How to approach this

Forever21

Hi all need some advice on how to approach my neighbours about water from his shower that he put in on the boundary in the backyard right by the foundation is causing a little dampness in corner of dining end of my kitchen. I want to sort it out in a friendly way as I've got to live here next to them & don't want to fall out with them but need to sort it before it gets any worse . They built an extension a few years back and moved their shower . Here's a pic of the shower image.jpeg
Mods please move if I've posted in wrong forum .

Steve

Hard to tell what the pic is. Is that an open drain?

A shower has to go to a foul drain.

Apart from that, have you tried politely telling them that you have an issue?

Forever21

Sorry if I'm spelling shower wrong, it's the waste from their kitchen sink and drain pipe on the wall next to my kitchen, here's a picture of the extension if you can imagine the shower next to the fence & it seems when it overflows the water is just lodging as has nowhere to go . I pointed it out politely the other day to them after I was taking up porcelain tiles & saw & smelt the dampness slightly. His answer was its grand it must be a leak I have in a pipe under the ground but I pointed out I've no pipes whatsoever at that end of the room .
image.jpeg

Todd Toddington III

It's a gully, not a shore (which seems to be an uncommon dublin specific word). Looks like it's not finished properly, his builder is obliged to fix it. however I'd be more concerned with his gutter and eves overhanging the common boundary. Could create some lovely problems down the line if either of you want to sell

Forever21

Here's a picture of the full extension, I just want him to sort the water so it won't cause rising damp but he's insisting he has no access to get at it , I've told him he can come into my back & lift the fence panel but don't think he's too bothered really.
image.jpeg

Steve

You're getting in to an area best dealt with by a solicitor and engineers report. You'll get random opinions here but I think you need to consider long term implications on the value and security of your property.

Todd Toddington III

Jesus, some extension. I'd go mad if someone did that next to my boundary fence. But anyway. Back to your problem. Tell him nicely but forcefully that you want it fixed by his builder and you can provide access as needed. Those pictures show me it's a poorly done job, it looks like some of the exterior walls below ground level to both houses have been removed to fit the gully? Am I correct in this? I was a groundworks civil engineer for 7 years so to leave a "finished" job looking like this is rubbish workmanship and lazy at best. If he does nothing after asking nicely, give him a week then tell him, again pleasently, you'll be getting an engineers report done and will be involving a solicitor. Emphasis you don't want a falling out but neither will you accept his blasé attitude. It's just laziness on your neighbours part to do nothing, won't cost him a bob it's all on the builder

Forever21

i agree completely. We were not here for 6 weeks when it was been done as we were up in crumlin with our son , going to pop in Monday & say we're not happy & let him know it needs to be fixed & access can be had any time

Todd Toddington III

Good luck with it.

Bonzo Delaney

Keep things pleasant and call his bluff if he doesn't sort it and your 100% sure it could only be the drain which I reckon it is as waste water is only partly going into the gully and the rest is lodging in the ground and soaking up through the rising walls on both properties.
Mention that you had an engineer out and they have pinpointed it to the poorly finished drain and if it's not sorted you'll have no choice to go down an official route. The slightest mention of a solicitor should get him moving lively as unless he has a massive back garden planning could be an issue there. Or do you know if full planning was obtained for that structure.

Todd Toddington III

Bonzo Delaney wrote:

The slightest mention of a solicitor should get him moving lively as unless he has a massive back garden planning could be an issue there. Or do you know if full planning was obtained for that structure.

Planning isn't required for single story, under 40m2 and not visible from the street

fred funk }{

Forever21 wrote: »

Hi all need some advice on how to approach my neighbours about water from his shower that he put in on the boundary in the backyard right by the foundation is causing a little dampness in corner of dining end of my kitchen. I want to sort it out in a friendly way as I've got to live here next to them & don't want to fall out with them but need to sort it before it gets any worse . They built an extension a few years back and moved their shower . Here's a pic of the shower image.jpeg
Mods please move if I've posted in wrong forum .

