strange

Interestingly in Brittany they know very well how to distinguish the Irish, very welcome there.

whatdoicare

In Australia, despite all the Irish living there, everyone thinks Ireland is in the UK. I've had many the conversation with people when I lived there who insist that Ireland is in England and therefore part of the UK.

I've had the same talk with some Americans too.:rolleyes:

Ireland is a teeny tiny island - most websites don't even consider us important enough to give us our own webshop and lump us in with the uk and the British pound, which is just very annoying but that's just how it is.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Father always tells a story of being in Sweden in the 70s where he met countless people who would stare blankly at him when he'd tell he was from Ireland. With NI being in the news so often in those days he found it very odd.

He kept a pocket diary with a map of Europe in it and he'd use that to point out the country to people. They'd reply with England or UK??

Always said he found the Swedes very cold and extremely unlikeable.

Mec27

andekwarhola wrote: »

To be fair, even for countries like America (and to a lesser extent, Australia) with large historical associations with Ireland, you have a profound but chimerical perception of Ireland that looms large in the imagination but is often combined with a distinct paucity of actual knowledge about the place, geographical and otherwise, so it's not surprising that many Europeans are the same.

Like it or not, to most large countries, we are considered - in terms of culture, language and economy - as being largely indistinct from England.

Legit we overstate our global footprint, its pretty much confined to England the north east coast of america.


That's true about the Bretons, especially those Bretons who maintain a sense of their cultural heritage.

H3llR4iser

Chijj wrote: »

Same way Irish People assume that any Latvian, Lithuanian, Slovakian person etc are Polish.

They probably don't give a ****e where you are from and just want your money

Exactly - I know Romanians and Latvians who get exactly this type of reaction here. Also, I found out that Italians, Spanish, Greek and Portuguese often get confused for one another quite a bit in the British Isles.

Finally, "Dutch" must be the go-to nationality when somebody recognizes you're a foreigner but can't place you on the map; I regularly get it - having no "typical" Italian accent, being taller than average and quite fair skinned, people never manage to guess my whereabouts and go "you must be Dutch!" instead

catbear wrote: »

Once I handed open a fiver to a vender in Rome for a can of coke and he wasn't giving me change. I said Ireland, he apologized, thought I was english and gave me back three euros.

Seriously being under the radar in Europe is a huge advantage.

Oh no, they try their hand at it all the time - especially with tourists who might be unfamiliar with the Euro notes/coins - there was a case of Rome Taxi drivers scamming US tourists claiming that the 50 they handed them was actually a 10...

So if he understood you at all, he figured out you'd know the notes as well as he did. Or, he might just chance his arm anyway - if you were French, he'd have said "thought you were Belgian!". Never trust street vendors, taxi drivers and shopkeepers in Italy; In Rome, doubly so!

Icaras wrote: »

U.S. And uk are more desirable (generally) for irish emigrating. That said I know groups of irish in France, Belgium and Holland. Not huge groups and I think irish are more willing to integrate than certain other cultures (I.e. Irish person willing to have a long term relationship with a foreign person) probably a case of irish grass is greener...

I'm not sure I get what you're saying...in my experience, Irish people are actually quite open and curious about other cultures, especially the European ones. I know quite a few mixed Irish-nonIrish couples, I've dated Irish women myself.

Icaras

H3llR4iser wrote: »

I'm not sure I get what you're saying...in my experience, Irish people are actually quite open and curious about other cultures, especially the European ones. I know quite a few mixed Irish-nonIrish couples, I've dated Irish women myself.

Thats what I was trying to say. I think Irish people are will to try other cultures, whereas other cultures try to "keep to their own" (obviously this is a very general stereotype), for example I know a few Italian guys - theyll shag anything that moves but their only consideration for marriage is a nice Italian girl.

Mec27

It might be because of the immigration, I imagine most immigrants to mainland europe would have been educated so they weren't arriving en masse into the cities. Also wiki says 3 million people on mainland europe are of Irish descent(first, second, third) and also the 45 million figure for irish in america is wrong and over skewed, I reckon the number is closer to like 20 million.

