Set stocking

Muckit

The merits of paddock grazing are well known. But l have to say I've witnessed a few top stockmen on my travels set stocking.

Knowing how difficult it is to manage grass at different times of the year, set stocking truly is a skill in it's own right. These lads would have good grass and yes some stem but very little.

Never wrestle with pigs

You just have to do it at times, when you have land scattered all over instead of one nice block all in one. I try to go for one week grazing to be around at the weekend to move them when I'm off work.

Ya you eat sum regrowth but you can't have everything. If I split them into smaller groups and split up fields I'd need 5 bulls. That's not going to pay.

Very hard to do all AI when working and I'd need a cattle pen in every field.

I says

After paddock grazing the last few years and delighted with the results I’m thinking with the weather and late spring set stocking might be the way to go this year.
Most of the fields here are average 5ac so I’m thinking of maybe 5 head to the5 acres and seeing how it goes( the topper will be busy).
A neighbour does it and he never seems to be short of grass doing it,and where we are there is no fear of a drought.Anyone else thinking this way for the summer ahead.Drystock on this farm.

amacca

I says wrote: »

After paddock grazing the last few years and delighted with the results I’m thinking with the weather and late spring set stocking might be the way to go this year.
Most of the fields here are average 5ac so I’m thinking of maybe 5 head to the5 acres and seeing how it goes( the topper will be busy).
A neighbour does it and he never seems to be short of grass doing it,and where we are there is no fear of a drought.Anyone else thinking this way for the summer ahead.Drystock on this farm.

I'm not anyway......I'm happy with paddocking for what I do. It has a lot of benefits and I can't see any extra grass for the same stocking rate per acre out of set stocking over paddocks.

But Id be curious to hear more reasoned arguments for set stocking.

Panch18

Set stocking is by far the best way to manage cattle in the spring and the autumn.

We will nearly always leave off the cattle in all fields and then mix them after a few weeks, couple of months even, once they have settled down. Again at the end of they year we divide them up and would graze nearly all the ground with a few cattle per field/paddock. it works a treat.

I don't think you are any better off spreading load of manure and rotational grazing for cattle - especially young store cattle. sometimes less is more and with cattle I think that is definatly the case - less cattle and spend less money

Say my name

Well I'd never go set stocking but then I'm dairying.
The constant adolescent/young adult leafy grass and the new drier ground of an untouched paddock for 3 weeks every day or few days plus less need to dose animals on a constant go of new ground and ability to take out surplus for hay/silage and just greater tonnage of grass grown on a paddock system. I'd never leave it.

Even the Americans are dividing up the range lands and calling it "mob grazing".
Eat the grass. Leave it. Eat the grass. Leave it.
More carbon sequestered. The grass is able to grow and do it's thing and not be grazed in it's infant stage all the time.
Microbes and fungi don't have to worry about constant trampling.
Plus quieter cattle in a paddock system.

Shure you'd be mad not to.

Dakota Dan

I used to set stock limousines on an outfarn back in the early 90's. They were bucket fed out of the dairy herd, pure mad b@stards one time I was taking a few to the factory and there was a narrow gateway into an old yard and no way would they go in there. I had to round up an army of 8 men and bring them up the road and into the yard. They used to grow like wildfire maybe because the farm was beside a quarry and the lime and dust used to blow over the farm.

Neddyusa

Panch18 wrote: »

Set stocking is by far the best way to manage cattle in the spring and the autumn.

We will nearly always leave off the cattle in all fields and then mix them after a few weeks, couple of months even, once they have settled down. Again at the end of they year we divide them up and would graze nearly all the ground with a few cattle per field/paddock. it works a treat.

I don't think you are any better off spreading load of manure and rotational grazing for cattle - especially young store cattle. sometimes less is more and with cattle I think that is definatly the case - less cattle and spend less money

I'd agree with you about the costs outweighing the benefits with dry cattle.

Of course if you already have the farm fenced in paddocks with water etc. then rotational grazing is the only job as you will grow a lot more grass.

But if its a case of having to spend a lot of money to put that paddocking infrastructure in place, you're not likely to see the financial returns with dry stock.

Studies in the past comparing set-stocking and rotational grazing found that at stocking rates below 1.25 cows/acre any benefits of rotational were minimal.

As Say my name says for any decently stocked dairy farm - set stocking would be daft. But for a lot of lowly stocked drystock farms it makes sense.

