Should cycle lanes be demolished?

The Sidewards Man

In my opinion yes they should, most are not fit for purpose. A cyclist does not have to use it if one is present. We have a situation where 2-3 feet of lane is disused or more in some cases so doze it all and make the road wider.

MadDog1999

In my opinion this debate is a two sided blade.

The first blade is obviously yes, they should be removed. They could be removed and just make room for more available road. Plus most cycle lanes around Kerry and Cork only last for at most 500m to the very most 2km(Longest I have seen I think). So they are just a waste of time and money. Cyclists are not obliged to use them, they are as equal a road user as an motorists so have the right to use the same road as the cars though.

The second side of the blade is of course no they should not be removed. Primarily because they make cycling that but safer. Because if they are off the road for that bit more when they are on a cycle lane they have less chance of being hit by a reckless motorist. Also, they help or at least TRY to help the image motorists have on cyclists improve because when the cyclists are using cycle lanes there is less traffic disturbance. But then again I am not saying that cyclists should not be allowed use the road. They should be allowed use the what they want to use. Ya they are allowed use the cycle lanes or the roads but when we cycle on roads it often annoys motorists. The ideal world would be that every road user is equal be it on a bike or a truck. The effort to remove the cycle lanes would probably be not worth the effort in Ireland anyway. Thing about all the bother they went through in the first place to install cycle lanes. They might want to keep them there then.

This question is hard to answer which is shown above. Everyone has their different views but I personally do not care if they are kept or removed as seen from my answer. I have both opinions.

DanDublin1982

Make the road wider for what exactly?

magicbastarder

Are you referring to on road cycle lanes, off road lanes, or both?

MadDog1999

DanDublin1982 wrote:

Make the road wider for what exactly?

Ya I see what DanDublin1982 means. The roads that have cycle lanes are already usually wide enough for motor vehicles anyway. You wouldn't see cycle lanes on other roads would you?

The Sidewards Man

DanDublin1982 wrote: »

Make the road wider for what exactly?

Slow traffic lane maybe.

MadDog1999

The Sidewards Man wrote:

Slow traffic lane maybe.

I didn't think of that. The amount as 'Sunday drivers' on the roads, that would be handy

The Sidewards Man

Be handy for the silage contractors anyway.

DanDublin1982

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

Slow traffic lane maybe.

You wouldn't get an extra lane of traffic in most cycle lanes. And more to the point it's simply not needed for the most part.

I rarely use dedicated cycle lanes myself (despite suggestions from idiot motorists who think beeping at me and scaring the **** out of me is a good way to encourage me into using them) because they don't serve the purpose for me when I'm out on my bike but I see plenty of people getting great use of them so my answer to the thread question would have to be absolutely not.

beauf

Depends where you are talking about.

In some locations, in the city, where they are on the road, drivers stay out of them, giving you a much clear path to cycle on. In other places drivers ignore them. In some places they are designed so badly as to be worse than cycling on the road. So its a mixed bad. Also depends what you are doing. If I'm commuting, I want a different type of path than say cycling with the kids at the weekend, or cycling to school.

In general I prefer to keep the lanes than get rid of them. I find them useful at times. I also think they raise the profile of cycling, especially for those not used to cycling.

Perhaps you are talking about another type of lanes. Perhaps out of the city.

Billgirlylegs

If it is a serious question- Yes
Do away with them.
Cyclists belong on the road.
Take the road space. You are moving slower and should be overtaken if it is appropriate.

Cyclists are part of traffic, and defined in Road Traffic Acts.
They are not pedestrians and are a constant hazard on pavements.

Charlie19

No.

Cycle lanes encourage nervous cyclists and anything that gets people out on their bikes is a good thing.

ED E

Should we also abolish traffic lights? Speed signs? Road markings altogether?

The problem isn't the lanes (except for the retarded ones, thanks DLRCOCO/DCC planning), its enforcement. Gardai should keep them clear and enforce FCPNs for anyone breaching a solid one. And street sweepers and councils need to clear them, but that can't be done when they're parking spaces as per A above.

