"Friend"who took advantage

LegacyUser

I was at a football match recently with a friend of mine. I've known him for about twenty years now and even though we don't meet very often I suppose you could say we are good friends. Most of our friendship revolves around football though.

I met him for a bite to eat before the game and he didn't have any money on him so I paid for both of us and he said he would pay me later. He owed me €30 for the match ticket as well because I bought it for him. The meal came to about €30. He had a beer with his food so his total was €16 or €17. So he owed me about €46 I think. On the way out he asked me had I any money for the tip so I just showed him what I had in my hand which was about €8 or €9 in lose change. He took €5 out of it and left it on the table. On the way to the match he stopped at the ATM and gave me €40. On the way out of the match there was a girl collecting for the HOPE foundation and I saw him looking over at her so I knew what was coming next. He asked me had I €2 so I gave it to him. His daughter volunteers for HOPE so he said he wanted to give something.As you can see he is taking the p*** at this stage. I didn't say anything on either occasion as I assumed he would pay me back later. The incident with the girl collecting for HOPE was really gas I thought as it was like saying "I want to give money to this charity (but only as long as it's not my own money)".

I must qualify this by saying there is a contrast in our personal circumstances. He has four school-going children and a mortgage. However his wife works two or three days a week and get this;he is a lecturer at a well-known university and is educated to PhD level (has been there for a good few years as well so he must be on a good salary). I don't have any children, I am not married and don't have a mortgage. I live at home and my parents have land. I am working but not in a high-paying job. I know why he did the things at the match that I described above: he knows I have no major financial commitments and my folks have land.Other things too like I recently gave €20 to an online fund-rasing campaign his daughter had set up. He's thinking it's OK to use me as his personal ATM as "sure Pat can afford it".

But this is not acceptable in any way to me. Simply because I wouldn't behave like that myself. It goes against my principles. If my situation and his were reversed I wouldn't dream of taking advantage. Even if he was an Arab sheikh with truckloads of money and I was just an ordinary joe I would still pay my way and insist upon it (most people would, wouldn't they?). He is always complaining about not having enough money though.I can only assume he is being taxed quite a lot but still it is a bit hard for me to understand how he can be so broke all the time.

To give you an example; If you remember about a year ago there was a technical glitch with one of the banks and a lot of people weren't paid their monthly salary. He said he and his wife had to ask their mother to transfer money to their account because they didn't have any money to buy groceries for the family. This free-loading is an attitude I cannot understand.

I have basically come to the conclusion that the guy is a complete and utter p**** and I am an even bigger one for putting up with it. I don't really like him anymore and can't see myself hanging out much with him a lot anymore. I won't blank him or cut him out of my life completely but I can't see us going back to being like it was before. My view of him has changed pretty drastically as a result of what I described above. It's like if you have a friend and they have poor personal hygiene and smell bad sometimes. It puts you off them, you don't see them in the same positive light anymore.

I would say he views me negatively or as a "lesser person" because I don't have the adulty attachments that he has;wife, family, mortgage etc. To tell you the truth I see myself that way sometimes too and sometimes I dislike myself for not being "as good as" him. However to be truthful I never wanted to get married or have children and I am a bit of a homebird, I like the place I was brought up and feel comfortable there. Maybe I have been a bit cowardly in my choices in life (it's a fair accusation) but that's still no excuse for him to act like he has (I am in my early forties, he is in his late fifties).

He has pulled this kind of thing before I must add;one time years ago we went to a match in England and he owed me for it (couple of hundred quid) and he didn't pay me at the end of the trip as he said he would but instead paid me a few days later (said he "forgot").

I am sad to lose his friendship but not too bothered in another way because I now really dislike the guy. I don't think he will be too bothered anyway as he obviously thinks I am beneath him.
I know what some people reading this are going say:"You should confront him about this and tell him it's not on". Yeah I should but it's just easier to just not deal with him anymore (or as much). If I confront him about it it will cause a strain in our relationship that will probably never be healed. I am not a very assertive person, I just cut off people who I don't like or who offend me.

Not paying your way is something I particularly dislike in a person, I can't stand it. Obviously we all have friends and sometimes they do things that piss you off but maybe you put up with it because you want to have friends. But my attitude is "with a friend like that who needs enemies?". To give you another example I worked for a guy a few years ago and I had problems getting my salary from him sometimes as the company was not very profitable (he was a nice enough guy otherwise though and I got on grand with him). What really annoyed me was not so much that he wouldn't pay me but that it didn't seem to bother him that he didn't pay me (I think he also knew my parent had land). I left the job because I got fed up with it and I haven't maintained contact with the guy because I have no respect for someone like that.

I think what hurt me most about the incident with my "friend" is not the money aspect of it but just that he thought it was OK to do that because "it's only Pat". He doesn't value my friendship enough not to offend me.

I have another friend that I went to a concert with a couple of months back. It was the same craic with him, I had to pay for all the taxis that night, he was very tight with money.However I know his job is very low-paying and I didn't take that much offence at it and I still talk to him. However let's just say I wouldn't go to a lot of concerts with him in future.

