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Pegida Demonstration in Limerick
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02-06-2016 7:19pm#1
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My experience of Pegida is mostly based on a group of Polish people I know here who support them.
They are out and out xenophobic and islamophobic. I had to listen to a diatribe from one of these guys just last week rantng about Muslim immigrants and refugees flooding into Ireland and taking "our" jobs, houses and social welfare.
"You mean like the Polish did during the Celtic Tiger?" I asked. That shut him up.
The same guys are always spreading Pegida and Britain First memes on Facebook. I guess it is lost on them that A) Ireland is not part of Britain and
The same groups were hating on the Polish before the Muslims
For the record, I don't have a problem with refugees or working immigrants be they Polish or Muslim or whatever.
But I do have a problem with people coming here and stirring up hatred by nefarious means - that being spreading toxic inflammatory stuff on social media or supporting very questionable groups like Pegida and Britain First.
Yes there needs to be a public discussion on immigration but not with groups like Pegida or Identity Ireland.0 -
TonyCliftonEsq wrote: »My experience of Pegida is mostly based on a group of Polish people I know here who support them.
They are out and out xenophobic and islamophobic. I had to listen to a diatribe from one of these guys just last week rantng about Muslim immigrants and refugees flooding into Ireland and taking "our" jobs, houses and social welfare.
"You mean like the Polish did during the Celtic Tiger?" I asked. That shut him up.
The same guys are always spreading Pegida and Britain First memes on Facebook. I guess it is lost on them that A) Ireland is not part of Britain and The same groups were hating on the Polish before the Muslims
For the record, I don't have a problem with refugees or working immigrants be they Polish or Muslim or whatever.
But I do have a problem with people coming here and stirring up hatred by nefarious means - that being spreading toxic inflammatory stuff on social media or supporting very questionable groups like Pegida and Britain First.
Yes there needs to be a public discussion on immigration but not with groups like Pegida or Identity Ireland.
Tony, Germany has just started getting Muslim migrants to work for 1 Euro per hour. It isn't called work though it's termed as ''therapy''. A bit like Job bridge, the employer pays 1 Euro per hour and the government tops the rest up. So why would German employers want any other source of unskilled labour that would cost them more than 1 Euro an hour? If you don't think that will catch on all over Europe then you are seriously mistaken.
There are 6 families coming to my town this month, that's 50 people in total, at first, the next 50 Syrians won't be far behind and they've all only been in the country for 3 months. The Council has specifically bought 6 houses just to accommodate them, despite all of the other Irish people on the Social housing list. Before long, maybe years, but ultimately support for PEGIDA and their ilk will be strong when people grow tired of waiting for things and tired of watching migrants/refugees skip the queue. There's been a serious increase in the number of veiled women and women in Burkhas in Limerick recently and while I don't really have an issue with a headscarf, a veiled face is a very definite statement that the wearer wants nothing to do with their community. So integration is not going to happen with them, they clearly don't want it.0 -
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Tony, Germany has just started getting Muslim migrants to work for 1 Euro per hour. It isn't called work though it's termed as ''therapy''. A bit like Job bridge, the employer pays 1 Euro per hour and the government tops the rest up. So why would German employers want any other source of unskilled labour that would cost them more than 1 Euro an hour? If you don't think that will catch on all over Europe then you are seriously mistaken.
How does that work? Do you have to be a recently arrived Muslim to avail of that? What about the Muslims already living in Germany for generations? Can Catholics or Buddhists apply too? Throw a link my way if you can. Sounds like the issue here though is the German government. Is it fair to blame the migrants here when they have no say as to what the German government or employers agree to?There are 6 families coming to my town this month, that's 50 people in total, at first, the next 50 Syrians won't be far behind and they've all only been in the country for 3 months. The Council has specifically bought 6 houses just to accommodate them, despite all of the other Irish people on the Social housing list. Before long, maybe years, but ultimately support for PEGIDA and their ilk will be strong when people grow tired of waiting for things and tired of watching migrants/refugees skip the queue. There's been a serious increase in the number of veiled women and women in Burkhas in Limerick recently and while I don't really have an issue with a headscarf, a veiled face is a very definite statement that the wearer wants nothing to do with their community. So integration is not going to happen with them, they clearly don't want it.
What town is that out of interest? Yeah the housing thing is a contentious issue alright. Would you say the Syrians would turn down a house the same way some of the Irish have as widely reported recently? I believe one of the excuses was that they would get seasick looking out at a view of a harbour. Mad isn't it?