They should all also be 24hrs. Having it 1900-0700 and 1000-1200 as them not existing and magically existing in the gaps just trains drivers to ignore them and cyclists don't magically disappear at lunchtime or 19:01.

KingBrian2

The city is becoming more dangerous not less Cycling lanes and pedestrianizing are ways of keeping the road safe as is the new speed limit that has been introduced. All sensible road users know this.

Atlantic Dawn

The planners in this country have not got a clue, if they spent 5 hours playing Sim City they would get more sense of how to run an actual city.

Leroy42

Billgirlylegs wrote: »

They are not pedestrians and are a constant hazard on pavements.

Really? A constant hazard? Where do you live that pedestrians walk about with fear of these mauranding cyclists? The vast majority of cyclists use the road and/or off road cycle lanes.

saccades

Only the rubbish ones, arklow has 2 roundabouts near very each other.

One way there is a cycle lane that by-passes the 2nd roundabout but spits you into a side road :facepalm: where you have to give way (no-one uses it and it's covered in glass/debris) even if you ignore that bit there isn't an easy filter back into the main road.

Going the other way the cycle lane disappears just when you need it as you approach the roundabout, so there is a pinch point for bikes and cars.

These are two roundabouts that were redesigned and purpose built 5-6 years ago but actually cause more confusion and potential trouble than if they had been designed with just cars in mind.

Sligo1

Leroy42 wrote: »

Really? A constant hazard? Where do you live that pedestrians walk about with fear of these mauranding cyclists? The vast majority of cyclists use the road and/or off road cycle lanes.

Goatstown Road/Mt Anville Road in Dublin. Absolute twats of cyclists constantly using footpath. Nearly been mowed down two or three times coming around a corner with a buggy. I wish cyclists would stay off the footpath (unless they are young children).

Montpelier Hill

Some of the more recent cycle lanes have been built to a good standard - Churchtown road, Dublin and Blackrock bypass cycle paths for example, but unfortunately these are the exeption. I'd still use some of the badly designed paths depending on how safe it is to cycle on the road. For example, I'd cycle on the n11 cycle path and put up with the poor layouts, bad surface and the conflicts with pedestrians, only because I don't want buses whizzing by me where there's no space.

Carawaystick

Montpelier Hill wrote: »

I'd cycle on the n11 cycle path and put up with the poor layouts, bad surface and the conflicts with pedestrians, only because I don't want buses whizzing by me where there's no space.

There's 3 traffic lanes, let the busses pass you in a general traffic lane or wait. Cycle in the middle of the bus lane to prevent busses squeezing past

magicbastarder

I think the worst cycle lane I know of is the one up through drumcondra - it takes you behind parked cars, probably ten foot from the road and them dumps you back on the road right into the path of traffic turning left onto Griffith avenue. It's wilful in its idiocy.

ted1

Billgirlylegs wrote: »

They are not pedestrians and are a constant hazard on pavements.

It's a two way thing I ran over some girls toes and hit until her when she jumped off the path at the red man into the road and into oncoming traffic , I was turning off Dawson street at the Shelbourne. Could have been a lot worse, I was pedestrians would stop jay walking into the road

eeeee

Montpelier Hill wrote: »

Some of the more recent cycle lanes have been built to a good standard - Churchtown road, Dublin and Blackrock bypass cycle paths for example, but unfortunately these are the exeption.

I disagree with this with regards to Blackrock. The new cycle lanes are grand until you get to temple hill, where you have to stop and wait for a light to continue straight ahead, and the lanes themselves are full of shyte too. They're also shared with the footpath and unmarked to/from newtownpark avenue, with difficulties with pedestrians. Also going towards town, it leaves you directly into the bus, I've had this happen to me when a bus stops right slap bang in front of you cos you're of the road they don't see you until then. It's a brand new cycle lane and they still fcuked it up.

