Aer Lingus Cadetship 2017

NH2013

Aer Lingus Cadetship for future pilots opens today.

careers.aerlingus.com/careers-in-the-air/cadet-pilots/index.html

Best of luck to all!

(Sorry for being unable to post link due to forum rules, perhaps Mod could add a clickable link)

Bussywussy

http://careers.aerlingus.com/careers-in-the-air/cadet-pilots/

I was looking at this yesterday. The page, and FAQs seem a little vague.
I was wondering if anyone might be able to help me out here.

What are the costs involved? Do AerLingus pay for your training/accommodation?
When do you start earning?
Whats the expected starting salary of someone who goes through the cadet training?

Basically, if anyone has completed this previously, a quick overview would be great. Thanks

gav4321

I applied for this myself and have done in previous years.

This year them seem very vague in what they are saying in terms of covering costs. I know last year it was fully funded. Maybe they haven't decided yet.

I read somewhere that EI will pay cadets a small allowance during their training.

Starting out as a First Officer with EI you can expect in the region of 60k.

Cessna_Pilot

gav4321 wrote: »

I applied for this myself and have done in previous years.

This year them seem very vague in what they are saying in terms of covering costs. I know last year it was fully funded. Maybe they haven't decided yet.

I read somewhere that EI will pay cadets a small allowance during their training.

Starting out as a First Officer with EI you can expect in the region of 60k.

60k really? I was under the impression it was closer to 42k plus extras. And that was for direct entry guys. I could be way off though of course

gav4321

From what I have heard and read it would be around 60k.

Then you would have your extras such as standyby flights, pension etc.

Tenger

Guy on the EI facebook page asking why the entry requirements were so high. Apparently he "would be a good pilot".
Those high levels "stop so many people applying".... oh how I giggled.

Tenger

gav4321 wrote: »

This year them seem very vague in what they are saying in terms of covering costs. I know last year it was fully funded. Maybe they haven't decided yet.

I read somewhere that EI will pay cadets a small allowance during their training. .

If I remember correctly they were vague on this last year too. Previously it has been 50% and 75% funded.

I too believe the 60K quoted about to be approx 1/3 too high.

reason vs religion

I read that EI has 15000 pilots, only 50 of whom are women. Astonishing if true. But another article said that they're above the industry average in having ten percent women pilots.

That second article also said that pilots start off on €40k.

Pat Dunne

reason vs religion wrote: »

I read that EI has 15000 pilots, only 50 of whom are women. Astonishing if true. But another article said that they're above the industry average in having ten percent women pilots.

That second article also said that pilots start off on €40k.

Any chance of a link to the article which states EI have fifteen thousand pilots?

reason vs religion

Up, up and away! Aer Lingus begin recruiting for 2016 pilot cadetship | Independent.

I was also dubious of the number, but assumed that there was some reason peculiar to airlines that resulted in so many being needed. But considering they have a fleetsize of 50, it seems most improbable. It would probably make EI the largest private sector employer in Ireland!

Bussywussy

That is an old link.there's not even about 5000 staff in total,not a mind 15000 pilots.

reason vs religion

Bussywussy wrote: »

That is an old link.there's not even about 5000 staff in total,not a mind 15000 pilots.

It's less than twelve months old! Are you suggesting they have cut their staff by over two thirds in the meantime?!

Pat Dunne

reason vs religion wrote: »

Up, up and away! Aer Lingus begin recruiting for 2016 pilot cadetship | Independent.

I was also dubious of the number, but assumed that there was some reason peculiar to airlines that resulted in so many being needed. But considering they have a fleetsize of 50, it seems most improbable. It would probably make EI the largest private sector employer in Ireland!

I wouldn't be dubious, I would simply discount it as a typo or a figure plucked straight out of the air.

Tenger

Bussywussy wrote: »

That is an old link.there's not even about 5000 staff in total,not a mind 15000 pilots.

