Now, I know driving on the N7 is bad...

savagethegoat

...but last night around 10pm a young man in an Astra joined the 3 lane road behind me and went straight to the outside lane and stayed there without gaining on me all the way in to the 80k limit, when I slowed and he passed me. Several miles. Noone in the middle lane at all and almost no one in lane 1 either. Just what is the point and why don't these people have any pride in their driving?

(I was spot on the speed limit all the way)

whomitconcerns

every day occurance.......unfortunately

savagethegoat

I'm not usually on the road late in the evening. I can understand (a tiny bit) people hogging overtaking lanes when it's busy, but why would you do it when the road is more or less empty? People cruising in the middle lane last night was almost the norm! What's wrong with them?

Roosterreid

As a daily driver on the N7, I have seen the circumstance you have seen on numerous occasions. Between this and middle lane hoggers, the road can be quite a free for all at times.

12Phase

I'm not totally familiar with the current test and driver education model but I learned to to drive when I was 17 under the previous regime and I didn't do *any* motorway or dual carriageway driving or even hear them mentioned. The entire focus was on something you should probably never do anyway: reversing around corners.

The majority of Irish drivers have never been formally educated on multiple lane driving and there are are couple of cohorts that have had no driver education at all either due to that test amnesty back in the 70s? or older drivers who predate the test.

It's not surprising we have so many clueless drivers around. A lot is just assumed to be learned by osmosis or something.

I would suspect a large % of drivers have never even heard of the concept of keeping to the left lane other than when overtaking.

Honestly, given the poor level of driver education here it's actually impressive we gave one of the lowest rate of fatal accidents in the developed world. It's probably down to everyone driving so slowly and hesitantly though...

If you've spent any time living somewhere more continental, Irish drivers are like an entire nation of "Sunday drivers".

Light goes green : check mirrors, check makeup, adjust glasses, check car manual for location of gear lever, think about maybe taking off the handbrake ...
Everyone sits there patiently not beeping ....

Likewise if you tried blocking an overtaking lane in most continental countries you'd have a BMW on your bumper holding down the horn and flashing you within about 2 min

Irish drivers will just look irritated and politely undertake...

stoplooklisten

Yep see it the whole time, Why they do it? Anyone's guess! The only driver education you need to know is keep left unless overtaking, simple really!

savagethegoat

I think reference to not being allowed on the motorway pre-test is off the mark. It's the same in the Uk and British drivers don't behave in this way in general.

maximoose

See it all the time on the N7, especially at Junction 9 at Naas after the M7 ends. People going into lanes 2/3 straight from the on-ramp for no reason whatsoever - no traffic in lane 1.

Caliden

Lack of enforcement is the issue.

It's not the fault of the Gardai either, their numbers are dwindling and they're not recruiting enough. Unless they recruit more quickly there's going to be a shortage when a chunk of them are forced to take retirement.

Some can already retire but are working on. The clock is ticking and there is some serious heel dragging going on.

12Phase

savagethegoat wrote: »

I think reference to not being allowed on the motorway pre-test is off the mark. It's the same in the Uk and British drivers don't behave in this way in general.

Being not allowed on motorway is one thing but they're regularly on dual carriageway and also well alerted to the rules in the UK and have been for much longer.

My test and education made basically no mention at all of any of those rules. If I happened to stumble across them in the rules of the road, that was because I chose to look.

A lot of drivers here are simply clueless. I've spoken to people who has no idea that the "fast lane" wasn't to be used unless overtaking.

I've had a conversation with someone who had literally no idea what yield actually meant.

Nobody seems to have any idea of how the priorities work at junctions either. The whole thing is done by waiving a finger behind a windscreen (without even awareness that you often can't actually see a small hand gesture through the window anyway).

People also constantly don't indicate or indicate for the wrong exit on roundabouts then get all shocked when someone drives out in front of them.

Happened me the other day in Cork City. Busy roundabout. Moron indicates left for 1st exit and continues on to exit 3, indicating left the whole time blasting the horn at non-mind-reading drivers who believed his indicator wasn't simply decorative.

12Phase

Caliden wrote: »

Lack of enforcement is the issue.

It's not the fault of the Gardai either, their numbers are dwindling and they're not recruiting enough. Unless they recruit more quickly there's going to be a shortage when a chunk of them are forced to take retirement.

