reported post not acted upon

Tabnabs

I reposted this post at about 11.50am today. I consider this post to be entirely reprehensible. It is clearly implying that shooting police officers is both warranted and justified. There can be no other meaning behind this post.

I reported it again a little while later and then after an hour of nothing being done, despite AH mods contributing to this and other threads (and therefore likely aware of the reported post) I pm'd the Cmods to see if I could get a reason as to why the post had not been tackled, or why it was deemed acceptable?

I quickly received this response:

KERSPLAT! wrote:

You reported the post just 54 minutes ago. Mods are posters before they are mods and as such are free to post without having to mod beforehand.

An AH mod will look at the report and action if needs be when they have time to.

Your report is much appreciated as is your PM,

Thanks

So now several hours later, nothing has been done by the 9 mods to what is a fairly reprehensible post. I would like to escalate the issue and get feedback from Admin as to whether this post is acceptable or not and the reason for that decision?

I note that another post was red carded within two minutes of being posted. So it very much opens the question of both impartiality and suitability of the mods to make an honest call. Is a post about killing police right or wrong?

LoLth

Quick note on this: the post was moved from DRP as it is not a DRP issue. Kersplat! gave permission for his PM to be included in the moved post

LoLth

Tabnabs wrote: »

I reposted this post at about 11.50am today. I consider this post to be entirely reprehensible. It is clearly implying that shooting police officers is both warranted and justified. There can be no other meaning behind this post.

the content of the reported post is

Might provide some balance to the police with guns and an anti black agenda.

which was in direct response to your post which was quoted:

Black men have guns and anti police agenda.

Maybe the mod thought you got a flippant and misleading response to a flippant and misleading comment and that neither are actionable if not taken seriously.


on the plus side you got a quick PM response from the CM so thats good and it was polite and explanatory, so thats good too.

LoLth

Just to add:

the post that was carded was done nearly an hour *before* the post you reported was made. That a mod was there 2 minutes after an actionable post was reported or saw it himself has zero bearing on the response time to your post. If the mod had carded the post AFTER your report then maybe it would be relevant - though even then it would and should not have any influence on the decision on whether the post you took issue with was actionable.

KERSPLAT!

I stand by that PM. The report has been looked at by AH mods since.

Annasopra

4 hours is unreasonable to be complaining about mods not acting quickly.

Buona Fortuna

LoLth wrote: »

Maybe the mod thought you got a flippant and misleading response to a flippant and misleading comment and that neither are actionable if not taken seriously.

This. Both posts are pretty much the opposite sides of the same coin.

Its not a thread that I would choose to take part in. The breaking headlines were bad enough without reading anymore illinformed views.

MadDog76

I reported a "humorous" post in After Hours relating to the death of Lane Graves (the 2 year old boy killed by an alligator whilst holidaying in Disneyland) almost a month ago .......... it was never actioned and I never received a reply/PM explaining how/why that post was acceptable to Mods on Boards.

In short, don't try to apply any reasonable logic to the actions of Mods, CMods or even Admins on Boards ......... they make their own "rules" up as they go depending on the individual Mods opinion of posts and/or posters.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057610009

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100040802&postcount=3

Jayop

I might report your original post because I find it more reprehensible than the one you reported. Basically you said something inflammatory and someone responded in kind.

Buona Fortuna

MadDog76 wrote: »

I reported a "humorous" post in After Hours relating to the death of Lane Graves (the 2 year old boy killed by an alligator whilst holidaying in Disneyland) almost a month ago .......... it was never actioned and I never received a reply/PM explaining how/why that post was acceptable to Mods on Boards.

In short, don't try to apply any reasonable logic to the actions of Mods, CMods or even Admins on Boards ......... they make their own "rules" up as they go depending on the individual Mods opinion of posts and/or posters.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057610009

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100040802&postcount=3

You're right. That was a stupid and insensitive post.

People sometimes say stupid and insensitive things. For my money Boom Bap was bang on the money with this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100041286&postcount=15, as were Calloway's and Esel's posts, both highly thanked.