I think EI have approx 4000 total staff.
Media approx 2 years ago stated 450 flight crew and 1200 cabin crew.

gav4321

has anyone got to the second stage yet or does anyone know when they will be sending out the next lot of questions?

I know previously you only had 2/3 days to complete these and i would imagine it will be the same this year.

Bussywussy

reason vs religion wrote: »

It's less than twelve months old! Are you suggesting they have cut their staff by over two thirds in the meantime?!

Old link to last cadetship and nothing to do with this.I think the figure like pat says is probably plucked out of the air.

_Tombstone_

Tenger wrote: »

Guy on the EI facebook page asking why the entry requirements were so high. Apparently he "would be a good pilot".
Those high levels "stop so many people applying".... oh how I giggled.

What exactly were you giggling at?

1123heavy

_Tombstone_ wrote: »

What exactly were you giggling at?

I don't know about Tenger but I giggled too, and it was at how anyone can complain about the required grades being too high, in previous years they were extremely low, this year they actually got lower, especially when considering the requirements for other cadetships where you actually have to pay. Being free, they are within their rights to even demand a B or C at higher level maths. Too high ... ?

Edited to add Aer Lingus have circa 550 pilots. That figure was given to me by a HR lady from EI at the 2015 assessment, a good rule of thumb is always to allow 10-15 pilots per aircraft in a fleet.

reason vs religion

1123heavy wrote: »

I don't know about Tenger but I giggled too, and it was at how anyone can complain about the required grades being too high, in previous years they were extremely low, this year they actually got lower, especially when considering the requirements for other cadetships where you actually have to pay. Being free, they are within their rights to even demand a B or C at higher level maths. Too high ... ?

Edited to add Aer Lingus have circa 550 pilots. That figure was given to me by a HR lady from EI at the 2015 assessment, a good rule of thumb is always to allow 10-15 pilots per aircraft in a fleet.

I suppose, when the requirements are that low, you'd wonder why bother excluding people without a leaving cert. Someone who, for whatever reason, didn't sit the lc is surely not necessarily worse than someone who only got passes in maths and English and two higher C3's.

That 550 figure would make sense if you combine the number of women pilots given as 50 in the first article and that ten percent of pilots are women, which I found in another article.

tricky D

Considering there were ~4000 applicants for 28 places on the last round, upping the requirements makes sense.

1123heavy

tricky D wrote: »

Considering there were ~4000 applicants for 28 places on the last round, upping the requirements makes sense.

It certainly does, it is difficult not to meet the requirements for anyone who made a remote attempt at doing well in the LC. So anyone complaining about EI paying €100,000+ and putting any sort of a standard to apply really has some cheek imo.

Someone who, for whatever reason, didn't sit the lc is surely not necessarily worse than someone who only got passes in maths and English and two higher C3's.

This year they're accepting level 7 in the case of not meeting the LC requirements though. So even with no higher subjects and probably a fail at ordinary maths you can still apply. I know loads with level 7's who got extremely poor results in the LC.

arccosh

Threw in for this, so it was fully funded last year, but might not be this year?

Any more info on the bond, from what I saw on the site, it seems like you'll be in it for a very long time (not that I'm complaining, with the amount of money they'll pump into your training, just curious about it)

1123heavy

arccosh wrote: »

Threw in for this, so it was fully funded last year, but might not be this year?

Any more info on the bond, from what I saw on the site, it seems like you'll be in it for a very long time (not that I'm complaining, with the amount of money they'll pump into your training, just curious about it)

Nothing has been mentioned about funding, I think it would be safe to assume it was fully funded like last year for 3 reasons.
- If there was a change to the status quo, Aer Lingus would certainly more than likely make people aware of it.
- Second, if a sum of money was required by the applicant, then Aer Lingus would have to say from the start as they wouldn't want a load of applications to have to deal with to then find out most applicants haven't got the cash.
- Lastly, in previous years where cash was required, they have always stated from the start that it is required and also how much of it is necessary.