Mec27

Also can someone tell me how so many australians/americans work in europe in hostels? do they need a visa to do short term work? I was surprised there were no brits or irish working, just ''foreigners''(EU context)

Lyaiera

Dr Strange wrote: »

Interestingly in Brittany they know very well how to distinguish the Irish, very welcome there.

Aye. It depends entirely on where you go and who you're dealing with. It's the same in the Basque country where there's a big connection with Ireland. I've been in plenty of places in Frances where they'd say, "English?" And I'd say, "No, Irish," and their eyes would light up and smile.

Similarly in German there were a huge amount of Irish working in the big cities, especially Berlin in the early nineties.

bobbysands81

Mec27 wrote: »

Just back from France and tbh nobody has a clue about Ireland, we have zero footprint on France or mainland European culture. In France you have Portuguese Frenchies, Croatian Frenchies, Polish Frenchies, but zero Irish. When you go to America for example there is a level of connection that just does not exist a strone throws away. Everyone just thinks you are from 'Holland' and if they do know Ireland they just assume we are British.

We're a tiny nation on the periphery of Europe which punches way above its weight in the international community and has played a significant role in shaping the world.

IvyTheTerrible

OP, maybe you were dealing with people who were busy and didn't have time for chit chat?
I live in France and I've had the opposite experience to you.

H3llR4iser

Icaras wrote: »

Thats what I was trying to say. I think Irish people are will to try other cultures, whereas other cultures try to "keep to their own" (obviously this is a very general stereotype), for example I know a few Italian guys - theyll shag anything that moves but their only consideration for marriage is a nice Italian girl.

:D:D...Shame there's no "falling off the chair laughing" emoticon here, 'coz it'd represent me quite perfectly right now :P

But yeah, I know what I mean. Italians are particularly bad for locking themselves down into "communities", at best mixing up with Spanish people due to sheer similarity. It's not something I honestly approve of, if I wanted to be exclusively amongst Italians I'd have stayed in Italy. And let me not even enter the merit of the "nice Italian girl", or I'd be here forever.

Lyaiera

H3llR4iser wrote: »

And let me not even enter the merit of the "nice Italian girl", or I'd be here forever.

The many, "nice Italian girls," I've met here left Italy because they want nothing to do with Italian "men." The primary complaint seems to be they depend on their mammies, and are looking for a woman to take over the mammy role while also providing the odd shag.

HalloweenJack

Warning: Generalisations abound in this post!

IME in Spain, Spaniards generally don't know about the political situation of the UK and the Republic of Ireland. Spain is a country that is fairly insular and is very much focused on what goes on in Spain first and foremost. They may have a passing interest in international politics but wouldn't have too much in-depth knowledge.

They seem to think that Ireland is an entity of the UK, like England or Scotland, similar to the situation they have with Basques, Catalans and Galicians who, while being different cultures and, in the case of Basques and Catalans being very separatist, are still legally part of Spain.

Most don't have a clue about NI. I've also lost count of the times I've been asked if Queen Elizabeth is the queen of the Republic of Ireland is. Frequently, all of us from the UK and Ireland are lumped into one grouping, "ingles", which can refer to English-speakers of any persuasion but usually Irish, English, Scots and Welsh as if we were from different regions of the same country (similar to the situation they have there). If they are interested in further generalisations, we are lumped in with all "people of the North" (Scandinavians, Finns, Germans, Dutch, English) and seen all as heavy drinkers with white skin, fair hair and being very serious.

Basques and Catalans tend to know the difference, owing to their political interests.

Again, this post is a massive generalisation.

pickarooney

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

OP, maybe you were dealing with people who were busy and didn't have time for chit chat?
I live in France and I've had the opposite experience to you.

Or in a different part. The OP's description is very familiar to me.

acc2016

To be fair I have been stopped on the street in London by a girl selling for a charity and she genuinely thought Ireland was part of the UK.

She wanted me to sign up to donate by text and I said it probably wouldn't work since I have an Irish number and she said "no its okay, Ireland is part of the UK".

wakka12

Why would people really care where you're from when you hardly care where others are from? If you hear a black person speaking a non european language you say theyre 'african' if you hear a person speaking an eastern european language you don't know well you call them Polish or eastern european and the majority of people couldn't even tell a korean,japanese and chinese apart based on accent appearance customs or language and then irish people get pissed when somebody in europe thinks you're english or scottish a very similar nearby island

Mec27

Funny thing(well not funny) but the English and French look far more alike than English and Irish.