Maybe I am over-reacting about the incident(s) at the match but I have been stewing about it since it happened, it really made me mad. It was only a few quid but it's the way I was viewed by this guy who I thought of as a friend.

athtrasna

Am I reading this right, it comes down to about a tenner? (tip shared between both of you), which you didn't ask for at the time but has been eating you up since then?

Is this a once off? Have you ever said it to him? Have you ever let him sort the tickets and left him short to make a point?

Big Bag of Chips

I think, and you touched on it yourself, you're projecting a lot of your own stuff on to him. Your post, and I didn't read all of it because it was too long, is full of what you think he's thinking. You have no idea what he's thinking. Whatever about how much he earns, or is taxed, or pays for his mortgage etc if he couldn't afford a day out to a match, then he shouldn't have gone! He certainly shouldn't have gone for something to eat and drink before hand.. unless you offered??

He's not that strapped, he's just a bit tight! Does this often happen, or was it just this once? Many people comment about "sure you're loaded" to others. Sometimes they mean it, sometimes they don't. Sometimes their just stingy themselves and money is the only thing they are interested in. How little they have compared to how much they think everyone else has. You have no idea what he thinks of you, and your living arrangements. So what if he thinks you're loaded. I'm sure there are plenty of other people he thinks are loaded too! He takes advantage of you because you allow it.

Either you stop hanging around with him, or you stop handing over money.

LegacyUser

athtrasna wrote: »

Am I reading this right, it comes down to about a tenner? (tip shared between both of you), which you didn't ask for at the time but has been eating you up since then?

I can't remember what the meal cost exactly but he definitely didn't pay me back in full because he gave me €30 for the match ticket and €10 on top of that. But what he had at the meal cost more than €10 as he had a beer with his food. It was more that he took the money for the tip from me and didn't go halves and the €2 for the girl collecting for COPE.

athtrasna wrote: »

Is this a once off? Have you ever said it to him? Have you ever let him sort the tickets and left him short to make a point?

No it's not a once off there's been a few other things as well that I can't remember in full but definitely not a once off. I've never said anything to him. No I've never left him short for anything.

LegacyUser

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I think, and you touched on it yourself, you're projecting a lot of your own stuff on to him. Your post, and I didn't read all of it because it was too long, is full of what you think he's thinking. You have no idea what he's thinking. Whatever about how much he earns, or is taxed, or pays for his mortgage etc if he couldn't afford a day out to a match, then he shouldn't have gone! He certainly shouldn't have gone for something to eat and drink before hand.. unless you offered??

He's not that strapped, he's just a bit tight! Does this often happen, or was it just this once? Many people comment about "sure you're loaded" to others. Sometimes they mean it, sometimes they don't. Sometimes their just stingy themselves and money is the only thing they are interested in. How little they have compared to how much they think everyone else has. You have no idea what he thinks of you, and your living arrangements. So what if he thinks you're loaded. I'm sure there are plenty of other people he thinks are loaded too! He takes advantage of you because you allow it.

Either you stop hanging around with him, or you stop handing over money.

Yeah it was a bit long, sorry about that. I'd say he is that strapped (search for the word "groceries" in my first post). I didn't offer to go and eat beforehand, it was his idea. I certainly never indicated I would pay for it. I think I am correct in what I said he thinks of me.

K_P

Patthefaker wrote: »

I've never said anything to him. No I've never left him short for anything.

I think you know as well as anyone else what you need to start doing. Start leaving him short and don't be so accommodating. It's definitely a bit cheeky of him. I know it's only around a tenner but it'd definitely be annoying if it happened every time you see him. Next time, have him book the tickets, say you're short when he asks you to pay for dinner. Or say you left your wallet at home. Or your card has been skimmed and you're waiting on a new one so you only have the cash you have on you. Have enough cash to pay for yourself but no more.

This doesn't seem like the kind of thing to lose a friendship over, but put a stop to it.

retro:electro

Honestly, you need to chill out. On both occasions you've detailed here he managed to pay you back, okay the first time was a few days later than planned, no biggie, and the second was a couple of euro shy of what he owed you; again no big deal, and hardly worth the scathing character report you've written about him. Honestly the incident when he borrowed from a family member is neither here nor there, and nothing to do with you. He had no money through no fault of his own so he borrowed a few bob from his mother and most probably paid it back, hardly worthy of being called a free loader. I think you have a major chip on your shoulder, maybe you're just tight with money, who knows, but you sound like the sort who counts every penny and no sooner has a friend borrowed a fiver than you're looking for it back.

dori_dormer

I think you are letting what you think he thinks of you, form your reaction to a few euro discrepancy. Anything less than 20 euro I wouldn't bat an eyelid at a friend owing me.

Although I think you are too forth coming with your money, ie the charity box bit. You could just say you need your coins for X later.
And the taxis. If a friend didn't have the cash on the first ride, you simply say, 'I'll get the one in, you get the one out yeah?'
Simple stuff to show them where you stand.
I don't think him needing money for groceries from his mil is a fair comment to make. If neither adults wages turn up one month, you are caught very short! You may only have a small amount of savings to go on the mortgage, bills and kids expenses. And how do you know they didn't pay the mother back when their money came through? It's not freeloading, it's family helping each other out at a difficult time.