Who2

I cant believe lads are thinking of set stocking. i spent the last few years trying to set things up to get away from it. Paddocks arent expensive. a bit of fencing and a few drinkers arent that big an expense. cleaner better swards and youll grow twice the grass.

Bass Reeves

With paddocks I will be starting my second rotation next week. Any paddock that took a pounding will be well recovered at this stage. Cost of paddocks is not as much as lads think. No need for a roadway on drystock farms. Saw a lad make paddocks last autumn Water trough in middle of field four posts around it then electric fence string and pigtails to make paddocks. One trough will do four paddocks. This lads put in a few concrete troughs. He can take down the fences for slurry spreading or if he wants to cut or close 2-3 paddocks for silage.

Other huge advantage is herding. Cattle cop on fast when the gap is open the are being moved. They run out of it by themselves in a minute or two. No gathering a load of neighbours to get a few crazy bullocks out of a 10 acre field. It makes handling cattle a one man job. Have a herd test this weekend will get the cattle in fairly fast even the bunch left out Tuesday evening.

blue5000

Normally I would condone set stocking. But this Spring is not a normal year so I opened all the gates in the paddocks and let cows and calves roam where they wanted. I fed hay in a ring feeder near a wood, where they had shelter.

Wetter land away from this block still has to be grazed. The disadvantage is that all the grass on the home farm will probably grow at the same pace, so I'll probably (hopefully:rolleyes:) have to wrap a few stronger paddocks in mid May.

Weanlings were off on another block by the way. It worked for me this year anyway, the only bit damaged is near where I fed the hay.

Panch18

blue5000 wrote: »

Normally I would condone set stocking. But this Spring is not a normal year so I opened all the gates in the paddocks and let cows and calves roam where they wanted. I fed hay in a ring feeder near a wood, where they had shelter.

Wetter land away from this block still has to be grazed. The disadvantage is that all the grass on the home farm will probably grow at the same pace, so I'll probably (hopefully:rolleyes:) have to wrap a few stronger paddocks in mid May.

Weanlings were off on another block by the way. It worked for me this year anyway, the only bit damaged is near where I fed the hay.

i think this highlights exactly the advantage of set stocking - in a paddock system in bad weather cattle are never settled, the idea of being moved makes them anxious and they walk a lot more than they do in a set stocking system, and in bad weather walking means damage to paddocks and walking grass into the ground.

There is no doubt in my mind, and this is from experience, that it is much easier to manage cattle in a set stocking system in bad conditions

Bass Reeves

Panch18 wrote: »

i think this highlights exactly the advantage of set stocking - in a paddock system in bad weather cattle are never settled, the idea of being moved makes them anxious and they walk a lot more than they do in a set stocking system, and in bad weather walking means damage to paddocks and walking grass into the ground.

There is no doubt in my mind, and this is from experience, that it is much easier to manage cattle in a set stocking system in bad conditions

Damage si only done if you let them there 24-48 hours after they run pout of grass. But witha set stocked system cattle will not thrive as much as in rotational grazing. Grass eith gets too strong or cattle have not got enough. As well even at optium stocking levels you will not carry as must as rotational grazing.

yewtree

I had a sixty acre out block rented for 10 years. At the start we did the whole set stocking thing with replacement heifers.
Could never get the heifers to put on weight during the summer and the grass was always a mess.
Spent a few hundred on fencing to put the farm into 10 divisions and the farm probably doubled in output. Honestly can't see any advantage to set stocking.

Muckit

No one is saying you will carry the same number of cattle or have the same quality of grass. But would u have less work and more time?

lads dissing fellas with 80 cattle on 300 acres. Personally l'd see a lot of merit in it. You see the american cowboys that dose em and let off beef cattle on big tracks of land. Herd everyday? They mightn't look at them for months. Maybe this is the way we should be going. Is efficency paying the piper sufficiently or are we the flutes?

Mooooo

Muckit wrote: »

No one is saying you will carry the same number of cattle or have the same quality of grass. But would u have less work and more time?

lads dissing fellas with 80 cattle on 300 acres. Personally l'd see a lot of merit in it. You see the american cowboys that dose em and let off beef cattle on big tracks of land. Herd everyday? They mightn't look at them for months. Maybe this is the way we should be going. Is efficency paying the piper sufficiently or are we the flutes?