H3llR4iser

Lyaiera wrote: »

The many, "nice Italian girls," I've met here left Italy because they want nothing to do with Italian "men." The primary complaint seems to be they depend on their mammies, and are looking for a woman to take over the mammy role while also providing the odd shag.

They have a point, absolutely - I am the first one to get quite a bit dismayed when I see some friends or even family members having a similar attitude.

But you are getting one side of the debate; If you get past the "mafia movies" stereotypes, you'll find out that Italian society is profoundly matriarchal. The women are the effective leaders of the family, and very often the men are little more than a walking ATM. Most young women simply expect to be put on a pedestal, never have to pay for anything and so on; they basically rate men based on "what can he do for me?". You can easily see it even in young couples - the guy kind of looks like some sort of "personal assistant" for his girlfriend. I don't expect anybody who hasn't seen or experienced it firsthand to fully get the picture.

Also, a word of warning - are you aware about what these "nice girls" think about Ireland, the Irish and Irish women in the specific? A huge part of my disagreement in defining them "nice" actually revolves exactly around this. I've heard...way less than flattering stuff coming out of the mouths of "nice Italian girls" when they talk about their Irish colleagues and friends. As I've said in a different thread, I've actually told other Italians the classic "you don't like it here, go back to Italy". Quite funny, I know...I sincerely hope you had the luck to meet properly nice ones (because there are some).

For laughs, have you ever had a discussion about the "Holy Grail" of Italian society, the bidet, with them?

mikhail

wakka12 wrote: »

Why would people really care where you're from when you hardly care where others are from? If you hear a black person speaking a non european language you say theyre 'african' if you hear a person speaking an eastern european language you don't know well you call them Polish or eastern european and the majority of people couldn't even tell a korean,japanese and chinese apart based on accent appearance customs or language and then irish people get pissed when somebody in europe thinks you're english or scottish a very similar nearby island

You're making a lot of assumptions about an anonymous stranger on the internet there.

Spanish Eyes

We think we have more impact on other countries than we actually have. No one cares really.

Hubris almighty. Get over yerselves.

But be proud and accepting of reality just the same!

Omackeral

Mec27 wrote: »

LMAO waiters/waitresses in france couldn't give a **** to even get into small talk pleasantries to begin with. You know in Ireland you'd get some waiter being chatty, those Frenchies just don't bother. I made a big attempt to come out with a pretty complex sentence, and all I got was a ''Ouai''

In general, Irish people expect English to be spoken to them at home and abroad. It's easy for an Irish waiter to be chatty in his own language. I know you said you attempted to converse en francais, but overall we don't bother our bollocks when abroad. I remember being heckled at Euro 2012 for ordering my lunch and beers in Polish by a load of Irish fans. Then these same fellas in their drunken slurs asking for Bulmers in the thickest Dub and Culchie accents and the servers having no clue what they're on about. Boils my blood.

Mec27

Omackeral wrote: »

In general, Irish people expect English to be spoken to them at home and abroad. It's easy for an Irish waiter to be chatty in his own language. I know you said you attempted to converse en francais, but overall we don't bother our bollocks when abroad. I remember being heckled at Euro 2012 for ordering my lunch and beers in Polish by a load of Irish fans. Then these same fellas in their drunken slurs asking for Bulmers in the thickest Dub and Culchie accents and the servers having no clue what they're on about. Boils my blood.

Sure there is defo that but interactions are different over there. I'd go into a shop in Ireland be like hey hows it going man? That would be absurd to say in France. Addressing someone as 'man' would just be way too informal for them. They want your order with a 'sil vous plait, and Voila, GET OUT.

Lyaiera

H3llR4iser wrote: »

They have a point, absolutely - I am the first one to get quite a bit dismayed when I see some friends or even family members having a similar attitude.