If I had a problem with moderating - which I don't - I'd probably be citing this as an example of good modding.

- user says something stupid and insensitve
- users point out how insensitive
- Mod says come on
- thread carries on and no one is banned or carded
- Bingo

MadDog76

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

You're right. That was a stupid and insensitive post.

People sometimes say stupid and insensitive things. For my money Boom Bap was bang on the money with this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100041286&postcount=15, as were Calloway's and Esel's posts, both highly thanked.

If I had a problem with moderating - which I don't - I'd probably be citing this as an example of good modding.

- user says something stupid and insensitve
- users point out how insensitive
- Mod says come on
- thread carries on and no one is banned or carded
- Bingo

This was an example of terrible Modding:

- Poster says something stupid, offensive and insensitive.
- Posters point out how insensitive and post is Reported.
- Mod says "come on ........"
- Poster defends his post and continues on unpunished.
- Posters, such as myself, are left confused as to what is, and is not, acceptable to post?

Posts/posters have actioned for posting a less offensive posts than the one I Reported ......... Mod fail, on this occasion.

Buona Fortuna

MadDog76 wrote: »

This was an example of terrible Modding:

We're just opposite ends of the same spectrum.

For the record I think Mods have a difficult and largely thankless job, that they try and carry out in a human and sometimes fallable way.

Are you looking for more god-like qualities in mods? A more comprehensive set of rules that would leave no room for doubt or interpretation?

- Poster defends his post and continues on unpunished.

Unpunished . This is just a website.

- Posters, such as myself, are left confused as to what is, and is not, acceptable to post?

We're all human at the end of the day. If you wouldn't say it in person, don't type it.


Just because some people say stupid insensitive things doesn't mean you either have to join them or even engage with them.

MadDog76

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

We're just opposite ends of the same spectrum.

For the record I think Mods have a difficult and largely thankless job, that they try and carry out in a human and sometimes fallable way.

Are you looking for more god-like qualities in mods? A more comprehensive set of rules that would leave no room for doubt or interpretation?

Unpunished . This is just a website.


We're all human at the end of the day. If you wouldn't say it in person, don't type it.


Just because some people say stupid insensitive things doesn't mean you either have to join them or even engage with them.

So ......... why are some posts/posters infracted when others aren't?
Why do we even have a Report Post option, if it's going to be ignored, at will, by Mods??
Why are there punishments (cards, bans etc.) if they are going to be implemented/ignored randomly???
Why is there a DR Process when it clearly just goes through the motions as opposed to actually evaluating individual cases????

I'm not looking for perfection, just a little consistency in clear-cut cases.

Pawwed Rig

MadDog76 wrote: »

So ......... why are some posts/posters infracted when others aren't?
Why do we even have a Report Post option, if it's going to be ignored, at will, by Mods??
Why are there punishments (cards, bans etc.) if they are going to be implemented/ignored randomly???
Why is there a DR Process when it clearly just goes through the motions as opposed to actually evaluating individual cases????

I'm not looking for perfection, just a little consistency in clear-cut cases.

As you are aware the report post is for users to highlight issues to the mods. In AH ALL of these reported posts are assessed by one or ( usually ) more mods. Some are deemed to be worthy of ban/infraction others are deemed to be worthy of warning or no action. Our mods are best placed to assess what action is taken as they were only modded after proving they were level headed posters with good judgement.
The post you talk of was assessed and actioned. Just because you report something does not mean it deserves sanction.
It is good to see with the thousands of posts in AH that this is the only (minor) issue you have.

LoLth

I think there is some element of confusion on the purpose of the "report post" button. It is to raise an issue that you think the mods need to be aware of. It is not a "punish" button or a "negative rep button".

Mods look at the issue and assess it in context. Recent threads here have called for more consideration from the mods of the circumstances of a post and not to auto assign an infraction or warning.

