Roundup could be gone.

Pacoa

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/not-enough-support-for-extension-of-glyphosate-approval-210974

Waffletraktor

Ban imports that don't meet same criteria, itwill be back by Autumn. This is the future as more people move away from rural areas, what aboutery rather than facts. Purely to prevent gm

Nekarsulm

If the UK exit, I suppose it's possible it would be still on sale there?

Of course, what's the odds the Irish Customs will then be back searching cars in case you have bought a battery or some such in the North?

Bass Reeves

In the indo today it reported that the EU has failed to renew its licience

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/weedkiller-banwill-be-disaster-for-irish-farming-34777604.html

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/06/recall-of-monsantos-roundup-likely-as-eu-refuses-limited-use-of-glyphosate

This means that from if no solution is found by July this year it will be totally banded from end of 2018. Real issue seem to be the pre spraying of cereals before harvest. However why it failed to get relicenced was that the larger states Germany, France and Italy abstained there fore this prevented it getting 55% population support.

Muckit

Good enough for people. Spraying around with it willy nilly and not a spray mask to be seen. Big brown strips everywhere along road sides and yards and sure it looks good apparently.

Yard here full of horsetail cos the mother won't stop using it. She will now.

MickeyShtyles

Muckit wrote: »

Good enough for people. Spraying around with it willy nilly and not a spray mask to be seen. Big brown strips everywhere along road sides and yards and sure it looks good apparently.

Yard here full of horsetail cos the mother won't stop using it. She will now.

Roundup won't kill mares tail.....

Muckit

That's what I'm saying. Its a soil conditioner so only grows where a lot of roundup has been sprayed...

XR3i

probably one of the worse chemical/physical product

Waffletraktor

Muckit wrote: »

Good enough for people. Spraying around with it willy nilly and not a spray mask to be seen. Big brown strips everywhere along road sides and yards and sure it looks good apparently.

Yard here full of horsetail cos the mother won't stop using it. She will now.

Depends, if they remove glyphosate (tallow-amine adjuvant that's doing the damage) on a bunch of pseudo science what aboutery and not
Is tending to their own experts expect every single chemical renewal. Most fungicides will be off the market if this was about removing toxic chemical vs sticking it to big business never mind bayer are about buying Monsanto to counter the chem- China bid for syngenta.
Simply ban your round up ready soya and imports that don't meet standards required the tillage industry has all you stock farms over a barrel asking you want it half full or totally full for proteins.
A paper that gets pointed to for damage to environment was done on earth worms in potted plants at a rate of 33l/ha of generic 360g when max individual dose is 4l/ha at said rate and that's science.... Ffs.

I guess they will ban the pill birth control for the damage that's doing due to sub standard sewage controls etc etc.

Waffletraktor

XR3i wrote: »

probably one of the worse chemical/physical product

Actually one of the least toxic, but hey don't let facts get in the way of a great story.

_Brian

Muckit wrote: »

Good enough for people. Spraying around with it willy nilly and not a spray mask to be seen. Big brown strips everywhere along road sides and yards and sure it looks good apparently.

Yard here full of horsetail cos the mother won't stop using it. She will now.

Agree, why on earth do people insist on spraying 10yards each side of their entry ?? It looks awful and like you say just grows a bunch of serious weeds.

Roundup has been seriously abused, and not just by farmers.

Bass Reeves

_Brian wrote: »

Agree, why on earth do people insist on spraying 10yards each side of their entry ?? It looks awful and like you say just grows a bunch of serious weeds.

Roundup has been seriously abused, and not just by farmers.

Because these people think that by spraying with roundup that nothing will grow there ever again. Instead the weed with the stronger roots recover faster (Docks etc). Instead people should spray with a selective weed killer to kill the majority of weeds and cut the grass with a strimer. Nature abhors a vacum

_Brian

It looks just shocking, really coming visable this week that people are out and about "tidying up" round their places.
One farm I pass regularly have sprayed all their verges along the road and it looks like there's been a nuclear accident.

amacca

I don't like it or anything but one lad here does it either side of a nearly blind t-junction and in fairness it does improve visibility/makes it safer to turn out on to the road.

