Mother (in-law) went back on promise for us to share house... Advice sought.

anonbloke

Hi all,

Just looking for a bit of advice on the below story, and about how to conduct future relationships, plus if anyone can tell me about her side of story and how she may feel, because I can't figure it out at all, would be grateful.

Myself and my wife have been renting for the last 6 years and we recently had a baby... Our plan was to move back to her mother's house (4 bed, detached, lots of space, nobody else but the mum living there) for 12-18 months to save for a deposit.

We asked her, and she agreed... we would pay rent (small amount) plus cover all the bills.

We notified our landlord that we would be moving out.

Now, 4 weeks before we are supposed to move in with her and out of our current place, she has told us that we are not welcome and that we cannot move in, because, to quote her "I don't want to be a prisoner in my own home."

So, we are left in a situation where we have to find a place in this short space of time (with a baby etc!)

My questions/advice/looking for helpful comments;

1. My wife is naturally extremely upset (what happens if she and the baby actually needed to move in?) - how do I try to reassure her etc?

2. What do we do now with the mother (she has no other family, neither does my wife, no aunts/uncles/siblings) - I think, personally, I will find it hard to ever be in her company ever again. Should we go on like nothing has happened?

3. What is she thinking? I cannot fathom a situation where I would treat my baby the same.


TLDR;

Mother (in law) went back on agreement to let us save for a deposit by moving in with her for 12 months, 4 weeks before agreed date, essentially we are homeless with our new baby, how do we move forward with relationship (if at all!) and what is she (the mother) thinking?

Augme

Have you contacted your current landlord yet?

anonbloke

Augme wrote: »

Have you contacted your current landlord yet?

Yep, when she agreed - 2 months ago - we gave him notice we would be out by end of July.

It was last Thurs. she told us to get humped.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

anonbloke wrote: »

Yep, when she agreed - 2 months ago - we gave him notice we would be out by end of July.

It was last Thurs. she told us to get humped.

Can you rescind the notice?

Augme

anonbloke wrote: »

Yep, when she agreed - 2 months ago - we gave him notice we would be out by end of July.

It was last Thurs. she told us to get humped.

I mean have you contacted her to say your plans fell through and can you stay on?

anonbloke

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

anonbloke wrote: »

Yep, when she agreed - 2 months ago - we gave him notice we would be out by end of July.

It was last Thurs. she told us to get humped.

Can you rescind the notice?

Possibly - he is looking to up our rent though, by about 400 p/m - the two happened to coincide, first we wanted to move out - then we notified - and in this discussion he said he was upping rent anyway... So, we were probably out of this place regardless

Still, I suppose, 4 weeks to look for a place is manageable.

The relationship with the mother is a bit of a problem, why would she do this to her daughter/grandchild and what does it say about their future?

K_P

I suspect you might get people here telling you that it's the mother (in law)'s house and she can decide to live whatever way she wants. In very black and white terms, that's all true. However IMO she's behaved appallingly and left you all in a desperate situation. She would be fully entitled to say no when you asked her about this, but to go back on a promise like this on such short notice after you've given notice to your landlord is dreadful.

I can understand of course how heartbroken you must be so all I can advise is to stay out of her way for the foreseeable future so that neither you nor your wife say anything you regret. Maybe she's getting cold feet, maybe a friend has spooked her about how hard it'll be to live with people after so long living on her own. Who knows. Maybe she'll change her mind, but you have to proceed on the basis that she won't. So you have my sympathies OP, but I'd suggest staying out of her way for quite a while.

Augme

anonbloke wrote: »

Possibly - he is looking to up our rent though, by about 400 p/m - the two happened to coincide, first we wanted to move out - then we notified - and in this discussion he said he was upping rent anyway... So, we were probably out of this place regardless

Still, I suppose, 4 weeks to look for a place is manageable.

The relationship with the mother is a bit of a problem, why would she do this to her daughter/grandchild and what does it say about their future?

It's **** timing but I can completely understand her point of view and actually think it's quite selfish of you to ask in the first place. She has already raised kids and maybe she just doesn't have any desire to spend 18months of her life living with a young family? I can't blame her either.

anonbloke

K_P wrote: »

I suspect you might get people here telling you that it's the mother (in law)'s house and she can decide to live whatever way she wants. In very black and white terms, that's all true. However IMO she's behaved appallingly and left you all in a desperate situation. She would be fully entitled to say no when you asked her about this, but to go back on a promise like this on such short notice after you've given notice to your landlord is dreadful.

I can understand of course how heartbroken you must be so all I can advise is to stay out of her way for the foreseeable future so that neither you nor your wife say anything you regret. Maybe she's getting cold feet, maybe a friend has spooked her about how hard it'll be to live with people after so long living on her own. Who knows. Maybe she'll change her mind, but you have to proceed on the basis that she won't. So you have my sympathies OP, but I'd suggest staying out of her way for quite a while.