As for your comment about headscarves and integration. I noticed a fair few students out in UL myself wearing full face veils - in fact it made for an interesting time when the exams came up and they had to check their student ID
From talking to these students in question they were not Syrian. Some were Saudi and others Iraqi. Nice to talk to too, very mannerly. And highly educated, some with Masters and others going for PhD's.
I'm not a fan of the full face veils myself but I am not sure what, if anything, can be done about it. Banning them has caused massive problems in France from what I have heard.
Does anyone worried about Syrians know if the refugees here are actually Muslim. Many of the Syrians that fled the war are from diverse ethnic and religious groups - including those that are Christian, Alawites, Druze, Mandeans, Yazidis etc.
I honestly wouldn't know a Syrian if they stared me in the face. You'd also be surprised as to who is or isn't a Muslim in Limerick. Only last week I was in a bar with someone listening to two lads beside us ranting about Muslims.
The other person with me had to laugh as they went on about how all Muslims are basically walking evil. Being Muslim herself she was going to stroll over to them to ask if they found her to be scary.
It would have been funny to see their faces as a drop dead gorgeous brunette in hotpants holding a beer challenged every assumption they had about Muslims.
Obviously she isn't a practicing one but there are a fair few of them in Limerick and the ones I've met are lovely down to earth people. Should they be thrown out of the country just because they were born in a Muslim country?0 -
TonyCliftonEsq wrote: »How does that work? Do you have to be a recently arrived Muslim to avail of that? What about the Muslims already living in Germany for generations? Can Catholics or Buddhists apply too? Throw a link my way if you can. Sounds like the issue here though is the German government. Is it fair to blame the migrants here when they have no say as to what the German government or employers agree to?
What town is that out of interest? Yeah the housing thing is a contentious issue alright. Would you say the Syrians would turn down a house the same way some of the Irish have as widely reported recently? I believe one of the excuses was that they would get seasick looking out at a view of a harbour. Mad isn't it?
As for your comment about headscarves and integration. I noticed a fair few students out in UL myself wearing full face veils - in fact it made for an interesting time when the exams came up and they had to check their student ID From talking to these students in question they were not Syrian. Some were Saudi and others Iraqi. Nice to talk to too, very mannerly. And highly educated, some with Masters and others going for PhD's.
I'm not a fan of the full face veils myself but I am not sure what, if anything, can be done about it. Banning them has caused massive problems in France from what I have heard.
Does anyone worried about Syrians know if the refugees here are actually Muslim. Many of the Syrians that fled the war are from diverse ethnic and religious groups - including those that are Christian, Alawites, Druze, Mandeans, Yazidis etc.
I honestly wouldn't know a Syrian if they stared me in the face. You'd also be surprised as to who is or isn't a Muslim in Limerick. Only last week I was in a bar with someone listening to two lads beside us ranting about Muslims.
The other person with me had to laugh as they went on about how all Muslims are basically walking evil. Being Muslim herself she was going to stroll over to them to ask if they found her to be scary.
It would have been funny to see their faces as a drop dead gorgeous brunette in hotpants holding a beer challenged every assumption they had about Muslims.
Obviously she isn't a practicing one but there are a fair few of them in Limerick and the ones I've met are lovely down to earth people. Should they be thrown out of the country just because they were born in a Muslim country?
I lived in the UK for years and regularly worked in Bradford and Leeds so I know the reality of what Islam brings with it. The ones you're talking about aren't from the arse end of the Mid East and aren't what you're used to. What we're going to get with the Muslims is entirely different from what we've had with other migrants and it won't be pretty.0 -
I believe Ireland has agreed to accepting 4000 Syrian refugees by 2017. Who will be settled across the country. Whose religious make-up is unknown but likely to be predominantly Muslim.
I don't think that is comparable with the millions of Muslims in the UK to be fair 0 -
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I certainly don't feel comfortable walking up to a veiled woman and starting a conversation. Is the that the point? I had a little google and found this:There's been a serious increase in the number of veiled women and women in Burkhas in Limerick recently and while I don't really have an issue with a headscarf, a veiled face is a very definite statement that the wearer wants nothing to do with their community. So integration is not going to happen with them, they clearly don't want it.Yes! Kuffar hate niqab! Why!? Because they can't lustfully look at our women like shaytan and their filthy souls want!
A lot of people seem to think this. I reckon it's got more to do with how the media portray them than what they are actually saying.Pegida dont seem like a very nice bunch of people and put their views forward in an ineloquent way that gains them no support from people who may sympathise with some of their views.I do think its unfortunate that anyone going against the grain and saying that they have concerns about immigrants/refugees coming to our country are shouted down. All sides should be heard.