He'd have to strim 7/8 times during spring or summer otherwise so I suppose he's taking the easy way out.

freedominacup

_Brian wrote: »

Roundup has been seriously abused, and not just by farmers.

Farm organizations across the EU have to just campaign for all of the exemptions to be removed from the ban. From my reading it is only being banned for farm use. Govt services, transport companies and domestic use is fine. If we can't have it no one should be using it. Same sort of thing happened with atrazinze almost twenty years ago. Transport companies were poisoning watercourse with run off but farmers ended up without the product.

freedominacup

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Depends, if they remove glyphosate (tallow-amine adjuvant that's doing the damage) on a bunch of pseudo science what aboutery


A paper that gets pointed to for damage to environment was done on earth worms in potted plants at a rate of 33l/ha of generic 360g when max individual dose is 4l/ha at said rate and that's science.... Ffs.

I guess they will ban the pill birth control for the damage that's doing due to sub standard sewage controls etc etc.

I showed a similar paper on a link between roundup and cancer and on a link between roundup and birth defects to my sister. Her of the science phd. "Fcuking microbiologists, if they'd given the rats folic acid at those rates it'd cause birth defects" was the reply. What they do is not highly regarded by many scientific disciplines but they are having a huge influence on so much of our lives.

Waffletraktor

freedominacup wrote: »

Farm organizations across the EU have to just campaign for all of the exemptions to be removed from the ban. From my reading it is only being banned for farm use. Govt services, transport companies and domestic use is fine. If we can't have it no one should be using it. Same sort of thing happened with atrazinze almost twenty years ago. Transport companies were poisoning watercourse with run off but farmers ended up without the product.

If you read the end of the guardian it has a luftie green Mep ranting how the fudging experts should keep their nose out of the parliments work. Ffs how is that any sort of 'democracy' when 'elected' officials are soo biased they will not listen to the facts and rather implement their own regressive reforms. As more people move away from the hard face of food production to urban this will only get much worse, until there is a food shortage. But then the Eu are masters of double stahl dares aren't they.
The Efsa have even had a bomb posted in for not ruling in some people's favour over this.

Waffletraktor

freedominacup wrote: »

I showed a similar paper on a link between roundup and cancer and on a link between roundup and birth defects to my sister. Her of the science phd. "Fcuking microbiologists, if they'd given the rats folic acid at those rates it'd cause birth defects". What they do is not highly regarded by many scientific disciplines but they are having a huge influence on so much of our lives.

My partner is doing a PhD currently on azole fungicides and residues, it would open your eyes up to the biased results depending on who is paying for research.

freedominacup

Waffletraktor wrote: »

My partner is doing a PhD currently on azole fungicides and residues, it would open your eyes up to the biased results depending on who is paying for research.

What will really open her eyes is when she gets a gig with and nda to be signed along with the employment contract and her project is shut down two thirds of the way through because certain factions within the industry don't like where the preliminary results are heading.

_Brian

Waffletraktor wrote: »

My partner is doing a PhD currently on azole fungicides and residues, it would open your eyes up to the biased results depending on who is paying for research.

He who pays the piper calls the tune, it's the way research works, it's rarely impartial, someone has to pay and the party paying usually get what they want, report the portions that suit them or stop the research before its completed.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Waffletraktor wrote: »

If you read the end of the guardian it has a luftie green Mep ranting how the fudging experts should keep their nose out of the parliments work. Ffs how is that any sort of 'democracy' when 'elected' officials are soo biased they will not listen to the facts and rather implement their own regressive reforms. As more people move away from the hard face of food production to urban this will only get much worse, until there is a food shortage. But then the Eu are masters of double stahl dares aren't they.
The Efsa have even had a bomb posted in for not ruling in some people's favour over this.