For me, until they can design cycle paths properly, either nothing or a line on the road are the only options that work vaguely well, but neither of these options are good for nervous or very young cyclists.

monument

No they should be improved. Like the Churchtown route already mentioned which has gone from one of the worst to one of the best: http://irishcycle.com/2014/04/27/preview-churchtown-cycle-route-not-a-million-miles-from-perfection/

Footpaths are a bit of a state in many places and cars park on them... Should we remove them?

Tenzor07

Intresting article in the Sindo,

So for the foreseeable future, it seems I will be continuing to eschew the heart attack in a cycle that is the north quays in favour of my own slightly circuitous, mildly illegal and rant-inducing route on my Dublin Bike across the north inner city. And until the city's urban planners are able to match the Government's enthusiasm for getting the casual (read clueless) cyclist onto the road with safe cycle routes, I suspect I won't be alone.
My dreams of spinning around town on my very own bike, one that looks like it was wheeled off the set of 'The Quiet Man', will remain on hold. But if you see me whizzing by you on the footpath, or careering towards you down a one-way street, I will take your rant on the chin.

www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/cycling-to-work-still-means-taking-your-life-in-your-hands-34795011.html

Fian

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Intresting article in the Sindo,





www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/cycling-to-work-still-means-taking-your-life-in-your-hands-34795011.html

Honestly, this looks like anti cyclist propaganda to me. Feels like a sock puppet is couching unreasonable expectations (cycling on footpaths especially) in a tone that seems to be genuinely oblivious to how unreasonable it is.

Like the Sindo want to provoke anti cyclist irritation and ranting in the comment boxes, but of course that could never be true of the Sindo.

Lumen

Fian wrote: »

Honestly, this looks like anti cyclist propaganda to me. Feels like a sock puppet is couching unreasonable expectations (cycling on footpaths especially) in a tone that seems to be genuinely oblivious to how unreasonable it is.

Like the Sindo want to provoke anti cyclist irritation and ranting in the comment boxes, but of course that could never be true of the Sindo.

I think you're crediting them with much more intent that their intelligence can support.

crosstownk

magicbastarder wrote: »

I think the worst cycle lane I know of is the one up through drumcondra - it takes you behind parked cars, probably ten foot from the road and them dumps you back on the road right into the path of traffic turning left onto Griffith avenue. It's wilful in its idiocy.

I totally agree. I pass through Drumcondra on my commute and have never used that cycle lane. It's full of peds, joggers, school children, dog walkers with those extendable leads, etc, etc. Then just after the Griffith Ave. junction, the cycle lane that starts at Home Farm FC and on to Whitehall isn't much better. It's a painted white line on the path that appears and disappears. The surface is crap. I do use it though as I've had many close calls with busses and taxis while on the road in the bus lane.

I do agree that some more recent designs are an improvement - the Churchtown, as mentioned, comes to mind.

The cycle lanes out by Dublin Airport are fairly recent and the surface is brilliant but the design at the junctions is far from ideal so I mainly use the bus lane much to the irritation of Dublin Coach and the car rental shuttles. Otherwise I may have to stop and wait at multiple pedestrian/cyclist crossings. Why couldn't the cycle lane have been incorporated into a wider bus lane - similar to the design in Drumcondra at St. Patricks College?

A pic of one of the airport junctions (image was taken during the upgrade works). The red line indicates the route a cyclist would have to take if using the cycle lane.

tomasrojo

"Demolish" seems too active a verb. Many of the cycle lanes in Ireland could be removed with a tin of Nitromors.

(I'm leaning these days towards improving, on the whole. "Improving" is too inactive a verb. Wholesale re-think and redesign required mostly.)

schemingbohemia

nee wrote: »

I disagree with this with regards to Blackrock. The new cycle lanes are grand until you get to temple hill, where you have to stop and wait for a light to continue straight ahead, and the lanes themselves are full of shyte too. They're also shared with the footpath and unmarked to/from newtownpark avenue, with difficulties with pedestrians. Also going towards town, it leaves you directly into the bus, I've had this happen to me when a bus stops right slap bang in front of you cos you're of the road they don't see you until then. It's a brand new cycle lane and they still fcuked it up.