I consider myself liberal and a leftie but i do have concerns about culture clashes that may arise with a higher influx of immigrants/refugees/asylum seekers (regardless of where they are from). I consider myself a kind person and i have no issue with people who come here to work or those seeking refuge who are willing to integrate AND respect our culture/way of life here.
I think the bleeding hearts who wont hear a bad word about immigration need to wake up. Its not like everyone who comes to Ireland as an immigrant or refugee is a bad person but by the same token they are not all good either.
Even if your assumption that Pegida are too extreme is true where is the more moderate political voice?
They are trying to give them something to do. Over 1 million arrived last year in Germany. They are trying to cope.TonyCliftonEsq wrote: »How does that work? Do you have to be a recently arrived Muslim to avail of that? What about the Muslims already living in Germany for generations? Can Catholics or Buddhists apply too? Throw a link my way if you can. Sounds like the issue here though is the German government. Is it fair to blame the migrants here when they have no say as to what the German government or employers agree to?
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What exactly are you saying? That they deserve it more because they'd be more appreciative?TonyCliftonEsq wrote: »What town is that out of interest? Yeah the housing thing is a contentious issue alright. Would you say the Syrians would turn down a house the same way some of the Irish have as widely reported recently? I believe one of the excuses was that they would get seasick looking out at a view of a harbour. Mad isn't it?
What has that got to do with the veil?TonyCliftonEsq wrote: »As for your comment about headscarves and integration. I noticed a fair few students out in UL myself wearing full face veils - in fact it made for an interesting time when the exams came up and they had to check their student ID From talking to these students in question they were not Syrian. Some were Saudi and others Iraqi. Nice to talk to too, very mannerly. And highly educated, some with Masters and others going for PhD's.
Generally it is the more extreme followers of Islam that wear the Niqab. The same people who practise female genital mutilation. It's not even in the Koran, it's about possessive men oppressing women.TonyCliftonEsq wrote: »I'm not a fan of the full face veils myself but I am not sure what, if anything, can be done about it. Banning them has caused massive problems in France from what I have heard.
Those groups don't go to refugee camps as they are too dangerous for them.TonyCliftonEsq wrote: »Does anyone worried about Syrians know if the refugees here are actually Muslim. Many of the Syrians that fled the war are from diverse ethnic and religious groups - including those that are Christian, Alawites, Druze, Mandeans, Yazidis etc.
She would be stoned to death in a Muslim country.TonyCliftonEsq wrote: »I honestly wouldn't know a Syrian if they stared me in the face. You'd also be surprised as to who is or isn't a Muslim in Limerick. Only last week I was in a bar with someone listening to two lads beside us ranting about Muslims.
The other person with me had to laugh as they went on about how all Muslims are basically walking evil. Being Muslim herself she was going to stroll over to them to ask if they found her to be scary.
It would have been funny to see their faces as a drop dead gorgeous brunette in hotpants holding a beer challenged every assumption they had about Muslims.
Obviously she isn't a practicing one but there are a fair few of them in Limerick and the ones I've met are lovely down to earth people. Should they be thrown out of the country just because they were born in a Muslim country?
What about burying your head in the sand and denying reality? That's ignorance. COGNITIVE DISSONANCE look it up.TonyCliftonEsq wrote: »Pegida preys on ignorance and fear and directs that towards refugees.
The real issue is our own laws and government and how they intend on integrating people of all backgrounds into Irish life.
But empty vessals make the most noise and in short - "Dey tuk our jerbs!"
Pegida can come and make a show of themselves if they want, I'd love if people just laughed in their face though.
It's not about jobs. It's about the fact that there are literally millions piling into Europe unchecked. We do not know who they are. Some are definitely terrorists.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-arrests-3-syrians-over-terror-attack-plot-on-busy-dusseldorf-street-1464872522
Pegida are against the Islamisation of the west. Muslims are very much for it. Have a read of this thread. It's about whether Sharia should be forced on non Muslims.
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?471410-Should-non-muslims-be-subject-to-Sharia-Law
A quick browse of that forum will give you an idea of the kinds of people we are inviting in. Some are most definitely mentally ill.
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?469501-Demon-devil-in-prayer-mat-musallah0 -
TonyCliftonEsq wrote: »I believe Ireland has agreed to accepting 4000 Syrian refugees by 2017. Who will be settled across the country. Whose religious make-up is unknown but likely to be predominantly Muslim.