Depends on acreage and what one needs from it. If you need the farm to put food on the table you need the out put but if you have an off farm job it may suit

Muckit

Mooooo wrote: »

Depends on acreage and what one needs from it. If you need the farm to put food on the table you need the out put but if you have an off farm job it may suit

God help anyone trying to put food on the table from beef only. God help them. But ld be thinking that land rental prices went to pot and enough of a track of land could be got perhaps it could be the way to go.

Put simply, nstead of upping numbers and fertiliser/meal nputs, I'd be tracking down cheap land to rent with entitlements.

tanko

Muckit wrote: »

No one is saying you will carry the same number of cattle or have the same quality of grass. But would u have less work and more time?

lads dissing fellas with 80 cattle on 300 acres. Personally l'd see a lot of merit in it. You see the american cowboys that dose em and let off beef cattle on big tracks of land. Herd everyday? They mightn't look at them for months. Maybe this is the way we should be going. Is efficency paying the piper sufficiently or are we the flutes?

No you’re wrong, every farmer has to max out the stocking rate on their farm so that we produce mountains of beef and lakes of white gold that there isnt a viable market for. Farmers have to keep increasing production levels high so that the price we receive for what we sell stays on the floor.

Bass Reeves

Rotational grazing has nothing to do with adding cost into a system. It can actually reduce cost. Earlier turn out can save a euro a day or more. Extra gain may mean less feeding, earlier slaughter or extra weight at sale/slaughter. Cattle outside are gaining 1-1.5kgs/day as opposed a few hundred grams inside unless on artion and silage maybe costing 1.5/day.

What kills farming is production that is done with ration. At best with beef it is break even however you could be losing a euro or more/day feeding cattle over there weight gain. This is what f@@kups the beef game. As well extensive production has risks associated with disease and costs involved in vaccination. Very few farmers set stocked will get the same weight gain as lads that are rotational grazing

Muckit

You've the blinkers on again Bass. All goes back to getting paid for your money and time invested if thinking with a business rather than a farmer's head.

If u had scale (enough 'bad' land) and ran cattle on ground with little time or money invested, it could possiblly be another to make a few pound. Lads talking about 80 on 300 acres. Say you trebled that and had 240 cattle on near 1000 acres with entitlements. With limited intervention, low rents etc. Have enough land in each block so not to have to be moving stock during the grazing season. Drop them off the lorry in spring, up the ramp in autumn. Herd once a week on a sat. This is a model ld be interested in seeing if it could work or not. Things have to change.

charolais0153

Muckit wrote: »

You've the blinkers on again Bass. All goes back to getting paid for your money and time invested if thinking with a business rather than a farmer's head.

If u had scale (enough 'bad' land) and ran cattle on ground with little time or money invested, it could possiblly be another to make a few pound. Lads talking about 80 on 300 acres. Say you trebled that and had 240 cattle on near 1000 acres with entitlements. With limited intervention, low rents etc. Have enough land in each block so not to have to be moving stock during the grazing season. Drop them off the lorry in spring, up the ramp in autumn. Herd once a week on a sat. This is a model ld be interested in seeing if it could work or not. Things have to change.

The only thing that has to change is the mindset of farmers and their need for handouts and subsidys.

mayota

charolais0153 wrote: »

The only thing that has to change is the mindset of farmers and their need for handouts and subsidys.

No. What Muckit is saying is we’re not getting adequately rewarded for producing quality beef so why be busy fools when we have well paid off farm jobs and wives and young families to spend time with.

I says

Well I’m not buying in this year whatever’s here now will be on the hook by October and depending on silage harvest this summer I mightn’t even bother my hole filling the shed next winter.

Neddyusa

Muckit wrote: »

You've the blinkers on again Bass. All goes back to getting paid for your money and time invested if thinking with a business rather than a farmer's head.

If u had scale (enough 'bad' land) and ran cattle on ground with little time or money invested, it could possiblly be another to make a few pound. Lads talking about 80 on 300 acres. Say you trebled that and had 240 cattle on near 1000 acres with entitlements. With limited intervention, low rents etc. Have enough land in each block so not to have to be moving stock during the grazing season. Drop them off the lorry in spring, up the ramp in autumn. Herd once a week on a sat. This is a model ld be interested in seeing if it could work or not. Things have to change.

You're on the right track there Muckit.
The only farmer I know within 20 miles of here making any sort of decent income from beef cattle runs a system just like you describe.

