Residents Association no address

jenny smith

I was visiting a friend who lives in an estate. A flyer was delivered in the door from the residents Association seeking payment. There was no address on it and no letterhead. Just a mobile number to call.

I know such associations have no legal standing but can they request money without giving an address? My friend know of their existence but not where any of them live in the estate

goz83

Of course they can request it. Your friend can also refuse it, whether there is an address, or not.

wokingvoter

goz83 wrote: »

Of course they can request it. Your friend can also refuse it, whether there is an address, or not.

He can refuse it. So can everybody else. Then he can watch his surroundings turn into a filthy kip.
Good idea.

jenny smith

can we stay on topic asking for money without address

Wanderer78

ring the number, see what the craic is, failing that, wait till somebody comes a knocking! wouldnt pass any money over till i get chatting face to face with somebody

bisounours

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ring the number, see what the craic is, failing that, wait till somebody comes a knocking! wouldnt pass any money over till i get chatting face to face with somebody

At a minimum - who is this person you're calling, detailed use of funds, proof this is legitimate. Otherwise, what's to stop anyone from printing out flyers and getting money off people into their own accounts ?

g6fdyotp5nj2l7

Another person that thinks the elves appear at night to cut the grass and generally keep the place looking well. Tell your 'friend' to pay up and make it cheaper for everyone.
What are you afraid of that they'll head off to the pub with your money

wokingvoter

jenny smith wrote: »

can we stay on topic asking for money without address

Ok sorry. Mostly the reason why residents committee members don't give their house number is because some residents think that it's in order to call to committee members houses at any time with any random complaint
I know because my husband spent one stressful year as Chairman
Complaints included regarding the early morning noise of the bin lorry and not liking the type of bedding plants in the communal beds despite never having been at a monthly meeting
Ring the number. I'm sure whoever it is will be in a position to prove sho they are.

bisounours

I have no issue paying money where it is due. I do have an issue with a flyer, with no contact name, address, letterhead or other legal identifiers purporting to be a member of the residents' association looking for funds. How do I know it's not the clever kid down the street just looking for money and a few weeks/months later you actually DO have the residents' association asking for money. What do you say? Well, I called this mobile phone number and gave them the cash for it?

g6fdyotp5nj2l7

bisounours wrote:

I have no issue paying money where it is due. I do have an issue with a flyer, with no contact name, address, letterhead or other legal identifiers purporting to be a member of the residents' association looking for funds. How do I know it's not the clever kid down the street just looking for money and a few weeks/months later you actually DO have the residents' association asking for money. What do you say? Well, I called this mobile phone number and gave them the cash for it?

Ah come on ring the number then you'll know. Maybe join up and give them a hand

anewme

Where were they asking you to pay the money to?

Is there a residents association In the estate or was this flyer completely out of the blue. Sorry updated - see you are saying they do have a Residents Association.


Like some other people here, I also did a stint on the residents association and have come across the likes of
Next doors dog did a poo on the green
The child up the road kicked the ball into my garden
Someone's child hit someone elses
A brick fell off my wall so the residents association should sort that
The oulone next door gave out to my kids
The council should cut the grass so you should get onto joe Duffy if they don't
To name but a few

Thankless task.

I suppose your friend has two choices...
Ring the number to ascertain if it is legit and not someone purporting to be the residents association or do nothing and ignore it and let others pay( if it is legit)

One thing to understand about these residents associations are that they are usually not a business rather than people doing their bit for the estate as well as their day jobs.

There's no laws or rules with regards to these type of things, it's usually run by volunteers.

We used to put house numbers on it however....along the lines of
DRop into the following...with a list of house numbers including details of the chairman and secretary so you could see it was legit.

If your friend has an issue with the lack of address maybe she could make this suggestion and join herself and use her address! The Residents Association will welcome a new volunteer for defo!

bisounours

Our management company issues a letter in the beginning of every year, with a clear description of where last year's funds went, current sinking funds, what this year's projection is and their plans. The figures are signed off by a known auditing company, and I'd say most of the building pays within the week we get the letter. Being clear about what the funds are for and what future plans are will give the residents that sense of home pride - not a mobile phone number saying "call me"

anewme

my friend lives in an estate with a professional management company ( made join by the house contract). Cost in the region of 1200 per year per house. You had no choice to pay. It was part if your contract. The management company went wallop and some ppl could not sell their houses.

Our residents association costs one hundred euro per house to keep the grass cut and flower beds etc.
Now as it costs 100 per house, there's not enough money to pay for Auditing fees etc, any left over money over the grasses, flowers goes on a family day.

