Hidden camera in the canteen.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Thought there was something dodgy about the smoke alarm in the canteen today, had a closer look and there's a camera inside. What's the legality of having a hidden camera at work? I honestly feel like going to the Gardaí.

deco nate

The Hunky Monster wrote: »

Thought there was something dodgy about the smoke alarm in the canteen today, had a closer look and there's a camera inside. What's the legality of having a hidden camera at work? I honestly feel like going to the Gardaí.

the business is required by law to have a sign up.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

deco nate wrote: »

the business is required by law to have a sign up.

There's no sign. The camera is hidden inside a smoke detector. It's not even like the camera is on display.

deco nate

The Hunky Monster wrote: »

There's no sign. The camera is hidden inside a smoke detector. It's not even like the camera is on display.

I know the type you're on about, it's illegal,. You can tell them so, or report them. But to whom I don't know who takes care of these things

rawn

The Hunky Monster wrote: »

There's no sign. The camera is hidden inside a smoke detector. It's not even like the camera is on display.

Well now they know that you know!

It's illegal if staff are unaware of it, wasn't there a case against Dunnes Stores recently where they caught a worker on camera eating deli food on the job and fired her, she sued and won because they never informed staff they were being recorded? I would talk to them, and ask them straight out why there is a hidden camera rather than going straight to the Gardaí. But I would take as many clear pictures of it as possible before hand.

crazygeryy

Why dont you act dumb and just ask your boss why is that Camera there?does it record sound as well?
Surely he cant fire you for asking questions.especially if its illegal.

mass_debater

The vast majority of work places have cameras everywhere and log all door entries and exits. You're being recorded at all times in every factory and shop in the country. All they need is a single sign that says premises monitored and they're covered.

2RockMountain

mass_debater wrote: »

The vast majority of work places have cameras everywhere and log all door entries and exits. You're being recorded at all times in every factory and shop in the country. All they need is a single sign that says premises monitored and they're covered.

You're way off the mark. A single sign does not override the requirements of data protection legislation:

https://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Data-Protection-CCTV/m/242.htm

From that page:

Other uses may fail the test of proportionality. For example, using a CCTV system to constantly monitor employees is highly intrusive and would need to be justified by reference to special circumstances. If the monitoring is for health and safety reasons, a data controller would need to demonstrate that the installation of CCTV was proportionate in addressing health and safety issues that had arisen prior to the installation of the system.

gordongekko

Once its not in the loos i dont see the problem. If youre not doing anything wrong youve nothing to worry about. I know all i do in our canteen is eat.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

gordongekko wrote: »

Once its not in the loos i dont see the problem. If youre not doing anything wrong youve nothing to worry about. I know all i do in our canteen is eat.

Normally I wouldn't mind. BUT... There has been an issue with this company before firing people instead of giving redundancy for things that happened and were captured on hidden cameras. I can't say too much.

Can a mod please move this thread to legal issues please?

Renegade Mechanic

gordongekko wrote: »

Once its not in the loos i dont see the problem. If youre not doing anything wrong youve nothing to worry about. I know all i do in our canteen is eat.

Yeah no. All we did in our canteen was "blow off steam" between bites, for want of a better term

If there was a camera in any canteen where I worked, I'd just eat in the car. Not worth the potential drama..

2RockMountain

gordongekko wrote: »

I know all i do in our canteen is eat.

Do you ever talk to work mates about work issues? Do you ever express a political opinion, or a social opinion?

BreadnBuddha

The very fact that the camera is hidden is enough to tell you it's not there for normal surveillance purposes.

I'm all in favour of extensive CCTV use in business premises, but this is a black and white breach of the Data Protection Act.

Do not approach your employer directly. Contact the Data Protection Commissioner tomorrow morning and ask what is required to enable them investigate a complaint:

Data Protection Commissioner
Canal House
Station Road
Portarlington
Laois
Ireland
Opening Hours:09:15-17:30
Tel:+353 57 868 4800
Locall:1890 252231
Fax:+353 57 868 4757
Homepage: http://www.dataprotection.ie
Email: info@dataprotection.ie

They will advise you on how to proceed, in terms of whether it should be reported to the Gardai initially, etc.