In the case of the OP, this is exactly what was done and while posters may post opinions that the majority will not agree with, unless it is deliberately offensive or trolling or just plain rude the mod has the responsibility of making that call. Yes, a post may offend you and you may disagree with it but thats the nature of conversation with groups, there will always be opposing or at least differing opinion. The real issue is how the posters deal with that different when they encounter it. and *thats* what mods need to moderate when it comes to discussion. Just plain illegal / trolling / spam the mods can auto warn/ban/infract to their hearts content and if that was all they had to do then we wouldnt have the mod selection process because anyone can enforce a clear set of do's and donts.

MadDog76 mentioned consistency: I agree. consistency is what mods should strive for and what makes it easy to not fall foul of the rules. Mods know this and they work toward it. What may sometimes seem to be inconsistent may however be leniency in order to avoid shutting down discussion or the issue may have been dealt with in an different way. Or there may have been a mitigating circumstance that the reporting poster is not aware of.

dr.bollocko

If it is an implication it's subtle enough to be allowed.

MadDog76

LoLth wrote: »

I think there is some element of confusion on the purpose of the "report post" button. It is to raise an issue that you think the mods need to be aware of. It is not a "punish" button or a "negative rep button".

Mods look at the issue and assess it in context. Recent threads here have called for more consideration from the mods of the circumstances of a post and not to auto assign an infraction or warning.

In the case of the OP, this is exactly what was done and while posters may post opinions that the majority will not agree with, unless it is deliberately offensive or trolling or just plain rude the mod has the responsibility of making that call. Yes, a post may offend you and you may disagree with it but thats the nature of conversation with groups, there will always be opposing or at least differing opinion. The real issue is how the posters deal with that different when they encounter it. and *thats* what mods need to moderate when it comes to discussion. Just plain illegal / trolling / spam the mods can auto warn/ban/infract to their hearts content and if that was all they had to do then we wouldnt have the mod selection process because anyone can enforce a clear set of do's and donts.

MadDog76 mentioned consistency: I agree. consistency is what mods should strive for and what makes it easy to not fall foul of the rules. Mods know this and they work toward it. What may sometimes seem to be inconsistent may however be leniency in order to avoid shutting down discussion or the issue may have been dealt with in an different way. Or there may have been a mitigating circumstance that the reporting poster is not aware of.

I can't argue with your logical reasonable answer ........... thanks for taking the time to reply.

MadDog76

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

As you are aware the report post is for users to highlight issues to the mods. In AH ALL of these reported posts are assessed by one or ( usually ) more mods. Some are deemed to be worthy of ban/infraction others are deemed to be worthy of warning or no action. Our mods are best placed to assess what action is taken as they were only modded after proving they were level headed posters with good judgement.
The post you talk of was assessed and actioned. Just because you report something does not mean it deserves sanction.
It is good to see with the thousands of posts in AH that this is the only (minor) issue you have.

And therein lies the problem, there seems to be a lack of consistency as to which posts are actioned versus unactioned posts .......... I often wonder if the deciding factor as to whether a post is actioned or not is more to do with the poster than the actual offending post itself.

Pawwed Rig

The poster is an important factor alright. A new poster or a poster with a clean record will get more leeway than someone who constantly causes hassle for example (which should be an obvious statement).

uck51js9zml2yt

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

The poster is an important factor alright. A new poster or a poster with a clean record will get more leeway than someone who constantly causes hassle for example (which should be an obvious statement).

Just playing devil's advocate here,.......

Surely as poster of long standing with a clean record should know better and have the rules applied on that basis rather than their record.....a premis often referred to in the prison forum.
As for a new poster, well they would have read the t's & c's !

Pawwed Rig

Indeed and a new poster would get more of a benefit of the doubt than a long established poster.
Not rocket science*



*otherwise I would never have been modded.

MadDog76

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

The poster is an important factor alright. A new poster or a poster with a clean record will get more leeway than someone who constantly causes hassle for example (which should be an obvious statement).

Your statement is brave and confirms many of my suspicions, I appreciate the clarification and confirmation.

So .......... certain posters, with clean records, get to bend (and occasionally blatantly break) the rules and get away with it because a Mod decides "ah, he's usually ok, I'll let this one slide" .......... this gets repeated so that particular poster never gets actioned and continues to push the boundaries further & further, unchecked.