Cheers, K_P, your final para is the approach we've taken so far (no Facebook de-friendings yet )

Agree, think she may have been spooked, maybe even a "you'll never get them out" - which was/is never in our mind or plans

My parents (live abroad) in the fallout and disgust have said that they'll help us with a deposit in 2 - 4 years, so every cloud and that...

How or why someone can treat their daughter/grandchild like that really baffles me.

anonbloke

Augme wrote: »

anonbloke wrote: »

Possibly - he is looking to up our rent though, by about 400 p/m - the two happened to coincide, first we wanted to move out - then we notified - and in this discussion he said he was upping rent anyway... So, we were probably out of this place regardless

Still, I suppose, 4 weeks to look for a place is manageable.

The relationship with the mother is a bit of a problem, why would she do this to her daughter/grandchild and what does it say about their future?

It's **** timing but I can completely understand her point of view and actually think it's quite selfish of you to ask in the first place. She has already raised kids and maybe she just doesn't have any desire to spend 18months of her life living with a young family? I can't blame her either.

(And there it is !)

Perhaps we come from different backgrounds or family relationships... My parents/sister/aunts/uncles etc would let you move in for 20 years if you wanted. Even friends at work would let us move in until we were sorted. For a mother, to be asked to help their child/grandchild and to renege on an agreement four weeks before, knowing it leaves them in a very difficult situation is not great.

Also, of course no contact since, not even a "until you get sorted, move in" - "do you need help moving, I can help" - nothing. Silence.

bp

I don't agree with what she did but am going to argue her side (as I said I don't agree with her approach especially since she agreed/ offered):

- babies are loud and messy and wake a lot during the night so she wont get a proper sleep
- babies come with a lot of stuff (buggies, high chairs etc) so she will have to put her stuff away for at least a year
- she will be seen as a live in baby sitter who will be dumped with the baby often
- she already reared her child and is enjoying her freedom
- she may have a partner you don't know about
- she is afraid you guys won't leave
- the tv will get hogged, she will end up doing all the cleaning, laundry etc

Anyway they are just a few reasons she may have changed her mind. Personally I could not move back in with my mother

Augme

anonbloke wrote: »

(And there it is !)

Perhaps we come from different backgrounds or family relationships... My parents/sister/aunts/uncles etc would let you move in for 20 years if you wanted. Even friends at work would let us move in until we were sorted. For a mother, to be asked to help their child/grandchild and to renege on an agreement four weeks before, knowing it leaves them in a very difficult situation is not great.

Also, of course no contact since, not even a "until you get sorted, move in" - "do you need help moving, I can help" - nothing. Silence.

Why don't you ask them can you move in their place then?

anonbloke

bp wrote: »

I don't agree with what she did but am going to argue her side (as I said I don't agree with her approach especially since she agreed/ offered):

Anyway they are just a few reasons she may have changed her mind. Personally I could not move back in with my mother

We addressed all of that with her - as of course - living with a baby is tough going.

- babies are loud and messy and wake a lot during the night so she wont get a proper sleep - Baby is in our room - would never hear them - even if in own rrom, it's a big house, small chance she'd hear
- babies come with a lot of stuff (buggies, high chairs etc) so she will have to put her stuff away for at least a year - All that stuff is already in the house, highchairs, stroller, toysm anyway
- she will be seen as a live in baby sitter who will be dumped with the baby often - We wouldn't trust her to look after the baby, she hasn't or even offered since day 1
- she already reared her child and is enjoying her freedom - How would her freedom be stopped?
- she may have a partner you don't know about - She 100% doesn;t.
- she is afraid you guys won't leave - We've told her and made it clear we have no intention of staying
- the tv will get hogged, she will end up doing all the cleaning, laundry etc - We have our own TV and do not need the living room - baby will be asleep by 7.30 - we are both at work all day - we already bought our own fridge as we didn't want to share as not to upset her.

[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I don't think, from my experience with family/friends that any of them are valid.[/font]

anonbloke

Augme wrote: »

anonbloke wrote: »

(And there it is !)

Perhaps we come from different backgrounds or family relationships... My parents/sister/aunts/uncles etc would let you move in for 20 years if you wanted. Even friends at work would let us move in until we were sorted. For a mother, to be asked to help their child/grandchild and to renege on an agreement four weeks before, knowing it leaves them in a very difficult situation is not great.

Also, of course no contact since, not even a "until you get sorted, move in" - "do you need help moving, I can help" - nothing. Silence.

Why don't you ask them can you move in their place then?

An Uncle has offered, and yes, probability we will take him up on it.

Still, any thoughts on her thinking? How would you conduct yerself in similar with your kids/grandkids?

silverharp

have you thought about a longer term arrangement that might put this into perspective, I know a few people with no siblings and they have either built a granny flat or bought an apartment for the parent nearby. its obviously rotten that she has changed her mind and you have acted based on her prior offer.
Its kind of up to your wife to steer things with her but there is no point being nice through gritted teeth , focus on your wife and child and let your wife decide what kind of relationship she wants with her mother.