Bsal

I emailed Aer Lingus HR today to find out if someone with a PPL is eligible to apply and this is the response I received.

Dear Applicant,
Many thanks for your email.

Unfortunately, the cadetship programme is only open to untrained candidates who do not hold any licences (valid/expired)

You may apply for the Direct Entry Pilot position if advertised in the near future.

Thank you for your interest in Aer Lingus
Yours sincerely
The Aer Lingus Recruitment Team

In previous years I think it was allowed upto PPL level, so that counts me out now.

1123heavy

Bsal wrote: »

I emailed Aer Lingus HR today to find out if someone with a PPL is eligible to apply and this is the response I received.

Dear Applicant,
Many thanks for your email.

Unfortunately, the cadetship programme is only open to untrained candidates who do not hold any licences (valid/expired)

You may apply for the Direct Entry Pilot position if advertised in the near future.

Thank you for your interest in Aer Lingus
Yours sincerely
The Aer Lingus Recruitment Team

In previous years I think it was allowed upto PPL level, so that counts me out now.

Just after seeing that there on pprune yeh, tough going and surprising, you sure the hr person just hadnt a clue and thought it was a professional license?

Bsal

I was thinking that the HR person may not fully understand the various license types after reading the reply. Think I will email them back just to get clarification.

wolf dao

Bsal wrote: »

I was thinking that the HR person may not fully understand the various license types after reading the reply. Think I will email them back just to get clarification.

Bsal let us know what they say please. That would be disappointing if they were refusing ppl holders this year! thanks

Phen2206

Bsal wrote: »

I was thinking that the HR person may not fully understand the various license types after reading the reply. Think I will email them back just to get clarification.

I would definitely agree. Of the cadets who have been chosen over the last few years, many have had PPLs (or a number of hours approaching close to that required for a PPL) and I can see no reason why EI would suddenly decide not to accept applications from PPL holders. Go on ahead and apply!

Tenger

Bsal wrote: »

I was thinking that the HR person may not fully understand the various license types after reading the reply. Think I will email them back just to get clarification.

I would be of this line of thinking, having a PPL would demonstrate precisely the commitment that they want to see in potential cadets. (especially if the applicant is young and self funded)

Telling a PPL to follow the Direct Entry channel shows a serious misunderstanding of the gap from having a PPL to being able to go DE!

rudders

Personally don't think the LC requirements should even be considered. With the vast amounts of aptitude testing and physimetric testing you go through they'll be able to tell if your intelligent enough anyway. LC results are pretty high especially for students from DEIS schools, they are at a disadvantage. I'd like to think programmes like this are aimed at these particular people as it would give them a chance they might have never had. Having a level 7 or any college qualification would far outweigh the LC so why not let that be part of the requirements.

Anyway guys, good luck in the process. Hopefully it's 3rd time lucky for me.

Squishe92

Have you all just uploaded a CV or both CV and Covering Letter?

1123heavy

rudders wrote: »

Having a level 7 or any college qualification would far outweigh the LC so why not let that be part of the requirements.

Anyway guys, good luck in the process. Hopefully it's 3rd time lucky for me.

From my experience in college, the effort required for a good LC dwarfs that required in college. I also feel that somebody who has had a passion for flying and wanted to be a pilot from a young age (displaying the motivation I think Aer Lingus look for) would have made it their business to at least get half decent LC grades. My school was by no means privileged, it comes down to the individual effort of each student I believe.

rudders

1123heavy wrote: »

From my experience in college, the effort required for a good LC dwarfs that required in college. I also feel that somebody who has had a passion for flying and wanted to be a pilot from a young age (displaying the motivation I think Aer Lingus look for) would have made it their business to at least get half decent LC grades. My school was by no means privileged, it comes down to the individual effort of each student I believe.