For me, until they can design cycle paths properly, either nothing or a line on the road are the only options that work vaguely well, but neither of these options are good for nervous or very young cyclists.

The junction at Temple Hill is safe which the previous junction wasn't in my opinion. It's a bit of a pain having to stop but there was a traffic light before anyway which would have meant stopping anyway sometimes.

Haven't found the paths "full of shyte" either, the very odd squashed can but that's about it.

I'd be interested in hearing your solution for the section at Frascati heading northbound where buses and cars cross (the latter for the shopping centre car park and the former for the bus stop) the cycle track. Can't see a better solution myself and I certainly haven't had buses not seeing me there.

eeeee

schemingbohemia wrote: »

The junction at Temple Hill is safe which the previous junction wasn't in my opinion. It's a bit of a pain having to stop but there was a traffic light before anyway which would have meant stopping anyway sometimes.

Haven't found the paths "full of shyte" either, the very odd squashed can but that's about it.

I'd be interested in hearing your solution for the section at Frascati heading northbound where buses and cars cross (the latter for the shopping centre car park and the former for the bus stop) the cycle track. Can't see a better solution myself and I certainly haven't had buses not seeing me there.

Totally disagree with you on the Temple Hill junction, yuo should be able to go straight ahead or turn left as traffic. As it is you have to wait for the traffic lights to stop, then the pedestrian, then the cyclist lights go, to continue on going the way you were going anyway very, very poor anti cycling design IMO. I think they would be been better served by putting in something like what they have done at the mount merrion junction, a couple of bollards to stop left turning cars turning across you, and an on road cycle path so you're in the same space and therefore conscious of the vehicular traffic. I didn't find the previous design dangerous at all.
There is a small path worn in the debris strewn on the path on both sides, they have never been cleaned to my notice and I am on those cycle lanes every day.

I don't find the Frascati junction in any way problematic, if there's a bus at the stop I go around the outside of it, and have never been squeezed or crossed there *touches wood* although admittedly I may have just been lucky so far. There is certainly the potential for it. Again I think the bollards for Mount Merrion junction could be employed there again, just to make traffic more considerate maybe? They appeared very suddenly when I encountered them the first couple of times but I'm used to them now and see the benefit of them everytime there's traffic turning left beside me. They did **** up by inexplicably putting the left turning cycle lane off the road inside the regular lane thus spitting you out onto left turning traffic. I don't use that cycle lane at all.

I think the above highlights how they just fundamentally don't seem to understand how cyclists move through the streets when putting in specific infrastructure. They need cyclist intervention in the design phase!

Roadhawk

Not singling out any one particular area I think cycle lanes in general are a great concept for traffic when they are used. So many cycle lanes both new and old go un-used because it is more convenient for a cyclist to use the general traffic lane. From what I gather from the general chatter on boards about cycle lanes the majority are complaining about poor route layouts, poor infrastructure and poor maintenance... I can’t help but to feel that the expectations for these cycle tracks are beyond reality. Regarding layouts, the vast majority of roads with bicycle traffic have cycle lanes. Some new with bi-directional tracks. Like all other roads for motorists. The road is built and you choose your route according to the road. My understanding is that those complaining about whether the route goes “this way or that way” are just being pedantic because ultimately if you are on a bike you are skipping motorist traffic and are getting to the same destination give or take 5 mins anyway. The infrastructure has evolved quite a bit over time…many lanes are now bi-directional and segregated and some junctions have cycling specific traffic lights. City planners have gone through great lengths to continuously improve the level of safety for the cyclists. As result Dublin is now one of the safest cities in Europe to cycle. Addressing the maintenance I can clearly say that some of the cycle lanes around Dublin are completely unusable to the like of a daily commuter. Being realistic, if the laws were not changed by Leo Varadkar in 2012 to allow cyclists use the general roads even where a cycle lane is present, then the current cycle network would have to be maintained better than it is to sustain the traffic on them. It looks like the government got a good deal financially here.

