Can Irish immigration officer ask questions to Irish citizens

vg88

So I was coming into Dublin with Ryanair and got to the new civilian immigration and presented my passport. She then asked where was I coming from to which I relied why was she asking. She rudely stated that she's an immigration officer and would put me into an a holding area if I didn't tell her.

So I've travelled through Dublin airport 10-20 each year but have never got this off Irish immigration. Actually I never have been asked any questions at any european airport.

So does irish immigration to have the power to "demand" information off irish citizens?

schemingbohemia

Yes. Asking immigration officers why they're asking questions doesn't generally end well.

awec

Of course they can ask. Where were you flying from?

SimonTemplar

I've been asked this before at Dublin. Why wouldn't you answer them. It not like it's super sensitive information

VisibleGorilla

Can they ask you questions? Yep.

Are you required to answer? Nope.

Should you answer to get you out of there ASAP? Yes.

Marcusm

The powers of civilian immigration officers (ie not members of AGs) are set out in the Immigration Act 2004. You must answer all reasonable inquiries for them to perform their duties. Once you handed them an Irish passport you fulfilled any reasonable request they might have had as there are no further restrictions on Irish citizens entering the country. Any detention would, IMO, have been unlawful. Personally I have often been asked at Dublin airport where I've come from - generally when arriving at B gates in terminal 1, I have assumed that the officer was just trying to establish that those trailing behind me were coming from a UK flight and thus may not have passports.

Mr. Incognito

There should really be a sticky around here entitled;

"Today I said something stupid to someone in Authority and I want to know what they can do about it!.

With the generic answer; Keep your mouth shut in future.

GerardKeating

moloner4 wrote: »

So I was coming into Dublin with Ryanair and got to the new civilian immigration and presented my passport. She then asked where was I coming from to which I relied why was she asking. She rudely stated that she's an immigration officer and would put me into an a holding area if I didn't tell her.

So I've travelled through Dublin airport 10-20 each year but have never got this off Irish immigration. Actually I never have been asked any questions at any european airport.

So does irish immigration to have the power to "demand" information off irish citizens?

So how do you think she can tell if you are an Irish citizen, or a foreigner travelling on a fake passport.

coylemj

GerardKeating wrote: »

So how do you think she can tell if you are an Irish citizen, or a foreigner travelling on a fake passport.

+1 it's often the case that when a Garda stops you at a checkpoint and asks a simple question, they're more interested in how you respond than the substance of your answer.

A parallel to the OP's situation that got discussed recently was the attitude of a poster who produced his driving licence at a checkpoint whereupon the Garda then asked him his name. Cue an outraged response along the lines of 'can't you fcuking read?' when the case was validly made in the thread on boards that the driver could have had a sheaf of false licences on him so it was a valid question though it's more likely that the Garda simply wanted him to say something to see if he was drunk or sober.

So don't get stroppy when an official asks you a question, just give a polite answer and you'll be on your way before long.

vg88

This was a legal question, not what I should answer to a civilian authority. I don't like to hand out my information unless it's an a most.

So do they have legal power to detain an Irish citizen who has presented an Irish passport with no issue to the passport?

CaraMay

I wish they would ask more questions to people coming into the country

Jawgap

TBH, chances were they were only asking so they'd know which flight was starting to come through.

That said, these new immigration officers are a bit of a joke in their US-style uniforms. While they may be well trained at screening documents, I doubt they've sufficient acumen to properly screen someone through questioning.

Kimbot

"3.—(1) The Minister may appoint such and so many persons as he or she considers appropriate (referred to in this Act as “immigration officers”) to perform the functions conferred on immigration officers by this Act and every person so appointed shall hold office on such terms and conditions as may be determined by the Minister at the time of the appointment.

(2) The Minister may, with the consent of the Minister for Health and Children, appoint such and so many registered medical practitioners (referred to in this Act as “medical inspectors”) as he or she considers appropriate to perform the functions conferred on medical inspectors by this Act and every person so appointed shall hold office on such terms and conditions as may be determined by the Minister (with the consent of the Minister for Health and Children) at the time of the appointment.

(3) An immigration officer or a medical inspector appointed under this Act shall have power to enter or board any vessel, and to detain and examine any person arriving at or leaving any port in the State who is reasonably believed by the officer or inspector to be a non-national, and to require the production of a passport or other equivalent identity document by such person, and shall have such other powers and duties as are conferred upon him or her by this Act."