I'd have to disagree. I done pretty decent in my LC and I'm going into my final year of college and have had many sleepless nights studying for exams the past 3 years. I genuinely don't see the LC as a way to determine if one is smart enough to be pilot or not, especially with the current LC structure. In fact I know a guy in his mid 20s who doesn't even have a LC and is a Ryanair FO 2 years now, self sponsored and flew in Poland.

1123heavy

rudders wrote: »

I'd have to disagree. I done pretty decent in my LC and I'm going into my final year of college and have had many sleepless nights studying for exams the past 3 years. I genuinely don't see the LC as a way to determine if one is smart enough to be pilot or not, especially with the current LC structure. In fact I know a guy in his mid 20s who doesn't even have a LC and is a Ryanair FO 2 years now, self sponsored and flew in Poland.

I certainly would agree it is possible to be a pilot without an LC, I never said you couldn't. Go get a licence and work your way up based on it, of course no LC required. My point is that to apply for a cadetship, it should certainly be a requirement, every other cadetship out there has A-levels/LC as a requirement. Reason being that it's proof of being able to complete a tight and compact course of education in a tight schedule, similar to that of flight training. As well as demonstrating motivation. BA and EZY themselves said this when explaining their requirements, not me talking of my own accord.

And I'm just done 3rd yr of a level 8 degree and have been sailing through with top grades, and honest to God, it has not required a fraction of the effort I put into my LC. I know someone with an Level 7, 3 years spent partying and a third year full of repeats (got the Level 7 in the end though), no HL subjects at LC either, they are able to apply though. Not that I have an issue with them being able to, it just doesn't fit that as they seem unequal requirements to what someone who worked their backside off in the LC got.

rudders

1123heavy wrote: »

I certainly would agree it is possible to be a pilot without an LC, I never said you couldn't. Go get a licence and work your way up based on it, of course no LC required. My point is that to apply for a cadetship, it should certainly be a requirement, every other cadetship out there has A-levels/LC as a requirement. Reason being that it's proof of being able to complete a tight and compact course of education in a tight schedule, similar to that of flight training. As well as demonstrating motivation. BA and EZY themselves said this when explaining their requirements, not me talking of my own accord.

And I'm just done 3rd yr of a level 8 degree and have been sailing through with top grades, and honest to God, it has not required a fraction of the effort I put into my LC. I know someone with an Level 7, 3 years spent partying and a third year full of repeats (got the Level 7 in the end though), no HL subjects at LC either, they are able to apply though. Not that I have an issue with them being able to, it just doesn't fit that as they seem unequal requirements to what someone who worked their backside off in the LC got.

And that's the thing, some people suit college education better than school education, it's two completely different methods of teaching. This is why I like that EI consider the degree or the aviation related qualification as apposed to the LC. Also people who have had under privileged upbringing have a chance of applying too, which is fantastic for them. Then anyone who doesn't fit the bill in the aptitude and phycological testing can be filtered out. I personally think it's a fantastic opportunity and I belive everyone should be able to apply.

As far as I know the air corps don't consider LC once you've obtained a degree too. Degree must be 2:2 so if your repeating your unlikely to get this.

reason vs religion

The thing, though, about the minimum being such mediocre grades, is that you are only excluding people who were entirely disengaged from schooling; you're not selecting for people who committed themselves to the leaving and possess the skills that a decent lc requires. Those people who are so disengaged as to not have achieved the bear minimum are overwhelmingly likely to be from disadvantaged backgrounds. And while it's probably the case that many/most of those people who got sub-200 lc's aren't suited to becoming pilots, some will be. (Maybe those who had a tough childhood, but have since recovered.) The lc requirement, therefore, achieves nothing beneficial and is unnecessarily excluding of some.

1123heavy

reason vs religion wrote: »

The lc requirement, therefore, achieves nothing beneficial and is unnecessarily excluding of some.

I think most would heavily disagree. Do you realise just about every cadet program on the planet requires an lc or its equivalent? HR aren't that bored to be asking for useless items, there is a reason, and a very good one.

Negative_G

rudders wrote: »

As far as I know the air corps don't consider LC once you've obtained a degree too. Degree must be 2:2 so if your repeating your unlikely to get this.

