Average speed cameras to be installed in Dublin Port Tunnel

marno21

Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII) & An Garda Síochána Announce Average Speed Cameras Installation in the Dublin Tunnel

TII are working with An Garda Síochána on the installation of Ireland’s first average speed camera enforcement system.

Chief Superintendent Aidan Reid, Garda National Traffic Bureau said, “We welcome this enhancement to the operations of the Dublin Port Tunnel. Due to an increase in traffic travelling through Dublin Port Tunnel this new enforcement system provides additional support toward maintaining a safe travel experience for all users of the Tunnel.”

Michael Nolan CEO TII said, “An average speed camera enforcement system will assist in maintaining the Dublin Port Tunnel’s strong safety record. TII is grateful to An Garda Síochána for supporting us with this operational improvement.”

Traffic levels through Dublin Port Tunnel have increased by 40% over the last 5 years and as a result there is statistically, an increase in the potential for collisions and accidents. Average speed camera enforcement systems look to mitigate this potential because statistics show that there is typically a 50% reduction in the collision rate once in operation.
The average speed camera enforcement system monitors a driver’s average speed while driving through the Dublin Port Tunnel and if a driver is above the 80 km/h speed limit the driver will be in violation and enforcement penalties will apply.
Once the average speed camera enforcement system determines that a vehicle has exceeded the speed limit, it will automatically create a record of the violation which will then be transmitted to An Garda Síochána for their action. The enforcement procedure will mirror the existing procedures developed by An Garda Síochána for automated processing of Road Traffic Offences that incur fixed charges and if applicable penalty points.
All drivers using the Dublin Port Tunnel should notice large yellow poles with cameras being installed tomorrow. These poles will support the average speed camera enforcement system. Once the cameras are mounted testing will commence. Upon completion of system testing it is anticipated that the system will go live later this year.
Average speed is recorded between two camera positions covering all lanes therefore switching lanes will have no effect on average speed monitoring. The system will not have flashing lights or other operational indications, but it will be monitoring at all times.
Additional Background

Dublin Tunnel opened in December 20, 2006. It is a twin bore tunnel 4.5km in length. It forms the section of the M50 C-Ring road around Dublin City.

http://www.dublintunnel.ie/safety/

Average Speed Camera Enforcement

A fixed speed camera capture a vehicle’s speed at a fixed point on the road, average speed camera systems track a vehicle’s speed over a set distance.

FCN’s (Fixed Charge Notices)

When the Average Speed Camera system determines that a vehicle has exceeded the speed limit within the enforcement zone it will automatically create a record of the violation which will then be transmitted to An Garda Síochána for their action. The enforcement procedure will follow existing procedures developed by An Garda Síochána for automated processing of Road Traffic Offences that incur fixed charges and if applicable penalty points.

Information about the Garda process of administering these fixed charge notices can be found on their website: www.garda.ie

Changing Lanes

Average speed is recorded between two camera positions – the enforcement zone. Changing lanes between the positions will have no effect as the cameras monitor all lanes at the start and end of the enforcement zone which is the tunnel.

http://www.tii.ie/news/press-releases/average-speed-cameras/

Marcusm

Saw this; am very sad!

James Bond Junior

They already exist in the Limerick tunnel but are not used for fixed penalty notices as there is no legislation in place to prosecute using them. Probably set to change by the sounds of it.

Mycroft H

Well it's the first. It won't be the last. We'll see them on the M50 before long.

Hopefully they'll improve flow but I won't hold my breath.

166man

That puts an end to any tunnel run fun anyway!

I'll never forget the day there was 10+ Alfa V6's all going through that tunnel, never heard anything quite like it

I've never used the tunnel.

I'd have thought that 90% of the traffic inside is of the HGV or Bus variety? Does it really need average speed cameras?

Does it help much in time saved VS using the M50? I believe it's €3 to use?