Without anything else, there's enough in that picture to fill ten pages of posts in here. Who would leave something like that?

policarp

Forever21 wrote: »

Hi all need some advice on how to approach my neighbours about water from his shower that he put in on the boundary in the backyard right by the foundation is causing a little dampness in corner of dining end of my kitchen. I want to sort it out in a friendly way as I've got to live here next to them & don't want to fall out with them but need to sort it before it gets any worse . They built an extension a few years back and moved their shower . Here's a pic of the shower image.jpeg
Mods please move if I've posted in wrong forum .

It looks like more than a permitted extension, without permission

.Ask his architect
If no architect, job isn't legal.

Bonzo Delaney

Todd Toddington III wrote: »

Planning isn't required for single story, under 40m2 and not visible from the street

True. But that looks bigger imo (could be wrong) and I'd be curious about the required 25sqm of rear garden space left undeveloped.

Forever21

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

True. But that looks bigger imo (could be wrong) and I'd be curious about the required 25sqm of rear garden space left undeveloped.

Just went out the back now to lift the fence & sure enough water is lodged around the ground as has nowhere to go to so think il pop in next door in about a hour as don't want to be knocking too early on a Saturday morning. Here's a view from my bedroom window of the extension.

image.jpeg

Todd Toddington III

Ffs I'd be getting an engineers report regardless...that's a retention order right there, I'd be fuming at what your neighbour has built.

Mango Joe

Ha? If you live in an estate is your crap neighbour really allowed build a branch of the Radisson up to a millimetre away from your property unopposed and unrestricted?

If it was me Id be livid. Hope you and your family are ok once more on the health front and best of luck with it all.

PS Just to add - you may need to get angry and be very definite and firm, some people were just born ****s.

Calahonda52

This may help you in terms of access and negotiations
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/act/27/section/43/enacted/en/html

While it is a crap job on the sewer, I am a bit puzzled as to how damp is getting into your house above the DPC in the walls, there may be another issue and you are missing it
can y remove the panel and throw up a few pictures..

My guess its the rain water downpipes that is flooding the area as opposed to the shower.
Assuming the the sewer is actually working, then its an easy fix and I would consider you just getting it fixed, its not a big job for someone who knows what to do. The link above shows you don't need their consent to "protect your property, if they refuse, you can go to court

Re the Ramboesque suggestions here, I disagree: you clearly have enough else on your plate and you don't need stress you can't control or work on.
It will be 2k for a solicitor to open a file, you might get it fixed yourself for 200

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

The Royal Scam

Patww79 wrote: »

Are the gutters hanging over your fence into your garden? That couldn't be right.

What a monstrosity to have build beside you. Did he ever tell you his plans to do an extension this size? Can you slide up the fence panels? If so I presume the boundary impeachment is not the case.

Bonzo Delaney

Id hold my planning permission cards close to my chest for the moment only to be used if things turned real nasty

The problem is the poor finish in the gully
A fairy simple and easy problem to sort out
All that needed is a few fittings and a half barrow of concrete to tidy up the rain water down pipe and the grey water pipe flowing in to the gully
The two going together is another issue but once sorted won't be your problem
It's a bad set up because if the gully blocked up its then it becomes a problem for your property
They should of rerouted it to an accessible side of the building
What you have there is unacceptable building practice.

Forever21

Ok all just back from the neighbours & it didn't go to well. Explained the situation & was told that it's fine as last year he got the gully unblocked when we were away ., he said they lifted the top fence panel & came into my yard to get it unblocked. When I asked how they managed to lift the panel by the house wall as it can only be lifted approximately a foot as the drain pipe blocks it from going up any further he said they took off the drainpipe. Told him nicely that it needs to be sorted as don't want dampness in my house as with a wheelchair bound son I don't want him to be sick. He said I was over reacting that it's like that for the last 6years & he has no problem. Don't like hassle so told him if he don't fix it I'll be getting some one myself to fix it as it looks like the builders did dig down under the path that was there to put in the gully that never was there before the extension. Guess what his brother was the builder & he the neighbour drew up the drawings himself as he likes to be ahead of times he said with his house. Lol!!! Looking back now we must have spent nearly a year that time travelling up & down to crumlin & never bothered asking questions when they said they were extending a small piece out the back, feel like a fool now. Anyway excuse my ignorance but can only post one picture at a time so will upload them one by one . Think I'll just leave it a week & if he don't do anything then I'm just going to see can I get it fixed myself.
image.jpeg