But you are getting one side of the debate; If you get past the "mafia movies" stereotypes, you'll find out that Italian society is profoundly matriarchal. The women are the effective leaders of the family, and very often the men are little more than a walking ATM. Most young women simply expect to be put on a pedestal, never have to pay for anything and so on; they basically rate men based on "what can he do for me?". You can easily see it even in young couples - the guy kind of looks like some sort of "personal assistant" for his girlfriend. I don't expect anybody who hasn't seen or experienced it firsthand to fully get the picture.

Also, a word of warning - are you aware about what these "nice girls" think about Ireland, the Irish and Irish women in the specific? A huge part of my disagreement in defining them "nice" actually revolves exactly around this. I've heard...way less than flattering stuff coming out of the mouths of "nice Italian girls" when they talk about their Irish colleagues and friends. As I've said in a different thread, I've actually told other Italians the classic "you don't like it here, go back to Italy". Quite funny, I know...I sincerely hope you had the luck to meet properly nice ones (because there are some).

For laughs, have you ever had a discussion about the "Holy Grail" of Italian society, the bidet, with them?

Yeah, you're right, the women I know aren't "nice Italian girls TM" they're actually nice Italian people who left due to the whole matriarchal thing. They want an equal relationship, they don't want to be someone's mammy, and they don't want their BF to be providing everything for them or putting them on a pedestal.

It's interesting, and a really Catholic Mediterranean thing as well. I've heard similar things from Spanish friends, about how their Mammies are in charge no matter what. And both Italians and Spanish see some evidence of it in Ireland, but with added sexual repression. I imagine Ireland would have turned out a lot like Italy if we didn't speak English (and therefore have access to UK and US media) and if we were more open sexually in the past.

They are absolutely stunned when Irish women complain about street harassment. Not that it doesn't happen here, because it has happened to them here. They're more shocked about the level it happens here, which they say is far, far lower than in their hometowns.

Spanish Eyes

Dr Strange wrote: »

Interestingly in Brittany they know very well how to distinguish the Irish, very welcome there.

That is because they are Celts like Cornwall and ourselves. No wonder they love us. Have you ever heard their bagpipes?

They have an amazing Inter Celtic festival in Lorient too every year. Who'd a thunk it?

http://www.festival-interceltique.bzh/

riffmongous

For the central euorpean countries I couldn't disagree more to be honest, Germans and Austrians are very familiar with Ireland, although I have encountered some confusion due to northern ireland most are very fond of Ireland . The amount of people who have actually visited too often surprises me.

I'd go so far as to say there is no other country I would rather tell people I am from

Lyaiera

riffmongous wrote: »

For the central euorpean countries I couldn't disagree more to be honest, Germans and Austrians are very familiar with Ireland, although I have encountered some confusion due to northern ireland most are very fond of Ireland . The amount of people who have actually visited too often surprises me.

I'd go so far as to say there is no other country I would rather tell people I am from

A friend of mine kept a German blog about his experiences of living in Ireland. It had hundreds of thousands of clicks a month from Germans. He's writing a book now on how to successfully immigrate to Ireland, and get set up here.

catbear

riffmongous wrote: »

For the central euorpean countries I couldn't disagree more to be honest, Germans and Austrians are very familiar with Ireland, although I have encountered some confusion due to northern ireland most are very fond of Ireland . The amount of people who have actually visited too often surprises me.

That is supposedly down to Heinrich Boll. Hugely popular writer in the 50s and 60s. Germans looked on Ireland as untouched by industrialization and signified a european folk innocence that people craved after the wars.

riffmongous

Lyaiera wrote: »

A friend of mine kept a German blog about his experiences of living in Ireland. It had hundreds of thousands of clicks a month from Germans. He's writing a book now on how to successfully immigrate to Ireland, and get set up here.

There is even a good demand for Irish products, Irish pubs are always full (more so with locals than expats), you get Guinness and Kilkenny and whiskey in every decent supermarket and in the last year a lot of Irish cheese and butter has come has become available, which I am very happy with, now if we could just get some beef and lamb that would be great.

riffmongous

catbear wrote: »

That is supposedly down to Heinrich Boll. Hugely popular writer in the 50s and 60s. Germans looked on Ireland as untouched by industrialization and signified a european folk innocence that people craved after the wars.