Basically they can ask you what they want to establish if you are who you say you are.

CaraMay

Jawgap wrote: »

TBH, chances were they were only asking so they'd know which flight was starting to come through.

That said, these new immigration officers are a bit of a joke in their US-style uniforms. While they may be well trained at screening documents, I doubt they've sufficient acumen to properly screen someone through questioning.

They are all cops

vg88

jonnycivic wrote: »

Basically they can ask you what they want to establish if you are who you say you are.

So i present an Irish passport, no issues with that and if I don't tell what airport I came from I got told I'd get detained. So it could be said it was an abuse of power by the civil servants?

trellheim

They are all cops

They are not. They used to be until recently.

Kimbot

moloner4 wrote: »

So i present an Irish passport, no issues with that and if I don't tell what airport I came from I got told I'd get detained. So it could be said it was an abuse of power by the civil servants?

You could be detained, it wouldnt be an abuse of power. Just because you hand over an Irish passport it doesnt mean they have to stop asking questions etc. Passports can be forged and all these days so alot of the immigration staff will be extra careful. They may only want to know where you came from as a means to see if your lying to them. (Lets just say you said you just came in from Amsterdam but there wasnt a flight from there since the day before or something like that).

Take a look at that australian programme on tv in the airport and how strict they are sure and they are also civilian staff.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

awec

moloner4 wrote: »

This was a legal question, not what I should answer to a civilian authority. I don't like to hand out my information unless it's an a most.

So do they have legal power to detain an Irish citizen who has presented an Irish passport with no issue to the passport?

What information? What flight you were on is not "your information", they can just go look it up if they have to.

vg88

awec wrote: »

What information? What flight you were on is not "your information", they can just go look it up if they have to.

But from the quote of the legislation there doesn't seem to be a legal requirement to present such information?
I'm not trying to get into a stupid government thread (would of posted it in after hours) but trying to look at from legally is a there a power to do such.

c_meth

moloner4 wrote: »

This was a legal question, not what I should answer to a civilian authority. I don't like to hand out my information unless it's an a most.

So do they have legal power to detain an Irish citizen who has presented an Irish passport with no issue to the passport?

You seem to have a problem with the authority being civilian?

The police who used to work there weren't happy with having to give up that cushy number. The new checks are performed at a fraction of the cost to the state... resulting in many irate police men/women. Some of whom frequent online forums.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

awec

draiochtanois wrote: »

If they can look it up if they have to - they should do so.

In the US if you use a credit card they often ask for id, I always decline, they always just go ahead anyway.

You'd prefer to wait longer for them to look it up rather than answer a simple question?

The mind boggles.

I can understand reluctance to hand over personal data, but refusing to say what flight you were on while standing in an airport at the immigration desk is just outright weird.

Kimbot

Look i only posted a small sample of the immigration act but basically they can ask you anything they want as long as its part of their job

11.—(1) Every person (other than a person under the age of 16 years) landing in the State shall be in possession of a valid passport or other equivalent document, issued by or on behalf of an authority recognised by the Government, which establishes his or her identity and nationality to the satisfaction of an immigration officer.

(2) Every person landing in or embarking from the State shall furnish to an immigration officer such information in such manner as the immigration officer may reasonably require for the purposes of the performance of his or her functions.

(3) A person who contravenes this section shall be guilty of an offence.

(4) This section does not apply to any person (other than a non-national) coming from or embarking for a place in the State, Great Britain or Northern Ireland.

They are only doing their job so if you comply there will be no hassle is the jist of it all.

vg88

jonnycivic wrote: »

Look i only posted a small sample of the immigration act but basically they can ask you anything they want as long as its part of their job



They are only doing their job so if you comply there will be no hassle is the jist of it all.

Grand that's what I was looking for. If I have to give the information I will, if not I won't.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Peintre Celebre

God some people are so ****ing awkward it's unreal. Why wouldn't people just answer the question? Some people are satisfied being dissatisfied, looking for conflict whenever they can. Unbelievable

vg88

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

God some people are so ****ing awkward it's unreal. Why wouldn't people just answer the question? Some people are satisfied being dissatisfied, looking for conflict whenever they can. Unbelievable

I've had family that had identify theft and fraud happen to them before for giving information out (yes involving officials). I always give minimal information because of such and hope the same won't happen to me.