K_P

anonbloke wrote: »

Still, any thoughts on her thinking? How would you conduct yerself in similar with your kids/grandkids?

I'm not sure what you'll get out of stewing over what her motivations might be. A previous poster, bp, gave a list of potential reasons, all of which you refuted. That all leads me to think are you hoping to thrash out the ins and outs of the situation here as you can't really do it with your MIL, much as you'd like to? None of us know her reasons, all we would be doing is speculating. Chances are it's one or a combination of the reasons bp stated above, but only your mother in law can tell you for certain.

Posters here will be able to tell you if they think her behaviour was justified or not, entirely based on their own opinions. We've no idea of the facts behind it all.

Sapphire

She was probably worried that you'd end up treating her like a built in babysitter or childcare and got spooked. Or maybe her friends told her some horror stories of couples living with in-laws. And while you have a baby now and you think that he or she might be no trouble, toddlers and young pre-schoolers are a different ball game entirely - even the best of them turn your entire house upside down. Maybe she remembers how tough the toddler years are and cant face into them again.

It could be that she felt backed into a corner when you both asked her, then as time went on, felt she couldn't renege, then finally panicked and left you in the lurch. Not nice but if she felt backed into it, I can sort of sympathise.

My mother loves me and she would want to house my little family if we were stuck, but I know she would hate the reality of it and feel pushed out in her own home, she'd unconsciously treat me like I was a teenager again and we would all be miserable so diplomatic relations would suffer badly. But I know we get on better living under our own roofs so I'd never ask.

At the end of the day, she is not obliged to give you room. I think all you can do is move on from that and never to ask her for a favour again or be in a situation where you'd need her help. Find somewhere else, let the dust settle and maybe down the line let her know she let you down if you feel its important, but do remember it was a really big request and maybe one that was unfair to ask of her.

Gatling

Who's idea was it to move into your mother inlaws,
Sounds like she didn't like the idea of you's been there for several years ,
I would have offered her a decent rent to at least show she would have benefited from the plan ,

anonbloke

K_P wrote: »

anonbloke wrote: »

Still, any thoughts on her thinking? How would you conduct yerself in similar with your kids/grandkids?

I'm not sure what you'll get out of stewing over what her motivations might be. A previous poster, bp, gave a list of potential reasons, all of which you refuted. That all leads me to think are you hoping to thrash out the ins and outs of the situation here as you can't really do it with your MIL, much as you'd like to? None of us know her reasons, all we would be doing is speculating. Chances are it's one or a combination of the reasons bp stated above, but only your mother in law can tell you for certain.

Posters here will be able to tell you if they think her behaviour was justified or not, entirely based on their own opinions. We've no idea of the facts behind it all.

Yes, can't argue with any of that... I imagine some combination of that list of points is probably why...

anonbloke

Sapphire wrote: »

She was probably worried that you'd end up treating her like a built in babysitter or childcare and got spooked. Or maybe her friends told her some horror stories of couples living with in-laws. And while you have a baby now and you think that he or she might be no trouble, toddlers and young pre-schoolers are a different ball game entirely - even the best of them turn your entire house upside down. Maybe she remembers how tough the toddler years are and cant face into them again.

It could be that she felt backed into a corner when you both asked her, then as time went on, felt she couldn't renege, then finally panicked and left you in the lurch. Not nice but if she felt backed into it, I can sort of sympathise.

My mother loves me and she would want to house my little family if we were stuck, but I know she would hate the reality of it and feel pushed out in her own home, she'd unconsciously treat me like I was a teenager again and we would all be miserable so diplomatic relations would suffer badly. But I know we get on better living under our own roofs so I'd never ask.

At the end of the day, she is not obliged to give you room. I think all you can do is move on from that and never to ask her for a favour again or be in a situation where you'd need her help. Find somewhere else, let the dust settle and maybe down the line let her know she let you down if you feel its important, but do remember it was a really big request and maybe one that was unfair to ask of her.

All good points. Cheers.

Big Bag of Chips

anonbloke wrote: »

We asked her, and she agreed... we would pay rent (small amount) plus cover all the bills

Maybe she felt under pressure to agree, and then after thinking about it a bit more realised she wasnt happy. Why would you pay a "small amount" of rent? The bills you would be covering would be bills you would be covering in your own place anyway. Utilities for 4 would be a big increase on utilities for 1, so it would be expected that you would at least pay the lion's share of the bills. Maybe she felt "used" by her daughter. That you'd all move in, take over, benefit financially from living in her house, and she'd be like a lodger in her own home for 2 years.