Forever21

image.jpegHere's another

Forever21

image.jpegHere's another

Forever21

Here's another image.jpeg

Forever21

image.jpegHere's another & if you look to the ground you can see the water which seems to be a grey shadow on the camera

Todd Toddington III

****in cowboys....if it was me I'd drag these boyos through the courts and have that monstrosity taken down. But that will cost ya cash

Forever21

Todd Toddington III wrote: »

****in cowboys....if it was me I'd drag these boyos through the courts and have that monstrosity taken down. But that will cost ya cash

It would indeed but I'd prefer to hand out the €200-€300 myself rather than go down that road as wouldn't have that kinda cash to hand over . Tell you one thing I won't be had by cowboys again neighbours or no neighbours, this ****er thinks he knows everything, he lays carpets for a living & said he knows a lot !!!! About building, god help all you guys on here that know your stuff when ye come against the likes of this.

Todd Toddington III

As a matter of interest, are your sewers combined? As in is there only one sewer on the road that takes foul and storm water?? Cos if he's discharging storm water into a foul drain a quick call to the council would he very interesting

Ronin247

I would hesitate to do anything about this myself as it may remove any legal recourse you have at a later date.

e.g. If it turns out that the foundation was incorrectly done and it causes subsidence on your property then you may be blamed, because you have employed a builder to alter the original works .

Of course, I am sure that the foundations were properly done. ...

Calahonda52

Todd Toddington III wrote: »

****in cowboys....if it was me I'd drag these boyos through the courts and have that monstrosity taken down. But that will cost ya cash

That is very bad advice without all the facts.

OP that drain looks blocked, without seeing any further my guess is that it may not go anywhere, other than a french drain for rainwater and now that the shower is it is getting blocked.

As I said before the cause and effect may not that be obvious here so.

From a planning and building regs perspective, it is never acceptable that a gully like that can only be accessed from your garden.

Todd Toddington III

I have plenty of facts, photographs showing an extension built too close to and over hanging the common boundary. This is an illegal build as far as I'm concerned and an engineer/architect would no doubt confirm this in writing. Get off your high horse

Forever21

Calahonda52 wrote: »

That is very bad advice without all the facts.

OP that drain looks blocked, without seeing any further my guess is that it may not go anywhere, other than a french drain for rainwater and now that the shower is it is getting blocked.

As I said before the cause and effect may not that be obvious here so.

From a planning and building regs perspective, it is never acceptable that a gully like that can only be accessed from your garden.

I said that to the neighbours calahonda52 today but think it fell on deaf ears. That gully was never there before , his kitchen sink is running into it along with the drainpipe, the gully used to be at the other side of his house when he had his kitchen at that side so now his kitchen is to the front of house & so it's running into that gully which I think is connected back across the yard under the extension into the original manhole if you know what I mean , sorry if I sound silly.