Some can already retire but are working on. The clock is ticking and there is some serious heel dragging going on.

Enforcement is lacking but at the same time it's really the RSA's job to educate drivers and create awareness of rules with some proper public campaigns.

For example display this message on the VMS signs for a few months.

Stay in left lane unless overtaking
<

---

stoneill

Lack of enforcement and ignorance.
Bad driving is not stomped out so it spreads and becomes the norm.

When I had my US licence the first thing in the DMV handbook would tell you is that your licence is a privilege not a right.
It would do well to remind a lot of people here the same thing.

12Phase

Based on the driving I see around Boston, that message hasn't sunk in either!

Sh1tbag OToole

12Phase wrote: »

If you've spent any time living somewhere more continental, Irish drivers are like an entire nation of "Sunday drivers".

Light goes green : check mirrors, check makeup, adjust glasses, check car manual for location of gear lever, think about maybe taking off the handbrake ...
Everyone sits there patiently not beeping ....

Likewise if you tried blocking an overtaking lane in most continental countries you'd have a BMW on your bumper holding down the horn and flashing you within about 2 min

Irish drivers will just look irritated and politely undertake...

Most of these supposed differences between Irish and "continental" drivers are a myth. I don't know where you've been driving but I don't notice people being any faster to drive off from a green light or being any more hot-headed towards lane huggers abroad than over here

Seth Brundle

I came off the M50 (N) onto the N4 westbound recently behind a driving school car one night about three weeks ago.
Guess which lane they went straight for?

12Phase

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Most of these supposed differences between Irish and "continental" drivers are a myth. I don't know where you've been driving but I don't notice people being any faster to drive off from a green light or being any more hot-headed towards lane huggers abroad than over here

Well, having driven in France, Belgium, Italy and Germany ... none of those places have much tolerance for any kind of lane hogging.

I got sick to death of Belgium with the horn blowing. There were roadworks outside our office last week and there were some minor issues with having to switch lane. So, obviously everyone cut everyone else off and the entire three days consisted of "beep, beep, beeeeeeeep, beep.." There was literally constant horn blasting going on all day and right into the night too. Absolutely unnecessary and really bloody annoying.

I actually thought I would go completely nuts and it wouldn't happen in Ireland to the same extent at all. People are a lot less aggressive about that kind of thing.

There are plusses and minuses to the majority of Irish drivers' give/take laid back approach to driving.

screamer

What a first world problem. Used to drive that road every day of my life. I tended not to worry about other people's driving habits and concentrated on being a safe and decent driver myself. Lane hogs hardly matter when there's no traffic on the road..........

shietpilot

The N7 actually has its own rules. The left lane is the overtaking lane, the right line is for stop-go fun and the middle lane is for all the boys and lasses doing a "safe driving speed".

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

TheChizler

Drove on the N7 on Tuesday for the first time in years, besides myself there was one other vehicle using the left lane, and this was in rush hour. Was half getting worried wondering did I miss a sign saying not to use it. There must be some evolutionary psychological thing where humans are drawn towards travelling in the middle of whatever passage they're in. Gives better visibility of predators jumping out or something. Any three lane road I know has this problem.

maximum12

In Australia there are regular signs on the motorways stating "Keep left unless overtaking". The lane discipline is reasonably good.

These should be introduced here as the problem is mostly ignorance. Lots of people think if they are doing the speed limit, they are entitled to be in the "fast lane".

Bio Mech

screamer wrote: »

What a first world problem. Used to drive that road every day of my life. I tended not to worry about other people's driving habits and concentrated on being a safe and decent driver myself. Lane hogs hardly matter when there's no traffic on the road..........

Aren`t ya great. Its not a first world problem when stupid driving behaviour, including swerving across 3 lanes for no reason, causes slow downs and crashes.

Injured in a crash on the N7? Sorry, first world problem.

H3llR4iser

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Most of these supposed differences between Irish and "continental" drivers are a myth.

Where did you drive in Europe? The difference is night and day - confirmed by the people who do the transition the opposite way; To a continental driver, Irish roads look like a giant concentration of extremely hesitant learner drivers.