Maybe she shouldn't have agreed to it in the first place. But maybe you shouldn't have asked in the first place. Your family are great and would do anything for you. Your wife's isn't. My family are great and would drive to the other end of the country to do me a favour (my Dad recently did, actually! ) My husband's family would not walk around the corner for us. So we ask my family for help. We don't ask his. You have 4 weeks to find somewhere else. You won't be homeless. You're just hoping for somewhere where you can pay "a small amount" of rent and save for a deposit. As adults it's nice if your parents help you out, in some families it might even be expected, but it's certainly not a right.

Augme

anonbloke wrote: »

An Uncle has offered, and yes, probability we will take him up on it.

Still, any thoughts on her thinking? How would you conduct yerself in similar with your kids/grandkids?

She probably doesn't want the hassle. I can't comment on kids/grandkids but I do have a niece. Obviously love her and my sister and her husband but there is no way I would live with them for 18 months, especially if I was living on my own in my own house.

It's completely turning her living arrangements upside down. I can't imagine lasting the 18 months not getting pissed off at my sister.

Lollipops23

Whatever her reasaning, she's perfectly entitled to refuse you a room.

What's unreasonable is her telling you this 4 weeks before you're due to move in. You'd need to live under a rock not to know how harsh the rental market is right now- for all she knows she just put you in a situation whereby her daughter and baby grandchild are going to be living in a hotel.

kazmcdonald

It's a pretty ****ty thing to do but maybe a blessing. I had to move back home after the mother was in an accident and I lasted a week before I couldn't take anymore!

In defense of your mother in law it can be tough living with children. I have a teen and when I'm staying in the brothers, who has two small kids, I do be exhausted. I have also found 2 different styles of parenting under one roof don't work so maybe she had done you a favour as it can put awful strain on your relationship.

She could have had friends telling her it was a bad idea too. Maybe either explain to her how you two are feeling and that you will need time or for the time being avoid her but in fairness that might be hard to do if she wants to see her grandchild.

Calhoun

anonbloke wrote: »

Cheers, K_P, your final para is the approach we've taken so far (no Facebook de-friendings yet )

Agree, think she may have been spooked, maybe even a "you'll never get them out" - which was/is never in our mind or plans

My parents (live abroad) in the fallout and disgust have said that they'll help us with a deposit in 2 - 4 years, so every cloud and that...

How or why someone can treat their daughter/grandchild like that really baffles me.

On one level she owes you nothing, you don't have a god given right to stay with her. However the fact she agreed really putting you into hot water is not ideal.

I too would be putting some distance between us for quite some time.

As for folk saying you shouldn't have asked in the first place, that is ridiculous family help each other out at times and there is always an option to say no.

Tasden

anonbloke wrote: »

We addressed all of that with her - as of course - living with a baby is tough going.

- babies are loud and messy and wake a lot during the night so she wont get a proper sleep - Baby is in our room - would never hear them - even if in own rrom, it's a big house, small chance she'd hear
- babies come with a lot of stuff (buggies, high chairs etc) so she will have to put her stuff away for at least a year - All that stuff is already in the house, highchairs, stroller, toysm anyway
- she will be seen as a live in baby sitter who will be dumped with the baby often - We wouldn't trust her to look after the baby, she hasn't or even offered since day 1
- she already reared her child and is enjoying her freedom - How would her freedom be stopped?
- she may have a partner you don't know about - She 100% doesn;t.
- she is afraid you guys won't leave - We've told her and made it clear we have no intention of staying
- the tv will get hogged, she will end up doing all the cleaning, laundry etc - We have our own TV and do not need the living room - baby will be asleep by 7.30 - we are both at work all day - we already bought our own fridge as we didn't want to share as not to upset her.

[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I don't think, from my experience with family/friends that any of them are valid.[/font]

You say in your op that you recently had a baby, is it your first? Because they way you refute all these valid points seems to indicate that you aren't fully aware of just how much a baby takes over the house, regardless of room setups etc. Perhaps the mother picked up on this and from her own experience knew that you weren't being realistic about how things would be or accepting how big a change it would be for her.

anonbloke

anonbloke wrote: »

We have our own TV and do not need the living room - baby will be asleep by 7.30 -

I don't think, from my experience with family/friends that any of them are valid.

Firstly, I find the "baby will be asleep by x time" point kinda funny, they don't tend to sleep on command ... regardless of luck to date...

Secondly, it's her house, and while you've obviously tried to think this through, it's ultimately her decision and no more than that is needed for it to be "valid". It would be an imposition, it's clear enough, no matter how unobtrusive you try to be.

Dumping you in it after changing her mind and after giving notice was a bad thing for her to do indeed but still, at least she gave you 4 weeks
good luck

jimmycrackcorm

Augme wrote:

It's **** timing but I can completely understand her point of view and actually think it's quite selfish of you to ask in the first place. She has already raised kids and maybe she just doesn't have any desire to spend 18months of her life living with a young family? I can't blame her either.

She should have simply said that she wasn't able to accommodate them then. A simple no would have been the easy option. Of course when she is alone in her last years and wonder why her family never visits her then she'll have plenty of time to reflect on it.