Faith

I don't know, I think there's a pair of you in this. You're in your early 40s, living at home (rent free?) with very little in the way of bills or expenses, by the sounds of it. So pretty much all of your money is expendable. Let's say you're on a fairly average wage of €35,000. That would be about €28000 after tax for a single person.

According to the first result on Google, a senior lecturer in Ireland earns about €82,668 (as of 2009 - so let's assume €85,000 now due to the recession). Say his wife earns €20,000 from her part time employment. That's roughly €75,000 after tax to support 6 people, or €12000 per person. That household income covers a mortgage and school costs for 4 children.

I'd agree that he shouldn't be doing things that he can't afford, but I also think you could be more forgiving in your views of his circumstances. It sounds like you think he's rolling in it, and just doesn't want to share, but in reality I'd say his family are a bit caught for money.

You're also inferring a huge amount, that has no basis in reality. You think he looks down on you. Maybe the time he spends with you is the only time he really gets to himself, to relax and enjoy his hobby. Maybe that's why he engages in it with enthusiasm?

You seem obsessed with money, and the fact that your parents have land (you mentioned it 3 separate times!). You also describe an extremely avoidant personality type in yourself. It sounds to me like maybe you're not compatible as friends alright - but not for the reasons you think.

ongarboy

Patthefaker wrote: »

I know what some people reading this are going say:"You should confront him about this and tell him it's not on". Yeah I should but it's just easier to just not deal with him anymore (or as much). If I confront him about it it will cause a strain in our relationship that will probably never be healed. I am not a very assertive person, I just cut off people who I don't like or who offend me.

OP, I think above is a far bigger problem for you than any stingy friend. No one is perfect and everyone - partners, friends, lovers, siblings or anyone that is someway close to you is going to annoy you at some stage or another. Cutting everyone off rather than addressing the situation with them means you will be left with no one in your life at some point. Yes, your friend sounds like a bit of an opportunist but there are ways and means to gently address the situation with them rather than falling out or absorbing such pent up anger as you've been doing which manifests itself into projecting your issues onto others which does you no favours.

If the friend fails to acknowledge your concerns, then yes, he really is not a friend and you should distance yourself. But if it's just a genuine misunderstanding or different approach to how one borrows and repays between friends, then it's a shame you'd sacrifice a friendship over this. You've possibly lived too sheltered a life of 40 plus years at home with the parents if you are not willing or able enough to understand the imperfection of human behaviour and that compromise and assertiveness are required to handle many or most of life's challenges with others. Otherwise, you will be left always feeling like the increasingly bitter person who has always being done wrong because of your tunnel vision expectation of what life and human nature should be.

SB_Part2

What exactly are you going to confront him about? Him owing you about a 10er?

The only person that will look stingy if you confront him is you.

johnnyskeleton

Usually when i go for a meal with friends someone will pay an extra few quid and someone will pay a bit less.

Sometimes its me, sometimes its someone else.

Its part of the hurly burly of a night out, and is not intentional. No one wants to be the guy who whips out the calculator.

Very often when there is a ticket affair, a few pints and some food the exact divisions are hard to calculate. For instance, maybe your pal mistakenly thought that the ticket was 20 so by giving you 40 he was more than covering his own share.

Sometimes a friend will be short a few bob for whatever reason - they could lose their job, or they could just have been drinking a lot and spending foolishly. Id rather help them out on a no questions asked basis, knowing that it all works out in the end.

There are exceptions to this, however. Some friends of mine would quite happily allow everyone else get a round in and then dissappear when its their turn. Such people arent always strapped for cash either.

My advice, along with many others here, is to let these things go. However, if youve already decided to lose your friend over these things then so be it. Thats your choice

mada82

Why didn't you just tell him 40 didn't cover it?

Keane2baMused

OP next time you do something with him if he asks for money just say you only brought enough for yourself (so sorry) .It feels crap to have to do it but it's honestly a slippery slope.

I had a friend who would borrow the odd ten or twenty euro, may pay it back weeks later or never at all. This evolved into a lot more than twenty euro, hundreds at a time and I never saw any of it back.

Now I do agree you are over analysing what he 'may' be thinking but it's best to make it clear you aren't a bank machine too.

There's one thing helping a friend in need out and another when they're asking you to put 2 euro for them in a charity box, bizarre.

Meauldsegosha

Patthefaker wrote: »

He is always complaining about not having enough money though.I can only assume he is being taxed quite a lot but still it is a bit hard for me to understand how he can be so broke all the time.

I think this is the crux of the issue here OP. You live at home with your parents and admit you are a homebird. I don't believe you are aware or have any concept of the financial constraints many people (including those in well paid jobs) are under in this country.

Patthefaker wrote: »

I would say he views me negatively or as a "lesser person" because I don't have the adulty attachments that he has;wife, family, mortgage etc. To tell you the truth I see myself that way sometimes too and sometimes I dislike myself for not being "as good as" him.

These are your own insecurities. If you dislike the choices you made in life, do something about it. You come across as unlikable in your post not your friend.

StupidLikeAFox

Did you enjoy the day out apart from the €20 odd that you are out?