Tbh, this is probably the thin end of the wedge. They will stay going until whatever the fad-of-the-day rules is acceptable and will rest easy.

The only problem is that they will be expecting food to be on the tables everyday with food producers hands tied behind their backs.

Within 20 years, they will have to let these products be used because of food shortages/high prices and farmers will be blamed for that too:rolleyes:

I think it's funny how soon after millions of people starved in Northern Europe in 1944-45 because of food shortages that people have forgotten hunger and take for granted that food will be on the shelves everyday and it will be affordable.

_Brian

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Tbh, this is probably the thin end of the wedge. They will stay going until whatever the fad-of-the-day rules is acceptable and will rest easy.

The only problem is that they will be expecting food to be on the tables everyday with food producers hands tied behind their backs.

Within 20 years, they will have to let these products be used because of food shortages/high prices and farmers will be blamed for that too:rolleyes:

I think it's funny how soon after millions of people starved in Northern Europe in 1944-45 because of food shortages that people have forgotten hunger and take for granted that food will be on the shelves everyday and it will be affordable.

Consumers are awfully disconnected from their food sources and I can see it getting worse as time goes on.

Maybe premiums and subs paid for organic farming will be a serious priority in the future, that and increased food prices.

Food is too cheap at the moment and all that does it's set the expectation of cheaper foods and that the trend of cheaper can continue when the opposite is the truth. The horsement scandal is a perfect example, did consumers really think they were buying a 12 pack of well produced burgers for €0.99c, really.

People buy, consume and waste far too much food. Maybe if it were more expensive it would be respected, people would have less money for the crap they buy and everyone would be better off.

If the wasteful consumption of food stopped then the intensity of farming could relax to more organic methods. I can't quite a source as I'm on the phone but we already produce enough foods to feed 10Bln people, yet with a world population of less than 8Bln we have nations starving while some walk round like fatted cattle because they consume so much. Increased food prices would reduce consumption.

yosemitesam1

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Because these people think that by spraying with roundup that nothing will grow there ever again. Instead the weed with the stronger roots recover faster (Docks etc). Instead people should spray with a selective weed killer to kill the majority of weeds and cut the grass with a strimer. Nature abhors a vacum

Much better to leave it alone altogether, hard to beat a good ditch for keeping wildlife ticking over

ganmo

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I think it's funny how soon after millions of people starved in Northern Europe in 1944-45 because of food shortages that people have forgotten hunger and take for granted that food will be on the shelves everyday and it will be affordable.

that was the founding principle of cap, to secure europe's food supply. Cap has been bastardised through trade agreements etc to what we have now.
Irish ppl will never go hungry, as long as we don't hit 12mil+ population, the english though are so dependant on imported food its nuts.

getting back ontopic, are they serious about only banning it for agri use, woodies will still be selling this 'potential carcinogen' to Jo Public!? how is that logical?

freedominacup

ganmo wrote: »

that was the founding principle of cap, to secure europe's food supply. Cap has been bastardised through trade agreements etc to what we have now.
Irish ppl will never go hungry, as long as we don't hit 12mil+ population, the english though are so dependant on imported food its nuts.

getting back ontopic, are they serious about only banning it for agri use, woodies will still be selling this 'potential carcinogen' to Jo Public!? how is that logical?

I'm regards to EU regulations in most areas logic left the building quite a while ago.

rangler1

ganmo wrote: »

that was the founding principle of cap, to secure europe's food supply. Cap has been bastardised through trade agreements etc to what we have now.
Irish ppl will never go hungry, as long as we don't hit 12mil+ population, the english though are so dependant on imported food its nuts.

getting back ontopic, are they serious about only banning it for agri use, woodies will still be selling this 'potential carcinogen' to Jo Public!? how is that logical?