I don't think that is comparable with the millions of Muslims in the UK to be fair
Our government has agreed to take 4000 + reunification, which means potentially 20,000 plus. That's just the tip of the iceberg and was based on the current numbers of Muslim migrants in Europe last year, that number has significantly increased already this year, along with the fact that hundreds of thousands of young male Africans are trying to make it from Libya to Italy, we'll then be expected to accept them.
Initially we were told a few hundred Syrians would be coming here, then a few thousand, then 4000 then that there is no upper limit. We were told that they would be Syrians and that they would be coming from UN camps in Jordan and Lebanon and that they would be well-screened to make sure that there wouldn't be any terrorists among them.
That changed to migrants who'd illegally made it to Italy and Greece and who only had brief interviews with a garda and a check to make sure they didn't have a criminal record, sure how would there be a criminal record when no system exists to show if they've been arrested in their country of origin, if they're even coming from that country or if they're even who they claim to be? They aren't even all Syrians, in fact Syrians are in a minority of migrants, most are Afghans and Pakistanis, followed closely by North Africans. Given Enda's got previous for licking Merkel's arse you can be damned sure he'll take as many as she wants him to and we've no legal obligation to take any.
We're spending 640 million in Foreign Aid this year alone, an increase on last years FA spending, along with 25 million we've given to Syrian refugees, 25 million we've contributed to the 3 billion euro bribe to Erdogan and we've got a flotilla of naval vessels in the Med providing a floating taxi service. All the while services for Irish people are being cut and we're being told the government can't afford to provide those services, yes they can, by stop spending that money abroad. Lets also not forget the 5000 asylum seekers who are in the system already, making repeated asylum appeals and which have already cost us 30 million in legal fees.0 -
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Well hopefully it goes ahead. Even if I disagree with what is being said, they have a right to protest and have their voices heard.
The core of the issue is what governments in Europe and especially major European leaders are doing with regards to this issue that should be talked about the most - their failure to manage this correctly as well as their condescending attitude towards people who have concerns about the level of immigrants and the fact that they are not being processed is also something that has allowed for Pegida to grow. By 2017 Germans could end up having to pay €50 billion for this [1].
Are people on the right manipulating this for their own gains? Of course they are, yet if European leaders don't face up to this and those on the left that bury their heads in the sand rather than face the uncomfortable truths surrounding the immigrants who come to Europe, then ordinary people will be left with little choice but to turn to the right and hope for the best.
However when people who attend these protests are being labeled Nazis then it only further fans the flames already, yet ironically there have been several Pegida marches where people have waved the Israeli flag [2]. This doesn't bode well for the claim that the group is facist does it? Plus Muslims in Germany have been less than subtle about how they view Jews, the Nazis and Adolf Hitler
As for being labelled racist, it is important to recognise that those who are doing the labelling would be the far left and the "unite against facism" crowd. A group which calls people facist for raising awareness of actual facism in the form of radical Islam. So no, there should be no one that should be worried about being labelled racist/facist etc...
Hopefully we won't see a repeat of the scenes in Dublin where "anti-racist" groups were protesting against those from Pegida.
After reading what Niall Collins had to say on Pegida coming to Limerick, it is even more important that they do come and have their voices heard. Collins stating that "Indeed many Irish people who have emigrated down though the years would fall foul of the anti-immigration policies that Pegida espouse,” What the group "espouse" is for- "The acceptance of asylum seekers from war zones" they see it as a "human duty".
- Oppose hate preachers no matter the religion that they belong to.
- Wants an increase in the amount of social workers that are assigned to asylum seekers.
- Advocates for torture victims to taken out of refugee centres that are of poor quality and housed appropriately.
It's hard to believe how Irish people would "fall foul" of such policy positions. What Collins (and Willie O'Dea who also had something to say on it) are doing here is nothing more than virtue signalling.
Is Pegida perfect? Nope, they attract elements of society that no decent person would want to be associated with, yet they are a start to trying to resolve the immigration crisis of which is something that everyone can agree needs to be resolved. Pegida's positions are not radical. Acknowledging these issues and solving the problems that arise from them will work towards diminishing the influence of the far-right in Europe. For as it stands they are the only ones who appear to be addressing this and that is a depressing thought.
[1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12135244/Migrant-crisis-to-cost-Germany-50-billion-by-2017.html
[2] http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/member-carrying-israeli-flag-pegida-munich-blocked-for-the-news-photo/4978432760 - "The acceptance of asylum seekers from war zones" they see it as a "human duty".
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