Tbh, I think you could just identify this behaviour in future and nip it in the bud when it happens. In the restaurant you could have just thrown in your half and let him pay the rest by card. Be practical about it - no point letting it fester and losing a friend over it

Big Bag of Chips

Also... Did you offer to pay for the bite to eat so he could pay you back later? As mentioned, he has a card, so could have paid and you could've given him the €20 or whatever. I get the impression you just don't like this fella very much anymore. That's fine. People often drift apart as they get older and their lives move in different directions.

He earns a fair bit, but will have very many more monthly outgoings than you do. It doesn't seem like he's stuck for money, but doesn't often have cash on him (I'm similar!) There was so much in your post about this fella and what you think he thinks, that there's obviously more to this than the tip and the €2.

Of course they had to ask their parents for money when their wages didn't go into the bank. Do you realise most families are waiting for payday?!! Very very very few people will have a build up at the end of the month these days. You do because your salary is 100% yours. Just because they are waiting for payday and had to take a loan from their parents doesn't make them "freeloaders". You're assuming they didn't pay it back? My parents would very occasionally pay for something for me, if they were collecting the item or arranging something with somebody they know etc. Very often they won't take cash back when I see them. Am is freeloader? Occasionally, depending on how much I might owe them I will lodge it back into their bank account, or I will pick something up for them another time and not take the money. In life, in families, it's swings and roundabouts. If you only have to look after yourself, then you won't know that.

I think there is some serious resentment building up on your part towards this fella. Maybe some of it is warranted, but some of it is certainly imagined/exaggerated. I wouldn't bother trying to rescue the friendship. You say you don't see much of him anymore anyway, I think it's just time to let it drift now. No point in spending what little time you do spend with him seething!

zoobizoo

People have different attitudes towards money - you and he certainly do.

Is he a prick? Doesn't sound like it - sounds like he just doesn't see it from your point of view.

Bring it up with him - he might just think:

"oh jaysus, I hate carrying cash and I always forget to get to an ATM. Thanks for letting me know".

LegacyUser

Meauldsegosha wrote: »

I think this is the crux of the issue here OP. You live at home with your parents and admit you are a homebird. I don't believe you are aware or have any concept of the financial constraints many people (including those in well paid jobs) are under in this country.

Actually I am. Even though I live at home with my parents I still have to watch what I spend.
I don't throw away food and I don't buy my lunch at work, I make it at home, have done for years. You seem to be saying it's OK for this guy to let me pay for things as he has financial constraints.

Meauldsegosha wrote: »

These are your own insecurities. If you dislike the choices you made in life, do something about it. You come across as unlikable in your post not your friend.

Yes my "friend" is a terrific guy in comparison, freeloading on someone without a care in the world. I've never done that in my life and never will.

intheclouds

While I agree that the specific sum of money on this occasion is nothing to get hot and bothered about, generally speaking people who come out with NO cash when meeting someone for a drink or dinner etc annoy me. If you know you are going to be splitting a meal bill with someone - bring money!!

I have a friend who only ever brings a card and its an absolute pain at a group meal that she is asking staff to bring the machine for her card while the rest of us are putting cash in. And it is rooted in scabbiness, it absolutely is. She does it so that she only ever pays the "named" amount and never puts in a few extra shillings for a tip or rounds up to a note value.

The OPs friend is cut from the same cloth imo. The only answer to people like this is to only have the exact amount ready yourself and never sub them. You CAN continue the friendship but you need to modify how you behave with them financially and not be subbing them if it means it eats you up afterwards.

LegacyUser

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Did you enjoy the day out apart from the €20 odd that you are out?

Not really.It kind of stuck in my mind during the match. I actually wasn't too bothered about not getting the extra bit for the meal as it was only €5 I think. But then when he took €5 for the tip out of my loose change and then the €2 for the girl collecting I thought it was a bit much. I suppose it's my own fault really because obviously he has known me for a long time and probably picked up that I am not a very assertive person. It's the nature of people, they know your character and adjust their behaviour with you accordingly.
A few people have said it's no big deal. I suppose certain things annoy some people more than others. I just find meanness a really negative thing in a person.
Just on the point I made about him borrowing money for his mother;a few people misunderstood me here I think. I didn't think there was anything wrong with this, I know he paid it back. I just mentioned it from the point of view that I thought it was astonishing that someone in such a well-paying job would have to resort to that.
A few people have said I'm tight with money,I can assure you I'm not. Whenever I go to his house I always bring treats for his kids. Someone said we are not compatible as friends; that's a good point actually;he is married, with children, house, mortgage, big job etc. I have none of those things. I feel a bit inferior in his company at times to be honest even though he seems to enjoy my company, I don't know why though.

robindch

Patthefaker wrote: »

I would say he views me negatively or as a "lesser person" because I don't have the adulty attachments that he has;wife, family, mortgage etc.

That's a complete supposition upon your part and not a very nice one either.

Why not forget about the cash and enjoy the friendship you do have?

FWIW, I know a few people who never invite me over to their place and can be hopelessly tightfisted - no point in getting upset about it - that's just the way they are.

LegacyUser

robindch wrote: »

FWIW, I know a few people who never invite me over to their place and can be hopelessly tightfisted - no point in getting upset about it - that's just the way they are.