Pro Hoc Vice

draiochtanois wrote: »

It matters not one whit where I am coming from. It's a moronic question.

They need to establish two things

That I am an Irish citizen

That my passport is not a forgery

Asking me where I am coming from is irrelevant.

What boggles your mind, it's own narrowness?

It's a question to just listen to the reply, listen to accent and to see demeanour. If you don't want to answer then don't.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Pro Hoc Vice

draiochtanois wrote: »

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

The person coming from a euro weekend away?

Look any one can ask anyone anything they want. If statute requires an answer then a person will be clearly told. Otherwise a person can refuse to answer but expect to be kept waiting will the official follows official procedure.

Esho

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

It's a question to just listen to the reply, listen to accent and to see demeanour. If you don't want to answer then don't.

I think so - we have an non-Irish surname, and Irish passports.
The immigration officers have asked the children questions the last two times we went through the airport, and I assumed they were listening out for the accent for some reason, maybe to see if the children had Irish accents.

What this would tell them, I don't know.

veetwin

Esho wrote: »

I think so - we have an non-Irish surname, and Irish passports.
The immigration officers have asked the children questions the last two times we went through the airport, and I assumed they were listening out for the accent for some reason, maybe to see if the children had Irish accents.

What this would tell them, I don't know.

Well I suppose it tells them that the children are being raised in Ireland and are not children being trafficked into the country.

No more than the OP being asked where he came from. The Immigration Officer probably couldn't care less where he came from he was just listening out for the accent.

Marcusm

coylemj wrote: »

+1 it's often the case that when a Garda stops you at a checkpoint and asks a simple question, they're more interested in how you respond than the substance of your answer.

A parallel to the OP's situation that got discussed recently was the attitude of a poster who produced his driving licence at a checkpoint whereupon the Garda then asked him his name. Cue an outraged response along the lines of 'can't you fcuking read?' when the case was validly made in the thread on boards that the driver could have had a sheaf of false licences on him so it was a valid question though it's more likely that the Garda simply wanted him to say something to see if he was drunk or sober.

So don't get stroppy when an official asks you a question, just give a polite answer and you'll be on your way before long.

It's not really a parallel though, more of a tangent.

A Garda stopping a motorist has more concerns than simply establishing the person's nationality. Equally, Gardai are, understandably, imbued with more powers than civilian immigration officers. I fully agree that it is easier and more sensible to answer the inquiry but it is far from mandatory as would be such a question posed by a Garda to a person in charge of a motor vehicle on a public road.

cursai

Rage against the Machine much?

Jawgap

CaraMay wrote: »

They are all cops

Actually, they're not. It used to be exclusively the role of GNIB, but that's no longer the case.

Minister Fitzgerald reviews new civilian immigration and border control arrangements at Dublin Airport

Sleeper12

moloner4 wrote:

So I was coming into Dublin with Ryanair and got to the new civilian immigration and presented my passport. She then asked where was I coming from to which I relied why was she asking. She rudely stated that she's an immigration officer and would put me into an a holding area if I didn't tell her.

From what you have said she wasn't the rude one in the conversation.

Mech1

moloner4 wrote: »

I've had family that had identify theft and fraud happen to them before for giving information out (yes involving officials). I always give minimal information because of such and hope the same won't happen to me.

moloner4 wrote: »

Lightening going off every 20 seconds on dublin bay. Got some videos on snapchat if anyone wants to see them add moloner4

OK

Pro Hoc Vice

Mech1 wrote: »

OK

Legend just legend.

vg88

Mech1 wrote: »

OK

Ok, as for a legal discussion for someone to take their time and stroll through someones post that's ok.
Taking a video of a sky on an anonymous service is different. You honestly know my face, my id, etc don't you or want to send much more time following someone?

johnnyskeleton

draiochtanois wrote: »

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

They didnt come for you though. You came to them, remember?

Carawaystick

jonnycivic wrote: »

Look i only posted a small sample of the immigration act but basically they can ask you anything they want as long as its part of their job



They are only doing their job so if you comply there will be no hassle is the jist of it all.