Wish they'd not use these average speed cameras though. The whole speed kills thing is a parody of itself at times. Doing a few km over the limit won't hurt anyone.

shietpilot

Nice one! I thought it was already implemented but I didn't know about average speed cameras in Ireland when I was keeping up with the Gumball cars in the tunnel :pac:

IsaacWunder

166man wrote: »

That puts an end to any tunnel run fun anyway!

I'll never forget the day there was 10+ Alfa V6's all going through that tunnel, never heard anything quite like it

Drive 'em in second?

deandean

There will be a few glorious months where the people behind the cameras will post out 'advisory' notices to any drivers they catch (but no file or points). Get one and frame it LOL ;-)

challengemaster

166man wrote: »

That puts an end to any tunnel run fun anyway!

I'll never forget the day there was 10+ Alfa V6's all going through that tunnel, never heard anything quite like it

Ah, the sound of warning hazards and tow trucks :pac:

Sh1tbag OToole

IsaacWunder wrote: »

Drive 'em in second?

Just stop for a cup of tea before the camera at the far end

Sh1tbag OToole

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Just stop for a cup of tea before the camera at the far end

This is exactly what'll be happening, though!

People will be worried that they accidentally sped up for a bit, so everyone will be crawling through. Cruise controls will be set lower 'just incase' and anyone without cruise control will be glued to their speedometer (probably making them more likely to crash) and doing well below the limit so they don't accidentally get blasted in the ass.


If it's already got a good safety record, then why not leave it as a free for all? Thinking you can put the foot down and get through quickly is surely one of it's selling points? Otherwise what's the point?

If you're travelling through at a snails pace, and risk getting fined, just not using it starts to seem more appealing..?

But again, I've never used it, so can't make a real comment on it. I've used the M50 a lot though, and have wondered would I be better off with the tunnel.

visual

Mycroft H wrote: »

Well it's the first. It won't be the last. We'll see them on the M50 before long.

Hopefully they'll improve flow but I won't hold my breath.

M50 is littered with ANPR cameras only a matter of time before they are used.

maximum12

One of the risks with the tunnel is that it gives people a false sense of safety. There are a number of bends in the tunnel where you have very short visibility range in front of you and unlike on a motorway you can't see through the bends to anticipate the need for emergency braking.

ironclaw

visual wrote: »

M50 is littered with ANPR cameras only a matter of time before they are used.

There are no ANPR cameras on the M50 capable of being used for this purpose. The current ones are only for monitoring traffic flow and timing, different ball game.

I'm all for these cameras if they are also used for enforcement of tax, insurance and NCT (A simple procedure to implement). And the introduction of variable speed limits. No reason the M50 couldn't be 120 after 8pm to 5am (For example) Its going to make it beyond painful to travel to the airport at 4am at 100 the entire way.

Have to laugh at the 'statistical' increase however. RSA figures indicate 11% of accidents are caused by speed, so all that money being spent to tackle an issue that is statically pretty unlikely.

Cabaal

Deleted User wrote: »

Wish they'd not use these average speed cameras though. The whole speed kills thing is a parody of itself at times. Doing a few km over the limit won't hurt anyone.

How exactly do you classify a few?
One person might claim 2-3km over speed limit is fine but anything more is wrong, another perhaps might see 20-30km over the speed limit as fine.

You can't have a free for all and at the end of the day if you impact a person or other object at say 60km versus 100km there is a massive difference in what happens and your risk of death or risk to others.

kirving

Why couldn't they be used? They are already designed to read registrations, and then measure the time taken for a car to go between two points and display it on a screen. Divide that figure by the distance between cameras and you have your average speed.

blackwhite

The new cameras are already up just outside the Northern entrance to the tunnel. Painted yellow and quite visible.

Didn't notice any at the toll plaza end this morning, but that might just have been because I was watching the truck slowly drifting to the right in front of me :pac:

Mc Love

James Bond Junior wrote: »

They already exist in the Limerick tunnel but are not used for fixed penalty notices as there is no legislation in place to prosecute using them. Probably set to change by the sounds of it.