Other posters get a couple of yellow cards and maybe a red card over the course of a couple of years and then gets pounced on by an over-zealous Mod (of which there are many!) with a temporary ban for a border-line post ........ if that poster forgets to cross a "t" or dot an "i" in the future he/she again gets hammered while the Mods pat eachother on the back for a job well done pointing at the "offending" posters "terrible record" ......... it's a vicious circle and a wholly unfair way of implementing rules/standards.

If you, personally, cannot see how that flawed mind-set and "process" of policing posts/posters has lead to a definite undercurrent of resentment (and loss of faith) towards Mods, CMods, Admin and the DR Process then ............ you can't see the wood from the trees and you are an inherent part of the problem, ie. you can't fix it unless you can accept it's broken.

That said, I do appreciate your honesty at least.

Pawwed Rig

Well that is not what I said at all.

nesf

There's obviously a difference between a normally calm poster acting up in a thread after someone hit a nerve with a comment and someone who turns every thread on a particular topic into a trainwreck acting up in a thread on that topic.

Pawwed Rig

nesf wrote: »

There's obviously a difference between a normally calm poster acting up in a thread after someone hit a nerve with a comment and someone who turns every thread on a particular topic into a trainwreck acting up in a thread on that topic.

Exactly. Common sense approach.

MadDog76

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Well that is not what I said at all.

Excellent reply ......... at least you didn't deny that my post is true.

Pawwed Rig

Well to be fair to mods it has been explained to you in excruciating detail on this thread, other feedback threads and the various DRPs that you have been through. You don't want to see any point of view other than your own and that is fine but I am confused as to why you keep asking when you are repeatedly given the same answer.
Is there some point trying to be made? Some action against you that you would like me to look into? I am quite happy to do so and post the reasoning here for everyone to judge for themselves*

*assuming it is in one of my forums (which most of your posts are)

Chorus_suck

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Pawwed Rig

Chorus_suck wrote: »

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Probably not unfortunately. It seems like a very apt response sometimes though. Try to resist

Wibbs

Chorus_suck wrote: »

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Chorus_suck

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Chorus_suck

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Wibbs

Chorus_suck wrote: »

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My opinion? Over moderation and complaints about over moderation are two sides of the same Boards.ie coin.

There's too damn much focus on moderation on this site. On all sides.

When I see a mod going on about "ban hammers" I usually think "thundering gobshite", equally when I see others going on about mods abusing power and all that I usually think "thundering gobshite" too.

It's all very autistic, or it can get that way fast. Time and motion rules lawyering on all sides. No understanding of grey areas or leeway or subtlety. Y'know normal human interaction. Nope it has to be rigid and with a heavy side order of solipsism with it. QV this very thread. "My reported post wasn't acted upon, How dare you!!". Get over yourself. It really doesn't matter. Though as we've seen culturally the internets has increasingly drifted towards echo chambers where all can be Sheldon Coopers of their own little worldview together, so that seems to be the popular choice.

Pawwed Rig

Chorus_suck wrote: »

Then I'd love to know why this post http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057616928/1/#post100230133 wasn't sanctioned in some way.

I also note that the post was thanked by a number of other mods and that the thread had significant admin involvement.

The double standards around here are sickening.

Dunno. Definitely deserved to be actioned. The forum mods would have to answer that one.
Unfortunately I only have modding ability over the fora which are assigned to me and feedback is not one of them.

Chorus_suck

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Chorus_suck

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Wibbs

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Dunno. Definitely deserved to be actioned.

TBH PR, at this stage it would be nice to just call a spade a spade.

Look P, on here and in life, some people are just time wasters and whingers that will never be satisfied. That is their thing. Even if you gave them the reins of Boards(or whatever else ails them in their world), they'd only get momentary relief from being self entitled moaners and off they would go looking for something else to be unhappy about.

A good rule in life(and especially love) and works well here IMHO: You simply cannot satisfy someone whose existence and worldview is predicated on being unsatisfied and it is foolish to try.

LoLth

At the risk of walking directly into the cunning trap laid for me I've warned Chorus_Sucks' post.