Nearly all stripper cows, bought in, set stocked on blocks of middling-to-good grassland and killed off grass. Not a blade of silage made either - all bought in. Cow numbers are simply increased in summer to match growth. Grass never gets much above 8-10 cm and quality is always good. This guy is not a bad grass farmer either, he often has grass in spring when neighbouring dairy farmers haven't got grazing yet.

As you say its about the return on investment. No-one doubts the return on capital and management input will be achieved by rotational grazing in dairying.
But the financial margins in beef - no matter what way its done - leave very few $ to cover capital and labour costs.

Say my name

You won't do all that craic on leased ground or bought land and get a return on investment from beef.
You will on inherited ground and as ye say muckit a big spread.

memorystick

Say my name wrote: »

You won't do all that craic on leased ground or bought land and get a return on investment from beef.
You will on inherited ground and as ye say muckit a big spread.

Shure the acre of grass and the bullock grazing it won't know if it's leased, bought or inherited. But he will thank you for all the lovely fresh grass and for a longer season. Weight gain is the currency of good management.

Say my name

memorystick wrote: »

Shure the acre of grass and the bullock grazing it won't know if it's leased, bought or inherited. But he will thank you for all the lovely fresh grass and for a longer season. Weight gain is the currency of good management.

That's hobby farming.

You might as well buy lottery tickets then at least there's a chance of a win.
Or open a zoo.

Muckit makes a good point except the farmers that I know of who have operated this system in the past did so on inherited land with a big spread and wouldn't have been the greatest on animal management. One not dehorning calves at all and young bulls bulling mother's and then fences being neglected and mostly they became a mess with wild cattle.
I just think they didn't want to farm in the first place and thought this was the easiest way out.

It's a free country but my experience of seeing this carry on and what it can lead to is not great.

charolais0153

Neddyusa wrote: »

You're on the right track there Muckit.
The only farmer I know within 20 miles of here making any sort of decent income from beef cattle runs a system just like you describe.

Nearly all stripper cows, bought in, set stocked on blocks of middling-to-good grassland and killed off grass. Not a blade of silage made either - all bought in. Cow numbers are simply increased in summer to match growth. Grass never gets much above 8-10 cm and quality is always good. This guy is not a bad grass farmer either, he often has grass in spring when neighbouring dairy farmers haven't got grazing yet.

As you say its about the return on investment. No-one doubts the return on capital and management input will be achieved by rotational grazing in dairying.
But the financial margins in beef - no matter what way its done - leave very few $ to cover capital and labour costs.

Are the cows in the same field for the whole summer?

Cavanjack

Neddyusa wrote: »

You're on the right track there Muckit.
The only farmer I know within 20 miles of here making any sort of decent income from beef cattle runs a system just like you describe.

Nearly all stripper cows, bought in, set stocked on blocks of middling-to-good grassland and killed off grass. Not a blade of silage made either - all bought in. Cow numbers are simply increased in summer to match growth. Grass never gets much above 8-10 cm and quality is always good. This guy is not a bad grass farmer either, he often has grass in spring when neighbouring dairy farmers haven't got grazing yet.

As you say its about the return on investment. No-one doubts the return on capital and management input will be achieved by rotational grazing in dairying.
But the financial margins in beef - no matter what way its done - leave very few $ to cover capital and labour costs.

How do ya know he is making money or how do You know that nobody else is making anything?

Cavanjack

Muckit wrote: »

You've the blinkers on again Bass. All goes back to getting paid for your money and time invested if thinking with a business rather than a farmer's head.

If u had scale (enough 'bad' land) and ran cattle on ground with little time or money invested, it could possiblly be another to make a few pound. Lads talking about 80 on 300 acres. Say you trebled that and had 240 cattle on near 1000 acres with entitlements. With limited intervention, low rents etc. Have enough land in each block so not to have to be moving stock during the grazing season. Drop them off the lorry in spring, up the ramp in autumn. Herd once a week on a sat. This is a model ld be interested in seeing if it could work or not. Things have to change.

If I had 1000 acres I'd have it split up and have 1000 head on it. Sure what would the neighbours say if it was only 1/4 stocked!

Neddyusa

Cavanjack wrote: »

How do ya know he is making money or how do You know that nobody else is making anything?

Do the books for a living.

Cavanjack

Neddyusa wrote: »

Do the books for a living.

You win that argument so