Forever21

Todd Toddington III wrote: »

As a matter of interest, are your sewers combined? As in is there only one sewer on the road that takes foul and storm water?? Cos if he's discharging storm water into a foul drain a quick call to the council would he very interesting

I'm not sure but we have all have our own manholes if that's any help

Todd Toddington III

Forever21 wrote:

I'm not sure but we have all have our own manholes if that's any help

I reckon an engineer is the best option here... €200 spend now will give you plenty of answers

Bonzo Delaney

Calahonda 52
The DPC issue did cross my mind earlier also but as with those houses the corner and jointing detail wouldn't of been anything to write home about and couple that with all the rain water run off that section of roof getting trapped in that area ,and missing the gully completely the ground there would be saturated there. Thus any fault on the DPC woul let water penetrate past beyond floor level.
Unfortunately for the op they've enough on their plate with out having to deal with a prick to boot as he already knows there's s problem there if it needed to be cleared already by entering the property with out permission.
I'd feel like sorting the problem myself and live the quite life while the bad man in me is also suggesting while sorting the problem with the rain water is to pump the kitchen waste with expanding foam !!! But I'm not a bad man and wouldn't do that or suggest it be done otherwise.

Calahonda52

Forever21 wrote: »

I said that to the neighbours calahonda52 today but think it fell on deaf ears. That gully was never there before , his kitchen sink is running into it along with the drainpipe, the gully used to be at the other side of his house when he had his kitchen at that side so now his kitchen is to the front of house & so it's running into that gully which I think is connected back across the yard under the extension into the original manhole if you know what I mean , sorry if I sound silly.

No, that all makes sense, if its the kitchen sink, then grease is an issue and my guess is the falls are not enough either.

Calahonda52

Todd Toddington III wrote: »

I have plenty of facts, photographs showing an extension built too close to and over hanging the common boundary. This is an illegal build as far as I'm concerned and an engineer/architect would no doubt confirm this in writing. Get off your high horse

TT IV:
The LA will not make them remove the gutters, etc, you can have all the pictures in the world but lack of enforcement by the LA is the issue: provide evidence of cases where you have achieved enforcement on gutter overhang and I will get on my horse.

Todd Toddington III

Calahonda52 wrote:

TT IV: The LA will not make them remove the gutters, etc, you can have all the pictures in the world but lack of enforcement by the LA is the issue: provide evidence of cases where you have achieved enforcement on gutter overhang and I will get on my horse.

So what you're saying is because of a perceived lack of enforcement by the LA the op should just take whatever the neighbour throws at him? There are regulations governing how close you can build to a common boundary, this construction clearly breaches these. The fact they're discharging storm water into a foul pipe will be a big issue for the LA if the sewers aren't combined.

Op, ignore this guy, get an engineers report and go from there. Don't remedy the works yourself as this is your neighbours property and he may try to pin the problems on you

Calahonda52

Looking for some advice here:

Looking at the pictures, my guess is that this extension spans 7 by 1.8m wood lap panels, which would make it about 12.5 meters, so 40/12.5 wont do much so I would guess its over the 40 so may be worth looking at the planning file online.

Op: maybe you can help us with that measurement of how many panels.

OP, there is a change in the roof profile of the extension about half way down: can you post a picture please showing it from your garden

Op: I think you you mentioned somewhere a time scale of 6 years: put on your thinking cap and try get a accurate time scale for initial construction as dates are important for enforcement.

Op, AFAIR, your first post mentions a shower outlet as being new, but other posts suggest its the kitchen sink, perhaps as well: can you, as best you can, clarify that

Mod:
Any chance of aggregating all the pictures into one post

Forever21

Ok 7& half panels & across the full width of house excluding the garage space which is approximately 19ft , time wise it was October 2010 when it was started. Sorry every time I go to put more than foto up I lose the one I put up first , not very technical!!

FrancieBrady

Might be of use Forever21
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055376129

Forever21

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Looking for some advice here:

Looking at the pictures, my guess is that this extension spans 7 by 1.8m wood lap panels, which would make it about 12.5 meters, so 40/12.5 wont do much so I would guess its over the 40 so may be worth looking at the planning file online.

Op: maybe you can help us with that measurement of how many panels.

OP, there is a change in the roof profile of the extension about half way down: can you post a picture please showing it from your garden

Op: I think you you mentioned somewhere a time scale of 6 years: put on your thinking cap and try get a accurate time scale for initial construction as dates are important for enforcement.