80 is far too slow to be driving through it though. I never knew they had cameras in the tunnel

Marcusm

Mc Love wrote: »

80 is far too slow to be driving through it though. I never knew they had cameras in the tunnel

You enter it from a standing start (toll booth) and you exit it into an 80 zone; no way is the limit going to be any higher. I guess the number of accidents and closures has made this inevitable.

Riesen_Meal

I've never really sped through the tunnel though, on both sides they always have either the white van or the car sitting there, was a good enough deterrent for me not to speed....

mikeecho

Meanwile, this gem of a comment had been posted on Facebook

ThisRegard

Mc Love wrote: »

80 is far too slow to be driving through it though. I never knew they had cameras in the tunnel

If you never knew their were cameras maybe 80 is far too fast for you. If you speed your reg is displayed in the tunnel. So if you claim 80 is far too slow, you either don't go that fast yourself, or incapable of observing your surroundings anywhere over that speed.

Polo_Mint

I like it and have seen it used on the way to London, They have signs up everywhere.

I believe they will be fitted on the M50, N4 and N7 at some point

ironclaw

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Why couldn't they be used? They are already designed to read registrations, and then measure the time taken for a car to go between two points and display it on a screen. Divide that figure by the distance between cameras and you have your average speed.

Comes down to accuracy and tolerance. Those current cameras, for example, might miss 5% of registrations and may only be effective in reasonable weather up to a 120km/h passing speed. Compare this to a fully fledged ANPR camera for speed measurement and it may only miss 0.5% of registrations and will work in all weather up to a 200km/h passing speed. Like an M3 and a M3 CSL, same car, but a much tighter tolerance in the detail.

shietpilot

mikeecho wrote: »

Meanwile, this gem of a comment had been posted on Facebook

That's like those ads I saw on Facebook groups:
"Selling log book for a 1999 Micra. Puurfect for someone wanting a small litre car for third party extension"

Mc Love

Marcusm wrote: »

You enter it from a standing start (toll booth) and you exit it into an 80 zone; no way is the limit going to be any higher. I guess the number of accidents and closures has made this inevitable.

Not if you are coming from the M7

ThisRegard wrote: »

If you never knew their were cameras maybe 80 is far too fast for you. If you speed your reg is displayed in the tunnel. So if you claim 80 is far too slow, you either don't go past that yourself, or incapable of observing your surroundings anywhere over that speed.

Ha I do go past that and regularly travel at 100 in the tunnel as do most of the cars that use it. Most dont even turn their lights on. It should be 100.

ThisRegard

Apologies, I meant to say 'that fast', not 'past that'. When I creep over the limit in the tunnel I get my reg flashed up on the display, you must have too, did you never notice it or just not wonder how they were calculating your speed?

working fool

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is exactly what'll be happening, though!

People will be worried that they accidentally sped up for a bit, so everyone will be crawling through. Cruise controls will be set lower 'just incase' and anyone without cruise control will be glued to their speedometer (probably making them more likely to crash) and doing well below the limit so they don't accidentally get blasted in the ass.


If it's already got a good safety record, then why not leave it as a free for all? Thinking you can put the foot down and get through quickly is surely one of it's selling points? Otherwise what's the point?

If you're travelling through at a snails pace, and risk getting fined, just not using it starts to seem more appealing..?

But again, I've never used it, so can't make a real comment on it. I've used the M50 a lot though, and have wondered would I be better off with the tunnel.

Happens outside Newry on the old main road all the time

Loads of room up there to do this

Imagine a few cars pulled up in a tunnel doing the same ??

dr.fuzzenstein

James Bond Junior wrote: »

They already exist in the Limerick tunnel but are not used for fixed penalty notices as there is no legislation in place to prosecute using them. Probably set to change by the sounds of it.

They do? I go through that every morning at somethingmumble km/h and never seen or heard anything about that. If so, they are purely decorative.