That reminds me of a quote from the film Trainspotting: "Begbie's a f****n' psycho, man! But... he's a mate, so what can you do?"

Big Bag of Chips

Patthefaker wrote: »

.... my "friend" is a terrific guy in comparison, freeloading on someone without a care in the world. I've never done that in my life and never will.

The fact that you put the word friend in quotes is enough to tell me that you don't think much of him. So why the thread? Why continue to meet up with him? Did you start the thread, with a very lengthy post outlining all the things you find disagreeable about him in the hope that people would just reply saying "yeah, you're right", "you're dead right, he's a freeloader" etc etc... Did you/do you want advice or do you just want a consensus?

Nobody is saying that they think it's ok for this fella to freeload off you. But you are bandying the word around handily enough, even in cases where it is not appropriate (them needing to borrow money from their parents when their wages didn't go into the bank). You now have your impression of him built in your mind and I'd say it doesn't matter what we say, or what he does, that's it in your eyes.

So just let the "friendship" go. Regardless of my financial circumstances, regardless of whether or not I occasionally leave a friend a couple of Euro short if they pay for tea and a bun for me, I would hate to be friends with someone who meets up with me, agrees to go out together occasionally, only to have them then bitch behind my back about how I'm their "friend". Do the decent thing and be "busy" next time he calls you.

sadie1502

Sounds like there is more going on?

Yeah just be busy next time it's swings and roundabouts. I'm sure if you were stuck he wouldn't see you stuck and would think twice about sorting you out.

Chocolate fiend

What is the big deal with your parents having land? Are you an only child sitting on a huge inheritance?

Story Bud?

Patthefaker wrote: »

I feel a bit inferior in his company at times

There's your problem.

duffman13

I think you need to stop judging your friend because you deem him superior. It comes across in your post that the only negative thing you have to say about your friendship is he left you short a tenner once and took a couple of days to pay you back another time.

At the end of the day every group of friends think differently about money, I think your situation with your friend is completely not worth falling out over. Next time just tell him exactly what he owes and you wont spend a whole match (which cost you 30 quid) thinking about a fiver you were left short. If you want to phase this guy out of your life as a result that's more your loss than his based on your post.

LegacyUser

I think if you lose this friendship you will be worse off for it. By your own account he has never failed to pay you back a substantial amount of money. Yes I agree his behaviour wasn't perfect he should have taken more money out of the ATM but I think you are over analysis ing it & making all kinds of assumptions about how he thinks about you. You're not making an income off your parents land so why would that even be a factor?

The money for groceries things is ridiculous on your part, if you're never had a mortgage (plus mortgage protection, house insurance), a wife & 4 kids with all the many many expenses all that entails how on earth are you in a position to make a judgement about that? All those direct debits started coming out after a date when his salary wasn't transferred. Maybe he has savings tied up an investment or a fixed term deposit. It's not "freeloading" & most importantly it's his business.

I think the most important thing is the way his success in life makes you feel. If you were truly happy with your own life decisions I don't think it would bother you, well certainly not to the extent it does. So maybe look at that?

Ellie2008

Hi OP,

I think you are blowing a minor friendship misdemeanour out of all proportion, & making a lot of assumptions about how this person thinks about you.

What I'm curious about is what you think about you. Why, if you are truly happy in your life decision does him doing "adulty" things and being successful in life bother you to the extent that it does? Why are you spending so much time & energy sweating the small stuff in this friendship? Is there something missing from your life? I'm not judging you living at home with your parents, if that truly makes you happy but does it? Have you thought about long term when your parents die?

ibarelycare

OP it strikes me that you're jealous of your friend, and insecure about your own life, and you're using this money thing as a reason to justify feeling angry towards him. Your language used to describe him is very harsh and OTT.

LegacyUser

I wouldn't say I am "jealous" of him, maybe more envious or that I'm not a proper adult and he is, if you know what I mean.
Someone asked why did I put up the thread, do I want advice or do I just want a consensus?
I suppose I just wanted to vent and also to see if others would be as offended in the same position. A few have come back saying "ah sure my buddies do that all the time but they are my friends,what can you do?". Maybe they are right, I was just surprised when it happened, maybe I am naive in that respect.
A lot of people got the wrong impression I think, saying that I was tight-fisted etc. That wasn't it at all, I was just disappointed that I would be viewed in that way by someone I thought of as a friend ("I can take money off him and he won't mind"). He has other friends who are married with children etc. and I am pretty sure he wouldn't do that with them.
I am not making any money off the land we have at home but still it's there if something terrible befell me or my parents.It's nice to have that security but I don't think it makes me "wealthy". I wouldn't be too bothered if I didn't inherit it actually, I have qualifications, I can work and earn a decent living. I'd rather see it go to my niece and nephew or let my parents
get some value out of it before I die.
Anyway I've got some good advice (even the critical replies). I suppose I am a bit wiser as a result.

retro:electro

Patthefaker wrote: »