LirW

I think OPs thoughts were quite simple at the time of asking: He and wife want to buy a house, they want to save money for a deposit. In that situation you consider a lot of options of how to minimize the costs and maximize your savings. One idea is moving in with family if there is space and (!) all are agreeing with the situation. Probably the family never hat troubles with the mother in law.
I fully agree with the fact that no person is entitled to live in anyone's house. But I don't think it's a bad thing to ask "Hey listen, we are saving for a mortgage, we are thinking of shrinking our costs, could you imagine us moving in under specific conditions". I think OPs family never thought they are entitled to just pack their stuff and move in in someone else's house.

Especially with a baby you do need quite some planning work this out smoothly. And I'm quite certain that you talked carefully about that before giving notice of leaving.
And now Mother in law pulls out. Great. Especially 4 weeks before the move. In certain areas of the country you could have massive troubles because of that. I know OP stated the rent before but in Dublin for example with a quite limited budget you'd be screwed.
I also count in the factor of personal disappointment and I do think this is what OPs post is really about. You get excited to work on the project "own house". You plan everything and count on the fact you'll be there in X months. Especially when annual salary is not the greatest you have to budget well. And I fully understand this disappointment, because you start to see yourself somewhere and suddenly this illusion is gone again. I'd probably be sad too if everything was sorted out already.

In the end it's her house and she has every right to refuse accommodating you. For whatever reason. I understand that you're upset because overnight all of your plans are gone and you are confronted with some kind of uncertainty. I'd probably avoid contact with her for a few weeks and then see how it goes.
We don't know too much about the situation, what kind of person is she in general, were you too demanding etc.

I just wish you all the best to find some okay place soon and you'll still manage to save up enough for your future home.

LegacyUser

I have family, some married, and I live alone now. I love my family dearly, cook for them when they visit for Sunday dinner....but, do I want them and their partners and children moving into my home beyond a short visit...no! I enjoy my life, I have my own plans, my own friends who call over and I might even have a friend who stays over the odd time who is none of my family's business. I have my own favourite tv programs, my own irregular bed times, my own night to have a long bath...nobody handed me my home on a plate, I worked hard for what I own, went years without holidays, even after buying my home I went a couple of years without proper carpets and flooring, had bin bags taped to the windows as curtains.....I love my family dearly but I think being targeted because I live alone and then being made feel under obligation to give up my life would be asking too much. Would they look closer to themselves on how to save, perhaps downsize the car, reduce the Sky subscription, cut back on holidays and nights out....it is only for 18 months or so??

Rachiee

The overall sentiment I'm getting from your post op Is of hurt that your Mother in Law would leave you in such a precarious situation that it shows a lack of love and concern for her daughter and grandchild.

what I would say is that in her mind 4 weeks is probably plenty of notice and she doesn't for a second think you won't be able to either negotiate a new rental agreement or find a new landlord. I get the feeling that with the stress and shock of this bombshell you feel she may as well be leaving you homeless.
It may be naievity on her part to believe you aren't in a precarious situation or panic in yours to think that you are but I hope if you can look at from her pov that way it's less hurtful.
She should have told you she changed her mind sooner but you would absolutely be taking over the whole house when you likely have the money to keep renting but would have a better lifestyle if you had a mortgage. Its a huge favour you were asking her I'm sure if you were actually at risk of homelessness she would take you in but in her mind you're not.
Best of luck I'd say your best bet is to stick with current landlord try to negotiate a lower increase than they had initially suggested on the basis that you are good tenants otherwise look at increasing your commute.

Did she really just go from yes to no like that?

Just like that?

Seems very strange.

Calhoun

ahhnodownwiththatsortofthing wrote: »

I have family, some married, and I live alone now. I love my family dearly, cook for them when they visit for Sunday dinner....but, do I want them and their partners and children moving into my home beyond a short visit...no! I enjoy my life, I have my own plans, my own friends who call over and I might even have a friend who stays over the odd time who is none of my family's business. I have my own favourite tv programs, my own irregular bed times, my own night to have a long bath...nobody handed me my home on a plate, I worked hard for what I own, went years without holidays, even after buying my home I went a couple of years without proper carpets and flooring, had bin bags taped to the windows as curtains.....I love my family dearly but I think being targeted because I live alone and then being made feel under obligation to give up my life would be asking too much. Would they look closer to themselves on how to save, perhaps downsize the car, reduce the Sky subscription, cut back on holidays and nights out....it is only for 18 months or so??

Which is your right but you do get the concept that some family do like to help in this way.

As you are a person that doesn't then you say no to the request, not yes then change your mind with a month to go.

Chocolate fiend

It sounds like she does not understand how renting works and probably does not realise you have handed in your notice already, I know my mother wouldnt have a clue about things like that.
I think she did the right thing by saying no, but, she should have said it sooner. Babies are hard to live with even if they are your own, even harder if they are someone else's. I say this as someone who shared a house with a SIL who had a young baby (while she and we both saved for deposits) and it was hard. It is very hard to share your space, and it is not something I ever see myself doing again.