Cobalt sulphate is supposed to contain the same 'potential carcinogen' as roundup...will that be banned as well, I heard lately that it was going to be POM, so there's some substance in that rumour.
Mind you, I haven't heard any of my lambs complaining of cancer though

Insp. Harry Callahan

Leather jacket spray taken off the market this year also
Buying sprays in the future could be like the drug trade, a guy in a van pulling up at night in a quiet street in local village once a month with a supply of off the market gear

ganmo

rangler1 wrote: »

Cobalt sulphate is supposed to contain the same 'potential carcinogen' as roundup...will that be banned as well, I heard lately that it was going to be POM, so there's some substance in that rumour.
Mind you, I haven't heard any of my lambs complaining of cancer though

It's all cobalt sources, by right it should have the skull and cross bones warning on it.

yosemitesam1

Insp. Harry Callahan wrote: »

Leather jacket spray taken off the market this year also
Buying sprays in the future could be like the drug trade, a guy in a van pulling up at night in a quiet street in local village once a month with a supply of off the market gear

In fairness to them dursban is fairly terrible stuff but you'd wonder how that lasted so long compared to others

Insp. Harry Callahan

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

In fairness to them dursban is fairly terrible stuff but you'd wonder how that lasted so long compared to others

Ah yeah I heard that it was very bad for the health, not until I had been using it for years though ðŸ˜. Glad to see it gone

Can see Formalin acid that is used for foot baths going off the market soon also

Waffletraktor

I bet this guy is glad it's around for another 18 months at least. I suspect they will need lots of it ooooohhh dear!
(sent via a friend, of his neighbours!)

darragh_haven

Waffletraktor wrote: »

I bet this guy is glad it's around for another 18 months at least. I suspect they will need lots of it ooooohhh dear!
(sent via a friend, of his neighbours!)

Thats some infestation. It really is fighting a loosing battle

blue5000

freedominacup wrote: »

Farm organizations across the EU have to just campaign for all of the exemptions to be removed from the ban. From my reading it is only being banned for farm use. Govt services, transport companies and domestic use is fine. If we can't have it no one should be using it. Same sort of thing happened with atrazinze almost twenty years ago. Transport companies were poisoning watercourse with run off but farmers ended up without the product.

I used to grow maize, maize growers in UK said the problem with atrazine in ground water was caused by british rail blanket spraying it along railway lines on bare stone where there was no soil to break it down before it went to ground water.

Part of the problem with EU is that none of the MEPs in power now are old enough to remember hunger after WW2.

_Brian

blue5000 wrote: »

I used to grow maize, maize growers in UK said the problem with atrazine in ground water was caused by british rail blanket spraying it along railway lines on bare stone where there was no soil to break it down before it went to ground water.

Part of the problem with EU is that none of the MEPs in power now are old enough to remember hunger after WW2.

I understand your point.
But I disagree with growing more and more food no matter the costs nor ramifications. Balance is what's required on all sides,

Waffletraktor

_Brian wrote: »

I understand your point.
But I disagree with growing more and more food no matter the costs nor ramifications. Balance is what's required on all sides,

Have no issues of good science deciding things, but the most scrutinised ag chem of the modern era that saves sooooo much extra everything but is being overused. Max dose limit per calender year and 6months out from produce due to enter food/feed chain would not be an issue. There is work being done on a diquat esq active in form of a natural high strenght acid to attack cell wall and cause it to dry out and ripen crops faster for harvest.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Have no issues of good science deciding things, but the most scrutinised ag chem of the modern era that saves sooooo much extra everything but is being overused. Max dose limit per calender year and 6months out from produce due to enter food/feed chain would not be an issue. There is work being done on a diquat esq active in form of a natural high strenght acid to attack cell wall and cause it to dry out and ripen crops faster for harvest.

Weren't Paraquat and Diquat banned for the dangers they posed?