That last bit might seem like an over-reaction, but the fool who installs hidden cameras in a canteen could just as foolishly put them into staff changing areas and so on.

Don't delay.

Sleeper12

Is the canteen run by your employer? Or is it a privately run canteen?

If it is a privately run canteen it may not be illegal imo.

gordongekko

2RockMountain wrote: »

Do you ever talk to work mates about work issues? Do you ever express a political opinion, or a social opinion?

No

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Is the canteen run by your employer? Or is it a privately run canteen?

If it is a privately run canteen it may not be illegal imo.

Employers canteen yes. They have done this years ago to catch people smoking etc and fired them on the spot rather than pay redundancy. They're looking to fire people again imo. It's not they type of place you could steal things either so it's not for that. Can't be a health and safety issue either...surely? It's extremely suspicious.

Sleeper12

The Hunky Monster wrote:

Employers canteen yes. They have done this years ago to catch people smoking etc and fired them on the spot rather than pay redundancy. They're looking to fire people again imo. It's not they type of place you could steal things either so it's not for that. Can't be a health and safety issue either...surely? It's extremely suspicious.

I thought it might be an outside catering company rather than the kitchen staff actually being employed by your boss.

If it is an outside catering company and they put it up rather than your boss then you are a customer rather than an employee, again, IMO

The Moldy Gowl

Don't forget they have your head up around sniffing at it.

Stheno

The Hunky Monster wrote: »

Employers canteen yes. They have done this years ago to catch people smoking etc and fired them on the spot rather than pay redundancy. They're looking to fire people again imo. It's not they type of place you could steal things either so it's not for that. Can't be a health and safety issue either...surely? It's extremely suspicious.

How did you know it was there in the past?

Sleeper12

Btw those cameras have audio but its not necessarily wired for sound

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Stheno wrote: »

How did you know it was there in the past?

There was a camera placed there for a week a number of years ago to catch employees smoking in the canteen. It was put up with that purpose and some people were fired. We're wondering why it's there again...

Stheno

The Hunky Monster wrote: »

There was a camera placed there for a week a number of years ago to catch employees smoking in the canteen. It was put up with that purpose and some people were fired. We're wondering why it's there again...

How did you know it was there? I'm wondering if there was a precedent set due to that.

Shannon757

The Moldy Gowl wrote: »

Don't forget they have your head up around sniffing at it.

Such an appropriate avatar.

The Moldy Gowl

Shannon757 wrote: »

Such an appropriate avatar.

Hidden cameras at the business factory?

It must be bojack trying to catch me out being 3 small children standing on eachothers shoulders

j.s. pill II

Very pertinent article in the Irish Independent this morning!

livedadream

Bageaux Cannes wrote: »

There was a camera placed there for a week a number of years ago to catch employees smoking in the canteen. It was put up with that purpose and some people were fired. We're wondering why it's there again...

smoking inside a workplace in Ireland has been illegal for over 12 years...

of course they were sacked...

testicles

This post has been deleted.

Pawwed Rig

gordongekko wrote: »

Once its not in the loos i dont see the problem. If youre not doing anything wrong youve nothing to worry about. I know all i do in our canteen is eat.

This again.

Would you object to a camera in your house?
If you're doing nothing wrong then nothing to worry about right?

Mrs OBumble

testicles wrote: »

Cameras, even overt ones, in staff canteens are in breach of the Data Protection Acts.

Not necessarily.

If goods are being sold to staff, then they may be a very proportionate way to manage dishonesty allegations.

2RockMountain

gordongekko wrote: »

No

But you understand that many people do discuss work matters, or personal matters, or political matters, or social matters with workmates in the canteen - right?

TOEJOE

Listen to Sean O Rourke this morning, interesting talking to the Data Protection Officer on this issue.