I wouldn't say I am "jealous" of him, maybe more envious or that I'm not a proper adult and he is, if you know what I mean.
Someone asked why did I put up the thread, do I want advice or do I just want a consensus?
I suppose I just wanted to vent and also to see if others would be as offended in the same position. A few have come back saying "ah sure my buddies do that all the time but they are my friends,what can you do?". Maybe they are right, I was just surprised when it happened, maybe I am naive in that respect.
A lot of people got the wrong impression I think, saying that I was tight-fisted etc. That wasn't it at all, I was just disappointed that I would be viewed in that way by someone I thought of as a friend ("I can take money off him and he won't mind"). He has other friends who are married with children etc. and I am pretty sure he wouldn't do that with them.
I am not making any money off the land we have at home but still it's there if something terrible befell me or my parents.It's nice to have that security but I don't think it makes me "wealthy". I wouldn't be too bothered if I didn't inherit it actually, I have qualifications, I can work and earn a decent living. I'd rather see it go to my niece and nephew or let my parents
get some value out of it before I die.
Anyway I've got some good advice (even the critical replies). I suppose I am a bit wiser as a result.

But he didn't take money off you? Both instances you've detailed here he has paid you back. Maybe you're ten euro down on what you originally gave him but that's something that happens within a friendship dynamic with most people. There is still a lot of speculation in your post and tbh it's not something worth stewing over.

Big Bag of Chips

Patthefaker wrote: »

I was just disappointed that I would be viewed in that way by someone I thought of as a friend ("I can take money off him and he won't mind"). He has other friends who are married with children etc. and I am pretty sure he wouldn't do that with them.

But this is all supposition in your head. You think that's what he thinks.. unless he actually said those words to you? And you guess you know how he behaves with others. I'll be honest, OP, the charity thing .. there are very very few people I'd feel comfortable enough with to say "Throw €2 into that for me, will ya!". I would really only say something like that to a family member or very very close friend! I wouldn't say it to an acquaintance, or random work colleague etc. So maybe rather than, as you think, he's taking advantage thinking "sure I'll take money off him" maybe, just maybe he actually considers you a close enough friend to be a bit "loose" with finances (with each other).

I get the impression you've never been in a position where you asked him for a fiver or to pay your share, and you paid him back, so you don't really know how he'd react. He mightn't even bat an eye at it! I know with a handful of my very close friends there would be the odd euro here and there that one might pay this time and the other might get it another time. I don't keep a tally, and I'd be disappointed if I thought they did!

Anyway, it seems there's more to this than just a few quid, so maybe it's time for you to decide where to go from here. Being "adulty" doesn't just involve marriage and kids etc. You can also do the "adulty" things without that if that's what's bothering you. You could move out of home, spread your wings a bit, become a bit more independent and "adulty". I'd say you'd be surprised to hear what your friend thinks of you... And I'd say he'd be even more surprised to hear what YOU think he thinks of you!!

LegacyUser

As a lecturer in one of the most well-known universities in Ireland, I'm a bit shocked at the presumption he's well off.

It can 15/20 years to get to senior lecturer status. Most full-time lecturers earn less than the national average industrial wage and a huge number (estimates as high as 60%) get €10,000
or less. Myself, and most of my colleagues earn so little we are supplemented by the social welfare system.

Check out Third Level Workplace Watch and get some facts straight.

daisybelle2008

ibarelycare wrote: »

OP it strikes me that you're jealous of your friend, and insecure about your own life, and you're using this money thing as a reason to justify feeling angry towards him. Your language used to describe him is very harsh and OTT.

OP I totally agree with IBC here.


Your language towards your "friend" (I honestly can't believe how petty you are using inverted commas), is pretty shocking when applied to a friendship.

'I now really dislike the guy.'
"with a friend like that who needs enemies?".
'the guy is a complete and utter p**** '
'my "friend" …freeloading on someone without a care in the world'

All over €8, its bizarre! I honestly think that there is some emotional maturity and connections that are maybe stunted for you. You are in your 40's and live at home. Have you every had a relationship? Lived away from home or lived abroad? Have you had deep emotional connections with people (friendships or relationships) outside the home.

To be measuring the value of a friendship in cents and a few euros is really weird. Throwing away a friendship because of that means it was never really valued by you. But I think maybe you don't really value friendship anyway and are just going through the motions to pass the time.

I think definitely you should remove yourself from the friendship, because your thinking is not healthy. If you keep narrowing down your life more than it is do you think you will be happy? I think you are very obsessed with money btw, measuring everything in life through status, land, euros is not normal.

wokingvoter

I'm in a part time job , my husband is full time we have a mortgage credit card car loans etc and a very expensive 18 year old daughter
We don't go out much, and definitely not with other couples to matches and dinner and things because we can't afford it and that's pretty much the end of that.
I can manage coffee and a scone once in a blue moon with a colleague
I have no idea what your friend was doing eating with you in a restaurant if he had no money in his wallet
Why didn't he go to the ATM before he ate?
Insisting you leave a tip and make a donation to charity?
Get lost!!
OP you didn't enjoy the night out, try to remember that the next time he suggests you go out and find other friends who aren't total clowns.

gercoral

i think a lot of people are being unduly harsh here.
i get where the OP is coming from. you're probably seen as the soft touch, the yes man.

its the principle of the matter. i don't like people taking the piss with me with me either..if he knew he was going socialising, why wouldn't he bring money?