I remember a few cases of poisonings with those two chemicals.

blue5000

_Brian wrote: »

I understand your point.
But I disagree with growing more and more food no matter the costs nor ramifications. Balance is what's required on all sides,

What I meant was if people knew what it felt to be hungry, food and where it comes from might be appreciated a bit more.

ganmo

blue5000 wrote: »

What I meant was if people knew what it felt to be hungry, food and where it comes from might be appreciated a bit more.

i wonder how much the mechanisation of farms has reduced that appreciation also

bogman_bass

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Weren't Paraquat and Diquat banned for the dangers they posed?

I remember a few cases of poisonings with those two chemicals.

Paraquat is banned. That was nasty stuff

Suckler

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Weren't Paraquat and Diquat banned for the dangers they posed?

I remember a few cases of poisonings with those two chemicals.

Paraquat was a known suicide option all too often unfortunately.

Capercaillie

Waffletraktor wrote: »

I bet this guy is glad it's around for another 18 months at least. I suspect they will need lots of it ooooohhh dear!
(sent via a friend, of his neighbours!)

scutch grass in wheat???

Waffletraktor

Capercaillie wrote: »

scutch grass in wheat???

That's blackgrass at the worst of the worst levels. Personal approach would be flail the crop weeks ago, then 12 months of discing and flailing then glyphosate and grass down for about 10-20 years.
http://uk.dowagro.com/problem/blackgrass/

alps

Is it time to stockpile....?

Waffletraktor

alps wrote: »

Is it time to stockpile....?

No, there's a few molecules already on patent that was too expensive to compete with cheap glyphos. It just gets ever more expensive for European farmers to compete.
-Ammonium nonanoate etc..

alps

Waffletraktor wrote: »

No, there's a few molecules already on patent that was too expensive to compete with cheap glyphos. It just gets ever more expensive for European farmers to compete.
-Ammonium nonanoate etc..

Waffle, are you saying that alternatives exist currently?

The part time boy

I actally have a big problem with grain and spuds been sprayed with round up pre harvest .

I love to see that banned to be honest

Keepgrowing

The part time boy wrote: »

I actally have a big problem with grain and spuds been sprayed with round up pre harvest .

I love to see that banned to be honest

Why would you love to see it banned?

Waffletraktor

alps wrote: »

Waffle, are you saying that alternatives exist currently?

Yep, it's just the cost of getting to market these days requires being a multi billion euro corporation to fund it and as such they will wait until they can earn their pound of flesh for them.

Waffletraktor

The part time boy wrote: »

I actally have a big problem with grain and spuds been sprayed with round up pre harvest .

I love to see that banned to be honest

Can you give one paper that's been peer reviewed to categorically say it's bad? Or just the usual centre left euro greenie project fear BS. And lets not forget we're talking about one of the most scrutinised chems ever here.

From trial data coming out of the SW, wheat production with current agronomic practices are soon entering their final decade in a moist maritime environment due to Septoria Nodorum..... Unless you can get a programme of 7-10 day multi sit actives through?
Of course they'll do deals to import stuff produced using glyphos, it's how the Eu works isn't it.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Has anyone else noticed that roundup appears to have lost it's potency in recent years. It could be the case that it's the strongest weeds coming back but even in places where I never had Ivy previously and I spray with roundup it just turns the leaves brown whereas in the past it would have killed in completely. Same when I spray the driveway, the weeds only seem to wilt but don't die.

Have they changed the formula in recent years?

Capercaillie

Lana Warm Semifinalist wrote: »

Has anyone else noticed that roundup appears to have lost it's potency in recent years. It could be the case that it's the strongest weeds coming back but even in places where I never had Ivy previously and I spray with roundup it just turns the leaves brown whereas in the past it would have killed in completely. Same when I spray the driveway, the weeds only seem to wilt but don't die.

Have they changed the formula in recent years?

Could be resistance, often due to overuse. Similar to overuse with antibiotics/anthelmintics.