There is a difference between describing someone as being whiney as part of an ongoing discussion / heat of the moment posting and deliberately posting to provoke a response.

That sort of game playing is pretty much exactly what is wrong with the report post feature and why we need human mods that can differentiate based on nuance. In olden days we would have classified it as "being a dick" but we had to drop that category because people took offense to being called dicks. Right now, its pretty much trolling for a reaction.

I've had enough of it to be honest. this was a decent discussion that got almost got derailed by someone out to use the system against itself to prove their own point. The rules are there to provide a guideline for a better community for all posters, not to give mods an ego boost or service posters who want to show the world of anonymous accounts just how smart their anonymous account actually is in a virtual environment.

osarusan

I've reported some posts that never seemed to have anything done about them.

I just assumed that the mods had decided they didn't cross any line. Never until today did I realise it was all a conspiracy against me.

Chorus_suck

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LoLth

I'm saying that determining when someone has crossed a line requires a human mod to take context and nuance into account rather than a hard binary right or wrong set of rules.

If you want to express your opinion in a discussion then go ahead. If you want to rules lawyer, fire away. be a dick about the rules and cause hassle for users or mods and you'll get warned/infracted or banned.

regardless of forum specific charters etc I think the general rule of thumb should be play nice and you have nothing to worry about.

Chorus_suck

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MadDog76

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Well to be fair to mods it has been explained to you in excruciating detail on this thread, other feedback threads and the various DRPs that you have been through. You don't want to see any point of view other than your own and that is fine but I am confused as to why you keep asking when you are repeatedly given the same answer.
Is there some point trying to be made? Some action against you that you would like me to look into? I am quite happy to do so and post the reasoning here for everyone to judge for themselves*

*assuming it is in one of my forums (which most of your posts are)

Going down the personal route Pawwed? Tut tut ....... attack the post, not the poster and all that.
I'm offering my opinion on Mods, CMods, Admins, Reporting Posts and the DR Process in general based on my observations whilst using this site ......... the reason I keep asking the same questions is because the same problems still exist and are being ignored .......... I believe that is the purpose of the Feedback Forum?

My own personal experiences, since you insisted on bringing it up, are a mixed bag ......... I've found a minority of Mods, CMods & Admins to be reasonable logical people .......... but even those Mods have their hands tied at times as they can't, or they feel they can't, go against the tide. They do their best, and I applaud them & their efforts but the problems are more significant/severe than they can tackle.
My experience of the DR Process is also mixed ......... I've been infracted/banned etc. and decided not to appeal as the infractions were justified (or border-line in most cases) ........... on the occasions that I have gone through the Appeals Process, I've gotten lucky a few times (and it is just pure luck who you get to pass judgement on you!) and the rest of the time it was the usual going through the motions process.

This particular thread is about reporting posts and the inconsistencies as to which posts/posters are actioned versus those who are allowed bend/break the rules ......... and the reasons for these inconsistencies.

MadDog76

Wibbs wrote: »

My opinion? Over moderation and complaints about over moderation are two sides of the same Boards.ie coin.

There's too damn much focus on moderation on this site. On all sides.

When I see a mod going on about "ban hammers" I usually think "thundering gobshite", equally when I see others going on about mods abusing power and all that I usually think "thundering gobshite" too.

It's all very autistic, or it can get that way fast. Time and motion rules lawyering on all sides. No understanding of grey areas or leeway or subtlety. Y'know normal human interaction. Nope it has to be rigid and with a heavy side order of solipsism with it. QV this very thread. "My reported post wasn't acted upon, How dare you!!". Get over yourself. It really doesn't matter. Though as we've seen culturally the internets has increasingly drifted towards echo chambers where all can be Sheldon Coopers of their own little worldview together, so that seems to be the popular choice.