CelticRambler

Mc Love wrote: »

Ha I do go past that and regularly travel at 100 in the tunnel as do most of the cars that use it. Most dont even turn their lights on. It should be 100.

The vast majority of continental tunnels are limited to 80, at most 90kmh. Good to know that Irish drivers think they're so much safer. Must be that finely tuned lane discipline ... :rolleyes:

SoupyNorman

I’d love to see these being rolled out onto the M50 and N7 also, see if it can alleviate the epidemic of excessive speed followed by ribbon braking followed by very avoidable tailbacks.

Mc Love

ThisRegard wrote: »

Apologies, I meant to say 'that fast', not 'past that'. When I creep over the limit in the tunnel I get my reg flashed up on the display, you must have too, did you never notice it or just not wonder how they were calculating your speed?

I think you are talking about the Dublin tunnel, I was replying to a post about the Limerick tunnel :pac:

ThisRegard

Mc Love wrote: »

I think you are talking about the Dublin tunnel, I was replying to a post about the Limerick tunnel :pac:

Ah, crossed wires indeed! It all makes sense now

Special Circumstances

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

They do? I go through that every morning at somethingmumble km/h and never seen or heard anything about that. If so, they are purely decorative.

Oh they'll flash "slow down" or flash the speed limit at you alright.
So I'm told ;);)

Try harder :pac:

Special Circumstances

ironclaw wrote: »

Have to laugh at the 'statistical' increase however. RSA figures indicate 11% of accidents are caused by speed, so all that money being spent to tackle an issue that is statically pretty unlikely.

I think that they "revised" these figures recently to make speed a bigger factor.
Possibly as part of the same "re-examination" of facts that justified a speed camera on a motorway where the only fatality was due to a confused person driving the wrong way.

Feel free to substitute "re-imagined" or "fudged" for revised or re-examined.


I'd love to know the process used and the body responsible for the revision. I remember that 11% was the number until recently.
http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Road-Safety/Campaigns/Archived-Campaigns/Mess--Crash/The-statistics/
Speed is the biggest contributing factor to road deaths in the Republic of Ireland; 29% of road deaths between 1996 and 2004 in Ireland were due to speeding.

Say you were to tuck in behind a truck before the first camera, presumably you could hoon the rest of the way through the tunnel as the system would have no start time to calculate from?

marno21

Average speed cameras have to be rolled out in conjunction with the variable speed limits on the M50 so it was only a matter of time before legislation was brought in.

shietpilot

They should also implement average time spent in the overtaking lane cameras and fine those who just sit there doing nothing :pac:

Mycroft H

cisk wrote: »

Say you were to tuck in behind a truck before the first camera, presumably you could hoon the rest of the way through the tunnel as the system would have no start time to calculate from?

Surely they'd have cameras pointing both ways. Experience from the M50 toll would tell them this...

Daz_

cisk wrote: »

Say you were to tuck in behind a truck before the first camera, presumably you could hoon the rest of the way through the tunnel as the system would have no start time to calculate from?

And why would you do that ?! Just shows that we need speed cameras to stop stupid driving behaviour

ironclaw

Mycroft H wrote: »

Surely they'd have cameras pointing both ways. Experience from the M50 toll would tell them this...

Correct. The angle is so acute anyway that even up the rear end of a truck will do you no good, except shorten your life expectancy.

mikeecho

These cameras work in the IR spectrum.

There are plate covers that block IR light, causing the plate to appear as a mirror to these cameras.

But i wouldn't recommend/condone their use as they may be illegal.

plenty of examples on the interweb, if you google
"ir plate blocker"
"Stealthplate"
etc

that or we will see a proliferation of licence plate flippers

GM228

mikeecho wrote: »

But i wouldn't recommend/condone their use as they may be illegal.

They are illegal!

mikeecho

GM228 wrote: »

They are illegal!

They quite possible are, but i'm not aware of any recorded court outcome or any piece of S.I. that says they are prohibited.