Tabnabs

In one case, an employee of a supermarket was dismissed for “gross misconduct” after she placed a paper bag over a CCTV camera in a staff canteen. The commissioner told the business that, in her view, there was no justification for having CCTV installed in the canteen area.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/complaint-by-defence-forces-member-destroyed-in-burglary-and-flood-1.2693205

seamus

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Not necessarily.

If goods are being sold to staff, then they may be a very proportionate way to manage dishonesty allegations.

Correct. If the canteen includes a till then you could justify a camera in the canteen to ensure that transactions were being carried out correctly.

The scope of the video though would need to be quite strictly restricted both to the till area and to times when the till was stocked/in use.

"I have a camera in there because there's a till in there" would be no defence for monitoring the entire canteen.

irish_dave_83

2RockMountain wrote: »

But you understand that many people do discuss work matters, or personal matters, or political matters, or social matters with workmates in the canteen - right?

Generally CCTV doesn't record audio. Some do, but the majority don't. That's a whole other legal minefield.
I would be surprised if the CCTV in your canteen does record audio, but its worth querying with the Management. They cant say much to you for querying the use of CCTV and it capabilities. Whatever about recording footage of you, you have a right to know if they are recording what you are saying without your knowledge. Any action taken against someone would/may not be admissible otherwise should it ever end up in court.

2RockMountain

irish_dave_83 wrote: »

Generally CCTV doesn't record audio. Some do, but the majority don't. That's a whole other legal minefield.
I would be surprised if the CCTV in your canteen does record audio, but its worth querying with the Management. They cant say much to you for querying the use of CCTV and it capabilities. Whatever about recording footage of you, you have a right to know if they are recording what you are saying without your knowledge. Any action taken against someone would/may not be admissible otherwise should it ever end up in court.

Audio isn't the core issue here.

If the employee is reluctant to raise the issue with their employer, they can always take it directly to the Data Protection Commissioner.

ziedth

I'd be 99.9% sure it's illegal I worked in a place that almost literally covered every inch of the premises with CCTV for fear of employee theft with the exception of the toilets and staff canteen. If they could have had cameras in these places they would have.

duploelabs

ziedth wrote: »

I'd be 99.9% sure it's illegal I worked in a place that almost literally covered every inch of the premises with CCTV for fear of employee theft with the exception of the toilets and staff canteen. If they could have had cameras in these places they would have.

You still have to sign consent

moc moc a moc

gordongekko wrote: »

Once its not in the loos i dont see the problem. If youre not doing anything wrong youve nothing to worry about

Are you doing something wrong in the loos?

The Moldy Gowl

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Are you doing something wrong in the loos?

Aren't we all?

ted1

Don't illegally smoke in a canteen and don't do things in work that would get you sacked

Ann22

I'd be afraid they'd find a reason to make my job unbearable if rhey couldn't fire me. Maybe if you say you overheard a group of people talking about it so it's not only you that's been complaining? Sorry...I'm a coward. I wouldn't like to see you posting here in a few months being miserable as sin having to wash the wheelie bins and clean the toilets on your own with different tea breaks to everyone else and having to work weekends till 11 at night :-(

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

ted1

Ann22 wrote: »

I'd be afraid they'd find a reason to make my job unbearable if rhey couldn't fire me. Maybe if you say you overheard a group of people talking about it so it's not only you that's been complaining? Sorry...I'm a coward. I wouldn't like to see you posting here in a few months being miserable as sin having to wash the wheelie bins and clean the toilets on your own with different tea breaks to everyone else and having to work weekends till 11 at night :-(

If they make it unbearable then that could be considered as constructive dismiss which is illegal

Bandana boy

Do you have a Union ? Are some people agitating for a Union ?

I know years ago there was a serial rapist attacking women in Walmart car-parks
They had footage from some Walmarts but not from others and it turned out that Walmart only invests in CCTV for the car-park on stores where they had rumors of Union agitators.

The Moldy Gowl

Any update to this OP?