I am sure if it was an emergency she would not see you guys stuck, but, it isn't an emergency.

Toots

I wonder did she feel put on the spot when ye asked her first, and then when she's had a think about it, realised she doesn't want to do it? In fairness to you, it's a crap situation to be in, and she really should have said something before you gave notice on the place ye were renting. The only thing I can think of is perhaps she doesn't realise how difficult it'll be to rent somewhere else with 4 weeks to go?

Look, if she feels like she'd be a prisoner in her own home, then it's best that she said no, albeit at the last minute. 12-18 months is a long time for resentment building up, and by the time ye moved out, irreparable damage could be done to the relationship, much more so than now. No matter what you say about your child not taking up a lot of space, their very presence in a house takes up room. It changes the whole dynamic of the house. If the kid goes to bed at 7:30, then will she be going around afraid to make any noise lest she wake the child? When your child starts creche/preschool they'll pick up EVERY bug going, believe me, and stuff like gastric flu and tummy bugs are incredibly contagious, and usually everyone in the house ends up getting it - so there's stuff like that to consider.

Also, there's no guarantee you will be able to move out within 12 to 18 months. Especially if you're in Dublin, the property market is nuts at the minute. A friend of mine and her hubby did the same as ye were planning (except they don't have a kid) and moved into his parents' house for what was meant to be a year so that they could save a deposit. They'll be there 2 years at the end of the summer, because despite getting a really decent deposit saved up, having well paid jobs, and approval for a decent sized mortgage, they've been outbid on every single house they've offered on. They're lucky in that she gets on really well with her in-laws and they've made it clear they're welcome to stay as long as they need to, but they're nearly a year trying to buy a house. If something similar happened in your case, you could potentially be living with your mother in law for a couple of years and that's a huge sacrifice for somebody to make. If she only had lukewarm feelings about ye moving in at the beginning, by the time ye moved out the atmosphere could be downright toxic.

Clampdown

I can understand her saying no, but to change her mind and leave you stuck like that is really bad form. If she thinks it's kosher to do that to someone dealing with the Dublin rent market, she would've been a nightmare to live with anyway. Try and work something out with your current landlord. I would have little to do with thr MIL after this for a while, she wants her space let her have it and then some would be how I would feel.

LegacyUser

Yeah it sucks she didn't say no outright and save you the hassle but she may have felt like she was put on the spot when you asked...or maybe she did agree with your logic and thought it was a good idea but afterwards when she thought about it no longer seemed like a good idea.

Maybe she stressed about it but felt better to have you annoyed at her now then have you move in and tensions build and you have an even bigger fall out?

Saying your family would let you move in for 20 years or whatever has no baring on this. It doesn't make someones family a bad family because they would refuse to let a family members move in with them. I know if I was really stuck my mum would let me stay but no long term like that, she's retired and has her own life she wants to lead. You didn't come to your mother in law saying you were in danger of being homeless, you came to her because you wanted to save money for a deposit and maybe she didn't see that as a dire need for housing.

Sapphire

Clampdown wrote: »

I can understand her saying no, but to change her mind and leave you stuck like that is really bad form. If she thinks it's kosher to do that to someone dealing with the Dublin rent market, she would've been a nightmare to live with anyway. Try and work something out with your current landlord. I would have little to do with thr MIL after this for a while, she wants her space let her have it and then some would be how I would feel.

I'd say its more a case of the MIL having bought her house decades ago, has no idea of what renting in current markets might entail rather than her choosing to delay and leave the OP in the lurch at the last minute.

I've rented since the early nineties and back then it was all very casual, often weekly arrangements, very little in the way of leases, landlords didn't care if you were on the social or working. Letting agents were barely a thing. It was an unregulated area. If the MIL is from an era that's about 10-20 years before my time it was even more casual I'd say.

I Am_Not_Ice

If my MIL behaved in such a way, she'd soon find out how things stand the first time she took it upon herself to visit my new home because I'd run the bitch from the door with a yard brush and warn her never to come back.

anonbloke

Ok, thanks for all the replies... Will try to address a few points.

* We rent in Dublin - apartments are appearing and disappearing from the usual sites at a rate of knots...
* Cutting costs to save - We don't really have any more costs to cut, one car (no loan), no UPC/Sky, I cycle to work...
* Living with someone prepared to do what she has done - Probably better we don't live together
* Her motivation - Ok, I understand, given the replies, that some will never want to share with a young family, or have their life modified in such a way
* "You shouldn't have asked her..." - Asking your family for help, no matter how big or small, is a rational and reasonable request, we would never have assumed, expected or demanded we could move in
* Her helping us out in the future - She hasn't done so since the baby or really forever, so cannot imagine it will change in the future. She also has not 1) asked if we needed help moving, 2) suggested if we were stuck that we could move in until finding a place, 3) phoned or text my wife since she rang(!) to ask how she is or how her grandchild is. We never expected that she would say yes, we hoped she would, but in the end, the result is the same.I don't expect she will phone or text, she won't know where her daughter or grandchild live.