There's no fancy accounts, just income and expenditure and all bills are available to see.

I know which one I'd rather have.

Paulw

bisounours wrote: »

Our management company issues a letter in the beginning of every year, with a clear description of where last year's funds went, current sinking funds, what this year's projection is and their plans.

A management company is a legal entity which fees must be paid to, as per the contract.

A resident's association is a group of people who want to do things together. It has no legal basis and there is no obligation on anyone to contribute.

Two very very different things.

bisounours

anewme wrote: »

my friend lives in an estate with a professional management company ( made join by the house contract). Cost in the region of 1200 per year per house. You had no choice to pay. It was part if your contract. The management company went wallop and some ppl could not sell their houses.

Our residents association costs one hundred euro per house to keep the grass cut and flower beds etc.
Now as it costs 100 per house, there's not enough money to pay for Auditing fees etc, any left over money over the grasses, flowers goes on a family day.

There's no fancy accounts, just income and expenditure and all bills are available to see.

I know which one I'd rather have.

I'd have no problems with that either as long as I know to whom the money is going, what the funds are being spent on and if I ever wanted to review them the books and receipts were available. I am simply saying I would not be comfortable not knowing who is doing what, if anything, with the money I am paying them.

As an aside, have you ever thought about "community"services, such as a car wash drive and getting teenagers on the estate to wash cars for a 10, they keep 5, and the other fiver goes to the association?

goz83

wokingvoter wrote: »

He can refuse it. So can everybody else. Then he can watch his surroundings turn into a filthy kip.
Good idea.

OP asked a legal question. I answered it. The consequences of the estate, or what one "should do" were not part of the question. This is the legal forum. You might keep that in mind when responding to posts in this forum.

Back on topic. The residents association can ask for annual fees....they can even ask for weekly fees, or pass the money jar at the local football game, but there is no requirement to pay anything. The choice is up to each individual.

L1011

bisounours wrote: »

As an aside, have you ever thought about "community"services, such as a car wash drive and getting teenagers on the estate to wash cars for a 10, they keep 5, and the other fiver goes to the association?

Pl insurance nightmare. If the RA has it it wouldn't cover that

Mrs OBumble

bisounours wrote: »

Otherwise, what's to stop anyone from printing out flyers and getting money off people into their own accounts ?

Nothing.

As I understand it, unless "anyone" claims that it is for charitable purposes, it's quite legal to ask for money without giving an address etc.

With residents associations, yes, there is always a risk that it's a scam or the money will be mis-appropriated. But it's a low risk, given the amount of cash involved. Most people are willing to take the risk, because the alternative of a legally constituted association with an operating address etc is just too expensive.

CramCycle

anewme wrote: »

Our residents association costs one hundred euro per house to keep the grass cut and flower beds etc.
Now as it costs 100 per house, there's not enough money to pay for Auditing fees etc, any left over money over the grasses, flowers goes on a family day.

There's no fancy accounts, just income and expenditure and all bills are available to see.

ours is only 20euro per year

L1011 wrote: »

Pl insurance nightmare. If the RA has it it wouldn't cover that

We have an RA specific policy. Costs a bit but it covers all events we notify them off including a football tournament, BBQ, Santa Clause visit, gardening committee, clean up day, protecting committee members form claims, and a few other things.

It's worthwhile and an important part of any community or estate. We get face time with the council, reps on different council meetings and generally issues through the committee are treated as if they had the backing of everyone in the community so the council pay more attention.

It costs alot to run but it is an important part of the community and if it ever left I can see the place falling apart quite quickly.

NUTLEY BOY

I think that the answer to OP is that there is nothing requiring an address to appear on a residents' association written communication.

Many of the traditional residents' associations are unincorporated associations. In practice, they are just like many sports clubs. Ergo, they are probably not subject to the requirements of limited liability companies or their like.

Given the world in which we live I would be careful about dealing with any entity which does identify itself adequately where I am being asked for money.

g6fdyotp5nj2l7

I presume we're talking about a few quid here to keep the grass cut and the place generally kept looking tidy.
Why should a simple thing like this be strangled by legalities there's too much yellow tape as it is that's why it takes so long to get anything done.
I don't know why the OP is posting here to be honest. He has two choices ignore the notice and leave others pay or ring the number and donate.
It comes across as how dare anybody put a flyer in his letterbox asking for a donation to keep the estate nice.
Maybe I'm reading it wrong if I am apologies

jenny smith

Tyler Billions Technology wrote: »

I presume we're talking about a few quid here to keep the grass cut and the place generally kept looking tidy.
Why should a simple thing like this be strangled by legalities there's too much yellow tape as it is that's why it takes so long to get anything done.
I don't know why the OP is posting here to be honest. He has two choices ignore the notice and leave others pay or ring the number and donate.
It comes across as how dare anybody put a flyer in his letterbox asking for a donation to keep the estate nice.
Maybe I'm reading it wrong if I am apologies

you are reading it wrong and your putting in quotes in your other post means your future input will be ignored. judge someone else. you did not even read it properly

jenny smith

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

I think that the answer to OP is that there is nothing requiring an address to appear on a residents' association written communication.