For the current estimated 11,000 daily bicycle users the existing infrastructure is sufficient in my opinion.

In my view there should be an ultimatum were either no more cycle lanes are built and existing one removed for better road space for all road users or the cycle network is expanded exponentially but cyclists have no choice other than to use the lane where provided.

magicbastarder

because of course, when cycle lanes were compulsory, they were an absolute model of intelligently designed infrastructure.

I can’t help but to feel that the expectations for these cycle tracks are beyond reality.

when your expectations are that cycle tracks should make cycling safer rather than more dangerous, yes, those expectations are beyond reality.

Tenzor07

Roadhawk wrote: »

So many cycle lanes both new and old go un-used because it is more convenient for a cyclist to use the general traffic lane. .

You are so right! :rolleyes:

2RockMountain

Tenzor07 wrote: »

You are so right! :rolleyes:

Lots more where that came from;

https://twitter.com/hashtag/FreetheCycleLanes?src=hash

jive

Tenzor07 wrote: »

You are so right! :rolleyes:

Not trying to be smart but the opinions that cycle lanes should be used at all times are from people who don't cycle in them, or they cycle in some of the very few decent stretches of cycling lanes available.

Anyone who cycles regularly in Dublin knows:
1) How bad the cycling infrastructure is and
2) How dangerous it genuinely is due to point #1

It's not even a matter of upkeep or debris in cycle lanes in the majority of cases, it's just dimwitted planning or lanes painted onto roads as an after-thought.

The poor infrastructure is hampering the uptake of cycling as a commuting option for many. Doing away with cycle lanes altogether will do nothing to assist that no matter how laughable they may be at the minute; the answer is to improve not to do away with it altogether because it is so bad presently.

Fian

Roadhawk wrote: »

So many cycle lanes both new and old go un-used because it is more convenient for a cyclist to use the general traffic lane. ..........

I can’t help but to feel that the expectations for these cycle tracks are beyond reality. .

My own expectation for using a cycle lane is that it be a preferable/safer/more pleasant option for me than using the road. Otherwise I will (and do) use the road. If they provide a cycle lane with a yield sign for every minor road coming on to the road, or even for individual driveways,then yeah I will continue to take the option of using the road and having the right of way. That is entirely predictable and rational.

In the same way I wouldn't use a motorway that took a ridiculous winding or circuitous route to get from A to B such that I would be better off driving on the ordinary roads to make the same journey. Say if the motorway from Dublin to Galway went via Sligo, I would use the old Dublin/Galway road instead. Basically i would use the route that was most convenient for me.

If that were the way motorway infrastructure were provided would you blame the motorists for not using the motorways or the NRA for putting in the infrastructure badly?

Roadhawk

2RockMountain wrote: »

Lots more where that came from;

https://twitter.com/hashtag/FreetheCycleLanes?src=hash

i do think that the Gardai should enforce the law of no parking in a cycle lane. there is no excuse not to but many of the picture in that link are exactly what i mean when i mention the expectations. the first picture is a puddle in a lane...i can understand if there is a flood or if the lane is unassailable but a puddle? come on.

KingBrian2

The good aspect about cycling lanes is that they are far less bumpy than non cycling lanes in parts of the city. Though not all the lanes are in the same level of good condition. It can be a nightmare of some of cycling lanes. Does your front wheel right in.

Gator88

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

In my opinion yes they should, most are not fit for purpose. A cyclist does not have to use it if one is present. We have a situation where 2-3 feet of lane is disused or more in some cases so doze it all and make the road wider.