Of course, the issue is not financial, we're not going to starve etc... I, as a few have pointed out, was trying to understand her motivation and perhaps get an understanding that would help my wife deal with the disappointment, because from my perspective I cannot imagine a situation, no matter how much I had to turn my life upside down, where I wouldn't help my baby's family if they asked. Given the level of Thanks to people saying opposite, I now realise that not helping family out through a certain level of selfishness is much more common than I would have thought.

In the end, we move on without her in our life for now, no point dwelling, and no point in letting our child be around someone as toxic... for my wife, she has no other family, so for the only person who should be there for you, to dramatically not be there for you will probably be tougher to deal with.

clappyhappy

anonbloke wrote: »

In the end, we move on without her in our life for now, no point dwelling, and no point in letting our child be around someone as toxic... for my wife, she has no other family, so for the only person who should be there for you, to dramatically not be there for you will probably be tougher to deal with.

Must be really hard on your wife, as you say she has no other family, to ask for her mums help and be told yes you can move in to then be told no without any explanation must be very confusing for her. I really hope they can overcome this and maintain some sort of relationship, maybe getting to know her grandchild will help. I wouldn't lose contact with her, life is too short.

Hope ye get sorted elsewhere, best of luck.

Taltos

anonbloke wrote: »

* Her helping us out in the future - She hasn't done so since the baby or really forever, so cannot imagine it will change in the future.....

We never expected that she would say yes, we hoped she would, but in the end, the result is the same.I don't expect she will phone or text, she won't know where her daughter or grandchild live.
...
In the end, we move on without her in our life for now, no point dwelling, and no point in letting our child be around someone as toxic... for my wife, she has no other family, so for the only person who should be there for you, to dramatically not be there for you will probably be tougher to deal with.

OP I have to admit the way you are approaching this is concerning. Clearly you never expected her to say yes so her changing her mind really shouldn't be that big of a shock.

However changing her mind does not make her toxic and nothing else you have shared paints her in such a light. So your new stance of now cutting her out of your wife's life and that of her grandchild is more than a little extreme based purely on what is shared here.

Her reasoning could be anything and frankly no one here can tell you what that is - only she can. It could be she doesn't like you, to she doesn't like children, to she just doesn't enjoy the thought of sharing her home with anyone.

But again, your new reaction of now cutting her out of your lives really does put a different spin on things and instead of focusing on punishing her for changing room her mind (her right no matter what you say), why not just focus on finding a new home and pouring all of that energy into making sure your immediate family is happy. Let's face it, you can't control her choices but you can control how you react to them and right now, based on what is in this thread that would seem a tad extreme.

batmanrobin

She sounds like a bit of a cow to be honest. She's left you in the lurch and hasn't even bothered to get in touch. Probably too afraid ye'd point out that very obvious fact to her. I haven't much time for that type of carry on. What if you had no family to fall back on, ye really would be in trouble given the rental market.

suicide_circus

The points about babies being loud and this whole arrangement severely disrupting the woman's life are all entirely valid. However, she knew all this when she agreed. And then she waited until they gave notice in their current place before pulling the plug thereby leaving her daughter and new born baby in limbo. Without wanting to cause offense, she sounds like an inconsiderate and unreliable person and I certainly wouldn't put her in a position again where she can pull the rug from under yourselves or your baby. I wouldn't be in contact with her again for a long time.

Big Bag of Chips

Her helping us out in the future - She hasn't done so since the baby or really forever, so cannot imagine it will change in the future. She also has not 1) asked if we needed help moving, 2) suggested if we were stuck that we could move in until finding a place, 3) phoned or text my wife since she rang(!) to ask how she is or how her grandchild is

Some people just don't help others. As I said, my husband's family wouldn't cross the road for us. We don't ask for help, because it won't be given. It doesn't affect our relationship with them though. We accept they're not the type to help out, so we continue or relationship knowing that and not asking for help. We still visit, they don't visit us! We are happy to see them and happy for them to have a relationship with our children, but we don't expect them to ever change.

My family are the complete opposite. Even down to my uncles, aunts, cousins etc.

Don't let the fact that your mother-in-law doesn't want you moving in affect whatever relationship you have with her. She doesn't help. She's never helped. She's probay not going to help in the future. You didn't expect her to help. So nothing has changed really. Your landlord was upping the rent, anyway. You were going to have to move, anyway. So just continue with the plan. I'm sure you could negotiate something with the landlord for an extra few weeks of needed. It wouldn't be unheard of for places to fall through/be delayed. Whatever relationship you had with her before, continue that now.