Many of the traditional residents' associations are unincorporated associations. In practice, they are just like many sports clubs. Ergo, they are probably not subject to the requirements of limited liability companies or their like.

Given the world in which we live I would be careful about dealing with any entity which does identify itself adequately where I am being asked for money.

that was the point there is no way to know what happens to any money in sucha situation

g6fdyotp5nj2l7

jenny smith wrote:

you are reading it wrong and your putting in quotes in your other post means your future input will be ignored. judge someone else. you did not even read it properly

I think I read it properly you're response proves that. Funny enough a few months back a similar question turned up here and when that poster got answers he didn't like he threw the toys out of the pram too.

g6fdyotp5nj2l7

jenny smith wrote:

that was the point there is no way to know what happens to any money in sucha situation

Get involved then you'll know exactly what happens the money.

Meauldsegosha

jenny smith wrote: »

that was the point there is no way to know what happens to any money in sucha situation

Has your friend asked to see a copy of the accounts? Has (s)he rang the number on the flyer and spoken to whoever answers. The accounts for my residents Assoc are available t the AGM dot anyone to see and any residents can go to the monthly meeting to ask questions.

g6fdyotp5nj2l7

Meauldsegosha wrote:

Has your friend asked to see a copy of the accounts? Has (s)he rang the number on the flyer and spoken to whoever answers. The accounts for my residents Assoc are available t the AGM dot anyone to see and any residents can go to the monthly meeting to ask questions.

Thats exactly what to do go to the meetings, go to the AGM call the number on the flyer.
Unfortunately there are a few like this in nearly all estates who just leave the work and the paying to others which makes it more expensive for everyone.
But luckily enough in my experience the majority put their shoulder and wallet to the wheel

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

markpb

anewme wrote: »

my friend lives in an estate with a professional management company ( made join by the house contract). Cost in the region of 1200 per year per house. [...]

Our residents association costs one hundred euro per house to keep the grass cut and flower beds etc.

I know which one I'd rather have.

I'd wager that the 1,200 goes to the management company of an apartment block where there is vastly more responsibility than cutting the grass outside a few houses. The MC I was part of was responsible for public liability insurance, structural insurance, a clean water supply (because of the booster tanks), pumps to remove surface rainwater, all roads and underground car parks inside the estate, all streetlights above and underground, keeping the swale clear to prevent flooding, maintenance of fire alarm systems and a whole host of other things. Comparing that to grass cutting and planting flowers in the spring is daft.

anewme

markpb wrote: »

I'd wager that the 1,200 goes to the management company of an apartment block where there is vastly more responsibility than cutting the grass outside a few houses. The MC I was part of was responsible for public liability insurance, structural insurance, a clean water supply (because of the booster tanks), pumps to remove surface rainwater, all roads and underground car parks inside the estate, all streetlights above and underground, keeping the swale clear to prevent flooding, maintenance of fire alarm systems and a whole host of other things. Comparing that to grass cutting and planting flowers in the spring is daft.

I'm not comparing it, that's the whole issue. We don't need a management company. I'd rather not live in an estate with a management company and have to pay up to 2k a year. Give me a house and a local residents association with grass and plants and community events any day. I don't need an underground car oark as I have my driveway. I'll shop around myself for my insurance rather than take what's given and if I don't pay then it's down to me, I'm not locked into a contract.

Management companies especially those set up by builders have been a nightmare in the Celtic tiger collapse with people not being able to sell their properties because many dissolved.

I'd rather buy my own house in an estate with an opt in residents association than be locked into a legal contract with a management company any day. That's my point. I'm not saying th management company are not doing any work, but I'd rather live somewhere without the need for it

i would also take that into account if moving house.

g6fdyotp5nj2l7

Did Jenny pay his way I wonder

Robbo

Folks, the tone of some of the replies is a little less than helpful.

Keep it civil or there'll be further actions taken.

Graham

Tyler Billions Technology wrote: »

Did Jenny pay his way I wonder

According to the OP, he/she was only visiting the estate in question. Unless the residents association has also decided they're going to tax visitors to the estate then I would suspect no.