We have them so we can report to Brussels how many thousands of kilometres of cycle lanes we have. Unfortunately Brussels doesn't seem interested in the quality

ted1

Roadhawk wrote: »

Not singling out any one particular area I think cycle lanes in general are a great concept for traffic when they are used. So many cycle lanes both new and old go un-used because it is more convenient for a cyclist to use the general traffic lane. From what I gather from the general chatter on boards about cycle lanes the majority are complaining about poor route layouts, poor infrastructure and poor maintenance... I can’t help but to feel that the expectations for these cycle tracks are beyond reality. Regarding layouts, the vast majority of roads with bicycle traffic have cycle lanes. Some new with bi-directional tracks. Like all other roads for motorists. The road is built and you choose your route according to the road. My understanding is that those complaining about whether the route goes “this way or that way” are just being pedantic because ultimately if you are on a bike you are skipping motorist traffic and are getting to the same destination give or take 5 mins anyway. The infrastructure has evolved quite a bit over time…many lanes are now bi-directional and segregated and some junctions have cycling specific traffic lights. City planners have gone through great lengths to continuously improve the level of safety for the cyclists. As result Dublin is now one of the safest cities in Europe to cycle. Addressing the maintenance I can clearly say that some of the cycle lanes around Dublin are completely unusable to the like of a daily commuter. Being realistic, if the laws were not changed by Leo Varadkar in 2012 to allow cyclists use the general roads even where a cycle lane is present, then the current cycle network would have to be maintained better than it is to sustain the traffic on them. It looks like the government got a good deal financially here.

For the current estimated 11,000 daily bicycle users the existing infrastructure is sufficient in my opinion.

In my view there should be an ultimatum were either no more cycle lanes are built and existing one removed for better road space for all road users or the cycle network is expanded exponentially but cyclists have no choice other than to use the lane where provided.

You have it all wrong and clearly don't cycle, they are not used because they are dangerous and or in poor condition.
Try cycling and you'll change your opinion.

Tenzor07

jive wrote: »

Not trying to be smart but the opinions that cycle lanes should be used at all times are from people who don't cycle in them,.

Sarcasm detector not working?

2RockMountain

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The good aspect about cycling lanes is that they are far less bumpy than non cycling lanes in parts of the city. Though not all the lanes are in the same level of good condition. It can be a nightmare of some of cycling lanes. Does your front wheel right in.

Yes, the red tarmac seems to peel off more easily than standard tarmac. A lot of the lanes around Grange Road and Stonemasons Way are in poor surface condition, so I stay well out in the road.

Roadhawk wrote: »

i do think that the Gardai should enforce the law of no parking in a cycle lane. there is no excuse not to but many of the picture in that link are exactly what i mean when i mention the expectations. the first picture is a puddle in a lane...i can understand if there is a flood or if the lane is unassailable but a puddle? come on.

Expectations? The only expectation is of the lane being fit for purpose, so cyclists can cycle. If the picture of the flood/puddle offends you, have a look at the Twitter search link again now and you'll see it's been moved down the page, replaced with this evening's collection of blocked cycle lanes.

monument

Roadhawk wrote: »

Not singling out any one particular area I think cycle lanes in general are a great concept for traffic when they are used. So many cycle lanes both new and old go un-used because it is more convenient for a cyclist to use the general traffic lane. From what I gather from the general chatter on boards

From what I gather you're obsessed with cycling and it's not general chatter, you're reading a lot... but it's funny you get selective things so wrong...

Roadhawk wrote: »

For the current estimated 11,000 daily bicycle users the existing infrastructure is sufficient in my opinion.

There's far more than 11k cyclists on Dublin city centre streets and roads, before we talk about the rest of Dublin. The 11k figure is just those crossing the canal cordon between a few hours, it does not count many trips which do not cross that line or the many DublinBikes and other cycling trips inside it.

And the trend is more and more cyclists despite the not very attractive conditions -- imagine if Dublin followed London, where there has been a ~60% increase in cycling in a very short time on routes where high-quality segregation was added.

But, at the end of the day, the current figure do not matter as much as you're trying to claim, because the policy is to increase cycling, not just to look after those currently cycling.

Roadhawk wrote: »

In my view there should be an ultimatum were either no more cycle lanes are built and existing one removed for better road space for all road users or the cycle network is expanded exponentially but cyclists have no choice other than to use the lane where provided.