12Phase wrote: »

Well, having driven in France, Belgium, Italy and Germany ... none of those places have much tolerance for any kind of lane hogging.

Practically zero tolerance; Funnily enough however, have a small "misunderstanding" with another driver in one of these countries and it usually resolves with a blow of the horn and an in-language equivalent of "f.. off!"; In Ireland, you'll see overblown hyper-reactions such as extreme gesturing, constant flashing of lights and horn, even full-blown chases to "teach him some!". Baffling.

Training is also appalling - multiple times I have seen driving school cars with student and the instructor inside, hogging the middle lane of dual carriageways (N roads). So there are actually learners being taught not to use the leftmost lane for some inexplicable reason.

screamer

Bio Mech wrote: »

Aren`t ya great..

I am actually 13 years driving it daily and no crashes. Again as I said I pay attention to my driving and whatever cars are nearest me not worrying about lane hogs etc.....

Sh1tbag OToole

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Where did you drive in Europe? The difference is night and day - confirmed by the people who do the transition the opposite way; To a continental driver, Irish roads look like a giant concentration of extremely hesitant learner drivers.



Practically zero tolerance; Funnily enough however, have a small "misunderstanding" with another driver in one of these countries and it usually resolves with a blow of the horn and an in-language equivalent of "f.. off!"; In Ireland, you'll see overblown hyper-reactions such as extreme gesturing, constant flashing of lights and horn, even full-blown chases to "teach him some!". Baffling.

Training is also appalling - multiple times I have seen driving school cars with student and the instructor inside, hogging the middle lane of dual carriageways (N roads). So there are actually learners being taught not to use the leftmost lane for some inexplicable reason.

Holland, France, Italy, Switzerland in the past few months. Usually the motorways are 3 lane so the lane hugger poses less of a problem, except Switzerland but I stuck to the small roads there because I didn't feel like buying the €40 vignette.

The differences I noticed were
-In France there are a fierce amount of people who don't dim on the motorway
-I saw some fierce risky overtaking in Italy on the country roads but the motorways were fairly civilised. There were also a good few very slow drivers. Fiat vans were the worst culprits for speeding
-Dutch drivers are surprisingly relaxed and courteous, a decent amount will salute back if you salute them even though the practice is not as common as back home.

E39MSport

Jebus lads - I come back after 4 years and we're still talking about lane hoggers

Sad indictment of the shocking levels of enforcement and driver apathy in this country.

mickoneill31

Caliden wrote: »

Lack of enforcement is the issue.

It's not the fault of the Gardai either, their numbers are dwindling and they're not recruiting enough. Unless they recruit more quickly there's going to be a shortage when a chunk of them are forced to take retirement.

Some can already retire but are working on. The clock is ticking and there is some serious heel dragging going on.

How much resources are needed? I use the M50 the odd time late at night (around 11pm ish) and it's common (as in you'll see it on 100% of the trips you do at this time). You see people joining the motorway then just drift on over to the outer lane or probably more frequenly, the middle lane, leaving a totally empty inner lane. Is there a fine for this type of offence? Could that not fund the enforcement effort? It'd be like shooting fish in a barrel for the first few weeks at least and then the problem is solved.

It's fairly annoying driving in the left lane with shag all traffic on the motorway and some geezer is sitting in the middle, tootling along, oblivious. According to the rules of the road I've to overtake him on the right.

H3llR4iser

mickoneill31 wrote: »

How much resources are needed? I use the M50 the odd time late at night (around 11pm ish) and it's common (as in you'll see it on 100% of the trips you do at this time). You see people joining the motorway then just drift on over to the outer lane or probably more frequenly, the middle lane, leaving a totally empty inner lane. Is there a fine for this type of offence? Could that not fund the enforcement effort? It'd be like shooting fish in a barrel for the first few weeks at least and then the problem is solved.

It's fairly annoying driving in the left lane with shag all traffic on the motorway and some geezer is sitting in the middle, tootling along, oblivious. According to the rules of the road I've to overtake him on the right.

Again, enforcement could help just to a point. You'd need nearly infinite resources to patrol ALL the dual carriageways in Ireland; The issue is in the information/awareness/education. As I stated already, you see driving school cars hogging the lanes. It means there's a complete and total lack of knowledge even amongst the very people who should be preventing the issues.