To the best of my knowledge, the Air Corps use LC results as a criteria for joining. You must meet the requirements regardless of any degree you may have.

reason vs religion

1123heavy wrote: »

I think most would heavily disagree. Do you realise just about every cadet program on the planet requires an lc or its equivalent? HR aren't that bored to be asking for useless items, there is a reason, and a very good one.

I gave a pretty detailed rationale behind my opinion. Perhaps you'd like to give yours.

rudders

I'm almost certain with the air corps criteria a degree superseded the LC. I just belive the apptitude testing is a much much much more accurate reading of testing ones ability to be a pilot. Dissing potentially amazing candidates just because they got a d3 in maths or a d1 in English or didn't get two higher c3 is ridicules. Also completely ignores LCA students, these are student with a more practical mindset of learning. All applications should be welcome once LC is complete and apptitude will determine who progresses. I think this is where EI are looking to go too by the looks of the changing criteria, which I agree of from a business sense.

McSween

If i was considered weak in red/green in online colour test am i wasting my time doing this. I have never had a doctor confirm it.

Tenger

McSween wrote: »

If i was considered weak in red/green in online colour test am i wasting my time doing this. I have never had a doctor confirm it.

Its your time, your decision on whether applying is a waste of it.

If its your hearts desire then you need to get that checked out medically. No harm applying now, all it costs is time and a little effort. Maybe schedule an eye test.

I know of 1 guy who got excluded due colour blindness....turned his back on the career he had spent his teenage years aiming for. Later heard about a new test/standard. He realised the he was eligible for flight crew. Went self funded, got his ATPL/CPL and flew with Ryanair and is now doing longhaul F/O with BA.

evergreen101

Just got confirmation - PPL is acceptable

Bsal

I got a response also on the PPL issue, seems the HR person just hadn't a clue the other day.

Dear Applicant,

Thanks for your response

Only commercial pilot license holders are exempt from applying for the cadetship programme.
You may apply if you do not hold an ATPL or CPL (Licence) as stated on the job vacancy

Many thanks for your interest in Aer Lingus
Best Regards,

From someone who says they work for EI on pprune, recruitment this year is:
All in-house
PPL is acceptable (HR error!)
No assessment fee involved

rudders

McSween wrote: »

If i was considered weak in red/green in online colour test am i wasting my time doing this. I have never had a doctor confirm it.

I'm also weak red/green. There's a lantern test you can take in the aeromedical centre that's designed for colour deficient pilots. It's relatively easy to pass kind of like a traffic light but on a much smaller scale. I think it's 120€ to do. I can't pass the isihara plates for the life of me

cuterob

Is all you have to do is create an account, tick all the boxes and upload your cv? that's all I did, feels like their should be more at first?

arccosh

in regards to the process,

1) sorting then do online assesment
2) group day if assesment is passed (September)
3) ?

it says in the FAQ, that interview dates are not changeable, but when do they happen? is it on the same day as the group assesment? or are you called back?

then what, medicals I suppose?

Bsal

arccosh wrote: »

in regards to the process,

1) sorting then do online assesment
2) group day if assesment is passed (September)
3) ?

it says in the FAQ, that interview dates are not changeable, but when do they happen? is it on the same day as the group assesment? or are you called back?

then what, medicals I suppose?

The interview is part of the group stage assessment held in Dublin between Monday 26th September 2016 and Friday 30th September 2016.

arccosh

Thanks!

Last silly question, will there be a group assesment day, or does it take place over the week?

colbarr

arccosh wrote: »

Thanks!

Last silly question, will there be a group assesment day, or does it take place over the week?

Last year it was all done in one day, Interview, Group Assessment, pilot aptitude test (PILAPT) and general aptitude tests. Each day had two groups of 8, one starting at around 8am and the other at around 11am if memory serves me correctly and It went on for around 8 hours.

Hope this helps.