i don't think the OP is as sheltered as you all make out. sure, he still lives at home, BUT he ain't sitting on his hole all day. he's out working, contributing to society, has his degrees and qualifications.

like i said, it's the principle of the matter. i would help anyone out, anytime, but if it's a constant thing with someone who IS earning a wage, i wouldn't be impressed. if you can't afford it, save for for it, or just don't do it.

leggo

I'm a bit more sympathetic than most too. I mean, I'm grand with giving mates money and stuff, sometimes I can be overly-generous. But I also know when someone expects it from you. One of my housemates is an awful man for this. He'll let you pay and say he'll pay you back, then you literally have to chase him up on this for weeks because he'll just let it slide otherwise. He'll never, ever put his hand in his pockets for taxis. I remember the first time I clocked it was when I ordered food in a pub and offered him a chip and he started pretty much eating the whole meal until I pulled him away and said, "Alright mate, I'm not Oxfam" in a joking way. Some people are just scabs. The way to deal with them is to just make sure you never put them in a position to do this until they get the point. Bring out just enough cash to pay for yourself.

Also, doesn't being Irish come in really handy for times like this? I never get why people waste this geographical, biological advantage we have where we can passively-aggressively deal with situations like this, laugh at the end of it, deliver the message, call it 'the slaggings' and it's hard-wired into all of our Irish DNA that this is acceptable. If someone tried that charity trick with me, I'd be like, "Ah yeah, look at Mick trying to look Mr Big Balls to the charity girl with someone else's two euro! It's not give a penny, take a penny pal!" or something along those lines. Messing, but still, come on like. If you can call out people like this in an inoffensive, ultimately harmless way, they know to cop on around you.

I mean, everyone else here is absolutely right (and you admit it yourself) when they point out there's a massive inferiority complex here and you're looking for validation that you are, in fact, somehow better than this man for a few, tiny transgressions that aren't really problems at all considering he pays you back. But I figured someone should give you practical advice on the problem you actually asked about too.

LegacyUser

I think people are being very harsh on the op. I would be a person who really hates being left out by even a 10er when there is events where people pay and get money back.

Even with my gf I would be adding up all costs from a meal or day out down to the last euro and be looking for what I was owed back in full, with a friend I would have said immediately "you owe me another "x" euro".

LegacyUser

Justleavingthisherebecause wrote: »

As a lecturer in one of the most well-known universities in Ireland, I'm a bit shocked at the presumption he's well off.

It can 15/20 years to get to senior lecturer status. Most full-time lecturers earn less than the national average industrial wage and a huge number (estimates as high as 60%) get €10,000
or less. Myself, and most of my colleagues earn so little we are supplemented by the social welfare system.

Check out Third Level Workplace Watch and get some facts straight.

I will say first that I agree that pay is lower than it should be for the skill levels of most people Universities. I myself work in an Irish university but in research only I'm not a lecturer.

However your figures are off. The starting salary for new lecturer (with a PhD which is required for most if not all) is around 33k give or take, this was much higher pre 2012. You also get a 1k increment every year. If you are earning 10k per year you are not full time and your post is trying to suggest you are. There is also no way 60% of lecturers are earning less than 10k per year as that is suggesting 60% of lecturers are not full time which is frankly nonsense.

retro:electro

Harsh111 wrote: »

I think people are being very harsh on the op. I would be a person who really hates being left out by even a 10er when there is events where people pay and get money back.

Even with my gf I would be adding up all costs from a meal or day out down to the last euro and be looking for what I was owed back in full, with a friend I would have said immediately "you owe me another "x" euro".

There is nothing more unattractive or off putting in a person than someone who is just downright mean with money.

SusieBlue

Harsh111 wrote: »

I think people are being very harsh on the op. I would be a person who really hates being left out by even a 10er when there is events where people pay and get money back.

Even with my gf I would be adding up all costs from a meal or day out down to the last euro and be looking for what I was owed back in full, with a friend I would have said immediately "you owe me another "x" euro".

I'm sorry but that sounds like an absolutely miserable way to live life.
What's a few euro between you and the person you love?

jenny smith

anna080 wrote: »

There is nothing more unattractive or off putting in a person than someone who is just downright mean with money.

i agree. i had a friend like that. ask him to go for a drink and he would not spend the text to say if he was not going. woild ignore it. i ignore his now.

i also think people are harsh on the op but he does come across as being a bit bitter when he says he cuts people off if he disagrees with them. he says he has qualifications but is in a badly paid job but could get a good one so not bothered with the land. Do not understand that or why he makes lunch instead of buying it. is that being tight? tight people really annoy me, my friend picks up one cent coins ffs. i know someone else who won't bring money out when going to work in case he would spend any

I think the op's friend is taking the piss a bit with the charity thing though

HardenendMan

I think you're getting harsh comments, OP. You sound like a decent person. You're friend is being insensitive in asking you for bits of cash here and there on a night out together.

But I am going to criticise your lack of assertiveness (constructively!). I have a very very good friend from school. He is not like your friend but he does take time to pay back money. I basically have to tell him outright he is taking the mick and shouldn't be spending what he owes me on luxuries. He might think I'm an ass at the time but it doesn't mean we stop being friends.