H3llR4iser

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Holland, France, Italy, Switzerland in the past few months. Usually the motorways are 3 lane so the lane hugger poses less of a problem, except Switzerland but I stuck to the small roads there because I didn't feel like buying the €40 vignette.

The differences I noticed were
-In France there are a fierce amount of people who don't dim on the motorway
-I saw some fierce risky overtaking in Italy on the country roads but the motorways were fairly civilised. There were also a good few very slow drivers. Fiat vans were the worst culprits for speeding
-Dutch drivers are surprisingly relaxed and courteous, a decent amount will salute back if you salute them even though the practice is not as common as back home.

One wonders what's the definition of "risky overtaking" - not saying that your specific assessment is incorrect, knowing what you're talking about I'd say you're spot on as a matter of fact; But it's another thing that somehow causes a gigantic overreaction on Irish roads. Overtake a car with incoming traffic being 500 meters away, and they invariably start flashing and beeping like crazy - what part of "it'll take another 20 seconds after I rejoined my lane for you to get to this spot" is lost on them, I don't know.

Delivery drivers in Italy are a known public hazard

marno21

Millions being spent at the minute on extending the 3 lanes to J11 with no education planned. A waste of money unless the new capacity is utilized effectively.

ironclaw

marno21 wrote: »

Millions being spent at the minute on extending the 3 lanes to J11 with no education planned. A waste of money unless the new capacity is utilized effectively.

What I particularly love is that the N7 is fed from the M50 northbound by a single lane. Think about that now, a single lane feeds all the traffic that is going to Waterford, Cork and Limerick. It's frightening that it has never been addressed and technically can't be as the Luas is lumped in there. And best of all, it's also the same lane that is needed to merge traffic onto the M50 from the Belgard Rd in less than about 500m.

And, as regards the new bridge, completely undone by the stupid addition of that on-ramp just after the garage. It reduces traffic to a standstill as people can't merge and it's beyond me why it's even there. Why can't it be closed off at rush hour and traffic diverted up to the roundabout at Monastery Rd??? You can get North, South and Long Mile Rd bound from that point, why land traffic into a free flowing national road?

ebbsy

All the improvements won't matter when people keep crashing on the N7.

All we are doing is driving in a straight line.

Mint Sauce

I generally find motorway driving here, quite frustrating and a challenge at times, with people hogging the overtaking lanes at 10-20k under the limit, and then watching for undertakers. I usally come upbehind the hogger, and switch on the right indicater, its generally enough for them to move out of the way.

Was driving in the south of England last month, including the M4 and M25. Four to five lanes each direction in places, 70mph+, unless in a varable limit area, and almost a pleasure compared to here. Yes there was constant overtaking, you had to be constantly on the mirrors, but most people stayed out of lanes 4-5, unless overtaking someone in lanes 3-4. 1-2 generally full as well with people happy to do 50 to 60mph. No hogging or cruising the overtaking lanes, cos you would have got absolutely blasted out of it.

Pinch Flat

Drove to limerick from Dublin yesterday, first time down this neck of the woods in ages, Jesus the lane hogging is desperate. My journey would have been made so much quicker withiut these muppets. Drove from Malaga to Granada a few weeks back - chalk and cheese.

Dartz

Was on the M7/M9 with both windows open and iron maiden blaring at full volume.....

Nobody got in my way.

Those that did, didn't stay there for very long.

Falcon L

I think the OP got it spot on: no pride in their driving. That and an almost total lack of enforcement.

You could educate 'till the cows come home, it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. Once the test is passed all that is has been taught is forgotten.

My story? I've never had a lesson. I taught myself clutch control in my dad's car on our driveway... at 11 years old. I properly drove the car at 12, on Dollymount beach, when you could drive the full length of it. I passed my test at 17 and have taken and passed a few tests since. I have a huge pride in my driving and often despair when others careless driving affects me. I'm very often the only driver indicating off a roundabout. I refuse to lower my driving standard and overtake on the left. Consequently, I often get stuck behind hoggers.

It makes my blood boil when I see that sheite trotted out about lucky-bag licences and people old enough to predate the test. Firstly, the amount of these drivers must be minute at this stage. Secondly, some of the remaining might have more pride in their driving than the people whinging about them.