That's why i said "may"

GM228

mikeecho wrote: »

They quite possible are, but i'm not aware of any recorded court outcome or any piece of S.I. that says they are prohibited.

That's why i said "may"

Any device which frustrates the operation of speed detection is illegal as per the SI below!

The appropriate SI:-

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1991/si/50/made/en/print

3. In these Regulations, "speed meter detector" means any device which is capable of being used to indicate the existence of, or to frustrate the operation of, electronic or other apparatus being used to give indications from which the speed at which a person was driving can be inferred.

4. A person shall not use in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle to which is fitted, or in or on which is carried, a speed meter detector whether or not such device is actually in use.

5. (1) The importation or supplying of, or offering to supply, a speed meter detector is hereby prohibited.

(2) The fitting of, or offering to fit, a speed meter detector to a mechanically propelled vehicle is hereby prohibited.

6. Article 5 of these Regulations shall be a penal Regulation.

serious3

Two very easy and simple ways to avoid these average speed cameras.
1. Don't use the port tunnel
2. If you do, stick to the speed limit.

Cabaal

Cabaal wrote: »

How exactly do you classify a few?
One person might claim 2-3km over speed limit is fine but anything more is wrong, another perhaps might see 20-30km over the speed limit as fine.

Drive to the conditions of the road.

Nothing wrong with ploughing ahead at 140kph at 5am on an empty motorway.

Just like there's nothing wrong with doing 30kph in an 80 zone, where the road is a windy, sharp-turning back road with leaves on it's surface.

Special Circumstances

mikeecho wrote: »

These cameras work in the IR spectrum.

There are plate covers that block IR light, causing the plate to appear as a mirror to these cameras.

But i wouldn't recommend/condone their use as they may be illegal.

plenty of examples on the interweb, if you google
"ir plate blocker"
"Stealthplate"
etc

that or we will see a proliferation of licence plate flippers

GM228 wrote: »

Any device which frustrates the operation of speed detection is illegal as per the SI below!

The appropriate SI:-

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1991/si/50/made/en/print

I wonder what cars* with active night vision look like to a speed/anpr camera using IR?


*all 5 or so of them in Ireland lol.

ironclaw

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I wonder what cars* with active night vision look like to a speed/anpr camera using IR?


*all 5 or so of them in Ireland lol.

To my knowledge, all are thermal based or highly sensitive to the IR range. They then mix the image with visible to present a hybrid. Therefore they don't omit anything forwards. You technically don't need IR to see in the dark. Nikon for example made a DSLR camera that suspiciously was sold out before it even hit the consumer market and was delayed. Transpired the chip for the sensor could effectively see in the dark and the MoD in the UK bought all of the first run. Most Mazda's and a few Volvo's omit an IR beam continuously at the front for adaptive braking and cruise control. That lies around 905nm, well above any camera system (850 to 880nm) You'll see 850nm as a warm red glow, but the closer you get to 900, the less the human eye can perceive it.

Either way, before anyone has any ideas, the amount of IR light one would need to pump out to 'blind' a standard speed / ANPR camera is actually enormous (Think the 'Hella' spot lamps on a Rallycross car and you're half way there) The cameras are apt at reading in all light conditions and they are sensitive on a much wider spectrum than a standard camera. Its why you may block, for example, the visible spectrum, but your plate will be clear as day in the UV or IR ranges. They are also very good at adjusting to changes in all light conditions e.g. Pitch dark to sudden full Xenon heads. If you imagine a standard camera might take 2 seconds to adjust, a ANPR camera might do it in 10ms.

In short, I would highly suggest just slowly down where you need to slow down. Its cheaper and more effective. Even the 'super speeders' you see on the likes of Gumball, Gold Rush and Bullrun do it. There are times when, agree or disagree, its better to just slow down.

Special Circumstances

Active systems (Merc) do emit IR, passive systems (most others) don't.

but yeah, from all I've heard the ANPR/speed cameras are much more difficult to "wash out" than your average CCTV.