LegacyUser

Huge diversity of opinions on this anyway,seems it happens to other people with their friends also and they don't like it but just shrug it off because "sure that's the way he/she is". Others think it is taking the piss and not really on.
I suppose I've calmed down a bit now about it,I posted pretty soon after it happened but my annoyance has dissipated a little.

Wesser

Patthefaker wrote: »

I was at a football match recently with a friend of mine. I've known him for about twenty years now and even though we don't meet very often I suppose you could say we are good friends.<SNIP>

You said........I would say he views me negatively or as a lesser person......what evidence do you have for this? Why do you think this? What has he done to make you think this? If he views you negatively or as a lesser person then why would be go to a match with you and have drinks with you?

I think it far more likely that you view yoyrsf negatively and as s lesser person, and that you are projecting this on to him.i think you need to address this first. You need to be happy with yourself and confident in his presence.


In terms of the money..... I think it's very likely that even though he is a lecturer that his disposable income in vastly less than yours. And i do not think that college lecturers are paid what they used to be.

I also think that you do not need to pull him up on this money issue...... Like you asked us not to, I will not advise you to say to him ..... Hey! You owe me that money! .... But I will advise you to say next time when He asks for money ..... Just say no! A simple no! You are a man in your forties, when he asks for 2 euro....... No excuses or explainations needed. Just look him in the eye and say no!!!

Katgurl

I think you are having a massive overreaction OP. I have a friend who takes advantage of all of us consistently and now it's gotten to the stage where I find myself being mean in her company; ie I will never offer her a coffee or drink if I'm going to the bar. But from what you've said this is an isolated incident (the paying you back a few days later than agreed is not relevant - he paid you back).

If I gave someone a 2euro coin it wouldn't even register with me. Perhaps he made a mistake when he left you short. You had your opportunity there to say "oh no its 50 you owe me". But you didn't so I think you should stop dwelling on it. He possibly only had notes on him then or only a 50, hence asking you for the coin.

Really I would hate a friend like you who was so suspicious. In fact I have an ex-friend who once charged up to the bar and shouted at me that we were in a round and I wasn't to be only getting myself a drink. I never skip rounds and nobody could ever accuse me of being tight, it's a horrible trait and I abhor it. I told her I'd already ordered the round from the waitress but was standing at the bar because I'd decided after ordering to get a water for myself. I wouldn't have been bothered about her drunken outburst if it was standalone but it was a fairly accurate insight into how she always suspected the worst if there was any ambiguity in a situation.

You think this man is tight, you think he's smug, you have opinions on his personal finances that are frankly none of your business. I think you should end this friendship but not because of his behaviour, simply because you don't like him.

LegacyUser

anna080 wrote: »

There is nothing more unattractive or off putting in a person than someone who is just downright mean with money.

I don't see how expecting to get money you are owed as being mean with money.

It's not refusing to spend money or being stingy it's not allowing people to short change you even if they are doing it unintentially. I would keep tabs on things down to the last euro and that includes when it's me owing the money I always pay back everything down to 50 cent even at times.

Ursus Horribilis

Katgurl wrote: »

You think this man is tight, you think he's smug, you have opinions on his personal finances that are frankly none of your business. I think you should end this friendship but not because of his behaviour, simply because you don't like him.

This is the crux of the matter. If I had a "friend" who spoke about me in the way you have here, I'd be hurt and shocked.

I can't help but think that a lot of this is you projecting your own insecurities onto him. You're 40, single, living at home with your parents. Are you happy with the way your life has turned out? It's interesting that you said you feel inferior to him. Why? Because he has some of the things you don't?

JustAThought

I'm really shocked at the deep rage & anger of the OP - this is over, at best, e8 and a donation freely made to support a charity event? I appreciate that when money is tight it is difficult & embarassing to be expected to loan for the evening to support someone elses lack of cash or organisation - but the dwelling & overanalysis & hatred shown for such a small thing & to someone who is a friend & whom you go away on trips with & long evenings out with / its shocking. If he gives you back most of the money & you are a well paid adult then let it go. I can't imagine how awful the evening must have been for him with your anger at him flowing over - he misjudged his money & asked for a sub from a friend - he didn't steal from you while you were in the toilet or not give any back. It sounds like your perspectives on money are so diffrent that it has ruined your ability to share or spend a night out with him - or perhaps anyone? But if your plan B is to stay at home alone or just go out alone isn't the occasional overspill of money ok? I mean, I'm sure if you asked for a G&T instead of a pint, or needed a few euro for parking or a taxi, that he would give it to you? It evens out over time and its not a big deal / he is not dishonest or exploiting you - its an oversight. Perhaps as a married man he's so used to doling out a few euros here & there to kids & causes & sharing money with his wife that he just dons't calculate it as minutely and watch it as rigidly as you do. Maybe he is just more used to sharing & pooled resources that in the majority of cases are paid back within a day or so. In either case, No doubt in life another drinking buddy or hobby friend might also tip less or get you to pay for their bus or chips or taxi share at some stage in life & forget to or not pay the entirity back. Isn't a friendship worth more than e8 here or there?