I don't think the issue is Reported Posts not being actioned, it's more the fact that less offending posts are unnecessarily actioned ......... grey areas/interpretations etc. are all well & good but the level of inconsistent behaviour from some Mods regarding some posts/posters is, at times, astounding.

uck51js9zml2yt

Some of the things I'd like to see are
1 an acknowledgement by a mod of a report. It's not a major deal to have an automatic reply when a mod opens a report.
2. For transparency, that the reason for no action be explained. For the most part people report posts which are offensive or break the rules in some form. A reasoned explanation of why an action wasn't taken would aid transparency and stop accusations of "not infractions your mates".
3. A clearer explanation in the charters of how infractions etc will be administered and in what circumstances. I.e If he's new or generally causes no problems , he'll be overlooked. If he has a history from 10 years ago he'll be dealt with harshly.

MadDog76

LoLth wrote: »

I'm saying that determining when someone has crossed a line requires a human mod to take context and nuance into account rather than a hard binary right or wrong set of rules.

If you want to express your opinion in a discussion then go ahead. If you want to rules lawyer, fire away. be a dick about the rules and cause hassle for users or mods and you'll get warned/infracted or banned.

regardless of forum specific charters etc I think the general rule of thumb should be play nice and you have nothing to worry about.

What about those Posters, and indeed Mods, who don't play nice but are never reprimanded?

MadDog76

Ayla Big Gate wrote: »

Some of the things I'd like to see are
1 an acknowledgement by a mod of a report. It's not a major deal to have an automatic reply when a mod opens a report.
2. For transparency, that the reason for no action be explained. For the most part people report posts which are offensive or break the rules in some form. A reasoned explanation of why an action wasn't taken would aid transparency and stop accusations of "not infractions your mates".
3. A clearer explanation in the charters of how infractions etc will be administered and in what circumstances. I.e If he's new or generally causes no problems , he'll be overlooked. If he has a history from 10 years ago he'll be dealt with harshly.

Some excellent ideas there .........

Chorus_suck

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dudara

MadDog76 wrote: »

What about those Posters, and indeed Mods, who don't play nice but are never reprimanded?

Chorus_suck wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

In the recent Soccer feedback thread I mentioned how Mods have been admonished in the past for not living up to the standards expected. So please stop trying that tired argument. There is also a huge amount of background discussion going on between the mods at all times so don't assume that a poster is getting away unnoticed. It could happen, but it's unlikely.

I somewhat agree with Wibbs here. There is too much attention on moderating from users, and in direct feedback to that, from the moderators themselves. This rules lawyering and soapboxing is eating up valuable time from all involved. And to what benefit?? Other than further entrenching this detrimental and negative view of them vs us. To be frank, I believe this type of time wasting is damaging to the community spirit of Boards.

IMO, moderating will always have an element of judgement call to it. If it was purely by the rule book, then we'd probably have a lot more infractions and bans than we have now. I've also thought about the request to have mods respond to RPs, but I believe that will drag us down the wasting time rabbit hole even more.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

LoLth wrote: »

regardless of forum specific charters etc I think the general rule of thumb should be play nice and you have nothing to worry about.

Chat shít, get banned?

KERSPLAT!

Ayla Big Gate wrote: »

Some of the things I'd like to see are
1 an acknowledgement by a mod of a report. It's not a major deal to have an automatic reply when a mod opens a report.
2. For transparency, that the reason for no action be explained. For the most part people report posts which are offensive or break the rules in some form. A reasoned explanation of why an action wasn't taken would aid transparency and stop accusations of "not infractions your mates".
3. A clearer explanation in the charters of how infractions etc will be administered and in what circumstances. I.e If he's new or generally causes no problems , he'll be overlooked. If he has a history from 10 years ago he'll be dealt with harshly.

Ah yeah, we've nothing better to be doing with our lives. Mods put enough time into the site as it is without spending hours responding to reported posts. There's no point in a reporter receiving acknowledgement of a report being opened either, I open loads and don't action them for one reason or another. It could be left another hour or 5 before it's looked at properly.

A complete non runner and the expectation of mods to do this is off the wall.

As for your third point. Charters need to be non specific in some cases or you'll get dickheads and their rules lawyering for every second card or ban handed out.

You know what. Don't be a dîck and you most likely won't have an issue on the site. Act the bollox and you will. Simple as that.