What if you're on an internal flight? Used to p155 me off big time queueing after coming from Cork.

If you rock in from Farranfore, What do you legally have to answer?

J Mysterio

The immigration officers are just doing their job. When you go through immigration beings asked 'where are coming from' is the most standard question you could possibly be asked. People like OP here are a massive pain in the ass to the immigration officers and all other travellers waiting to pass through.

As if telling them 'Charles De Gaulle' or whatever would somehow compromise your identity.

OP reminds me of those **** in the States who try and learn of all their rights so the can sneeringly stick ot to the cops or 'educate them'.

TheChizler

Carawaystick wrote: »

jonnycivic wrote: »

Look i only posted a small sample of the immigration act but basically they can ask you anything they want as long as its part of their job



They are only doing their job so if you comply there will be no hassle is the jist of it all.

What if you're on an internal flight? Used to p155 me off big time queueing after coming from Cork.

If you rock in from Farranfore, What do you legally have to answer?

This confuses me too. Got off a flight from the UK and the immigration officer held up the whole queue while I was fishing around for my passport which I was certain I didn't need. Said I still needed to provide proof of citizenship, which seems to contradict the legislation above.

oneweb

OP, to enhance your privacy, may I suggest you withold the detail of your departure airport next time you book a flight? Furthermore, don't show the security screening area entry person your boarding pass as that contains equally private data, or the airport shopping sales assistant, or the flight attendant when you board the plane. None of these employees hold the rank you consider appropriate to divulge such information.

You should also know that when you book a flight, your full name, departure airport, arrival airport and dates of travel are passed on to associated car rental, hotel booking and travel insurance subsites during the flight booking process to pre-fill their forms.

...and... if you use Gmail, your booking details are processed by the service - for your convenience.

Podge_irl

TheChizler wrote: »

This confuses me too. Got off a flight from the UK and the immigration officer held up the whole queue while I was fishing around for my passport which I was certain I didn't need. Said I still needed to provide proof of citizenship, which seems to contradict the legislation above.

Common Travel Area only applies to UK and Irish citizens. You have to show some form of identification, but it doesn't actually need to be your passport.

Daisy 55

For now!!

Homer

Think I'd make a fortune selling tin foil hats at airports.. Strange people

Kimbot

Lads, in airports you can have asylum seekers arrive in from anywhere (For this example lets just say the flight came in from Brussels).

So the flight lands and an immigration officer asks every person where they are after coming from, 9 times out of 10 if its someone thats looking to seek asylum they will lie and tell you they came in on a flight from lets just say Paris or something like that just to cause confusion and add to their tale. I have seen it tonnes of times and I used to work for immigration and have seen some amount of really good forgeries of irish passports. At the end of the day they are only doing a job.

Jawgap

jonnycivic wrote: »

Lads, in airports you can have asylum seekers arrive in from anywhere (For this example lets just say the flight came in from Brussels).

So the flight lands and an immigration officer asks every person where they are after coming from, 9 times out of 10 if its someone thats looking to seek asylum they will lie and tell you they came in on a flight from lets just say Paris or something like that just to cause confusion and add to their tale. I have seen it tonnes of times and I used to work for immigration and have seen some amount of really good forgeries of irish passports. At the end of the day they are only doing a job.

So?

The IO asks you where you came from and you say 'London' when you really came from somewhere else - it kind of defeats the purpose of asking the question if they don't ask you to produce a boarding card or something to show which flight you arrived on.

I fly through the airport regularly and when coming back from outside the EU , if I'm asked by Immigration or Customs where I'm coming from I just say London to avoid the hassle of being detained any longer than is necessary.

Also, the absolute ridiculousness of the arrangements at the airport are illustrated by the way checks are carried out - I've never seen an Irish IO (or Garda) properly screen a passport or the person in front of them.

AlanG

moloner4 wrote: »

This was a legal question, not what I should answer to a civilian authority. I don't like to hand out my information unless it's an a most.

So do they have legal power to detain an Irish citizen who has presented an Irish passport with no issue to the passport?

Yes they have the authority to detain you. Could you sue for wrongful detention - only if you could convince a judge that asking a simple question was unreasonable -IMO you would have no chance and as an Irish citizen you should cooperate and assist in the protection of our borders.