Sure even Otto Skorzeny himself came here to enjoy the countryside. But yeah the Irisches Tagebuch was pretty well known alright

IvyTheTerrible

Mec27 wrote: »

Sure there is defo that but interactions are different over there. I'd go into a shop in Ireland be like hey hows it going man? That would be absurd to say in France. Addressing someone as 'man' would just be way too informal for them. They want your order with a 'sil vous plait, and Voila, GET OUT.

Well if you don't "vousvoie" someone you don't know in the service industry, and call them "mec", it makes you sound like a skanger and it's no wonder they're not being chatty.

topmanamillion

I think we buy into a lot of our own myths. Particularly everyone thinks we're great craic & everyone's obsessed about Ireland.
While Irelands a nice country, it's a small island of 5 million or so people. We're just not as big of a deal as we'd like to think.

wakka12

mikhail wrote: »

You're making a lot of assumptions about an anonymous stranger on the internet there.

Umm have you seen this thread? generalisation central

Daisy78

whatdoicare wrote: »

In Australia, despite all the Irish living there, everyone thinks Ireland is in the UK. I've had many the conversation with people when I lived there who insist that Ireland is in England and therefore part of the UK.

I'm in Italy at the moment, met an Australian lady at one of the local train stations and got chatting as you do. It went something like this:

Her: So where are you guys from?
Me: Ireland
Her: Ireland? What about Brexit, what are you lot gonna do now eh? I here you get a lotta gypsies over there.
Me: Ah no, well we didn't vote for it so not a problem.
Her: But didn't youse vote to leave?
Me: Nope Britain did.
Cue look of bewilderment and end of conversation. Still don't know what the reference to the gypsies was all about.

catbear

My favorite line to australians when they asked if i was there because the potato failed again was 'nah, my sentence is up next year so i get to go home. you?"

Mec27

Daisy78 wrote: »

I'm in Italy at the moment, met an Australian lady at one of the local train stations and got chatting as you do. It went something like this:

Her: So where are you guys from?
Me: Ireland
Her: Ireland? What about Brexit, what are you lot gonna do now eh? I here you get a lotta gypsies over there.
Me: Ah no, well we didn't vote for it so not a problem.
Her: But didn't youse vote to leave?
Me: Nope Britain did.
Cue look of bewilderment and end of conversation. Still don't know what the reference to the gypsies was all about.

Haah why were you so unnecessarily equivocal in your response. She clearly had no idea Ireland was not part of Britain so if you had just said it won't have an impact on us because we are a republic, an EU member regardless of what they do.

Zxclnic

Daisy78 wrote: »

I'm in Italy at the moment, met an Australian lady at one of the local train stations and got chatting as you do. It went something like this:

Her: So where are you guys from?
Me: Ireland
Her: Ireland? What about Brexit, what are you lot gonna do now eh? I here you get a lotta gypsies over there.
Me: Ah no, well we didn't vote for it so not a problem.
Her: But didn't youse vote to leave?
Me: Nope Britain did.
Cue look of bewilderment and end of conversation. Still don't know what the reference to the gypsies was all about.

She was almost certainly a Dub taking the pìss. The reference to The Gypsies was probably a nod to Bohemian Football Club, as for the use of 'youse' for a second person plural...well game set and match.
Aussie my arsè!

RDM_83 again

Lyaiera wrote: »

It's interesting, and a really Catholic Mediterranean thing as well. I've heard similar things from Spanish friends, about how their Mammies are in charge no matter what. And both Italians and Spanish see some evidence of it in Ireland, but with added sexual repression. I imagine Ireland would have turned out a lot like Italy if we didn't speak English (and therefore have access to UK and US media) and if we were more open sexually in the past.

They are absolutely stunned when Irish women complain about street harassment. Not that it doesn't happen here, because it has happened to them here. They're more shocked about the level it happens here, which they say is far, far lower than in their hometowns.

We're like the Poles then apart from we're shorter and don't do as much weights!

2nd part is definitely true from what I've heard from Italian friends, I do think there is a major cultural difference with the Italians from most other Europeans having worked with a lot, they argue so much and an argument can be needed to change their opinion, its not bad once you get used to it but its definitely something a lot of the other nationalities that I work with too have commented on (English, Germans, Poles, Hungarians)