What about your uncle that you said you'd probably move in with?

anonbloke

A different spin on things? You think that we engineered all of this to punish her? We are not punishing her, of course I don't want to be around her for the foreseeable and to leave daughter/grandchild like that is by definition toxic, but given time am sure they will be in contact. But for now, if she wishes to see her daughter or grandchild, I believe the responsibility is hers to make the effort.

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Some people just don't help others. As I said, my husband's family wouldn't cross the road for us. We don't ask for help, because it won't be given. It doesn't affect our relationship with them though. We accept they're not the type to help out, so we continue or relationship knowing that and not asking for help. We still visit, they don't visit us! We are happy to see them and happy for them to have a relationship with our children, but we don't expect them to ever change.

suicide_circus wrote: »

...she sounds like an inconsiderate and unreliable person and I certainly wouldn't put her in a position again where she can pull the rug from under yourselves or your baby. I wouldn't be in contact with her again for a long time.

I think these sum it up - I have never encountered a personality like that before really, and didn't think there were people like that in the world. Naive, I guess, and a learning experience .

I will leave it at this -think we've covered it all now , appreciate the replies from both sides of the discussion. Cheers. We'll move on, and get sorted - have a viewing tonight, and contacted landlord who said he'll get back to me about extending until we have somewhere...

K_P

anonbloke wrote: »

I, as a few have pointed out, was trying to understand her motivation and perhaps get an understanding that would help my wife deal with the disappointment, because from my perspective I cannot imagine a situation, no matter how much I had to turn my life upside down, where I wouldn't help my baby's family if they asked.

I realise now that you were looking for her motivation as of course your wife must feel incredibly let down by her mother, so apologies if I was a bit dismissive in my last post. As hard as it can be to fathom, your MIL not wanting to "feel like a prisoner in her own home" is her reason and that is more important to her than the fallout of letting her family down.

Some families would do anything for you and, as others have said, some families wouldn't cross the road to say hello to you, which is desperately sad. You've learned a harsh lesson here. I wouldn't necessarily advocate cutting her out of your life, but now that you've more of an insight into what she's really like, how you completely cannot rely on her in any way for anything, then move forward in your relationship with her with that in mind. Don't rely on her for anything, don't ask her for anything and perhaps reciprocate that selfishness and put your own wife and child ahead of your MIL's needs going forward.

As hard as it is to see now, overall you may very well have dodged a bullet here.

anonbloke

Well, that didn't format very well - first piece was a reply to Taltos about the toxicity and our beahviour.

ChampagnePop

anonbloke wrote: »

A different spin on things? You think that we engineered all of this to punish her? We are not punishing her, of course I don't want to be around her for the foreseeable and to leave daughter/grandchild like that is by definition toxic, but given time am sure they will be in contact. But for now, if she wishes to see her daughter or grandchild, I believe the responsibility is hers to make the effort.





I think these sum it up - I have never encountered a personality like that before really, and didn't think there were people like that in the world. Naive, I guess, and a learning experience .

I will leave it at this -think we've covered it all now , appreciate the replies from both sides of the discussion. Cheers. We'll move on, and get sorted - have a viewing tonight, and contacted landlord who said he'll get back to me about extending until we have somewhere...

She didn't leave you destitute on the street, so to call her toxic for not wanting a young family to move in with her indefinitely is melodramatic and unfair.

intheclouds

Its a bit much to be calling the MIL "toxic" because she doesnt want to have 3 extra people (one of them a noisy child) living in her home for an unspecified period of time to allow THEM to save money for a house deposit.

Yes, letting you down 4 weeks before you were due to move is a thoughtless.

The irony is not lost on me that you wanted use of her home, to save money for yourselves, and because she doesnt want things YOUR way she is suddenly seen as toxic and you want to cut her out. It says a lot really - if family are THAT important to you that you would suffer any amount of disruption - you seem awful quick to cut her out?

I dont buy into the "let family move in for 20 years" nonsense at all. Its not about being unhelpful, its about the disruption to her life.

You are adults, with a child, you need to sort out your own living arrangements and not be dependent on the goodwill of a family member to let you live for almost free while you save a deposit. Its quite selfish to expect that tbh. Of course you say you didnt expect her to say yes, but your reaction to her saying no tells a different story.

Augme

anonbloke wrote: »

Perhaps we come from different backgrounds or family relationships... My parents/sister/aunts/uncles etc would let you move in for 20 years if you wanted. Even friends at work would let us move in until we were sorted.

anonbloke wrote: »

An Uncle has offered, and yes, probability we will take him up on it.

anonbloke wrote: »

We never expected that she would say yes, we hoped she would, but in the end, the result is the same.I don't expect she will phone or text, she won't know where her daughter or grandchild live.

Given how all of the above it strikes me as bizarre that you asked her in the first place. If I was very cynical I'd be of the opinion that you engineered all of this in the hope that it would turn out like this so you'd have a "valid" reason for cutting her out. That's honestly the only logical conclusion I can come to.