Op, AFAIR, your first post mentions a shower outlet as being new, but other posts suggest its the kitchen sink, perhaps as well: can you, as best you can, clarify that

Mod:
Any chance of aggregating all the pictures into one post

Sorry forgot the (shower) shore it's ment to be like its the gully for kitchen sink & drainpipe

Sleeper12

Forever21 wrote:

It would indeed but I'd prefer to hand out the €200-€300 myself rather than go down that road as wouldn't have that kinda cash to hand over . Tell you one thing I won't be had by cowboys again neighbours or no neighbours, this ****er thinks he knows everything, he lays carpets for a living & said he knows a lot !!!! About building, god help all you guys on here that know your stuff when ye come against the likes of this.

I agree with you here. Court, even the small claims court can add a lot of stress to your life. It takes months. Then even if you win, you still have to live beside them. If a few hundred euro can sort it out I'd go with that option.
Neighbours sound like right fools.

gutteruu

You might pay to get it fixed and it could get worse or happen again so forget that idea. He could then blame you for it being a problem in future. Get an engineer. After that contact council. They won't care unless its a planning issue then they will absolutely kick up.

You can look on your councils website where you will see a map and it should show all their planning applications/drawings/ruling etc.

If your neighbour is facing an engineers report showing its causing you dampness/health issues and the council screaming about an illegal construction he will absolutely fix it.

ted1

Forever21 wrote: »

i agree completely. We were not here for 6 weeks when it was been done as we were up in crumlin with our son , going to pop in Monday & say we're not happy & let him know it needs to be fixed & access can be had any time

But surely he applied for planning as he hasn't got the required 35 Sq m of garden left

ted1

Todd Toddington III wrote: »

Planning isn't required for single story, under 40m2 and not visible from the street

That's only partially true there are conditions such as the amount of iutdoor space left and the closeness of Windows to neighbours

Forever21

ted1 wrote: »

But surely he applied for planning as he hasn't got the required 35 Sq m of garden left

No application was made .

antiskeptic

Forever21 wrote: »

No application was made .

Has he got 25sqm of open space left - you say there's a garage to side? Presumably some open space behind that. Can you measure length and breadth of extension (the 40m2 refers to interior space but that can be back calculated from the external dimensions.) And what's the open space left to rear of house.

What evidence have you that building commenced when you say? Once it's up 7 years the council can't make him take it down - even if they aren't prepared to grant him retention. He'll have trouble selling without retention but perhaps this is his forever home and he doesn't care.

Rather than go legal (yet), I'd be leveraging your approaching the authorities. The risk of having to demolish, in the event he's trampled over the rules would be a strong card he won't want you to play.

Stay as reasonable as you can throughout. Apologetic that you've been forced to persist but firm and resolute that he's to get his act together.

Calahonda52

Forever21 wrote: »

No application was made .

Right folks: the OP has confirmed there is no planning, based on the pics its about 70 to 75 sq m so does the OP need an engineer's report, it is just not enough to highlight the unauthorised development, which does not comply with building regs either.

Would welcome some ideas here on how the OP, bearing in mind the family circumstances, should proceed.

Forever21

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Right folks: the OP has confirmed there is no planning, based on the pics its about 70 to 75 sq m so does the OP need an engineer's report, it is just not enough to highlight the unauthorised development, which does not comply with building regs either.

Would welcome some ideas here on how the OP, bearing in mind the family circumstances, should proceed.

Thanks calahonda52 , just to clarify I'm not a person for hassle, as I said I only found out about the problem while taking up porcelain tiles to lay laminate flooring , don't have the money to go down the solicitors road & been the person I am I wouldn't want to either . All I'm looking for is the neighbour who thinks he knows everything is to realise he has to sort the water problem out & tidy up the boundary, I'd be more than happy with that but I'll also be saying if he ever try's to sell I'll be looking for him to take down whatever is overhanging onto my walls . I feel I'm been fair but it's to find a way to get him to listen to reason & realise I'm right !!!