Or, you know, we could just build half decent cycling infrastructure and the vast bulk of people would just use it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfWrd9rrmaI

ted1

2RockMountain wrote: »

Yes, the red tarmac seems to peel off more easily than standard tarmac. A lot of the lanes around Grange Road and Stonemasons Way are in poor surface condition, so I stay well out in the road.



Expectations? The only expectation is of the lane being fit for purpose, so cyclists can cycle. If the picture of the flood/puddle offends you, have a look at the Twitter search link again now and you'll see it's been moved down the page, replaced with this evening's collection of blocked cycle lanes.

I suspect that the red Tarmac is not laid as per manufacturers guideline and is put done by a tool that is to light as opposed to a heavy roller

monument

Roadhawk wrote: »

i do think that the Gardai should enforce the law of no parking in a cycle lane. there is no excuse not to but many of the picture in that link are exactly what i mean when i mention the expectations. the first picture is a puddle in a lane...i can understand if there is a flood or if the lane is unassailable but a puddle? come on.

How do you know what's under the puddle? On cycle lanes near me the drain was never raised after new layers of surfacing were put down and when there's "puddles" you can't see that cycling into it would damage your wheel and/or knock you off your bike and possibly into a truck or car passing by.

galwaycyclist

ted1 wrote: »

I suspect that the red Tarmac is not laid as per manufacturers guideline and is put done by a tool that is to light as opposed to a heavy roller

In other countries the red tarmac is red tarmac. So the final surface layer or "wearing course" has a different colour to the other layer but it is all the same material.

In Ireland they tend to apply a red coloured slurry on top of the "final" surface layer afterwards rather than constructing the road properly.

galwaycyclist

monument wrote: »

How do you know what's under the puddle? On cycle lanes near me the drain was never raised after new layers of surfacing were put down and when there's "puddles" you can't see that cycling into it would damage your wheel and/or knock you off your bike and possibly into a truck or car passing by.

I seem to recall breaking a front axle once while cycling through a "puddle".

sdanseo

Cycle lanes are provided sporadically, and that's the problem. You need a continuous stretch of a few km on major arteries for people to use them and we simply don't have many stretches like that which are of acceptable quality without interruption by stupid obstacles or badly junctions.

Add roundabouts into this equation and you have a recipe for under-use.

Our streets - certainly the major routes in and out of cities - need a root and branch redesign to adequately provide for everyone. One good investment of a billion euro and six months of disruption and you could re-surface and re-layout almost all of them. Unfortunately that would be a bold, progressive move. We don't do that here.

OneOfThem Stumbled

Billgirlylegs wrote: »

Do away with them.
Cyclists belong on the road.
Take the road space. You are moving slower and should be overtaken if it is appropriate.

You actually show the reason why it's a bad idea immediately after suggesting you do away with them. Skateboarders, rollerbladers, and motorised shopping carts are typically as fast as bicycles in urban environments, and just as vulnerable. Unlike those other modes of transport, bicycles are actually practical for commuting, and so we go with the unideal situation of bicycles being on the road.

I mean bicycles are the only mode of transport allowed on the roads that aren't allowed on motorways - and it is for a good reason!

This is speaking both as someone who cycles and drives. Cyclists are a menace to drivers: difficult to overtake and have to be carefully watched, and are nowhere near as fast to keep up with the flow of traffic in normal situations.

OneOfThem Stumbled

Montpelier Hill wrote: »

Some of the more recent cycle lanes have been built to a good standard - Churchtown road, Dublin and Blackrock bypass cycle paths for example, but unfortunately these are the exeption. I'd still use some of the badly designed paths depending on how safe it is to cycle on the road. For example, I'd cycle on the n11 cycle path and put up with the poor layouts, bad surface and the conflicts with pedestrians, only because I don't want buses whizzing by me where there's no space.

Unfortunately the one in Blackrock was only introduced after a cyclist was crushed to death by a truck at an intersection along the bypass.